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Old 03-02-2021, 05:22 PM   #161
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Why a black Superman though? Why not a Mexican Superman? Or a Chinese Superman? Or an Indian Superman? Or a Muslim Superman?
EXACTLY. X. Ackt. Lee.
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Old 03-02-2021, 05:38 PM   #162
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But if we must debate the merits of a black superman.
Why can't those people create superheroes of their own, instead race-lifting pre-existing characters?
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Old 03-02-2021, 07:33 PM   #163
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Why can't those people create superheroes of their own, instead race-lifting pre-existing characters?
Because then you get **** like that Super Friendship Squad or whatever that show is called.
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Old 03-03-2021, 01:55 AM   #164
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Because then you get **** like that Super Friendship Squad or whatever that show is called.
They have enough money to write competent writers and market new character as they see fit. Its not an excuse anymore.
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Old 03-03-2021, 04:58 PM   #165
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They tried to set up an entire "blacks-only" comic book company back in the 90s with Milestone, and gave it a huge push out of the gate with a big DC cross-over - which annoyed the crap out of people because several ongoing arcs in multiple books were abruptly put on hold for a few weeks so that this "Big Important Event" with a bunch of characters nobody had ever heard of could take center stage. The entire line shut down in less than four years due to an overwhelming lack of interest. Static Shock hung on and even managed to get a cartoon series, but there was a lot more stuff that was completely ignored. DC eventually bought them out and periodically tries to inject them into the main universe, but again, nobody honestly cares about Icon and Hardware.

The "why" of all this has been explored to death, and some of the reasons are generally dismissed as being racist. But if a company tried to launch a minority-focused line at the height of the comic book speculation boom, when every publisher had its own new super-hero "universe", and they put a lot of money and effort into marketing and advertising these things, including a DC cross-over and a ton of ink in Wizard magazine... and it didn't work... then maybe it's just not something that works. That was the biggest, best, and most sincere effort in that endeavor, and it failed.

Every effort since then to "inject diversity" into mainstream comics has been very cynical and corporate-mandated, whereas Milestone was a creator-driven task where a bunch of minority writers and artists saw a hole in the marketplace and tried to address it in an honest and reasonable way completely on their own. But where was the audience? Why didn't they turn out to support this project? Again, there's a lot of reasons given, but you're generally not supposed to address them out loud because "that's racist".

It could be that, generally speaking, there are enough minorities who already like Superman, Batman, the X-Men, etc. for who they already are and don't specifically need "Black Superman" or "Black Batman" in order to feel "included" or more "represented". There's a very strong possibility that the minorities who were already buying Superman comics didn't care about buying comics about Icon, and saw the premise of "What if Superman were a black guy instead?" as pandering. Again, much of it is speculative; what's NOT speculative is, they "created new characters", they wrote new stories, and in the end people didn't care enough to support the brand, and the brand shut down very quickly. Most people don't even remember "Milestone".

So I kind of understand why if minority creators are looking to get some ink, it's quicker/easier to just "race-flip" an existing character than come up with a new one. But it still kind of illustrates a problem with their approach when they're so incredibly convinced that minorities only respond to characters who strongly resemble them.

I'm sure there are some people who'd only like Superman or Wonder Woman if they were Black, or whatever else, but I have to believe that they're a minority of a minority.
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Old 03-03-2021, 05:39 PM   #166
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I don't understand this recent idea that people need fictional characters to look like them in order to relate better to them and thus become fans.

Look at anime and Japanese videogames. They're popular all over the world. Do you think kids all over the world like that stuff any less because the characters are mostly Japanese? Of course not. When I was a kid EVERYONE watched some anime TV and I've never, and I mean LITERALLY NEVER, heard any kid around my age at the time complain there weren't enough white characters in anime. I didn't hear any of the black kids I know complain about the lack of black characters either.

So really, where is all of this coming from? Must be from a VERY small vocal minority. What kind of normal person keeps tabs on how many people of each colour exist in each series as they flip through channels?
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Old 03-03-2021, 10:24 PM   #167
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The thing that gets me is why the companies choose to pander to the minority over the majority. The SJWS don't buy the books, they just use them to make articles to announce that it's the first (insert whatever diverse here) or to complain that the new book is not diverse enough.

This whole 'like me' nonsense has got to stop.

OK, I admit, as a Hispanic, I do smile when I hear Spanish in an 'American' movie. I thought Luis from the MCU was a riot, but he has his role and doesn't need to be the main character for example. I don't need Winter Soldier to be cast as Hispanic for me to like him nor do I need some big 'all Hispanic cast' movie about Miguel O'Hara or whatever.

On the flip-side characters that feel forced and they have to throw an 'ese' every third sentence bother me, cause not all of us talk like that.
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Old 03-04-2021, 01:22 AM   #168
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I don't understand this recent idea that people need fictional characters to look like them in order to relate better to them and thus become fans.
Individualism + post-modernism + social networks made a lot of young, and not only, people narcisstic, to the point where they can't hear "no" as an answer and think they are the most amazing (and somehow) most oppressed people on the planet, thus demanding TO BE represented everywhere.

Basically a colossal ego trip, pandered by corporations, who don't understand that nothing will satisfy them, just will make them more hungry and stupid.
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Old 03-04-2021, 08:33 AM   #169
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Individualism + post-modernism + social networks made a lot of young, and not only, people narcisstic, to the point where they can't "no" as an answer and think they are the most amazing (and somehow) most oppressed people on the planet, thus demanding TO BE represented everywhere.

Basically a colossal ego trip, pandered by corporations, who don't understand that nothing will satisfy them, just will make them more hungry and stupid.
I absolutely love and respect the insight for writing this behaviorally focused post about the nature of what is going on right now. This is the root system by which I tend to explain how things happen.

