TMNT for MUGEN, what's all available?

[Ninjinister]

Originally Posted by Seurat

Is using nunchucks as propellers silly, unrealistic, and a violation of all known laws of physics? Yes, yes it is.

Nail on the head brotha. This is the exact reason I got roasted on a spit for mentioning it.

But Mikey's done it at least thrice before; if nothing else, allowing him to do so again pays homage to the previous games.

And this was my reasoning for inclusion.

[dcat]

Originally Posted by The Ninjinister

This move seems to be a staple of Leo's. Would be nice to see it in some capacity.

Thanks for the suggestion. This one appears in almost every old-gen videogame incarnation of Leonardo, I'll definitely be sure to include this move.

Originally Posted by Seurat

Leo: Being Mr. Calm-Cool-and-Collected, Leo's always been great at meditation. I could see him calmly rising into the air, eyes closed in a brief trance, before delivering a single, precise, light-speed blow. This could be the stealthy, speedy ninja attack that is imperceptible to the eye; all the gamer sees is Leo's meditative state, a flash, and Leo standing behind his dazed and damaged opponent.

Thanks for the supermove ideas Seurat. I'm really liking your suggestion for Leonardo dealing a single split-second attack... I'll get started on spriting & implementing these techniques in the character and post my results as soon as I've gotten Leo a bit more polished. Thanks, please keep posting super/special/normal move suggestions as well as winpose & introduction suggestions they're highly appreciated.

[oldmanwinters]

Hey, dcat, one thing I've noticed is that while your TMNT characters have great aggressiveness in their CPU fights, they seem to get routinely owned by characters such as ScruffyDragon's DCvsMarvel projects. Now, I know it makes sense that mutant turtles wouldn't be able to hold their own in a REAL fight with superheroes, but have you considered slightly upping their attack powers to make them more of a threat? If nothing else, I think their specials could benefit from doing heavier damage.

[dcat]

Originally Posted by oldmanwinters

Hey, dcat, one thing I've noticed is that while your TMNT characters have great aggressiveness in their CPU fights, they seem to get routinely owned by characters such as ScruffyDragon's DCvsMarvel projects. Now, I know it makes sense that mutant turtles wouldn't be able to hold their own in a REAL fight with superheroes, but have you considered slightly upping their attack powers to make them more of a threat? If nothing else, I think their specials could benefit from doing heavier damage.

Increasing the overall damage to their attacks isn't the solution to this issue- that's what too often creators will do, with the resulting product being a very cheap/broken character. What you want to have is for the TMNT to fight smarter this is accomplished through the inclusion of a custom coded AI- (custom AI's will acknowledge common openings in their opponents giving them a leg up on both human and cpu controlled characters) as it stands none of the characters I've released have any custom AI and they just use the basic CPU one included in the mugen engine. Unfortunately I don't know how to code AI and I don't see myself figuring that out anytime soon. Only thing we can hope for is that some other coder publicly releases AI patches for them that are well coded (not cheap or impossible to defeat yet still providing some challenge)

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by dcat

Increasing the overall damage to their attacks isn't the solution to this issue- that's what too often creators will do, with the resulting product being a very cheap/broken character. What you want to have is for the TMNT to fight smarter this is accomplished through the inclusion of a custom coded AI- (custom AI's will acknowledge common openings in their opponents giving them a leg up on both human and cpu controlled characters) as it stands none of the characters I've released have any custom AI and they just use the basic CPU one included in the mugen engine. Unfortunately I don't know how to code AI and I don't see myself figuring that out anytime soon. Only thing we can hope for is that some other coder publicly releases AI patches for them that are well coded (not cheap or impossible to defeat yet still providing some challenge)

Wow, that's really interesting since I've always wondered why some Mugen characters just go to town on offense and other characters just stand around watching. And, yeah, I know what you mean about those unbalanced characters. I've tried fiddling around with a few Mugen characters and have never been able to see what makes the AI better. I really hope you're able to crack the code one day!

[Seurat]

Originally Posted by dcat

Thanks for the suggestion. This one appears in almost
Thanks for the supermove ideas Seurat. I'm really liking your suggestion for Leonardo dealing a single split-second attack... I'll get started on spriting & implementing these techniques in the character and post my results as soon as I've gotten Leo a bit more polished. Thanks, please keep posting super/special/normal move suggestions as well as winpose & introduction suggestions they're highly appreciated.

