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Old 06-15-2021, 05:10 PM   #21
Andrew NDB
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Originally Posted by hypered1 View Post
As far as I know the only other issues that are definitively the IDW Turtles (ie: those from the ongoing series) are the three Batman crossovers (18 issues)
I thought the Batman crossovers were wholly incompatible with IDW TMNT?
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Old 06-15-2021, 05:20 PM   #22
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I thought the Batman crossovers were wholly incompatible with IDW TMNT?
Ok, bit of course correcting from my previous comment, now that I've done some research.

Batman crossovers 1+2 feature turtles based on those in the main IDW ongoing.

Batman crossover 3 features a different group of turtles also loosely based on the IDW versions but separate to those above who also feature toward the end of the third crossover.

The MMPR crossover turtles characters are mostly based on those from the 1987 cartoon with the exceptions of Karai who is based on the 2003 version and a version of Takeshi Tatsuo who shares a similar history with the IDW version of the character.

The X-Files crossover is set during the Northampton arc but is non-canon, likewise Deviations is an alternate reality of the City Fall arc and 20/20 is a potential future of the IDW continuity (one of the now many) so only those last three issues are same turtles as the ongoing and also the only ones here that are actually published by IDW themselves.
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Old 06-15-2021, 07:12 PM   #23
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Nah. I honestly never did. I'd tell a few of my friends about it and be like, "So they're actually reincarnated from some human beings who died in Japan like a really long time ago," and they're like, "That's stupid", and that's pretty much the way the whole thing starts so if you can't get past that whole premise you kinda can't buy into the rest of it.

Had they ever bothered with it to begin with, they'd certainly hate what's going on with it now. But then most of my friends are more into traditional super-hero type comics, and most of them stopped caring about TMNT some time around 1994. They hear there's a new cartoon or comic and they're like "Oh, that's cool that it's still around," but they have absolutely no urgency to actually re-engage with any of it. TMNT is a thing they liked when they were kids, nothing more. It's not something they stayed invested in and never took a break from, like Batman or whatever.

So no, I wouldn't recommend it because there's honestly nobody I could even recommend it TO in the first place, in my circle. I have friends who will watch the old movies, or a few episodes of the FW cartoon, and that's how they engage with the brand. "Man, this takes me back!" If you try and get them to watch 4Kids, or BayTurtles, or the NickToon, or read a comic book, it's a hard "No". They don't care about the new stuff, not even a little bit.

That's MOST people who'd self-identify as "TMNT fans", quite frankly. It's like they're glad to hear that new stuff exists but they have no desire to actually look at any of it.
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Old 06-15-2021, 07:30 PM   #24
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The TMNT characters in the Batman crossovers are clearly based on their IDW counterparts but there are a few elements that are off and clearly marking the crossovers as non-canon:

Karai claims to be Shredders daughter, which isn't really the case in IDW.
Shredder is put into prison for a while but there is no place where that would fit.
Baxter is mutated into a fly but in IDW he's clearly still a human being.
Krang seems to have tried to defeat the Turtles multiple times but IDW Krang was only ever in direct conflict with them twice if you don't count the trial.

And Uh... It's not a contradiction exactly but the idea that Bebop and Rocksteady would ever lead a faction of the foot is absurd in IDW. Not only are they incompetent idiots incapable of leadership, they're not even respected by anyone. Everyone else kicked them out of their organisation and the Foot only keeps them around because mutating them was expensive, Splinter even kicked them out when he was in charge.
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Turtles is basically the red-headed stepchild of Nick.
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Old 06-15-2021, 07:35 PM   #25
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It's not a contradiction exactly but the idea that Bebop and Rocksteady would ever lead a faction of the foot is absurd in IDW. Not only are they incompetent idiots incapable of leadership, they're not even respected by anyone. Everyone else kicked them out of their organisation and the Foot only keeps them around because mutating them was expensive, Splinter even kicked them out when he was in charge.
Yeah... I could see the writing on the wall with them. The Foot employing them makes the Foot a joke. I don't like the Foot to be a joke.
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Old 06-15-2021, 07:37 PM   #26
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I think the Batman crossovers were originally intended to be canon but they had to change the scripts because DC wouldn't allow IDW to reprint the Batman crossovers in their own IDW collections. Note how IDW was never allowed to even make TPB's of the Batman crossovers, despite releasing the single floppy issues, only DC themselves did that. SO of course they wouldn't be included in IDW's hardcore TMNT collections either.

