New CGI movie

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Chris

Personally if I was doing an OT follow up (loose continuity or not) I'd go the MOTU Revelation root and do a series aimed more at adults who grew up with the show. I guess the logic here would be that the OT was the biggest era for TMNT so an update of that aimed at kids might be the best way to get a new audience whilst parents are brought in by making it a "sequel" to what they grew up with. Must admit it would have me far more interested than another 2014 or Rise style reboot would have if this does turn out to be the case.

Yeah, but as MOTU Revelation proved, you do that and then you get people screaming about how it's "terrible" because it's not as light, fluffy and one-dimensional as the original show was.

But as I've oft-argued in defense of Revelation, if you DO try and do a show/movie/etc. that's 1:1 with the original, you'd get the ten to twenty people who remain in romantic love with that older version without irony to love it, and everyone else would think it was the dumbest thing ever that nobody thought to aim higher 30+ years later.

Sometimes, you really just can't win. Try and raise the stakes a bit, you get chastised for "ruining the innocence" of the original. Stick 1:1 with the original aesthetic, you get chastised for being out of touch and not having any new ideas.

To be blunt, this is why inevitably, companies just give up trying to reboot things altogether and stick them on a shelf. Popeye, Flash Gordon, The Shadow... all once super-popular, probably more popular in their day than TMNT ever was, accounting for different eras and standards of success... all now completely irrelevant because after any number of failed reboots, their handlers just decided it was too hard trying to force-feed them to an audience which no longer cared.

TMNT is going to be on the shelf right next to them much sooner rather than later. Kinda sad, but it's the natural order of things. Watching them flounder aimlessly in the meantime is pretty painful to watch.

[Wildcat]

Ok I have not seen FW in its entirety since I guess I was kid. I honestly do not remember how it ended.

I don’t have all the DVDs. Just to season 4. I should probably get them but thought it’d get Blu Rays or a Special Edition by now. Seems the whole series is on YouTube so I’d like to watch it in case it’s removed. At least the final season.

Anyway it’s a solid cartoon even though some stuff is silly. By the time it ended it was pretty well rounded from what I can tell. It’s not nostalgia goggles either. I have not seen it years and I don’t remember half of it, like at all.

I’m sure some kind of follow up can be made that old and new fans can appreciate. TMNT already appeals to kids. I’m sure it would be portrayed so anyone can watch it and not need 10 seasons to understand it.

A lot of the FW elements were in the 2012 cartoon so newer fans are familiar with it and where it comes from. I’ve never seen Transformers G1 but I understand the history.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Wildcat

Ok I have not seen FW in its entirety since I guess I was kid. I honestly do not remember how it ended.

They use Krang's body to banish Dregg and Splinter declares them to the fully trained. That's the ending in a nutshell.

Originally Posted by Wildcat

I don’t have all the DVDs. Just to season 4. I should probably get them but thought it’d get Blu Rays or a Special Edition by now. Seems the whole series is on YouTube so I’d like to watch it in case it’s removed. At least the final season.

The show had very poor quality control. An HD remaster would only make the show look or sound better in the technical sense of being more crisp. On Blu-Ray it would still be obvious that the frame-rate is choppy, that Mikey gets duplicated in one episode because of a layer issue, that characters sometimes talk with the wrong voice, etc. The short answer is that remastering it would be a waste.

Originally Posted by Wildcat

Anyway it’s a solid cartoon even though some stuff is silly. By the time it ended it was pretty well rounded from what I can tell. It’s not nostalgia goggles either. I have not seen it years and I don’t remember half of it, like at all.

It was not a "solid" cartoon. Aside from the production errors, the show tended to suffer from having really bad scripts with really bad plots. Episodes were often concluded with some deus ex crap, forgot to explain key details or contained pointless filler.

And I know this might be a bit controversial to say but the humor in this show sucks too. It isn't even remotely funny. If it isn't some lame crap a pizza having weird topings, it's probably some really toothless snark or some random nonsense that comes out of nowhere.

Originally Posted by Wildcat

I’m sure some kind of follow up can be made that old and new fans can appreciate. TMNT already appeals to kids. I’m sure it would be portrayed so anyone can watch it and not need 10 seasons to understand it.

Technically but even bother? Just go back to Mirage and make something new if you want to make something that appeals to an older audience. It's not like anyone actually remembers the 1987 cartoon accurately from when they were kids.

Originally Posted by Wildcat

A lot of the FW elements were in the 2012 cartoon so newer fans are familiar with it and where it comes from. I’ve never seen Transformers G1 but I understand the history.

