TMNT Macro-Series: Leonardo Preview and Discussion

Originally Posted by Cloudrunner

I think both Koya and Bludgeon had decent character building during Karai's mini, but I still don't care that much about them. I think maybe they just need more interaction with the turtles and other characters to cement themselves. Hopefully we can see more of that in the coming arc. Though I hope they do a better job fleshing them out than they did Alopex, who gets occasional spurts of development before being completely forgotten about (even during plot points she would legitimately be invested in *cough* pantheon *cough*).

Funnily enough, I was just reading through TMNTEntity's older reviews and one thing caught my attention- Bludgeon has been in the story since #37. Koya was introduced even before that, way back in #25, though the first time she appeared as a mutant was in #29. That was almost 50 issues ago. Honestly, people make fun of the Pantheon for being such a slow burner but this is on a whole other level (although there's obviously a difference between main antagonists and side characters like them). Of all the characters that've been around for this long, they've the least fleshed out personality/have done the least.

[CyberCubed]

Koya has gotten some very good characterisation I'd say, she's pretty well developed. Bludgeon is more or less there as her companion, and Ocho we literally were just introduced to the prior time he appeared, so...

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Koya has gotten some very good characterisation I'd say, she's pretty well developed. Bludgeon is more or less there as her companion, and Ocho we literally were just introduced to the prior time he appeared, so...

I'd argue otherwise but honestly I literally for the life of me couldn't remember Karai's Path if you held me at gunpoint. Like, I literally didn't remember who Ocho was until someone reminded me. And I'm not saying this to mock the issue, it's genuinely just a blank spot in my brain.

[Utrommaniac]

They still haven't fixed the barn !

It was a nice issue though. It was good to get Leo centered and get Koya to get off her eternal "I hate Leonardo" schtic - it had been there long before Leo cut her wings. I'm especially happy that she seemed to take his apology.


But...

Does this mean Leo's going to have a cool scar under his mask???

[neatoman]

So I really enjoyed the paneling and the artwork in this one. It was really nice to read.

The only sort of con is that the plot can be summed up like this:
Karai: I'm here to take back the Foot clan!
Leo:... Good, I don't want it and I don't want my dad running it.
Karai: Oh... OK then. Bye.

It's strangely lacking in conflict. Or at least conflict Leo can't be bothered with. Even the fight with Koya ends because Leo just didn't give a ****.

[Sophie Campbell]

Originally Posted by Utrommaniac

They still haven't fixed the barn !

Does this mean Leo's going to have a cool scar under his mask???

I ALMOST had a panel of the Turtles fixing the barn in the montage page toward the end but I decided not to do it, haha.

I've been trying to get them to let me give Leo a permanent scar for years now!!

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I loved this. I love how Sophie kept turning expectations on their heads--no huge fight, words over war, Leo finding a better way that brute force...

THAT was an amazing Leonardo tale, an amazing TMNT tale, and a very promising step towards the next big event! It felt Mirage, even... where it was about something more than the action.

Congrats, Sophie. I think you wrote my favorite IDW TMNT issue to date!

But Leo's a naive nellie if he thinks Splinter is just gonna retire with his Foot pension and gold watch. But it's perfectly in character and works. WE know it won't, but Leo does have enough reason to expect Splinter to make the smart choice.

...

Except Splinter aligned with Bishop 10 issues back. So maaaaaaaaaaaybe Leo's even more naive and dumb than I thought.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Except Splinter aligned with Bishop 10 issues back. So maaaaaaaaaaaybe Leo's even more naive and dumb than I thought.

I wonder how Splinter would react if he could see the real Bishop... He'd probably offer him fishsticks instead of fries, much healthier for a growing body.

[daggio]

Where this story takes place in the timeline is hard to figure out for me. Yes, I realize it's been said that this is probably meant to take place after "Battle Lines", but if it does it seems it has to take place much later. I know it would have been a spoiler if Slash had been mentioned, but I would've tended to believe that they were taking a break cuz of what had happened to him, but no mention of that. They mention needing a break from Splinter and the Foot Clan. If this does take place after "Battle Lines" then it would probably have to take place immediately prior to #90 or #91 (pure speculation on my end). Whenever Karai shows up in the ongoing again (90 or 91), we'll have to see if the events of this Macro are mentioned. If this takes place before "Battle Lines", maybe it takes place during "Bebop & Rocksteady Hit the Road" since we saw what happened in the epilogue.

