[Discussion] Rise of the TMNT: Episode #1

[Unworthy tinker]

It's difficult to find something you like without any flaws. There is no "everything is absolutely flawed" or "everything is perfect." While waiting on new TMNT content, I fell down the Voltron rabbit hole. I can say that even when I was immersed in the franchise, almost as much as I tend to be with turtles, I found myself disliking many elements of some stories, flat out hating one iteration. Yet even the one I hated contained some okay story elements, just wasn't enough to win me over. Reason my example is Voltron and not TMNT because I'll admit, I don't really have a version of TMNT that I flat out hate, but that's just it. Even the most awful can have a positive. What I find mediocre, others greatly dislike. Opinions vary. Opinions on specific elements of an iteration can vary. While I don't mind the humor in Rise, I know some do. You may not like it, but others do. And those who do enjoy it don't mindlessly enjoy it because it's TMNT. There can still be cons, even if it's (objectively) great. Opinions can vary, not just from person to person, but in what a person dislikes in something great, or vice versa. Mixed bags exist.

[snake]

I like it.

[discordiatookie]

Finally watched the first ep. Surprisingly found myself loving it. Awesome art/animation, funny jokes for the most part, and although fairly random, there was a decent story/plot in there. Not normally a massive fan of Leo, but he was my favourite turtle in this.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by discordiatookie

Not normally a massive fan of Leo, but he was my favourite turtle in this.

One of things I was afraid of honestly. And this comment is not at all directed at you or has anything to do you personally, you only just put it well and simply.

Completely throw out his normal personality just to make him less "boring" so people who don't normally like him will like him better now. (Gotta improve those toy sales, right? Can't sell enough if you don't make him more popular!) I mean, that's all well and good I guess that non-Leo people end up liking him, but in doing so they kind of left his longtime fans (at least the majority who are drawn to him for who he normally is) out in the cold. (Thanks Nick. People had their fave Turtles, why did they need ours?) It better not be something Nick sticks with beyond this...

Ten years from now I do not look forward to the debates with these kids that will be insisting that this is who Leo is in general. Pthh. (Or my nephew in a year or two.)

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

One of things I was afraid of honestly. And this comment is not at all directed at you or has anything to do you personally, you only just put it well and simply.

Completely throw out his normal personality just to make him less "boring" so people who don't normally like him will like him better now. (Gotta improve those toy sales, right? Can't sell enough if you don't make him more popular!) I mean, that's all well and good I guess that non-Leo people end up liking him, but in doing so they kind of left his longtime fans (at least the majority who are drawn to him for who he normally is) out in the cold. (Thanks Nick. People had their fave Turtles, why did they need ours?) It better not be something Nick sticks with beyond this...

Ten years from now I do not look forward to the debates with these kids that will be insisting that this is who Leo is in general. Pthh. (Or my nephew in a year or two.)

Definitely agree.

[Ashwolf]

Same here. I mean, really, leo as he was mightve been boring to most people but to us long-time leo fans, there is so much more to him than meets the eye.

[Kit31]

As a big-time Leo fan, I also agree. I'm getting better with Leo the more I watch this series, but he's still not my favorite. Although, he didn't win me over at the beginning of the last series, either. I ended up adoring Leo in 2012, and he's my favorite version of him. So, there's hope for this Leo, but right now, Donnie's got my main focus.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

One of things I was afraid of honestly. And this comment is not at all directed at you or has anything to do you personally, you only just put it well and simply.

Completely throw out his normal personality just to make him less "boring" so people who don't normally like him will like him better now. (Gotta improve those toy sales, right? Can't sell enough if you don't make him more popular!) I mean, that's all well and good I guess that non-Leo people end up liking him, but in doing so they kind of left his longtime fans (at least the majority who are drawn to him for who he normally is) out in the cold. (Thanks Nick. People had their fave Turtles, why did they need ours?) It better not be something Nick sticks with beyond this...

