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Old 04-25-2019, 01:20 PM   #341
Vegita-San
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'retired' or pushed out, due to not towing the new line of wokeness?

seeing how these people operate , guess which one i'm betting?
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Old 04-25-2019, 01:42 PM   #342
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Originally Posted by AquaParade View Post
Tobey Maguire is my favorite Spider-Man.
It could partially be that he was my first on-screen Spider-Man/nostalgia, but I think it's also that him and Sam Raimi truly sold to me how messed up this guy's life was. Between the script, directing, and Tobey's acting, I got the impression that this guy was hoping a bus would hit him as he crossed the street, so seeing him suit up and "fly" above it all, just felt really cathartic to me. So, yeah, it can be hard to separate Tobey's performance from the directing, screenwriting, and the fantastic score, which all propel him upwards, but that's how I generally feel about it.

Andrew Garfield was satisfactory to me. Not much I can say about his performance, other then I think he did pretty well with the angle he was given, but there is a lot of variables to unpack when discussing that movie.

Tom Holland, I like. Definitely happy with his casting so far, but I've yet to fall in love with his performance, the way I did with Tobey's. Some of his standout scenes for me have been his initial meeting with Tony, in Civil War, as well as his death(?) scene in Infinity War. Seems like he needs more chances like those to flex his muscles. Homecoming is a great, fun-filled movie, but doesn't really pull on the heartstrings all that much. I'd be curious to hear what sold you on his performance though.
For me, Garfield just came off as smug and unlikable. Too cocky. A Jason Todd instead of a Dick Grayson, if you will. I turned it off the first movie at about the first Lizard fight, I think...

And also, I could never buy him as a high-schooler. Dude's way too old. Same for Maguire. Holland LOOKS and FEELS like a high-schooler. That, for me, is key. If you're gonna tell a movie about a high-schooler but you can't convince me the kid is a high-schooler, I check out.

If the Amazing movies had taken place, say, in college instead of high-school, and with a different actor, I think I'd have been fine with them. (Well, the first one... not the clusterfvck of a sequel.)

I should try and watch the Maguire movies again, though. Been a long time since I gave them a fair shot.
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Old 04-25-2019, 01:51 PM   #343
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Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy View Post
For me, Garfield just came off as smug and unlikable. Too cocky. A Jason Todd instead of a Dick Grayson, if you will. I turned it off the first movie at about the first Lizard fight, I think...
Kind of has that look/way about him. What is it they say? "They look like someone that asks to speak to the manager a lot."

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Originally Posted by Vegita-San View Post
'retired' or pushed out, due to not towing the new line of wokeness?

seeing how these people operate , guess which one i'm betting?
Yeah, when you think about it... all the spectacle and culmination stuff aside... yeah, "Endgame" pretty must "Last Jedi"s the whole shebang, doesn't it?
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Old 04-25-2019, 01:56 PM   #344
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'retired' or pushed out, due to not towing the new line of wokeness?

seeing how these people operate , guess which one i'm betting?
You're absolutely wrong if you think they are being pushed out. No offense, but that's a terrible take on the situation. Who in their right mind would need to be pushed out after working on such films? Did you see Joss Whedon's face during the Age of Ultron press tour? Dude was broken. The Russo's can look forward to a huge vacation and tons of money in their bank account.

These guys have made more money than anyone for the studio, and their films are fan-favorites. Money talks, even over politics, in Hollywood.

And yeah, I've been keeping up with all the Russo Bro's interviews. They've essentially clarified that they do want to take a break, after years of tirelessly working on MCU films, but they keep mentioning Secret Wars, partly in jest (self-admitted, look it up), because it's the only thing they can think of that would top what they've already done, when it comes to scale.
They said the other day, that they are potentially open to returning for a story of much less scope, if the concept speaks to them. I've heard them mention Wolverine and X-Men as potential interests as well.

My take:

- They are completely broken at the moment from making these two epic films. They need a break

- They are looking forward to working on their next, indie-level film, "Cherry", featuring Tom Holland

- They truly enjoy working with Marvel and would like to return. But here's the thing: these guys are in love with Star Wars, so my prediction is that they wait it out a bit and see if they get an offer to direct a future Star Wars film. If not, they return to Marvel a few years from now.

Gotta say, I respect everyone's opinion here, but some of you are totally lost in the "SJW politics" and letting it infest your each and every opinion. Seems quite paranoid, even coming from someone who thinks the "political correctness" and "outrage culture" is 100%, completely out of hand. Doesn't mean every little thing revolves around that.
You've heard of the "boy who cried wolf", right? Your stance will be more effective if you don't attempt to apply it to each and everything you come across. It's like some people just want to "spam" their opinion and see where it sticks.

Last edited by AquaParade; 04-25-2019 at 02:28 PM.
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Old 04-25-2019, 02:29 PM   #345
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You're absolutely wrong if you think they are being pushed out.
How are they not?