[Wentos]

This issue was superb. The best single issue of the IDW run since issue 50 of the main series. Sophie's work (her writing AND her art!) has never been better.

I honestly can't think of anything else to say other than MORE PLEASE!

[Utrommaniac]

Originally Posted by Sophie Campbell

I ALMOST had a panel of the Turtles fixing the barn in the montage page toward the end but I decided not to do it, haha.

I've been trying to get them to let me give Leo a permanent scar for years now!!

All things considered though, at least in my experience spending a summer in Ohio, people these days don't tend to fix their barns if they're not being truly used, so it does make some sense.


Great that it finally happened though. And with pretty good timing story-wise.
I do wonder though, for an illustration perspective, why these scars always seem to be on the right eye. Between Saki and Ch'rell (who has the biggest scar of the lot, in what I'm going to assume was a really big traumatic blow), and now Leo, all of them have scars on the right eye.

Hob doesn't count as having an eye scar, since he doesn't have an eye there at all anymore.

[DrReagan]

Okay but like, I was shipping Karai and, god I can't remember her name, back during Karai's Path, but I didn't actually think it would ever happen, and maybe it still won't, but OH MY GOD, do you all see Karai taking her hand when they were walking away from the turtles????

Like she has her hand in her own, she took her hand! There is absolutely no point to that unless my ship has somehow come true!

Oh PLEASE actually be giving me my long dreamed of gay Karai IDW, Please, PLEASE

I re-read the issue and then read through my comment on it again and honestly, I was probably originally too critical of it. Most of my criticism still does stand, some of the art is not my cup of tea, the mystic stuff was utilized in a pretty meh way, the main conflict wasn't all that engaging and Leo's characterization was pretty bad. But, honestly, looking back at it all, I was probably too nitpicky on some aspects. Why'd I rip into this particular issue while just ignoring the problems with other issues of TMNT? Might be because the other Macros set the bar so high, but I'm not entirely sure, honestly.

I apologize for making this all sound like some blog post or whatever but I did feel like a dick for ripping into it so much.

[Rooish]

Originally Posted by DrReagan

Okay but like, I was shipping Karai and, god I can't remember her name, back during Karai's Path, but I didn't actually think it would ever happen, and maybe it still won't, but OH MY GOD, do you all see Karai taking her hand when they were walking away from the turtles????

Like she has her hand in her own, she took her hand! There is absolutely no point to that unless my ship has somehow come true!

Oh PLEASE actually be giving me my long dreamed of gay Karai IDW, Please, PLEASE

Yes I did notice that, and I was super confused and thought I had totally forgotten something about Karai’s path. But yeah, cool. Until that point I thought we were getting hints at a Leo-Karai tension, so I’d prefer this.

The art was amazing, I like that it was somewhat less cutesy than Campbell’s previous stuff, and I liked the colouring too except he Nick eye colours. I wish we could see this combo in the ongoing for an arc.

The writing could have used another draft or two. I agree there was not much conflict and that potential conflict with Karai and Koya was wrapped up way too easily—especially Koya!

And this is not Campbell’s fault, but I barely care about Karai, let alone her mutants, as they have hardly appeared in the ongoing in 50 issues.

However, it’s the first time I’ve felt hope that Splinter can come back to the side of good in a long time. And here I was kind of hoping he’d die. Of course he probably will, in 100, the minute he goes back to the Turtles.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by DrReagan

Okay but like, I was shipping Karai and, god I can't remember her name, back during Karai's Path, but I didn't actually think it would ever happen, and maybe it still won't, but OH MY GOD, do you all see Karai taking her hand when they were walking away from the turtles????

Like she has her hand in her own, she took her hand! There is absolutely no point to that unless my ship has somehow come true!

Oh PLEASE actually be giving me my long dreamed of gay Karai IDW, Please, PLEASE

I did notice that! And also, maybe it's just my imagination, but there seemed to be something going on between Leo and Koya at the end there...

Originally Posted by Rooish

Yes I did notice that, and I was super confused and thought I had totally forgotten something about Karai’s path. But yeah, cool. Until that point I thought we were getting hints at a Leo-Karai tension, so I’d prefer this.

The art was amazing, I like that it was somewhat less cutesy than Campbell’s previous stuff, and I liked the colouring too except he Nick eye colours. I wish we could see this combo in the ongoing for an arc.

