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Old 02-21-2022, 03:54 AM   #1
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Unrest in Ukraine

Tensions between Russia and Ukraine are growing. Russia does not want Ukraine to join the NATO, and many people now fear a Russian invasion of Ukraine.

Like other Eastern European countries, Russia travelled in the directon towards democracy during the 1990's and early 21st century (while it had its economic problems). But while the other joined the EU or NATO, recent years saw Russia travelling in the oppsite direction, and Russia is now becoming a dysfunctional democracy that threatens its neighbourhood.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-60448162

Last edited by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan; 02-09-2024 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 02-21-2022, 12:14 PM   #2
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Make it "totalitarian five-minutes-away-from-Fascism ineffective state, full of corruption".
The only differences between Russia and some banana republic are territory and nukes.

As for stuff with Ukraine - I don't know anymore what Putin, wants, but it will be clear over the course of the next few days.

Edit:
Putin made an emergency speech on TV. Given his rhetoric, bald dwarf has finished his evolution in a Russian version of a Hitler.

Last edited by Sumac; 02-21-2022 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 02-21-2022, 03:16 PM   #4
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Well in that case Ukraine should definitely be allowed to join NATO and Putin can either piss off or be made to wish he had.

What is his deal anyhow? More territory? Childish pot stirring on the world stage or just dick waving?
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Old 02-21-2022, 03:32 PM   #5
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Well in that case Ukraine should definitely be allowed to join NATO and Putin can either piss off or be made to wish he had.

What is his deal anyhow? More territory? Childish pot stirring on the world stage or just dick waving?
All these years in power, with (real) stolen elections made him corrupt. Vladimir Putin now sees the collapse of the Soviet Union and the end of the Cold War as a catastrophe (which is strange, since he is not a Communist but rather a Nationalist), and now he seeks revenge.

It can be compared to a guy with moustache in Germany, who saw the defeat of the German Empire in World War I and the establishment of the Weimar Republic as a catastrophe. He came to power in 1933, and sought revenge...
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Old 02-21-2022, 03:33 PM   #6
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All these years in power, with (real) stolen elections made him corrupt. Vladimir Putin now sees the collapse of the Soviet Union and the end of the Cold War as a catastrophe (which is strange, since he is not a Communist but rather a Nationalist), and now he seeks revenge.

It can be compared to a guy with moustache in Germany, who saw the defeat of the German Empire in World War I and the establishment of the Weimar Republic as a catastrophe. He came to power in 1933, and sought revenge...
Very well stated.
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Old 02-21-2022, 06:41 PM   #7
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In 2014 Crimea was taken from Ukraine from Russia after the Ukrainian president was ousted. Now, it appears that this is a sequel. Do these people actually want to switch from Ukraine to Russia or is it a certain section of the Ukraine? I am just trying to get a non-political insight. On the surface it appears Vladimir Putin bullying the Ukraine into being fully absorbed and the west is trying to use diplomacy to stop it though NATO may be an option. Is there a difference this time where the people wanted to be annexed before and these don't which is why the U.N. didn't act last time? Like I said, I don't want any political issues here, just clarification. It is hard to do that through news media.
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Old 02-21-2022, 09:24 PM   #8
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Well in that case Ukraine should definitely be allowed to join NATO and Putin can either piss off or be made to wish he had.
It is impossible, since according to own NATO's rules, country which have conflicts on its territory can not become part of NATO. Which supposedly was one of the main reasons for starting DNR LNR **** in the first place.

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What is his deal anyhow? More territory? Childish pot stirring on the world stage or just dick waving?
One reason is that dwarf wants to boost up his ratings, which are extremely low due to the tanking economy and Russia effective fight against COVID (spoiler: it was not effective at all).
Another, he seemingly really thinks of himself as Russian Tsar who gathers old Russian territories - an idea existing, since they days of actual Russian Empire.

It doesn't make him a Communist, since late USSR, where Pitler is from, had very little in common with Communism. It does make him run-of-the-mill Imperialist, who believes that "territory is everything", and, "if your country is bigger than the rest, it is also more powerful and feared".

Which shows that oldman completely lost touch with reality and seemingly doesn't have a basic grasp on economy, modern technology and how relationship between modern countries work.

