1987 and 2012 crossover!

[Utrommaniac]

So, with the next IDW issue being released on the 23rd, this on the 27th, and the Deviations issue after that...the end of March is going to be a pretty fun time for TMNT stuff.

[SKX31]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Yeah, I was thinking that too. Less so the Nick Turts, whose simple line design works with 2-D as well as 3-D, but...wow the OT designs are jarring.

I like them when they get to the 3-D world, until I get to their eyes. There's something unsettling about their eyes, and I can't put my finger on what.

I'm also getting that, but I think it's because they look plastered on their bandanas. Especially on 87 Don, but that might be the angle that makes it more apparent / throws me off. Also, I'm not super-sold out on how the eyebrows look in 3D, but that's just me.

And really, the 87 production crew had absolutely no way of knowing, at the time, that their creations were going to be converted into 3D by a much later crew. Hell, 3D animation was a bit off the mainstream and still at the experimental phase at the time (warning, linked vid is long). Some attempts had been made, but 3D only started to truly break into the mainstream with stuff like Toy Story and Beast Wars - a decade-ish off at that point.

As the dinosaur mini-film (or whatever, don't know which term to use) proved, however, the Nick crew have shown that their models can be done both ways.

[Metalwolf]

Originally Posted by Allio

going by the one scene we have seen of their first interactions, the 87 turtles don't seem too surprised.

Ah. I wasn't able to watch the video since I'm on a library computer and don't have any headphones. Are you sure it might not be simply because they battled Tigerclaw previously and thus might have learned something (either through his comments during battle or through 87!Donnie's research) that he came from another dimension with it's own Turtles? After fighting somebody like that, who appeared just how he did, you know Donnie's gonna do some snooping and machine fiddling to find out where that guy came from.

Originally Posted by Allio

I couldn't really care less. I am so burned out on 87 stuff, I just can't care. if it was something like Nick meets Mirage, then we can talk.

I think Nick is wanking that show hard just so it can draw in (and please) the hardcore 87 fans. It wouldn't be so bad if Nick homaged it once or twice, but even I (an 87 fan myself) would want some variety after that. I have a feeling that this won't even be the last one, and that in a year's time there will be another 80's crossover, and then another one every season thereafter.

[Konchadunga]

Originally Posted by TurtleGuy

In fairness, after season 3 the Turtles did go around in public more often and generally stopped wearing disguises(something I admittedly forgot about during "Turtles Forever"). Hell, they were even able to get jobs in "Splinter Vanishes". Besides, that joke annoyed me the least in the movie.

As long as they aren't portrayed as interchangeable idiots, I'll be happy.

In slight defense of Turtles Forever, it wasn't the first adaptation to apply the memetic characteristics of Fred Wolf Michelangelo to all four turtles; turning them all into pizza-obsessed, never-serious, surfer-lingoed goofballs. The original live-action movies were also pretty guilty of that, and in a way they were even more irritating than TF, since they had villains who were written dead-serious but nonetheless paused their antics to allow the Turtles to goof-off for long periods.

So arguably, the TF writers were trying to give viewers a lot of what they wanted to see. However, when you examine it in detail, it's just a badly-written movie even independent of how it wrote the Fred Wolf turtles. Part of it is that the 4Kids writers never really nailed comedy, and certainly condensing Fred Wolf goofiness into concentrated form on their Michelangelo just wound up really obnoxious a lot of the time, so obviously multiplying that by five would start to grate. But beyond that, the rules governing the movie are never consistent. One moment everyone from Fred Wolf's a hapless idiot who can't seem to accomplish anything of note, then the next somehow a technological feature in the Technodrome somehow Google-searches the whole 4Kids universe for Ch'rel and instantly warps him in from lightyears out. One moment Karai is belitting the technology of Dimension X, and then Ch'rel gets obsessed with mutagen as a vital tool. (He's an Utrom; how could he have not heard of it before?) One moment, Fred Wolf Donatello can make a dimensional warp stick out of a flashlight, and the next moment the lasers he built out of parts from Stockman's lab can't even harm mutants. One minute, Krang in his giant body can't offer any fight to Ch'rel, and the next moment somehow tiny explosive throwing stars hurt him.

All things considered, the movie's biggest *****lap might actually be to the 4Kids Turtles show, whose worldbuilding was at one point its big strength, and it just feels hypocritical to mock the stupidity of the Fred Wolf universe when you've applied that stupidity to your own universe in full-force. Ironically the same "swallow your pride, forget our plot is idiotic and just marvel at grandeur and laugh at gags" mentality that drove so much of Fred Wolf fandom is probably at the core of why most people still enjoy Turtles Forever, too, because it certainly isn't because it's high art.