The writing could have used another draft or two. I agree there was not much conflict and that potential conflict with Karai and Koya was wrapped up way too easily—especially Koya!

And this is not Campbell’s fault, but I barely care about Karai, let alone her mutants, as they have hardly appeared in the ongoing in 50 issues.

However, it’s the first time I’ve felt hope that Splinter can come back to the side of good in a long time. And here I was kind of hoping he’d die. Of course he probably will, in 100, the minute he goes back to the Turtles.

At this point, I'd reckon he'll actually die in like, #96 maybe. Right after coming back to the turtles, as you suggested. At this point, there doesn't seem to be much REALLY driving the conflict between the ole' Foot gang and the Turtles. If they were to kill Splinter just as he came back to his senses, however...

[Sophie Campbell]

Thanks so much, you guys!

Good to see some of you noticing things I snuck into this issue.

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

I loved this. I love how Sophie kept turning expectations on their heads--no huge fight, words over war, Leo finding a better way that brute force...

THAT was an amazing Leonardo tale, an amazing TMNT tale, and a very promising step towards the next big event! It felt Mirage, even... where it was about something more than the action.

Congrats, Sophie. I think you wrote my favorite IDW TMNT issue to date!

Thank you SO much, Cylon, that means a lot!! I had a blast working on it and getting to do some Mirage-y type stuff finally.

[Sophie Campbell]

Originally Posted by Utrommaniac

Great that it finally happened though. And with pretty good timing story-wise.
I do wonder though, for an illustration perspective, why these scars always seem to be on the right eye. Between Saki and Ch'rell (who has the biggest scar of the lot, in what I'm going to assume was a really big traumatic blow), and now Leo, all of them have scars on the right eye.

Oh, I don't know if the scar will actually be permanent, that depends entirely on the powers-that-be and the other artists working on the series. But I left the door open!!

That's an interesting note about right eye scars, I never noticed! The main reason I did a right eye cut in this case is because of how the sequence was laid out: I wanted the characters pointing to the right because that's the direction the page is read, so Leo's right eye would have to be facing the viewer so that's the eye I slashed up for clarity's and storytelling's sake. If I'd picked the left eye you wouldn't have been able to see it in the profile shots. And now that you've brought it up, I really like Leo and Saki having a cut on the same eye.

[martinitolove]

Now we get a hint at Karai beeing lesbian, as in the 2012 show. It's fine by me, but how male, boring and ugly Natsu is! Compare her to Shinigami - a phantastic, beautiful and feminine character! I love Karai and hope she'll find a worthy partner

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

1. Natsu (was that her name?), Ocho, and Bludgeon don't even talk, or say a single line. Even when they're all standing next to each other. Am I correct in saying this is the first time Natsu and Ocho have ever met the Turtles, and vice versa? Like..they don't even know who they are. Really strange Natsu didn't get a single line of dialogue.

2. Koya being bloodthirsty to take revenge on Leonardo, to backing down so quickly, felt kinda rushed. Also remember there was a back-up in Universe showing Koya seemingly go more insane with her lust to take revenge on Leonardo, and this didn't really seem to pick up from that plot point as well as it could have.

3. Karai was also a lot more friendly with the Turtles than she should of been, considering the last time they met was issue 50, where Splinter killed Shredder and Karai just seemingly split after Splinter asked if they could be allies. I mean have people forgotten Karai has not been in the main ongoing since issue 50? Her interactions with the Turtles seem far too friendly from their previous encounter, like there was some middle story arc we missed or something.

These are my issues with the story as well.

[Rooish]

Originally Posted by martinitolove

Now we get a hint at Karai beeing lesbian, as in the 2012 show. It's fine by me, but how male, boring and ugly Natsu is! Compare her to Shinigami - a phantastic, beautiful and feminine character! I love Karai and hope she'll find a worthy partner

These are my issues with the story as well.

Yikes. You recognize not every woman wants to present as “feminine”, right? I don’t think Natsu is “ugly” or “male”, she just has a shaved head! Assuming Natsu identifies as a woman, I have always appreciated the variety in Campbell’s art of women, showing people who may be fatter or curvier, or less “feminine”, but still are women, too.

Also I’m pretty sure 2012 couldn’t say Karai was a lesbian, although I did totes ship her and Shinigami.