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Old 05-20-2022, 08:58 AM   #1
Prowler
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Who was the best secondary villain in the FW series?

Basically, any villain that's not Shredder, Krang, Rocksteady and Bebop can be mentioned.

For me it's easily The Rat King. I liked all of his episodes and he also had some shades of grey, even helping the Turtles out in a couple of episodes. And to think the first time he helped them out was on his very second episode.

And there's also his appearance in Pizza by the Shred where he just ends up being stuck between Shredder and the Turtles.

His team up with Leatherhead was great too.
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Old 05-20-2022, 09:15 AM   #2
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Technically Dregg I guess? There is a general lack of good villains in this show, so Dregg automatically wins by virtue of at least being given the pretense that he is a serious threat.
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Old 05-20-2022, 09:28 AM   #3
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Technically Dregg I guess? There is a general lack of good villains in this show, so Dregg automatically wins by virtue of at least being given the pretense that he is a serious threat.
I dunno where to place Dregg. I mean he does replace Shredder and Krang was the main villain of the series in the last two seasons. But at the same time, you feel like he's more of a temporary villain and left wondering when Shredder and Krang will be back. At least that's how I felt while watching seasons 9 and 10 back then. I was so excited when they briefly came back in that three parter in season 10.

Dregg was a good villain sure, but he debuted at a time where the show had gotten a bit more serious. Who knows how he would have been portrayed had he debuted on season 4 after Shredder and Krang were sent over to Dimension X again.

And the only secondary villain to get a Red Sky appearance was The Rat King. And he's always been one of the most serious villains of the series anyway.
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Old 05-20-2022, 11:24 AM   #4
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Titanus and HAVOC were a neat concept. Baxter was a good attempt because even Fly Baxter could be smart when we needed to be. Biig Louie and Pinky McFingers were on their way.

I know Next Mutation tried this route, but of course failed. So the idea was there.
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Old 05-20-2022, 01:04 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prowler View Post
Basically, any villain that's not Shredder, Krang, Rocksteady and Bebop can be mentioned.

For me it's easily The Rat King. I liked all of his episodes and he also had some shades of grey, even helping the Turtles out in a couple of episodes. And to think the first time he helped them out was on his very second episode.

And there's also his appearance in Pizza by the Shred where he just ends up being stuck between Shredder and the Turtles.

His team up with Leatherhead was great too.
Yes, it is pretty easy since here at least we combine The Shredder and Krang as one threat oppose to separate threats. Also, yes it is The Rat King. 10 appearances and if I am not mistaken is the highest number of a secondary character in the series unless you combine Baxter Stockman as a human and a fly with 13, 6 as The Fly.

I never understood why The Rat King was said to be a neutral character. He helped the Turtles ONE TIME because he was attracted to April's red hair. The other time he helped them it was pitting two opponents against each other after Pinky McFingers double crossed Rat King so Rat King sent the Turtles his way without having to get directly involved, his investment and ability to rule dissolved with the mob boss betraying him.

I wished we had an origin for The Rat King in the 1987 cartoon. Yes, we FINALLY got one in Tales of The TMNT Vol.2, but the more fitting origin was given to us in the 2012 cartoon. Dr. Falco had the personality and acted just like the 1987 cartoon, but only recieved 3 episodes before he is dead?! Its not a coinicidence that once both The Shredder and Rat King are dead my interest wanes as the rogues gallery has plenty but not much depth or iconic villainy beyond the two and Krang. Baxter being a lackey against his will.

I am curious to what the third and final appearance in TMNT Adventures will bring for Rat King. He has a prolonged life and the obivious plot of Rat King vs mousers was teased to have happened off panel.

I do like the concept and actually concieved the idea in my mind before the 2012 cartoon of The Rat King being a rejected scientist. It makes sense and it was nice to see his costume actually carry over from his single Mirage appaearance. One thing that has always intrigued me and no one seems to know is why of all the opponents The Turtles had why was The Rat King introduced into the cartoon? The 1987 cartoon made him a reoccuring presence in the franchise, but the fact he was randomly used for the show is interesting. He is the first one to be featured outside of Shredder/Krang as well. He carried 3 of the 4 episodes without Shredder/Krang in the sydicated run.
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Old 05-20-2022, 01:20 PM   #6
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My personal headcanon is the Rat King was horrified by the Mousers back in season 1 which may have destroyed his home and killed some rats infront of him. Left homeless, he took refuge in the sewers and befriended the rats.

As for my favourite, I'm actually a little torn between Rat King and General Traag. Rat King is super charismatic, but I find General Traag really interesting in how he is so super loyal to Krang to the point where it almost seems like he worships him.

We know that the Rock soldiers were created by Krang, yet they appear to be sentient. The question is, are they only loyal to Krang because they were programmed by him to be that way, or do they revere Krang because they choose to?
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Old 05-20-2022, 03:17 PM   #7
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Rat King has the most amount of episodes after Shredder/Krang. Then Baxter Stockman followed by the rest. (not counting Dregg who had 16 episodes straight).