It's one that is often way too overlooked by people looking for explanations, and ignored by people who do these things. The very nature of their problem means that they will not look at themselves and recognize these negative things about their personality, and therefore they can't change. The very nature of the problem informs these people that they don't have a problem.
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Old 03-04-2021, 08:41 AM   #170
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What's worse this idiots obscure problems and real oppression of others with their ********, like "I have very unique special gender - I am the most oppressed person on Earth, donate me money and make laws to protect me or you are a Nazi!!".

As a result tax money go to those pathetic idiots, while people who need real help end up with nothing.

To put it bluntly - they are NOT victims, they are parasites.
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Old 03-04-2021, 11:04 AM   #171
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I'm still waiting for my white 50 Cent. Black people get all the cool hip, hop guys and we just have Eminem.
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Old 03-04-2021, 03:42 PM   #172
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I have a feeling, that if Eminem debuted this days he would be immediately "cancelled" on the grounds of "cultural appropriation" and "racism".
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Old 03-04-2021, 06:49 PM   #173
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I have a feeling, that if Eminem debuted this days he would be immediately "cancelled" on the grounds of "cultural appropriation" and "racism".
Eminem always acknowledged that he was in a position of privilege and talked a lot of the black artists he took inspiration from and helped him get to the position he was in. He wouldn't be cancelled for that.

His homophobia might be a problem but this is a area I feel he has legitimately evolved on. If he debuted now it likely wouldn't be part of music.
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Old 03-04-2021, 09:21 PM   #174
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Meh. I think Madchild is way better than Eminem ever was. Eminem was very much a corporate MTV creation whereas Mad represents the underground. Madchild was once banned from America for congregating with Hell's Angels; that's "street cred" that money can't buy.

Em spits faster but I think Mad's rhymes are legit funnier. Plus, Mad wrote "Red Dragon", which pretty much trumps everything, anywhere, ever.

The only bad thing about Mad (aside from being a huge drug addict) is that he's Canadian. But on a case-by-case basis I'm occasionally willing to overlook that. I mean it's bad, but it's forgivable. Especially since he moved to L.A. at one point and I think he's a dual-citizen now.

But yeah, everybody talks about Eminem, and nobody ever remembers that Madchild absolutely belongs in the conversation. He wrote a song called "Zombie F*cker." That's awesome.
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Old 03-05-2021, 02:58 AM   #175
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Eminem always acknowledged that he was in a position of privilege and talked a lot of the black artists he took inspiration from and helped him get to the position he was in. He wouldn't be cancelled for that.
You assume that SJW trash would have enough brain to figure it out, but they go for people regardless of how much good work they've done.

If you did something wrong in their eyes - you are forever bad guy and nothing will redeem you. Yes, they are that childish and infantile.
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Old 03-05-2021, 08:57 AM   #176
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I have a feeling, that if Eminem debuted this days he would be immediately "cancelled" on the grounds of "cultural appropriation" and "racism".
They're already trying.

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Old 03-05-2021, 09:15 AM   #177
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I am admittedly not much of a fan of his, but that's pretty stupid.

Rap music by definition is very much about anger. Some of that's political, some of it's domestic, but it's rooted in feelings of dissatisfaction and rage. That's like the entire point of its existence, whether it was Chuck D imploring people to "Fight The Power" or Eminem spilling his guts about all the nasty stuff he fantasized about doing to his ex-wife. Sure, that's not all of what rap music is or can be, but that's ultimately where it comes from. And when rap music is neutered... boy, it's pretty terrible.

This younger generation is really screwed up. Getting their feelings hurt by every passing cloud. I'unno where it started but it needs to stop.
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Old 03-05-2021, 09:18 AM   #178
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I am admittedly not much of a fan of his, but that's pretty stupid.

Rap music by definition is very much about anger. Some of that's political, some of it's domestic, but it's rooted in feelings of dissatisfaction and rage. That's like the entire point of its existence, whether it was Chuck D imploring people to "Fight The Power" or Eminem spilling his guts about all the nasty stuff he fantasized about doing to his ex-wife. Sure, that's not all of what rap music is or can be, but that's ultimately where it comes from. And when rap music is neutered... boy, it's pretty terrible.

This younger generation is really screwed up. Getting their feelings hurt by every passing cloud. I'unno where it started but it needs to stop.
Now I want to hear a hardcore gangsta rap about an old guy rappin bout passing clouds and kids not getting the **** off his lawn.
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Old 03-05-2021, 09:22 AM   #179
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I have not heard ALL of Madchild's most recent catalog, as he seems to put out a new song every week or so. He's rather old and disgruntled, though, so I'm willing to bet he's at least touched on some of these things at least once.
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Old 03-05-2021, 06:32 PM   #180
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Remember, no matter how hard one tries to appease the new cultural orthodoxy, it's never enough:
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It is also worthy to note that representation and social commentary aren't the only areas of exploration afforded to a Black Superman, as all aspects of Black culture could and should be utilized to produce a full-bodied character not limited to trite tropes. How do his notions of serving Earth change when raised as a Black man in a systemically racist country? Does he see vigilantes as a welcome alternative to perpetual over-policing, or does he forsake his community to become a hero for every man (aka white men)? These are the questions a non-marginalized hero could never explore onscreen, and should be the driving force of Superman's internal narrative, not overdone stereotypes. (The only trope I will tolerate is a short scene where Superman jokes that he can mask his identity with a simple pair of glasses because all Black people look the same, followed by a wink from a random Daily Planet security guard in on the joke.)

The premise of a Black Superman fighting a canon villain to save society without mention of his thoughts on whether this society is worth saving would fail on all fronts of the story. If DC wants a simple story, stick with a simple character: a white man who has no reservations about serving his country, because when he really thinks about it, the country has always done the same for him.
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