Spoiler:
Captain America has been rendered an old man, Tony Stark has been killed off, Thor has been regressed to a fat brute who gives his whole kingdom over to some woman he just met one movie ago so he can go and jerk off with the GotG, Black Widow has been killed off, Hulk has been rendered less powerful and may be handicapped now, Hawkeye has become murderous and is apparently going to "pass the torch" to his daughter in the Disney+ show...

... basically, yeah. They've arranged the old guard pieces in such a way that they're not really usable anymore. Not in the way they've been. I don't think this was by coincidence, this was by design.
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Old 04-25-2019, 02:35 PM   #346
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Can I get two spoilers, please?

1. Does Captain Marvel deliver the final blow to Thanos (or prove herself better than the OG Avengers in some defining way)?

2. Does Iron Man 3 get referenced, and to what extent?

I don't want the movie spoiled, or the fates of characters spoiled. Thanks guys.
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Old 04-25-2019, 03:02 PM   #347
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Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy View Post
Can I get two spoilers, please?

1. Does Captain Marvel deliver the final blow to Thanos (or prove herself better than the OG Avengers in some defining way)?
Mercifully no

Quote:
2. Does Iron Man 3 get referenced, and to what extent?
Yes, towards the end
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Old 04-25-2019, 03:07 PM   #348
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Yes, towards the end
Is it the damn kid from Iron Man 3?
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Old 04-25-2019, 03:12 PM   #349
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Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy View Post
Is it the damn kid from Iron Man 3?
You didn't want spoiled but since you asked

Spoiler:
Yes. All grown up
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Old 04-25-2019, 03:22 PM   #350
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You didn't want spoiled but since you asked

Spoiler:
Yes. All grown up
DAMMIT. I hated that kid.
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Old 04-25-2019, 03:24 PM   #351
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So about the results, there has to be at least three different timelines aside from the main one, right? Something like this:

Spoiler:
  1. One in which Loki escapes with the Tesseract and isn't brought to jail, also Cap prematurely knows Bucky is alive and Hydra thinks he's on their side.
  2. One in which Mjolnir vanishes midway through Thor 2 (and maybe Thor's mom survives).
  3. One in which Gamora, Nebula and Thanos vanish right before the events of GotG really kick in and the movie basically didn't happen.

So like Loki, Gamora, Thanos, Black Widow and Vision may all remain dead in the main timeline but they should all technically still be alive in at least one timeline each. I don't remember seeing Past Gamora at the funeral or joining up with the Guardians but she didn't get erased right? She could effectively replace her main timeline counterpart. Not to mention how this means alternate timeline counterparts of Ego, Killmonger and other characters who died could potentially still be around in alternate timelines.

Then there's the question about Old Steve, shouldn't he be in another timeline?
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Old 04-25-2019, 03:32 PM   #352
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Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy View Post
1. Does Captain Marvel deliver the final blow to Thanos (or prove herself better than the OG Avengers in some defining way)?
The way I'm reading it, though... kind of yes, on the latter?

Spoiler:
Thanos full-on head butts her and it doesn't even phase her.
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Old 04-25-2019, 04:13 PM   #353
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Originally Posted by Vegita-San View Post
'retired' or pushed out, due to not towing the new line of wokeness?

seeing how these people operate , guess which one i'm betting?
I don't know the personal politics or the Russo brothers but they've never spoken out against this and nothing about their movies indicates they don't two "the line of wokeness".

Corporations are not woke and don't care if anyone working for them is either. Let's not pretend that for a while the MCU in particular didn't have a hard right pro-Trump guy that unashamedly shut down talk of female or non white led the movies.

I have little doubt that many working at Disney particularly in creative departments have liberal leanings but all the company really cares about is profit, that's their only agenda and all their decisions are based on that. If they are pushing increased diversity it's because strong market research is telling them that's were the movie going culture is heading. They wouldn't hesitate to go in the opposite direction if they felt that was going to do better.

Big companies don't throw mass amounts of money at projects they "know" wont make money to make a political point, it's because they strongly feel it will and Disney and the MCU's track record of this is pretty good.

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How are they not?

Spoiler:
Captain America has been rendered an old man, Tony Stark has been killed off, Thor has been regressed to a fat brute who gives his whole kingdom over to some woman he just met one movie ago so he can go and jerk off with the GotG, Black Widow has been killed off, Hulk has been rendered less powerful and may be handicapped now, Hawkeye has become murderous and is apparently going to "pass the torch" to his daughter in the Disney+ show...

... basically, yeah. They've arranged the old guard pieces in such a way that they're not really usable anymore. Not in the way they've been. I don't think this was by coincidence, this was by design.
I don't see how any of the examples you give would mean the Russos would feel pushed out. Unless you've any evidence they would only work on projects with the old guard characters.

Many of the OG movie Avengers have wanted to move on for a while now. The fact that the movie puts their characters in a position were that can happen is nothing more of a sign of that.

Due to an injury I'll be house bound for a while so I haven't seen the movie and wont for a while so I'm just working with spoilers I've read online so correct me if I'm getting details wrong but...

Spoiler:
none of the alterations they've made to the characters renders them unusable should they ever change their mind and come back for another go around in the future.