Leatherhead was only in 4 episodes, Groundchuck/Dirtbag only 3 (technically 2 if you count Planet of the Turtleoids as 1 episode), and Slash only 3.
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Old 05-20-2022, 03:24 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
Rat King has the most amount of episodes after Shredder/Krang. Then Baxter Stockman followed by the rest. (not counting Dregg who had 16 episodes straight).

Leatherhead was only in 4 episodes, Groundchuck/Dirtbag only 3 (technically 2 if you count Planet of the Turtleoids as 1 episode), and Slash only 3.
It's always strange to remember Leatherhead was only in 4 episodes. It feels like he was in a few more than that. I guess because he left a strong impression in every single episode he was in?
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Old 05-20-2022, 03:24 PM   #9
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I would say Doomquest was a great villain. He only had one episode but he was very powerful.
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Old 05-20-2022, 03:28 PM   #10
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It's always strange to remember Leatherhead was only in 4 episodes. It feels like he was in a few more than that. I guess because he left a strong impression in every single episode he was in?
I'd say that says a lot about all the secondary characters in the show, it feels like they all appeared a LOT more than they did, and then you realize they were all only in a handful of episodes.

The Neutrinos are only in 5 episodes, yet it feels like they were in 10+ or something. Mondo Gecko only had 2 episodes. Lotus Blossom only 2 episodes. Casey only 5. Zack was in 7. Chrome Dome got 2 episodes. Tempestra was in 2 episodes. Rahzar/Tokka only 1 episode.
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Old 05-20-2022, 03:36 PM   #11
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I'd say that says a lot about all the secondary characters in the show, it feels like they all appeared a LOT more than they did, and then you realize they were all only in a handful of episodes.

The Neutrinos are only in 5 episodes, yet it feels like they were in 10+ or something. Mondo Gecko only had 2 episodes. Lotus Blossom only 2 episodes. Casey only 5. Zack was in 7. Chrome Dome got 2 episodes. Tempestra was in 2 episodes. Rahzar/Tokka only 1 episode.
Well, despite all the criticism we give the show here, one thing we have to hand it to FW: Secondary characters generally stole the show or had very memorable episodes whenever they showed up. They didn't show up just for the sake of making an appearance.
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Old 05-20-2022, 09:19 PM   #12
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i kinda liked lotus blosom but then again she wasent really a villain more about honor i think thats why her and leo had some feelings for each other
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Old 05-21-2022, 01:49 AM   #13
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Rat King, in a normal series.

In Red Skies, Dregg takes over as the main villain, but I've never considered him to be a good villain or an interesting character. He always felt like a Power Rangers reject with a goofy design.
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Old 05-22-2022, 12:48 AM   #14
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Titanus and HAVOC were a neat concept. Baxter was a good attempt because even Fly Baxter could be smart when we needed to be. Biig Louie and Pinky McFingers were on their way.

I know Next Mutation tried this route, but of course failed. So the idea was there.
Baxter actually got gradually less intelligent with each appearance after he was mutated into a fly. Eventually he was so dumb that he couldn't get anything done without the help of his computer friend. He got distracted by sugar and half the time couldn't even remember what he was trying to get revenge for. Even mistook Vernon for April and thought computer chips were edible. In his final appearance the turtles just throw him into a dimensional limbo just before he was about to turn himself to normal.

I feel like the FW writers really hated Baxter for some reason.

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Old 05-22-2022, 09:02 AM   #15
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Yes, I remember "Son Of" being his dumbest moments, but then in Landlord of the Flies, he was able to control flies all by himself. Revenge brought the computer back, but Baxter seemed a lot more intelligent than Son Of. Plus, it seemed that the writers completely ignored that Landlord existed,
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Old 05-22-2022, 12:35 PM   #16
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I wished we had an origin for The Rat King in the 1987 cartoon.
I've said this before: Make Rat King skilled in chemistry. When younger, he studied in a university but was kicked out for doing dangerous expirements with the chemicals. Seeking revenge on society, he went undergound into the sewers and began his career as the Rat King.
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Old 05-22-2022, 09:36 PM   #17
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Leatherhead had the most unique personality in my opinion. He was also the most intimidating.
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Old 05-23-2022, 03:13 AM   #18
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Leatherhead had the most unique personality in my opinion.
During Season 3 he fought the Rat King. During Season 4, they teamed up.

Last edited by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan; 05-23-2022 at 05:08 AM.
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Old 05-23-2022, 03:43 AM   #19
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Not only that, but 3 out of 4 Leatherhead episodes feature the Rat King as well. Those two sure did turn out to be the most unlikely of allies.
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Old 05-23-2022, 08:45 AM   #20
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Not only that, but 3 out of 4 Leatherhead episodes feature the Rat King as well. Those two sure did turn out to be the most unlikely of allies.
The two went from at odds with each other, to buddies, back to being at odds with each other. I agree!!
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