No problem! I'm glad you appreciate them. As far as my ideas, here's what I'm thinking as far as "winposes":

Leo: A serious man - er, turtle - of honor, there's really only two things that Leonardo would do after defeating an opponent: either make some dramatic, serious pose (Perhaps sheathing his weapon, standing with legs apart, and gazing at his fallen foe), or bow respectfully (As any honorable martial artist would after defeating a worthy opponent).

Don: I'd say that Donatello would likely give his bo a little spin, then strike a pose in which he faces the viewer, open palm thrust toward the viewer, his other hand holding the bo at a downward angle.

Raph: Being a bit showoff-y, Raphael would likely show off a few kicks and/or punches as if to say, "Oh yeah... I whooped your shell and I've STILL got energy to fight!"

Mikey: Let's face it... Michelangelo has but one word appropriate enough to describe a truly awesome win... All together now, folks: "COWABUNGA!!!" (Feel free to use the sprites used at the end of a Turtles in Time level for this one)

[dcat]

Originally Posted by Seurat

No problem! I'm glad you appreciate them. As far as my ideas, here's what I'm thinking as far as "winposes":

Leo: A serious man - er, turtle - of honor, there's really only two things that Leonardo would do after defeating an opponent: either make some dramatic, serious pose (Perhaps sheathing his weapon, standing with legs apart, and gazing at his fallen foe), or bow respectfully (As any honorable martial artist would after defeating a worthy opponent).

Don: I'd say that Donatello would likely give his bo a little spin, then strike a pose in which he faces the viewer, open palm thrust toward the viewer, his other hand holding the bo at a downward angle.

Raph: Being a bit showoff-y, Raphael would likely show off a few kicks and/or punches as if to say, "Oh yeah... I whooped your shell and I've STILL got energy to fight!"

Mikey: Let's face it... Michelangelo has but one word appropriate enough to describe a truly awesome win... All together now, folks: "COWABUNGA!!!" (Feel free to use the sprites used at the end of a Turtles in Time level for this one)

WOW. Seems like you're actually describing the current winposes in each of my characters Seurat. I kid you not, each one of the turtles i've created have each of these respective winposes (there were striking similarities in the air super moves you posted as well, save for Donatello & Leo's), I hate to put you on the spot but you got any more ideas?

[oldmanwinters]

Hey, dcat, I've been fiddling with creating a character and have been trying to figure out the trick to creating multiple win poses. Is there a way that determines which win poses show up more often than others (i.e., based on life remaining, time remaining, probability, random?)

Originally Posted by dcat

I hate to put you on the spot but you got any more ideas?

I'd like to see various win poses that incorporate the Turtle Blimp, Turtle Van, Splinter, and April. I'm guessing those sprites shouldn't be too hard to find. Now a Casey Jones cameo might be a bit tougher to pull off, unless you try the Genny TF sprites.

[Seurat]

Originally Posted by dcat

WOW. Seems like you're actually describing the current winposes in each of my characters Seurat. I kid you not, each one of the turtles i've created have each of these respective winposes (there were striking similarities in the air super moves you posted as well, save for Donatello & Leo's), I hate to put you on the spot but you got any more ideas?

Really? To quote Michelangelo in Secret of the Ooze, "Spookular!"

Okay, I've been thinking about a few good entrances, and here's what I've got:

Leo: Leo's entrance wouldn't be anything terribly flashy... most likely he'd just leap in, possibly doing a midair backflip while doing so. A simple ninja move... that's Leo for ya'.

Don: I can see Donatello being lowered down on a rope or a rope ladder (Possibly from the Turtle Blimp...?) before he jumps off and takes out his bo.

Raph: As my favorite continuity of TMNT is the original cartoon (And Raph is my favorite of the OT Turtles), I'd recommend doing a little homage to the cartoon's first intro. Raphael comes out, throws a pizza at the screen, and as it falls away, it reveals he's eating a slice of pizza that's impaled on his sai, just like in the opening to the cartoon, before he tosses the slice aside.

Mikey: To be honest, I already liked the "You're no match for Michelangelo!" opening you already gave him. Stick with it, man.

By the way, just a thought... any chance of giving one of the turtles (Most likely Leo) a throwing-star attack? It'd make for a nice projectile attack.

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by Seurat

By the way, just a thought... any chance of giving one of the turtles (Most likely Leo) a throwing-star attack? It'd make for a nice projectile attack.

Projectile attacks would be most welcome! Great idea!

[dcat]

Thanks for the suggestions, I'm still not too convinced when it comes to projectile attacks, if I do add any I feel lik it should be one of those moves that all of the brothers get or none of the brothers get. I'll think about it...