So obviously if IDW couldn't include them in their collections unlike the Ghostbuster crossovers which ARE canon and have been included in the huge hardcover collections, that's probably why the Batman crossovers became non-canon.

A few years from now the DC license will expire and they probably didn't want to deal with the licensing nightmare.
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Old 06-15-2021, 09:12 PM   #27
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I think a bigger problem is if someone never got into it until now, there's literally 200 issues to go through. The main series has 117 issues so far and then there's around 60-70 more issues through all the mini-series, specials, Annuals, and TMNT universe.

Now you're looking at nearly 200 issues worth of reading and spending.
From my experience IDW’s comics has the easiest way to read everything in order. You have the hardcover collections and the upcoming “trade paper back versions” of those same hardcover collections both of which is cheaper than the actual TPB of the TMNT ongoing. (For example the upcoming Tradecollection is about $40 vs $80 of 4 individual trades that makes it up.)

And if you go less than legal means, Readcomicsonline has a whole section that uploads the “IDW collection” so everything is in reading order.
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Old 06-15-2021, 09:19 PM   #28
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It's still time consuming either way. If I knew a series had 200+ comics to read to get into it, I probably wouldn't bother unless I was a big fan of the franchise.
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Old 06-15-2021, 09:23 PM   #29
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That’s true for a lot of people. But you? If you cut out that marathon of Pokémon you do every year you can make up that time.
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Old 06-15-2021, 09:29 PM   #30
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That’s true for a lot of people. But you? If you cut out that marathon of Pokémon you do every year you can make up that time.
I've been reading since the beginning, I mean new people.
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Old 06-16-2021, 02:13 AM   #31
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I've been reading since the beginning, I mean new people.
I can kind of speak from experience; as I mentioned in an earlier post, I only found the series around the time #56 or #57 was released at which point there would have been about 100 issues altogether.
It was also about the same time that the second hardback collection released (March 2016).
Iirc I looked up scans of the first few issues (at that same ReadComicsOnline site actually) and was hooked pretty much immediately, I ordered up the first two hardbacks and after getting through them I signed up at Comixology and spent the next couple of months catching up, finally getting to issue 60 a couple of weeks before #61 and Universe #1 released.
I then found this place not long after but had to wait forever for my account to be authorized but that's a whole 'nother story.
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Old 06-23-2021, 08:34 PM   #32
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Seems Sophie is staying on IDW TMNT for awhile yet, now it seems like her run is going on passed issue 123. That means most of early 2022 as well.

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if she stays on for the 50 issue run of 101-150. Maybe issue 151-200 will be the return of Tom Waltz to wrap up the series.
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Old 06-23-2021, 09:06 PM   #33
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Yes, imho, I think that it's still the best comic out there.
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Old 06-23-2021, 09:26 PM   #34
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The nicest thing I can say about ANY TMNT comics has always been, "They're okay... for TMNT comics."

By general comic book standards, there's never been a "great" TMNT comic book series. Just some that are more "okay, I guess" than others. I know a lot of "purists" gush about Mirage, but let's be honest, those books have "mainstream appeal" that's measured in negative integers. If you're one of those hipster-type people who can't resist an urge to take swipes at the "big" publishers and insist that anything "underground" is automatically "better" just because it isn't "corporate", then those books are brilliant. Otherwise, they're dry as a rice cake sandwich.

I think it's very telling that most of the people who read TMNT comics - especially the folks who gush about how "great" they are at any given time - ONLY read TMNT comics, and not much of anything else. And likewise, people who read a lot of comics generally don't read TMNT comics, even if they'd self-identify as "fans".
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Old 06-23-2021, 10:14 PM   #35
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The nicest thing I can say about ANY TMNT comics has always been, "They're okay... for TMNT comics."