Ten years from now I do not look forward to the debates with these kids that will be insisting that this is who Leo is in general. Pthh. (Or my nephew in a year or two.)

The thing is in previous versions Leo being the leader is all he had. One 80s ep he even quit the team because he felt he couldn't lead anymore without considering he might be helpful in other ways.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Ten years from now I do not look forward to the debates with these kids that will be insisting that this is who Leo is in general. Pthh. (Or my nephew in a year or two.)

So...not unlike how fans of Raph and Mike felt when the jump from Mirage to the OT.

[Shark_Blade]

I also like Leo, Raph & Mikey more in this series.

Don seems to still be Don.

Leo is more laid back and jokey - the Trickster as they call him. It makes him more endearing to me. And he’s not the leader, so that’s an interesting change.

Raph is no longer on raging menstruation or pissy 24/7. He’s so gentle and positive now.

And Mikey is no longer retarded or spouting nonsense like cottage cheese or whatnot.

So overall, I like all of them.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

The thing is in previous versions Leo being the leader is all he had. One 80s ep he even quit the team because he felt he couldn't lead anymore without considering he might be helpful in other ways.

Honestly, not even talking about the leader part. More about him becoming Mikey 2.0 because, hey, that's more fun.

I don't agree though that being leader is all he had. As Ashwolf said, there is a lot more to him, but it's not so in your face and obvious if he isn't one you tend to pay much attention to. (Even if the last films suck, that underlying subplot with him in 2016 is still a decent example. Even if their whole point of it ended without much impact. As well as plenty of examples in other incarnations.) I'll never be crazy about him losing his "job," but it's losing all the rest of him that really bums me out.

edit: The stoic straight man, the careful strategist, the well mannered boy scout of the group, the focused, determined, student and perfectionist of his craft, the respectful and mindful son, the calm, cool mind with a spiritual sense, the wannabe noble samurai, the guy willing to take the responsibility for things and, as a personal flaw, blames himself even when he shouldn't, the big bro who'd lay down his life in a heartbeat to ensure that his brothers (or friends) go home alive... and so on. There is so much they could have chosen to focus on and develop more that would have been a plus, exploring existing traits more deeply, instead of making him act like a butthead. (Even if it isn't a "serious" show... They could have played it well, the guy trying to be serious in a show that isn't. He could end up the butt of some jokes for it, but so be it, what 'stick in the mud' sort doesn't. lol)

2012 itself tried to go younger, but it worked there. Rather than trying to remake him as someone else from scratch, they simply added a little bit to his profile.

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

So...not unlike how fans of Raph and Mike felt when the jump from Mirage to the OT.

Yes, entirely fair to say, but two wrongs don't make a right either. Would make more sense to improve on Raph and Mikey instead. (They've certainly needed it as of late.)

At the same time... how old were most people who even knew Mirage existed prior to late 1987? I doubt few kids my age at the time even knew of it, let alone be allowed to read it (with what limited reading skills there were). And that was also a jump from just a few years of character development vs for Leo today nearly a complete eradication of it after 34 years.

[LilithMV]

I also liked the episode. It was not as funny as the 2K12, nor as cool as 2K3, and not as original as the original cartoon felt to me. But it was cute and kinda funny. I loved the little things such as poor Mikey hitting himself with his nunchucks when one of the opponents grabbed him in the begging. And April continue to hit the flying thingies, and then doing a thumbs up and the turtle boys doing the same.

The one thing in the turtle-verse that I felt it came closest to is the old Turtle Adventures comics from early nineties. Just as goofy and funny. I still have a lot of those comics and read them from time to time. I even got the first 10 books of collected issues.

One of the things I loved the most is that April now genuinely felt like she was their best friends, part of team. Instead of like the odd human team mate that she always came of as, at least to me, before. She is just as goofy as they are.

So yeah, I was surprised I really liked it.
Although at first I thought I would not like them going that goofy route (thinking of the figures mostly), but I still like it.