Here's a new video that displays the Headcrush special move & a Level 3 Super called Final Slash



I wanted headcrush to be similar to Ken the Eagle from TvC's Eagle Rush special. I was wondering should i still include the standard divekick in Leonardo if he has this move or would that be redundant? Also should I keep divekick and have headcrush serve as the EX divekick? feedback's appreciated.

Final Slash was a move that I arrived at thanks to suggestions from Seurat
-Also disregard the Raph sprites that Leo uses during the start-up of Final Slash, those are just placeholders.
-What else could I add to this move to make it more visually appealing (note I'm not going for too much over the top flashiness, just a bit more polish)

As always, feedback & impressions are appreciated

[Seurat]

It's PERFECT. As a fan of the OT and the games based on it, I love that graphic with Leo jumping at the screen and the slashing blue graphic from the games/OT intro. I replayed that Final Slash a few times just because it looks so awesome. Excellent work, man.

I understand your issue with the Shuriken as an "all or nothing" thing, although I could see only Donatello using them (Provided that they are, of course, "exploding throwing stars", to make a Turtles Forever reference ).

I'd like to give a few more suggestions, but first I have some questions that'd help me:
- You made a "battle intro" that was specific to Raph and Leo duking it out, taken from the movie TMNT. Are you capable of putting "custom pairing battle intros" like that actually in the game, or was that shown more for pure fun and to show off your animating prowess? Because if you CAN put "custom pairing battle intros" in the actual game, I could think of a few more...
- Can you "taunt" in Mugen games?
- Are you planning on making any other TMNT characters besides the four Turtles? (I can see how the availability of existing sprites could make this difficult for anyone but the Turtles and villains)
- I noticed you used OT voice clips for Mike, but 2k3 clips for all the other Turtles. Is there any specific reason for this? Availability of voice clips? Personal preference?
- In terms of the characters' move lists, are there any holes you still need filled in (Example: Donatello needing another "special side attack" or Raph needing a "basic jump attack")?

Anyhoo, keep up the good work! You are an artist, man. Rock on.

[dcat]

1. YES, character intros that are specific to two specifically matched opponents are possible in MUGEN
2. YES you can taunt in the MUGEN engine by using the start (ENTER) button
(I recommend you download MUGEN for yourself & test out my characters if you wanna see more firsthand evidence of their capabilities thus far.)
3. The next character I plan on creating was either going to be the Shredder, then possibly Super Krang
4. I prefer Townsend Coleman for Michelangelo, he established the canonical Michelangelo "surfer dude" inflection & his lasting contribution to that Turtle's overall legacy & depiction cannot be ignored.
Raphael's voice seems to be exemplified by his raspier, stereotypical New Yorker accent- its also these set of voice clips that have the more rough & tumble themes and angstier, more pugnacious nature to Raphael that I prefer to his Old Toon 4th-wall breaking, wisecracking incarnation. Donatello has a blend of both OT and 2k3 series when it comes to the voice clips Leonardo will use a blend of both Old Toon and 2k3 voice, predominantly he'll use the 2k3 voice though. I try to blend the different voices together towards a similar pitch so that the character feels more unified than 2 noticeably different voice sources being flung together (I did this with Michelangelo and Donatello & many people were none the wiser).
5. Well I planned on having the Cyclone Spin/Roto Cutter as Leonardo's QCF + Punch super for the ground. I still need a QCF + Kick super for the ground and for the air when it comes to him.

[Seurat]

Okay, that helps quite a bit. I doubt I'll download MUGEN, though; I've got too much stuff on my comp already. Perhaps someday, though...

Anyhoo, here's a few ideas:

1. Custom Pairing Battle Intros: I'm sure there are loads of amusing comments that could be used for a pairing between Raph and Mike, as the two of them have always made fun of each other. To choose one off the top of my head would be impossible, as one could easily fill a library with all the cracks they've had at each other's expense. I also think it'd be funny if characters acted surprised in the event of a "Mirror match", perhaps with a "!?" over each character's head as he realized he was fighting an exact copy of himself. Perhaps a "What the shell?!" voice clip could add to such a situation.

2. Taunts: Oooh, man... once again, so much to choose from... here's what I'm thinking...

Leo: I can imagine Leo thrusting a sword forward and pointing at his foe as if he were leading a charge, or perhaps as if to say, "You're MINE!" Whether a voice clip is really needed for this, I'm not really sure... but I think there's a buhmillion tough guy dramatic clips of him saying something about honor or victory or family or something else along those lines.