It pays lip service to those elements by using names and/or basic character designs, in all honesty there is barely even a connection, it's just there to trick you into thinking your nostalgia is being appealed to. Technically speaking it is true that both shows happen to have a character named Irma who is April's buddy, but even before this character was revealed to be an Utrom in disguise when it came to the new show, it was pretty clear that all they took from the old character was a name and not much else. The same goes for Mutagen Man, Rahzar, Tokka, Merdude, Dregg, Mona Lisa, The Punk Frogs, Wingnut, Slash and a few others.

And while we're on the subject, while people like to act as if the show was all "Muck Man, Mondo Gecko, Chrome Dome, all my faves galore!" and those characters are the ones to show up outside of the show, the truth is that when the Turtles weren't dealing with some random Shredder scheme, it was some random mad scientist or some other character that were never in anything else.

As awkward as this might be to admit, people are not really nostalgic for the show itself because they barely remember and don't care what the show was actually like, they are more nostalgic for the toyline the show was intended to market. That might be a little bit sad to think about but that really seems to be the case.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Originally Posted by Leo656

The problem with relying on FW as the benchmark is that it WAS super-successful... with kids. Kids in 1988. That has practically NO relevance to what would be successful NOW. People who are 6-10 years old in 2021 give less than zero f*cks what their parents liked when they were their age. And there simply aren't enough 40-year olds with a strong nostalgic passion for FW TMNT to pack a theater anymore.

The immediate problem becomes, as we've all heard countless times, "you can't serve two masters" to begin with. You have to decide who you're trying to please and commit to that. But they've been very hesitant to do that, thus far, and every time one of the people up top speaks, they go back and forth about who they're really aiming for with This or That reboot. They're either trying to "grow the audience by attracting new kids" or "giving the old-school fans what they want", depending on the day. And frankly, you can't do both at the same time. It generally doesn't work. It's worked very, very, very rarely, like the more recent MLP reboots, but even then, that's only because the originals were so bad that the franchise had nowhere to go but up. So you really can't compare something like that to something like TMNT which actually had a ton of success and popularity way back when.

Part of the reason why I lean towards the 1990 movie so much as an example of what they ought to try and lean into, is because that's the only example where TMNT ever achieved any sort of TRUE mainstream success, not just with young children. To this day, whenever I show that movie to someone who never saw it, or who thought TMNT was nothing but "stupid kids' stuff", it never fails to mesmerize them. "Holy sh*t, that's actually a 'real' movie!" It was the same back in 1990, when millions of grown-ups who only tolerated the FW cartoon show because their kids were obsessed with it, were legitimately captivated by the live-action film. Otherwise there's no way it would have become the most successful independent movie ever made, nor kept that title for years upon years. If the movie had been like the show was - something parents smiled through gritted teeth at just because their kids were so in love with it - then it absolutely would not have done so well. As evidence of that, we have the sequels, which were loved by children but had MUCH less cross-over appeal with adults and non-fans.

To my way of thinking, that means the 1990 film was the franchise's true peak, because it proved conclusively that TMNT did not need to just be goofy stuff aimed at 6-year olds, that if handled well it could also enrapture their parents, or even win over non-fans. Simply put, NO other iteration of TMNT has ever managed to do that. And thus, if they're sincerely trying to make a movie that both kids and adults in 2021 will enjoy, then their best bet should probably be to go back to the ONLY time that they ever managed to pull that trick successfully. Trying to stick to the blueprint of a cartoon show that was a huge hit with people who were 8 over 30 years ago is questionable if you're sincerely trying to reach a large number of people. Put simply, there's no proof it can even be done.

Pretty much. A version of an IP that was popular back then isn't as popular now. Adam West was what the public thought of Batman before the Keaton film changed the perception of the character. The recent Power Rangers film was based on MMPR (the one that introduced the world to PR and the one people remember the most) and sadly it didn't do well in box office. PR now is more than just MMRP with how many versions there are now. And when people think of MLP they now see FiM, not the 80s show.

I mentioned this in another thread but I've met people born between 94 to 99 that grew up with the 90s movies and not FW. The 90s movies (at least the first two) are now just as popular if not more than FW.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Yeah, but as MOTU Revelation proved, you do that and then you get people screaming about how it's "terrible" because it's not as light, fluffy and one-dimensional as the original show was.

But as I've oft-argued in defense of Revelation, if you DO try and do a show/movie/etc. that's 1:1 with the original, you'd get the ten to twenty people who remain in romantic love with that older version without irony to love it, and everyone else would think it was the dumbest thing ever that nobody thought to aim higher 30+ years later.