[IndigoErth]

Just a random thought, but with the first few eps (or segments of) already released and the real premier happening soon after school starts, I'm honestly kind of surprised there isn't at least a little bit of 'Rise' themed school stuff out there. Twice I've peeked at Walmart's stuff and not a bit of TMNT, in any form, to be seen.

Obviously it's too soon to know how well its merchandise will actually sell, but I figured there might at least be a folder or two given the timing; seeing how, new version or not, it's at least still a property kids are already familiar with.

Next year there will probably be an overload... lol

[SilverNinja]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Honestly, not even talking about the leader part. More about him becoming Mikey 2.0 because, hey, that's more fun.

I don't agree though that being leader is all he had. As Ashwolf said, there is a lot more to him, but it's not so in your face and obvious if he isn't one you tend to pay much attention to. (Even if the last films suck, that underlying subplot with him in 2016 is still a decent example. Even if their whole point of it ended without much impact. As well as plenty of examples in other incarnations.) I'll never be crazy about him losing his "job," but it's losing all the rest of him that really bums me out.

edit: The stoic straight man, the careful strategist, the well mannered boy scout of the group, the focused, determined, student and perfectionist of his craft, the respectful and mindful son, the calm, cool mind with a spiritual sense, the wannabe noble samurai, the guy willing to take the responsibility for things and, as a personal flaw, blames himself even when he shouldn't, the big bro who'd lay down his life in a heartbeat to ensure that his brothers (or friends) go home alive... and so on. There is so much they could have chosen to focus on and develop more that would have been a plus, exploring existing traits more deeply, instead of making him act like a butthead. (Even if it isn't a "serious" show... They could have played it well, the guy trying to be serious in a show that isn't. He could end up the butt of some jokes for it, but so be it, what 'stick in the mud' sort doesn't. lol)

2012 itself tried to go younger, but it worked there. Rather than trying to remake him as someone else from scratch, they simply added a little bit to his profile.




Yes, entirely fair to say, but two wrongs don't make a right either. Would make more sense to improve on Raph and Mikey instead. (They've certainly needed it as of late.)

At the same time... how old were most people who even knew Mirage existed prior to late 1987? I doubt few kids my age at the time even knew of it, let alone be allowed to read it (with what limited reading skills there were). And that was also a jump from just a few years of character development vs for Leo today nearly a complete eradication of it after 34 years.

YES! Man oh man, everything you said...I wholeheartedly agree!

Leo has been my absolute favorite from the very beginning. I chose him because no one in my area said Leo was their favorite and I was also drawn to him. He reminded me of myself. Leonardo was always the underdog, but people would still be drawn to him because he was leader, has katanas and adorned blue. I seriously despise when people say..."I like the blue one" or "I like the one with swords" and it would be solely for those reasons.

Now having seen Rise...I don't hate it, but that's not my Leo. I couldn't wrap my head around Splinter either, but it's still early. I was extremely open to Rise and I have been optimistic before the first episode went live. However, I wasn't loving this first episode. I really like the opening theme, but I don't feel close to this incarnation of the turtles...yet. One pet peeve is that I feel the voices are totally all wrong. I wish different voice actors were chosen to play the turtles because the ones chosen do not feel like a suitable match. Again though, I may grow to adjust to these voices.

Even though the new Leo is nothing like previous versions of Leonardo, I think Rise Leo might be my favorite of the four turtles thus far. I also like Donnie in this series. Raph would always place second in most versions for me, but I'm not digging hulk Raph all that much.

I guess I'll see how I feel once I dive in to more episodes. I totally get this is geared towards the kiddies this time around, which I do understand and appreciate, but I'd love to see a serious version geared 100% to adults someday.