Don: Perhaps that clip of Donatello from the first 2K3 game saying "Let's play stickball... I have the stick, you be the ball!" would be less annoying as a taunt, rather than spoken with every other attack like in the aforementioned game.

Raph: If you're going with the 2K3, Wolverine-ish Raph rather than the OT, Chandler-esque Raph (The OT one is my favorite, but for the sake of a fighting game that'll need a lot of grunts and "Hi-ya!"'s, I can understand the choice you made easily), perhaps his rage is best summed up as a simple roar... But alternately, I would recommend a clip of him making a comment that he'd made to Hun in the first season of the 2K3 series, one that is the epitome of taunt-itude: "Yo momma."

Mikey: I'd take the classic Turtles in Time "Pizza Time!" sprite, but replace the audio with Mike saying "Pizza Time!" from the first episode of the OT series.

(BTW, I doubt I'll download MUGEN in the near future; I've got too much stuff on my comp already, and I've had problems with it as well, so I've been extra-cautious and conservative about what I download/put/keep on this thing. Maybe someday, though... Until then, I'm happy to help you make a game that lots of other MUGEN players and Turtle fans will enjoy. )

3. Ooh, coolness! Which Shredder sprite will you be using? Original arcade Shredder? Turtles in Time Lightsaber-wielding Shredder? Or Turtles in Time for the SNES Super-Shredder? And what voices will you be using? Because I must confess, I can think of no greater taunt/opening than classic Shredder saying his infamous line: "Tonight I dine on Turtle soup!"

4. Excellent job, man... I didn't notice the voice tweaking! It's cool that you can edit voices as well as sprite graphics like that.

5. If I'm not mistaken, "QCF" stands for "Quick Center Forward", as in an attack that's quick and straight forward, as opposed to forward and angled, correct (My forte is mainly platformers and action games; not so much with fighters aside from Smash Bros. I confess to the sin of "button-mashing" there, which is another reason I don't have MUGEN.)? Hmm... let's see... As far as a QCF Kick for the ground, how about this: Leo plants his swords in the ground, but continues to hold the handles. In a gymnastic move, he uses the firmly-planted swords to push himself up and deliver a two-footed kick to his opponent. Not sure if that would be better as a "strong" rather than "quick" attack, but it may depend on how it looks when animated. That's all I have for now... hope that helps!

[Ninjinister]

QCF is actually Quarter Circle Forward, so in other words, this motion:

[oldmanwinters]

dcat, that Leo finishing move is just AWESOME!!! As far as adding more omphf, I can't think of anything. I suppose the cheap way to suggest more power is to add a gush of red blood or something, but I think it looks just fine as it is and I love the delayed impact effects on Raph.

I really like the way you've been messing audio clips and I agree your interpretation is about the best that could be expected in the Mugen format.

[Ninjinister]

Yeah, I could NOT have thought of anything cooler for a move. It's just amazing. Like Seurat, I had to back up and watch it multiple times.

[gce_black]

wats up dcat. havent been a registered member 4 long but i downloaded all 3 your TMNT characters u released so far and think dey kick ass and take names, (i go bak wit tha turtles as far as age 1 and im 20), but i thought maybe i could help u out wit a QCF kick super. wat if u made leo do a sequence of quick shadow kick combinations (maybe 10???), then a kick that launches the opponent into tha air, and top it off with 4 simultaneous dive kicks from all 4 diagonal directions of the oppopent.......watcha think bout dat?

[dcat]

It's been a while since i've posted here. Just wanted to let you guys know I'm still working on completing Leonardo as well as the other turtle brothers for MUGEN. The reason things are taking so long is that I'm updating all of the previous characters with new moves and fixed animations in addition to completing Leonardo.

Raph's new jumping Medium Punch


I've sprited and coded Leonardo's classic Roto Cutter Super Attack. Here's the video:



I've also added a new move called Katana Uppercut.
This move is a Special Attack that can be performed on the ground as well as in the air, video:


Yesterday I was hard at work again and now Leonardo has his Tornado Spin Kick move from Tournament Fighters (NES).


But as it stands, the move feels a bit lackluster- its only 4 consecutive kicks with the final hit knocking the opponent back. Do you guys have any suggestions as to how I could punch up this move since its intended to be his second Super Attack? I'll do my best to get these guys out to the public as soon as they're ready.

[Ninjinister]

My God I've missed your work.

The Quadspin Kick... well... it could move forward at an incredible speed, instead of being stationary.