Sometimes, you really just can't win. Try and raise the stakes a bit, you get chastised for "ruining the innocence" of the original. Stick 1:1 with the original aesthetic, you get chastised for being out of touch and not having any new ideas.

I don't disagree with any of this (and agree with you that the first movie is the sweet spot they should really be aiming for rather than FW).

I do think that if they go in this direction it will avoid the worst of the Revelation backlash as you won't have the whole "it's about Teela" thing. They'll probably do something similar to the 2007 movie and say April has been training so she can be a more active character, but the focus would be clearly on the turtles (and they don't have to worry about Netflix splitting the story in half either).

That said, I think it will be guilty of not raising the stakes, since it will be aimed more at kids. Which will also be the studio response to any adult fans' criticism. So less backlash, but also less point in doing it in the first place. Like you say, damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Let's be honest, if they do a FW "sequel" aimed at kids it's essentially being made for a new kids but with a nostalgia wrapper to loosely appeal to their parents. If we get something that all ages can truly enjoy (like the best Disney and Pixar stuff), that manages to hit the nostalgia button whilst offering something new I will be genuinely amazed. But, since they seem determined to avoid doing anything aimed at adults or drawing from Mirage, it's still a better idea than what they tried with 2014 and Rise.

[Wildcat]

@ neatoman, well I know certain things about the show were silly like running gags and Shredders schemes. I’m sure there was a lot of filler and repetitive episodes based on how long it ran.

From the seasons I do have I don’t think it was as dumb as people make it out now. I think it was a solid action cartoon.

I did not expect a remaster to fix technical errors like the ones you mentioned. I’d just like it in HD with bonus content if possible.

The 2012 cartoon did more than just rename characters imo. I’ll agree on Irma but a lot of the FW elements were duplicated only with some differences or update. I think they did a good job working them.

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by Leo656

But they did manage to please "everybody", exactly One Time, and they made a lot of money with it. One would think that, in a situation where all other attempts have failed, they'd look at what went right that One Time and study THAT blueprint instead.

Because, it was just one single movie, when TV series lasted for 10 seasons, had enormous merchandise machine build around, including few very successful video games. This is what most people remember when it comes to TMNT, even those who wasn't around in 1980s 90s.

So they base new TMNT shows around what they believe is the most popular. As for the movie, like Mirage comic books, it is mostly remembered by people who KNOW TMNT beyond TV series this days.

Originally Posted by neatoman

And I know this might be a bit controversial to say but the humor in this show sucks too. It isn't even remotely funny. If it isn't some lame crap a pizza having weird topings, it's probably some really toothless snark or some random nonsense that comes out of nowhere.

Nah, it was good for what it was.
I still find it more fun than burp jokes surrounding Mike from beginning of 2k3 or...majority of a humor from 2k12 series for that matter.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Sometimes, you really just can't win. Try and raise the stakes a bit, you get chastised for "ruining the innocence" of the original.

I've read a couple of fanfics adapting Revelation and tweaking it more with the heart of the original MOTU and it really works. They don't forget the stakes but the characters aren't undermined nor unlikeable.

[Leo656]

You and I just probably have vastly different opinions on what makes a protagonist "unlikeable", my brother.

I mean, my favorite movie(s) of all time is Young Guns (Part II automatically should be included in any conversation by default because it's less a "sequel" and more an organic continuation). That Billy the Kid was a bad egg! I mean yeah, he had boatloads of charisma - which is unavoidable when played by the incomparable Emilio Estevez! - but he was incredibly selfish, self-serving, narcissistic, and got ALL of his friends killed because of that.

You root for him because the "law" is corrupt and the "good guys" are even worse than he is, and because he's got those dimples and that incredibly charming laugh/cackle thing he does... but he's still just a real asshole, indisputably.

People are complicated. Characters, also, can be complicated. To me, it doesn't make them altogether unlikeable, depending. But of course, personal mileage can and will vary on such things. I'm just sayin'.

[TylerD]

Originally Posted by Wildcat

Ok I have not seen FW in its entirety since I guess I was kid. I honestly do not remember how it ended.

I don’t have all the DVDs. Just to season 4. I should probably get them but thought it’d get Blu Rays or a Special Edition by now. Seems the whole series is on YouTube so I’d like to watch it in case it’s removed. At least the final season.