[Mewzard]

The mention in the video IGN did about the Mirage World made me think of some sort of Take Two on Turtles Forever.

Either way, it should be interesting to see how it goes (if they do go Mirage, I hope they get a decent animation studio to do it, because jeez, that 80s-verse animation was not that good).

[Metalwolf]

@ Konchadunga-


{sarcasm on}But, but, but you can't bash the TF movie because it contains the 87 Turtles! What about your childhood, man? What about the nostalgia feels? Do you want the writers to think we don't caaaare about the 87 Turtles, do you? Because then we won't get another 87 moment crossover like this again, and I need to feel like a kid again dammit! The presence of the 87 Turtles erases everything bad about the movie. Erases, I tell you! It's perfection that can't be approached, it's awesomeness in even giving me a tiny glimpse of the holy 87 Turtles is like a balm to my highly fevered mind, surpassing everything simply because wank wank wank....

{Sarcasm off}

But yeah, I agree, the movie is a piece of crap. Nowadays they could do a better crossover, or even do a standalone 87 movie that focuses on them alone and that could make them look awesome and even better, but people want to hang onto the TF movie simply because it contains the 87 Turtles and a canon loophole that allows 87 fans to endlessly bring them back, even on newer TMNT shows. Otherwise people would dump that movie like a steaming turd.

[plastroncafe]

The version of the 87 Toon that you see in Turtles Forever is what the general population remembers of the 87 Toon.

The very same people who make it possible for fans of the 87 Toon to go on and on about how it's the definitive version of the characters. Like it or not, that's what the average person remembers about that cartoon.

To that effect, Turtles Forever got them dead to rights.
(I unironically love that movie)

[Aaronardo]

Oh, stop whining about Turtles Forever, ya ungrateful pukes. If you were to take one look at the show you so undoubtedly love today when it was in its most famous seasons, you wouldn't be complaining. You'd be complimenting this and TF for how accurate they are (though, okay, on occasion TF would go a tad too far. Still love that movie though).

What are you even complaining about? The storyboard we saw at SDCC clearly showed the OT Turtles had just held up well in a fight against the Nick Turtles just seconds before this scene. And you're complaining about one line of dialogue from RAPH, even though that's the first time since season 2 I've seen him actually in-character? Oh, please.

[CyberCubed]

Plus in Turtles Forever the OT Turtles still held their own against the Purple Dragons and Foot once they got free.

[TurtleGuy]

Originally Posted by Aaronardo

Oh, stop whining about Turtles Forever, ya ungrateful pukes. If you were to take one look at the show you so undoubtedly love today when it was in its most famous seasons, you wouldn't be complaining. You'd be complimenting this and TF for how accurate they are (though, okay, on occasion TF would go a tad too far. Still love that movie though).

Yeah, calling anyone who dare criticizes TF ungrateful pukes... That's gonna make them stop...



And for your information, I HAVE rewatched the series on DVD up to season 4 and I find the portrayal in TF was about as accurate as a Stormtrooper playing laser tag. So far the Nick crew has done a better job.

[Aaronardo]

Originally Posted by TurtleGuy

Yeah, calling anyone who dare criticizes TF ungrateful pukes... That's gonna make them stop...

Not trying to make them stop. Just treating them like the whiny p*ssies they're currently acting like.

Originally Posted by TurtleGuy

And for your information, I HAVE rewatched the series on DVD up to season 4 and I find the portrayal in TF was about as accurate as a Stormtrooper playing laser tag.

You're not going far enough. At least they actually used their weapons in seasons 1-2. Try when the show was in its prime in popularity (Seasons 3-6). The fight scenes are literally cartoon slapstick and they have no purpose for having a secret lair.

[TurtleGuy]

Originally Posted by Aaronardo

Not trying to make them stop. Just treating them like the whiny p*ssies they're currently acting like.



You're not going far enough. At least they actually used their weapons in seasons 1-2. Try when the show was in its prime in popularity (Seasons 3-6). The fight scenes are literally cartoon slapstick and they have no purpose for having a secret lair.

Not all the fight scenes were slapstick, just a majority of them. There were still a few occasional instances where they used their weapons in direct combat(albeit few and far between). This actually surprised me in certain episodes past season 2.

[Aaronardo]

Originally Posted by TurtleGuy

Not all the fight scenes were slapstick, just a majority of them. There were still a few occasional instances where they used their weapons in direct combat(albeit few and far between). This actually surprised me in certain episodes past season 2.

I remember one early Season 3 episode with an actually impressively animated (for the OT) between Leo and Shredder. It was looped a bunch of times, but you get the idea. That's still the only time I can really recall. There were at least three fights post-Season 2 that took place in a bubblegum factory.
You just can't make this sh*t up.