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In 2014 Crimea was taken from Ukraine from Russia after the Ukrainian president was ousted. Now, it appears that this is a sequel. Do these people actually want to switch from Ukraine to Russia or is it a certain section of the Ukraine?
You mean separatist republics?

I think, originally locals, like in Crimea, were on board, since culturally they were more Russians, than Ukrainians. It doesn't help that Russian propaganda created a whole storm of "fake news" about atrocities of Ukrainian army and their version of Nazis groups, against Russian-speaking people of Ukraine including rape, crucifixion (!!) and ol'good genocide.

So people were scared and were willing to accept new pro-Russian separatist leadership. Thing is, 8 years later, it had become obvious that their life has not become better under quasi-Russian control. Those republics are ruled by ruthless and dumb gangs of mercenaries, whose leaders at each throats. Its basically low scale Mad Max in post-Soviet cities. It hadn't changed as well.

Local people, obviously has no power in their own "independent (ha-ha) republics", which are ultimately ordered around by Moscow enforcers. So, whatever, "documents" and "pleas" are coming from those republics are basically, what Moscow had ordered local governments to say.

So, to sum it up: locals has no say in their destiny and every time you hear from pro-Russian source that "people of Luhansk / Donetsk had chosen this and that", it is a lie and was down by orders from Moscow.

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I am just trying to get a non-political insight. On the surface it appears Vladimir Putin bullying the Ukraine into being fully absorbed and the west is trying to use diplomacy to stop it though NATO may be an option.
NATO won't be an option, because, they won't get into conflict with nuclear power, because, of Ukraine.

Also, I don't think Pitler wants to get whole Ukraine: country is divided into Western and Eastern parts. Historically Western part is pro-West, it has its own culture, craving for independency and hatred for the Russians, who they consider usurpers and conquerors.

Eastern Ukraine, on contrary, is pro-Russian - they culture leans towards being more Russian-like and they predominantly speak Russian as their main language. However, after shitshow with separatists republics, even those people are not fans of Pitler's Russia.

If old dwarf will try to conquer Ukraine as a whole - he will end up with guerilla warfare and acts of terror of unprecedent scale, so maximum he can try is to conquer Eastern part of the country and now, even this looks like no easy task.

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Is there a difference this time where the people wanted to be annexed before and these don't which is why the U.N. didn't act last time? Like I said, I don't want any political issues here, just clarification. It is hard to do that through news media.
The only reason separatist republics were not annexed is, because, they were more useful as separatist republics. Now, it might change.

Last edited by Sumac; 02-21-2022 at 09:43 PM.
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Old 02-21-2022, 09:44 PM   #9
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It's funny, back when I used to move furniture I met a few guys from Russia, Ukraine... Even a couple from Georgia (country, not state). I remember the one guy, Vladimir, one day he was just constantly giving this other guy (whose name I forget) the stinkeye, and I asked him what was up. They sounded similar (to my ears) so I was like "I thought you Russian guys would all stick together?" He got all animated and was like "That guy not Russian! He from f*cking Ukraine! Those people are crazy!" I didn't ask him to elaborate, but it was funny.

One thing ALL of those guys told me, though - independently and years apart - was that no matter what they did on the surface, the Russian government had no intention of ever letting the past go and were obsessed with regaining whatever status and glory they'd lost over the latter half of the 20th Century. That even if it takes 200 years, they're hellbent on "ruling the world" again and will stop at nothing to see it through. Like they're the actual Legion of Doom over there.

Wouldn't doubt it.
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Old 02-22-2022, 01:52 AM   #10
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Stopping Ukraine joining NATO is definitely one angle. The fact Ukraine has a **** ton of valuable resources (such as rare metals and other minable assets) is probably another given prices on them have been rising last few years due to COVID etc.
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Old 02-22-2022, 03:56 AM   #11
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Stopping Ukraine joining NATO is definitely one angle. The fact Ukraine has a **** ton of valuable resources (such as rare metals and other minable assets) is probably another given prices on them have been rising last few years due to COVID etc.
Russia has more resources.
Annexing Ukraine basically will make it a huge money sink for the Russia (and that is without money, which Russia would need to sink into fighting local guerillas).
And given horrible state of Russian economy it is a complete insane plan. But Putin had proven that he and sanity run on separate lanes, so...who knows.
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Old 02-22-2022, 11:07 AM   #12
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"I thought you Russian guys would all stick together?" He got all animated and was like "That guy not Russian! He from f*cking Ukraine! Those people are crazy!"
Isn't it funny how no one, not even the liberal nuts who would appear in this thread, have nothing to say about the comment although Russian-guy's comment was inherently racist? But if you make a blanket observation about another group with habits central to one location, you'd have cries of racism.