[drag0nfeathers]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

edit: The stoic straight man, the careful strategist, the well mannered boy scout of the group, the focused, determined, student and perfectionist of his craft, the respectful and mindful son, the calm, cool mind with a spiritual sense, the wannabe noble samurai, the guy willing to take the responsibility for things and, as a personal flaw, blames himself even when he shouldn't, the big bro who'd lay down his life in a heartbeat to ensure that his brothers (or friends) go home alive... and so on. There is so much they could have chosen to focus on and develop more that would have been a plus, exploring existing traits more deeply, instead of making him act like a butthead. (Even if it isn't a "serious" show... They could have played it well, the guy trying to be serious in a show that isn't. He could end up the butt of some jokes for it, but so be it, what 'stick in the mud' sort doesn't. lol)

You brought a tear to my eye.

So many of the reasons why I love Leo and am sort of miffed they considered him to apparently be the most disposable turtle by completely butchering his character. Again, I'm not totally against change and I'll give things a chance, but it also was a bit of a gut punch.

[King Kahn]

after watching the first 4 episodes it has grown on me.

It is very different. Very action and humor heavy. It reminds me a lot of teen titans go.

I still don't love the designs but it is a new take and am willing to let it just exist and have fun. I have other iterations that I love and will revisit often.

[Kit31]

Originally Posted by King Kahn

after watching the first 4 episodes it has grown on me.

It is very different. Very action and humor heavy. It reminds me a lot of teen titans go.

I still don't love the designs but it is a new take and am willing to let it just exist and have fun. I have other iterations that I love and will revisit often.

^^^ THIS! This is exactly how I feel. Words can't express how much I miss the look of the 2012 series and the overall tone of the show. But, this iteration is fun and I'll still watch it when they air new episodes. I just can't watch the same episodes over and over again like I could with the last series. That's okay. At least there are new Turtles episodes to look forward to and that's good enough for me.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I finally watched the first episode on YouTube a little while ago, and.... Ugh. So cringy, with the cheesy 90's references, April in general (not being black, but being a rabid nutcase) the changes to Leo and Raph, the lame jokes, overly-bright and simplistic animation, etc. The voices, I was mostly okay with- except Splinter. In fact, NOTHING about Splinter was good. He was like Mr. Ages from NIHM went pot-head couch potato. And while I didn't mind Mikey this time, he sort of got lost with Leo stealing his schtick. So disappointing on so many fronts. Even Mr D, who was only listening to it while I watched, asked if it was as bad as it sounded.

The video I watched had a couple of interruptions from thw VAs for April and Raph, both of whom were basically saying "So how do you like it so far? You like it, right?" As if they were trying WAAAY to hard to get people to like this. It's sad, because it shows just how little faith they actually have. Like they KNOW it's bad, but hope the kids will watch it anyway. Considering the recent trend in cartoons, I am not surprised.

[Vegita-San]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

The video I watched had a couple of interruptions from thw VAs for April and Raph, both of whom were basically saying "So how do you like it so far? You like it, right?" As if they were trying WAAAY to hard to get people to like this. It's sad, because it shows just how little faith they actually have. Like they KNOW it's bad, but hope the kids will watch it anyway. Considering the recent trend in cartoons, I am not surprised.

Wow, they REALLY went that far? Pandering for likes DURING a show?


sigh. so hope this fails and the team behind it disbands. only ones i want failing up is rob and bauza. everyone else, meh.

if this is what tv has turned into, no wonder people stick to yt for entertainment.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

The video I watched had a couple of interruptions from thw VAs for April and Raph, both of whom were basically saying "So how do you like it so far? You like it, right?"

I noticed that when I pulled up the YouTube video the other day just to refresh my memory on something in it, and while just skipping through it saw April's VA show up and wondered what that was even about. Didn't bother stopping to listen. Not even watching it through it was kind of annoying to throw the actors in the middle of it.

(Bad enough she apparently had a recent "Twitter meltdown" over something stupid. If any of these VAs end up out the door sooner or later like Biggs was... might be that one.)