By general comic book standards, there's never been a "great" TMNT comic book series. Just some that are more "okay, I guess" than others. I know a lot of "purists" gush about Mirage, but let's be honest, those books have "mainstream appeal" that's measured in negative integers. If you're one of those hipster-type people who can't resist an urge to take swipes at the "big" publishers and insist that anything "underground" is automatically "better" just because it isn't "corporate", then those books are brilliant. Otherwise, they're dry as a rice cake sandwich.

I think it's very telling that most of the people who read TMNT comics - especially the folks who gush about how "great" they are at any given time - ONLY read TMNT comics, and not much of anything else. And likewise, people who read a lot of comics generally don't read TMNT comics, even if they'd self-identify as "fans".

I think something that goes unspoken is that you have a very large faction of casual TMNT fans that remember the original theme song and buy t shirts and mugs from Spencers but it ends there. As a brand TMNT is very recognizable but as far as the actual comics go I don't think that much of those have ever cared to really pick up more than a few comics if any.

I grew up on the cartoons and action figures but I did not have access to the Mirage books until I was out of high school. A lot of the stuff I found was already completed or abandoned story wise and it was hard to follow -

When IDW came out with their version that was sort of like an Ultimate Spider-man re-imagining with pieces of different Turtle eras mixed in together I was over joyed to read and collect it. Around that time I was reading a lot of Spider-man, X-men and Batman regularly and what I loved about those stories was the huge worlds and large supporting casts that went across multiple books each month. IDW Turtles mirrored this by introducing so many characters and plot threads that it all felt so grand at the time. But the book got cramped and the Turtles got less and less attention. Imagine if Detective and all the other Batman comics except for the one called "Batman" was canned and instead of fighting crime you had to read a couple of pages of Bruce Wayne golfing and signing documents for 3 years in real time. Lets say a year or so in the solicits tease that they are bringing the Joker back and Bane and Ra's but as soon as they show up in Gotham the only way to send them to Arkham is to have a Battle of the bands in the penguin lounge with Batgirl's punk metal band. Batman could fart on a rooftop for a decade and DC would pay to publish it forever because the Dark Knight sells T Shirts.

So would I still recommend IDW's TMNT? It was once my favorite book, I know I say that a lot. No I would probably just tell them to read Secret History of the Foot. It's a concentrated dose of the best this comic has ever offered.
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Old 06-24-2021, 02:35 AM   #36
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The nicest thing I can say about ANY TMNT comics has always been, "They're okay... for TMNT comics."

By general comic book standards, there's never been a "great" TMNT comic book series. Just some that are more "okay, I guess" than others. I know a lot of "purists" gush about Mirage, but let's be honest, those books have "mainstream appeal" that's measured in negative integers. If you're one of those hipster-type people who can't resist an urge to take swipes at the "big" publishers and insist that anything "underground" is automatically "better" just because it isn't "corporate", then those books are brilliant. Otherwise, they're dry as a rice cake sandwich.

I think it's very telling that most of the people who read TMNT comics - especially the folks who gush about how "great" they are at any given time - ONLY read TMNT comics, and not much of anything else. And likewise, people who read a lot of comics generally don't read TMNT comics, even if they'd self-identify as "fans".
I don't know if that's entirely fair. I think there are plenty of legitimately great stories within each TMNT canon, and I say that in terms of all comics, not just TMNT comics. I just like a good story, and I say that as someone who'll read any comic that seems even a little interesting. I just love the medium. I wouldn't say that and indie comic is necessarily better because it's an indie comic, but I will say that indie comics tend to be a lot more interesting and experimental precisesly because they aren't part of a corporate structure, and that leads to some pretty great storytelling sometimes, Mirage included.

