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Old 04-02-2015, 12:57 PM   #101
CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
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Agree. Never minded them wearing stuff. (Turtle sneakers... adorable.) Certain film people only seem to understand overdoing things though. Guess there is a belief of "go big or go home." Keeping my finger crossed that any changes don't make the amount worse. Or overdo Leo and Raph, they had an appropriate amount last time (imo).

The nerd thing with Donnie... And it's a shame, because he's a better looking character without the glasses. If he's going to have glasses, let the guy make himself some kind of snazzy rimless frames or something. He can create so much, surely he can make himself a prescription.
Contact lenses.
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Old 04-02-2015, 01:06 PM   #102
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Really no need for any of them to have those clothes or "accessories" in the first place, since they're not people and thus have no "need" to cover themselves. I think what annoys me second-most about it (besides how ugly the "outfits" are), is how it just reeks of some studio hack over-thinking things. "Hmmm... why are they 'naked'? I'm not comfortable with that..." Like, it's never been a problem, and now it's this whole thing.
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Old 04-02-2015, 01:09 PM   #103
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Really no need for any of them to have those clothes or "accessories" in the first place, since they're not people and thus have no "need" to cover themselves. I think what annoys me second-most about it (besides how ugly the "outfits" are), is how it just reeks of some studio hack over-thinking things. "Hmmm... why are they 'naked'? I'm not comfortable with that..." Like, it's never been a problem, and now it's this whole thing.
In my experience, siblings may love each other but will often do what they can to distinguish themselves from each other. One way of doing that is personal style. If the Turtles want to pimp their styles, it doesn't bother me.
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Old 04-02-2015, 01:42 PM   #104
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In your experience, are your siblings mutant reptiles who were raised in a sewer?

I mean, my cat had four litters and gave birth to somwhere around 20 kittens in a lifetime, and I never saw any of them start trying to "distinguish" themselves by wearing a proton pack or ill-fitting sweatpants.

I guess it comes down to, "Do the Turtles see themselves as animals, or as humans?" To me, it's always been pretty clear that they do not think of themselves as humans; despite enjoying some aspects of human "culture", they're animals, and animals, by and large, despise wearing clothes. So, that's how I approach it. I can see how some people are using "They WANT to be people!" as their approach, but I'll be honest, it doesn't make sense or seem in any way organic or "realistic", to me.

Saying again, I'm 99% sure it was a studio thing, not a "way to show their individuality" thing. That was tacked on later, I'd guess, way way after the "Why don't they wear any pants?" conversation.

As for how much it "bothers" me, it probably wouldn't as much if the designs they settles on weren't so damned hideous.
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Old 04-02-2015, 01:43 PM   #105
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i feel like they gave each turtle their own persona and equipment because as the movies come together they are going to start to realize they are more alike and start getting rid of all the gear until they look like the turtles we expect
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Old 04-02-2015, 01:46 PM   #106
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i feel like they gave each turtle their own persona and equipment because as the movies come together they are going to start to realize they are more alike and start getting rid of all the gear until they look like the turtles we expect
Nah, if anything, they're going to keep adding to it, because they have toys to sell.

Mark my words, dawg, if they're not wearing mech armor at some point in Part Two, you can bet your bottom dollar that they will in Part Three.
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Old 04-02-2015, 01:47 PM   #107
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I assume some of it may partly be due to the designers choosing to go with a largely human form, sans turtley bits. While their clothing/gear differs, they made of point of covering all of their backsides, which perhaps it was a better choice than trying to figure out how to be realistic and appropriate at the same time, rather than end up with awkwardly, realistically, otherwise 'humanish' bare assed Turtles. Give them a little coverage around there and I guess it opens it up to having to make it make sense otherwise.


In my perspective, I do look at them as people; not human (or not quite), but beings that have met humans on about the same level and about the same level as humans in 'being animals.' (Though I'm sure that is a topic that could open up an endless multi-person debate because perspective and preferences clearly do vary. Though the differences of perspective could be an interesting discussion if kept civil and no debate over who's right or wrong. As if that could ever happen.)