[Konchadunga]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

The version of the 87 Toon that you see in Turtles Forever is what the general population remembers of the 87 Toon.

The very same people who make it possible for fans of the 87 Toon to go on and on about how it's the definitive version of the characters. Like it or not, that's what the average person remembers about that cartoon.

To that effect, Turtles Forever got them dead to rights.
(I unironically love that movie)

In terms of pizza obsession? Yes. Surfer lingo? Yes. Fourth-wall breaking? Yes. But I can't think of any fans of Fred Wolf who wanted those turtles to be STUPID AND WIMPY. The bit with them resorting more to slapstick than actual fighting was accurate enough, but the Fred Wolf turtles would not be alternately oblivious to danger and breaking down and crying from it. (There's another contradiction.)

For that matter, this, too, can be tied to Michelangelo, the inspiration for all that wackiness, and how he's treated--I can't think of any fans declaring that they wanted him to become the idiot of the team; the way he has both in 2003 & 2012. It's possible for a good writer to write a comical and fun-loving character without making him stupid, obnoxious and a burden on his teammates.

[CyberCubed]

Yeah, no.

This thread needs to be locked now. We can discuss the crossover in the official info thread.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by Konchadunga

In terms of pizza obsession? Yes. Surfer lingo? Yes. Fourth-wall breaking? Yes. But I can't think of any fans of Fred Wolf who wanted those turtles to be STUPID AND WIMPY. The bit with them resorting more to slapstick than actual fighting was accurate enough, but the Fred Wolf turtles would not be alternately oblivious to danger and breaking down and crying from it. (There's another contradiction.)

For that matter, this, too, can be tied to Michelangelo, the inspiration for all that wackiness, and how he's treated--I can't think of any fans declaring that they wanted him to become the idiot of the team; the way he has both in 2003 & 2012. It's possible for a good writer to write a comical and fun-loving character without making him stupid, obnoxious and a burden on his teammates.

You're confusing fans of the 87 Toon with Everyone Else Who Watched It As A Kid. Fans of the 87 Toon might not remember the show that way, but everyone else does.

And yeah...Poor Mikey. Always the incompetent comic relief.
The good-guy version of Bebop and Rocksteady.

[ranger_scout]

Originally Posted by AlZarkovski

Spoiler:

http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/..._paint01-2.jpg

I cannot tell you all how much it means to me to once again hear four guys voice such iconic characters of my childhood all of these year later.

[sdp]

Everything from that clip is indeed copied from Turtles Forever and not only the ones mentioned before but I didn't see mention Raph pointing out OT Don's tech makes no sense and they're also visiting the Mirage turtles based on the IGN clip? wow. Now I would like to think the writers at least watched Turtles Forever, you know the first crossover movie and its only 90 minutes so I think its only a coincidence that the people in marketing chose to release this clip who know no better and the writers would have chosen something they knew was real. I mean I don't expect them to watch all of the OT or even a large chunk, just a few episodes to "know" the characters but if they couldn't even be arsed to watch a 90minute movie then we can expect this to be Turtles Forever but without the stakes or redeeming features.


As far as the clip, the 2D looks terrible and I hope its better on the show and it was just some bad angles. Their 30 second cameo in the second season while you could tell was flash was still a pretty good recreation. The 3D models look bad but I do think it has to do with the designs not lending themselves to 3D very well, mostly because I also think the Figuarts fiugres coming out soon also look odd. Still I've seen plenty of CG renderings of the OT turtles online for many years and even the figuarts don't look as odd so I do think they could've done a better job. Ironic that Turtles Forever has them looking perfect but they don't sound like the OT and here they sound like their OT selves yet they don't look like it. Shame that this is only one episode, I remembered reading that it was a two parter with one having them in 2D and the second in 3D.


Now to tackle the controversy of the OT turtles I think we need to wait and see before we criticize how the Nick show used them and I've always been very vocal about Turtles Forever totally screwing up the turtles. This clip doesn't show that, a few jabs at the OT's silliness is fine, Turtles forever just went overboard and treated them as only a gag and they didn't poke fun as much as they were mean spirited gags to prove a point "look how stupid the original show was" even though the turtles were nothing like that in the OT even at their silliest. We just have to wait and see, however the 30 second cameo they had in Wormquake already showed them in much better light tha the whole 90 minute movie did so I'm hopeful.

[Shark_Blade]

I love this!!! I love ot turtles (season 1)!!!

My body is ready!!! Shoutout to OT!!

[Zak The Neutrino]

I'm really looking forward this! I didn't think we would see this episode for awhile yet.

What if Nick trashes Mirage turtles in this? How many people would lose their minds?