As far as the overall question, I can't say right now. I hope it improves. I want to be able to say "Yeah, IDW TMNT is really good. It has a bit of a slump after issue #100 when the new writer came on, but it picks back up again after #1XX." I don't want to have to say "Yeah, it was really good up until #100, but then it just takes a nosedive and has a really stupid ending." I hope I get to say the first one.
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Old 06-24-2021, 06:12 AM   #37
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Seems Sophie is staying on IDW TMNT for awhile yet, now it seems like her run is going on passed issue 123. That means most of early 2022 as well.

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if she stays on for the 50 issue run of 101-150. Maybe issue 151-200 will be the return of Tom Waltz to wrap up the series.
If thats true, I see the TMNT comic being cancelled. Campbell needs to stick to writing fanfic. Absolute worst garbage writing to date. Worse than Rise. And I hate Rise. Sorry Camps, stick to fanfic & furries doodles. Or embrace your old self & draw like the old days. 17 issues of barf. The most boring & depressing horsesh!t I've ever read and I read the Superman books from 1991 until 2011.
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Old 06-24-2021, 12:00 PM   #38
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The nicest thing I can say about ANY TMNT comics has always been, "They're okay... for TMNT comics."

By general comic book standards, there's never been a "great" TMNT comic book series. Just some that are more "okay, I guess" than others. I know a lot of "purists" gush about Mirage, but let's be honest, those books have "mainstream appeal" that's measured in negative integers. If you're one of those hipster-type people who can't resist an urge to take swipes at the "big" publishers and insist that anything "underground" is automatically "better" just because it isn't "corporate", then those books are brilliant. Otherwise, they're dry as a rice cake sandwich.

I think it's very telling that most of the people who read TMNT comics - especially the folks who gush about how "great" they are at any given time - ONLY read TMNT comics, and not much of anything else. And likewise, people who read a lot of comics generally don't read TMNT comics, even if they'd self-identify as "fans".
Nah. There are dry spells and some "amatuer" work all over Mirage books, but there is also some great stuff, that shouldn't be discredited.
The first thing that comes to mind is City at War. That was a book that took the concept of tmnt and expanded on it and questioned it in an interesting way - what do the turtles do when Shredder is gone? What holds them together? What do they owe Splinter? Spliced together with Lawson at his peak, doing some pretty cool action scenes.

But you also have other great stories like the Rick Veitch books, which are a ton of fun to the Michael Zulli "Souls Winter" books which is a fascinating spin on the turtles.

If you don't love the stories, they're at least competent and most include top notch artists like A.C. Farley, Corben, Zulli, or Veitch.

I actually think Jim Lawson's volume 2 is really cool, but it might not be the best example. More of a personal favorite, probably.

Mirage is anything but consistent. You could pick out some mediocre stuff, but the book can be pretty great too.

I read all types of comics...Amazing Spider-Man, From Hell, Batman, Maus, etc. All across the spectrum.
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Old 06-24-2021, 02:25 PM   #39
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Nah. There are dry spells and some "amatuer" work all over Mirage books, but there is also some great stuff, that shouldn't be discredited.
The first thing that comes to mind is City at War. That was a book that took the concept of tmnt and expanded on it and questioned it in an interesting way - what do the turtles do when Shredder is gone? What holds them together? What do they owe Splinter? Spliced together with Lawson at his peak, doing some pretty cool action scenes.

But you also have other great stories like the Rick Veitch books, which are a ton of fun to the Michael Zulli "Souls Winter" books which is a fascinating spin on the turtles.

If you don't love the stories, they're at least competent and most include top notch artists like A.C. Farley, Corben, Zulli, or Veitch.

I actually think Jim Lawson's volume 2 is really cool, but it might not be the best example. More of a personal favorite, probably.

Mirage is anything but consistent. You could pick out some mediocre stuff, but the book can be pretty great too.

I read all types of comics...Amazing Spider-Man, From Hell, Batman, Maus, etc. All across the spectrum.
Even at its worst, Mirage was never 18 issues of furries fluff.
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Old 06-24-2021, 04:06 PM   #40
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Well there WAS this Mirage 3-parter:



Yeah, we don't speak of these issues.
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