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Old 04-02-2015, 01:54 PM   #108
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I guess it comes down to, "Do the Turtles see themselves as animals, or as humans?" To me, it's always been pretty clear that they do not think of themselves as humans; despite enjoying some aspects of human "culture", they're animals, and animals, by and large, despise wearing clothes. So, that's how I approach it. I can see how some people are using "They WANT to be people!" as their approach, but I'll be honest, it doesn't make sense or seem in any way organic or "realistic", to me.

I honestly couldn't have said it better. perfect answer. This is the main stumbling block of most people. They always posit that Turtles are just monstrous ugly people, and I don't think that was ever the intent. Sure Bebop and Rocksteady were humans, who have since been mutated. They would cling to any human attributes that remain. They would be desperate to retain their individuality, or just the idea of self. That I can get behind. The turtles? no.

They are sentient animals. If you watch Dawn of the Planet of the apes, though the apes at times adopt some human attributes, they also take great pains to distance themselves from humanity, as they are simply not human, and don't wish to be.

The clothing is only a symptom of the deeper problem of how these "artists" are approaching the characterization. They don't understand what they are designing.

The designs should be overhauled 100%. in a cartoon, they can look like smiley faced green men. it's a stylized representation of reality. In reality, they need to look like actual turtles if we're going to invest in them as part of the real world.

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Old 04-02-2015, 02:03 PM   #109
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((Bro Fist))

Welp, my thinking is, "They were mostly-isolated for about 15 years and only really interacted with human fairly recently, so no, their thought processes, wants, needs, feelings, etc. would in no way resemble those of human beings." Why would they? They weren't humans-turned-animals, they were animals-turned-humanoid. That's where I approach it from. And I've never been sold on the idea that having a higher intelligence and the ability to speak would suddenly lead to wanting to do things like "wear clothes because people do". Eat their food and watch their TV, yeah, but someone who went decades never wearing shoes isn't going to suddenly do so just because they saw it on TV, y'know?

I'unno. They have shells, they're covered, they're fine. The rest, just seems like a Solution in search of a Problem. Mutants who were humans-turned-animals, I can see at least wanting to wear clothes, even if it would be impractical for them at that point or whatever. Thinking in terms of animals-turned-humanoid, though, it really seems more, "Why bother?" Like, I can see Rocksteady wearing pants out of habit because he always did "before". Mikey, on the other hand, would find it unnecessary and impractical.
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Old 04-02-2015, 02:12 PM   #110
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which would be infinitly more interesting. As time goes on, the impracticality of being clothed for B&R might set in,(Like in Archie where they eventually go naked) or perhaps they go the other way and feel the need to cover their mutation more and more out of sheer self loathing. That's interesting. On the one side you have the turtles perfectly comfortable in their own skin, and owning who they are.

The first time I saw Avatar in the Theater, The Nav'i were really jarring to look at. Giant blue skinned cats running around - weird proportions etc. at first, you don't quite know what to make of them.

But hours later, as we left the theater, and my eyes had been bombarded with these lanky feline characters, I realised that as I looked around at all the patrons in the lobby, it struck me how odd they appeared. All these pink and brown piggish creatures. Short and distortedly stout.

I'd imagine, after 14 years of looking at other turtle faces (or rat faces) you might be a little specie-ist, and humans would look impossibly odd to the turtles.
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Old 04-02-2015, 02:18 PM   #111
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This is the main stumbling block of most people. They always posit that Turtles are just monstrous ugly people, and I don't think that was ever the intent.
This is the TMNT movie/TV show I wanna see. One where the turtles themselves, after being exposed to the human world, begin to wonder if they have a place in it - are they human, because they walk and talk and feel - or are they just soulless animals who by happy accident have human attributes?

And there doesn't have to be a definite answer. Some of the turtles can feel strongly one way, others another. They can leave it up to the audience to decide.