Thor could easily get in shape again. As for leaving Asgard in the care of Valkerie (who else alive is there suitable to leave in charge) well the arc of the Thor movies was about him not wanting to be a king and in the comics every future version which shows him as king of Asgard shows him unhappy. You could very reasonably argue it leaves him in a more interesting place with the Guardians.

A magic rock could make Steve young again or a second dose of the super soldier serum or the infinity formula or anything.

Likewise there's any number of ways to get Tony back. Natasha is basically in the soul stone and could be brought back easily. If they actually use Adam Warlock that could well be Guardians 3.

As for Hawkeye...well the movie version has never been that interesting and I can't speak for Endgame version but I'd be willing to see where it goes and again each of the recent Hawkeye series have shown him alongside Kate Bishop as partners. Something like that will be what their series is about.

Saying these characters are unusable shows a big lack of imagination
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Old 04-25-2019, 04:20 PM   #354
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I don't see how any of the examples you give would mean the Russos would feel pushed out.
Oh. I thought we were talking about why the old Avengers' actors would feel pushed out.
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Old 04-25-2019, 05:16 PM   #355
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I guess we will have to wait and see what happens next with the MCU after Spider-Man Far From Home, but here's what I wish they would have done with the ending of Endgame and the MCU movies that come after it.

Spoiler:
Since they wanted this to be the "end" of the Infinity Saga and the MCU as we know it now (22 films), why couldn't they just wrap it all up in Endgame (preferably without killing Black Widow + Iron Man and making the other four original Avengers pretty much useless)? They could have just beaten Thanos, show that all the heroes were ok, 'The End'. Then start all over with 'New MCU' with the next movie. The comics relaunch all the time, ignoring what came before it, after all.


Anyway, just my opinion, maybe I'm the only one that isn't really satisfied with the ending.
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Old 04-25-2019, 05:53 PM   #356
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^^^

Spoiler:
Marvel has never done a proper reboot of their comics continuity and the fact that it hasn't I would argue is part of their appeal over the distinguished competition.

We've still got Black Panther 2, Captain Marvel 2, Spider-Man 2, Guardians 3 which are all huge franchises. Rebooting the movie continuity (and getting new versions of Steve, Tony and Odinson which I presume is what you are suggesting) would mean losing all of those which is a ridiculous.

Plus necessity is the mother of all invention. The fact that Marvel could not use it's most famous brands in their movies meant they had to make these lesser known characters work which they did in spades. Not being able to lean on Cap, Iron Man and Thor I would argue will have a similar effect.

Also they are not unusable. Old man Steve Rogers could be the mentor to a new generation of heroes. If Chris Evans wants to come back one day they could just de-age him.

Same with Stark there is any number of ways to bring the character back.

Thor is more usable than ever imo. It's strongly hinted he'll be part of the Guardians of the Galaxy franchise and he could easily get in the shape. Not that him being out of shape made a difference to his effectiveness on the battlefield according to what I've read.
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Old 04-25-2019, 06:25 PM   #357
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Spoiler:
I will find it difficult to take Tony Stark's self sacrifice death seriously since he already did that in the first Avengers, it's like when they killed Splinter the second time in 2012, sure this time it was real but since they had already done the storyline and brought him back it just didn't have the same pull the second time around
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Old 04-25-2019, 11:03 PM   #358
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How are they not?

Spoiler:
Captain America has been rendered an old man, Tony Stark has been killed off, Thor has been regressed to a fat brute who gives his whole kingdom over to some woman he just met one movie ago so he can go and jerk off with the GotG, Black Widow has been killed off, Hulk has been rendered less powerful and may be handicapped now, Hawkeye has become murderous and is apparently going to "pass the torch" to his daughter in the Disney+ show...

... basically, yeah. They've arranged the old guard pieces in such a way that they're not really usable anymore. Not in the way they've been. I don't think this was by coincidence, this was by design.
Wait, I thought we were discussing the idea of the Russo’s being pushed out of Marvel.
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Old 04-25-2019, 11:44 PM   #359
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Originally Posted by Galactus View Post
Let's not pretend that for a while the MCU in particular didn't have a hard right pro-Trump guy that unashamedly shut down talk of female or non white led the movies.[/SPOILER]
Who was that?
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Old 04-26-2019, 12:03 AM   #360
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Spoiler:
If I had to speculate... Avengers 4 picks up 5 years after Infinity War. The surviving Avengers and Captain Marvel lead a last ditch effort to take out Thanos and probably even win, but it's bittersweet because half the people are still dead. Like, they Thanos him but blow up the Gauntlet or something, too. They meet up with Ant-Man, who finally frees himself from the Quantum Realm. A plan is hatched to go back in time and give their younger selves the tools to stop Thanos during his attack. A lot of revisiting the Avengers' greatest hits as they plant various seeds in different old movies to where when Thanos shows up in Wakanda, it plays out differently and he loses. Somewhere along the line the 5 year older Avengers sacrifice themselves and remove themselves from the equation. Old Tony dies, Young Tony retires in the end.
Well, I got some of it right...
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