Anyway it’s a solid cartoon even though some stuff is silly. By the time it ended it was pretty well rounded from what I can tell. It’s not nostalgia goggles either. I have not seen it years and I don’t remember half of it, like at all.

I’m sure some kind of follow up can be made that old and new fans can appreciate. TMNT already appeals to kids. I’m sure it would be portrayed so anyone can watch it and not need 10 seasons to understand it.

A lot of the FW elements were in the 2012 cartoon so newer fans are familiar with it and where it comes from. I’ve never seen Transformers G1 but I understand the history.

I have seen them all recently as I have all the DVD's, and I would be fine if they kind of wrapped the entire series into a new movie...... however leave out the final two seasons of the Red Sky episodes which were season 9 and 10 (I believe) that is when the season and show started going down the toilet for me.... They changed it and made it more dark which I was totally in favour of, but I just couldn't get on board with the new characters.

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by TylerD

They changed it and made it more dark which I was totally in favour of, but I just couldn't get on board with the new characters.

RSS had a lot of weak elements, but new characters were one of its main weakness.

Interestingly they did a fine job with upgrading Shredder and Krang into real threats, even Rat King received cool makeover and then...they just threw them away. And then they did the same with Titan, Krakus, Carter, everyone except Dregg who was boring as ****.

RSS was like a collection of wrong choices wrapped into 3 seasons.

[Slash-Dash]

Originally Posted by oldmanwinters

Looks like VarnerStudios will have involvement, likely in the toy sculpting.

Posted on their Instagram story this evening:
http://i.imgur.com/fAeKJRZl.jpg

first look at the logo? absolving what I am seeing here....

when do you think we will get our first look at the designs of the turtles?

[Chris]

I’d guess we’ll see a first look in the second half of next year. Movies don’t tend to do the whole “teaser trailer a year out” anymore but we should get a first look image around then. Very curious to see what direction they go in. If this does end up being a sort of sequel to FW I can still see the turtles having slightly different heights and buildings rather than all being the same

[Slash-Dash]

Originally Posted by Chris

I’d guess we’ll see a first look in the second half of next year. Movies don’t tend to do the whole “teaser trailer a year out” anymore but we should get a first look image around then. Very curious to see what direction they go in. If this does end up being a sort of sequel to FW I can still see the turtles having slightly different heights and buildings rather than all being the same

thank you.

[TigerClaw]

It seems like Chris Pratt is your go to actor to voice beloved characters these days.

Do you think he would be cast for this animated movie? What character do you think Chris Pratt would be a good fit for?

[Chris]

I try not to judge who would or wouldn't suit a character, especially for voice acting, as you never know what they could come up with in the booth. To stick with TMNT for an example, I would never have picked LOTR's Sean Austin as Raphael based on what I knew of his work but I loved him in the show.

I'm sure they could easily fill the voice cast with names like Chris Pratt and they'd be just fine, but I really hope they don't go with big names for this as I'd rather see voice actors get the work.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by Chris

I try not to judge who would or wouldn't suit a character, especially for voice acting, as you never know what they could come up with in the booth. To stick with TMNT for an example, I would never have picked LOTR's Sean Austin as Raphael based on what I knew of his work but I loved him in the show.

I'm sure they could easily fill the voice cast with names like Chris Pratt and they'd be just fine, but I really hope they don't go with big names for this as I'd rather see voice actors get the work.

What if Chris Pratt was cast as Casey Jones?

[Chris]

Like I said, I don't like to judge what roles people would or wouldn't suit, especially for voice work. On paper Stephen Amell was a good fit for Casey, but the way the character was written in the film was poor. On the flip side, Chris Evans isn't the first name to jump to mind for Casey but he did a good job in the CG film.

Pratt as Casey wouldn't make or break the film for me. It really would depend on how the character was written and how he voiced it. I just personally would rather they went for voice actors over big names. There's an overlap, and I wouldn't be against a few known names, but I'm just not a fan of stuffing animated films full of celebrity voices when it's more for marketing/publicity than for the film.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Tigerclaw is only bringing up Chris Pratt (twice) because of the recent news of him voicing Garfield and Mario. He brought up Idris Elba immediately after the announcement of him voicing Knuckles.

[TigerClaw]

You know that this CGI movie is going to have some big names for the voices.

Though the Turtles will probably have younger voice actors, but for characters like Casey Jones, April, Shredder, and Splinter, They will get some big names for them.

Since Seth Rogen is producing, He'll get some well known actors in his circle to participate this animated movie.

Chris Evans was the voice of Casey Jones in the 2007 movie, But that was way before people knew him for Captain America.