In terms of design changes - they'll probably cram as many new costumes in as they can so that they can sell more toys. Even the deleted scenes from the last movie got toys.
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IDW took the OT straw and spun it into gold, while Platinum Dunes took the OT straw and spun it into manure.
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Old 04-02-2015, 02:19 PM   #112
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That'd be an interesting idea to roll with. Never see it in this franchise, but yeah, that's an idea.

Like, this is the stuff you think about when you look at TMNT even one millimeter below the surface, and that's what's always interested me the most about it. There's a lot of emotional and psychological things you can explore and play with.

But nah, pizza puns and fart jokes. Way more "fun", way more interesting.
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Old 04-02-2015, 02:25 PM   #113
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In your experience, are your siblings mutant reptiles who were raised in a sewer?

I mean, my cat had four litters and gave birth to somwhere around 20 kittens in a lifetime, and I never saw any of them start trying to "distinguish" themselves by wearing a proton pack or ill-fitting sweatpants.

I guess it comes down to, "Do the Turtles see themselves as animals, or as humans?" To me, it's always been pretty clear that they do not think of themselves as humans; despite enjoying some aspects of human "culture", they're animals, and animals, by and large, despise wearing clothes. So, that's how I approach it. I can see how some people are using "They WANT to be people!" as their approach, but I'll be honest, it doesn't make sense or seem in any way organic or "realistic", to me.

Saying again, I'm 99% sure it was a studio thing, not a "way to show their individuality" thing. That was tacked on later, I'd guess, way way after the "Why don't they wear any pants?" conversation.

As for how much it "bothers" me, it probably wouldn't as much if the designs they settles on weren't so damned hideous.
As much as I wish my experience involved that, no... t'was not to be.

I've always seen the Turtles as having a two-toed foot in each world, that of animal and that of human. This view has been supported by Mirage, and I've never seen the contrary. So as part of embracing their dual nature, knowing they have no true home in either, they take on human culture. Pop music, food, movies, and lately some clothing. Works for me anyway...
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Old 04-02-2015, 02:31 PM   #114
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It kills me that most people don't see it. they can asign all sorts of paethos to Spider-man, Batman etc. but the minute you lead a book with non-humans, it becomes a big joke, with nothing viable to explore.

I don't get it, and hope fully, these last few posts help some of the pro-movie folks get the other side of the equation.

If GOT had been brought to the screen as a surface, brainless adaptation, I would have written it off immediately as another stupid fantasy series, and paid no mind. thankfully, we got show runners who gave a damn, and produced some of the finest television to date.

Better Call Saul could be another procedural lawyer drama, given it's premise. Instead, it's one of the most impressive shows on air, in my opinion, ever.

Verisimilitude folks. It's the life blood of fantasy.
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Old 04-02-2015, 02:34 PM   #115
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I can and do see the other stuff, but with their body types and physiology, I truly think that, for them, wearing clothes would just be a hassle. Like, turtles along with other animals don't need clothing because their shells and their biology takes care of everything (and I'm sure there are many people on the board who can explain it much better than I can). They don't serve any function. I can't imagine that it would be comfortable after years and years of living otherwise. I can't get into that headspace where it would be in any way practical for them. Just seems forced.

42: Big Bonus Points for using one of my very favorite $10 words.
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Old 04-02-2015, 02:37 PM   #116
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42: Big Bonus Points for using one of my very favorite $10 words.
Donner knows best.
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Old 04-02-2015, 02:50 PM   #117
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Not about nicknames.

Seriously, who insists on being called "Dick"?
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Old 04-02-2015, 02:54 PM   #118
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Maybe he's compensating?
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Old 04-02-2015, 02:57 PM   #119
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I imagine it's like, "Ahh, I just really like saying 'Dick'," and the rest is just trolling people. "I wanna see how many people I can force to say it, like librarians and little old ladies."

Dude smokes mad weed, so who knows?
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Old 04-02-2015, 06:31 PM   #120
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Donner's a stoner? Hunh.

I once knew the guy who (according to him) was hired to supply the leads of the first film with party supplies. He said the animosity between Reeve and Kidder was unbearable.

Apparently, in those days it was a below the line budget item.
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