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Stopping Ukraine joining NATO is definitely one angle. The fact Ukraine has a **** ton of valuable resources (such as rare metals and other minable assets) is probably another given prices on them have been rising last few years due to COVID etc.
A noteworthy amount of super conductor and semi-conductor materials are imported here from Ukraine.

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Russia has more resources.
Annexing Ukraine basically will make it a huge money sink for the Russia (and that is without money, which Russia would need to sink into fighting local guerillas).
And given horrible state of Russian economy it is a complete insane plan. But Putin had proven that he and sanity run on separate lanes, so...who knows.
Our spineless social justice President has done nothing. Trump would've been all over this as his record of action points out. Germany took action before Biden for God's sake. Germany. That's like saying that France launched a full out offensive against terrorism - it's unheard of.
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Old 02-22-2022, 11:52 AM   #13
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Our spineless social justice President has done nothing. Trump would've been all over this as his record of action points out. Germany took action before Biden for God's sake. Germany. That's like saying that France launched a full out offensive against terrorism - it's unheard of.
I am not sure what Trump could have done differently at this point.

I mean, sure situation would not escalated to this point, if he was a president. That is I am fairly confident in.

But at this point the only tangible thing possible is to proclaim sanctions. Neither US, nor any other country would go to war with nuclear power, because of Ukraine.

Basic explanation of what Pitler is doing

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Old 02-22-2022, 11:59 AM   #14
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I am not sure what Trump could have done differently at this point.

I mean, sure situation would not escalated to this point, if he was a president. That is I am fairly confident in.

But at this point the only tangible thing possible is to proclaim sanctions. Neither US, nor any other country would go to war with nuclear power, because of Ukraine.
He would've taken faster action and then backed it up with further and immediately deployable sanctions. Hands down that's what he would have done.

Fast and measurable response in that he probably would've worked on stopping the Nord Stream pipeline with Germany as an immediate action. Second likely sent a fleet into the national waters near Russia in preparation of an immediate trade blockade and third likely have began immediate investigative talks not only with Russia but an immediate and pre-emptive coalition in direct communication with the U.N., instead of Biden's wait time and days-later-offer to talk provided no invasion. All of that fits Trump's operating models. And all of that plays to what you said in that through those measures the situation wouldn't be where it is at now.

As opposed to Biden and Harris sitting around until after Russia had created a full crescent moon invasion force and then decided to say something too late in the game to truly deter a problem. Under Trump the entire mechanism of action for deterrent would've been moved up by days, along with a follow-up action plan for the next measures had Russia not been deterred.

Putin's entire operating model is old-school KGB deception and feint motions. And Biden and his patsy crew fell for it. "We will begin pulling out some troops tomorrow" and instead while Biden goes "wooo boy we dodged that bullet" the next day Putin sends them in. You have to have a non-war show of force that is immediate and overwhelming with the next action already set to go. Biden and Harris got strung along like fools.

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Old 02-22-2022, 12:49 PM   #15
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Biden set the stage for this by surrendering Afghanistan to the Taliban. There has never been a better time for foreign powers to militarily basically make whatever moves they want... the U.S. won't do anything about it

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Old 02-22-2022, 01:04 PM   #16
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Yeah, Biden might be screwed here because if his bloviating about sanctions doesn’t work then he’s going to continue to look bad. Also if the U.S. had to step in physically it would be another blow to his presidency because with everything that has gone on, American voters will react poorly to conflict. It’s a bad situation for him because ultimately he will just end up looking weak.
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Old 02-22-2022, 01:05 PM   #17
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https://bronx.news12.com/ukraine-cri...outside-russia
Financial sanctions against Russian banks and oligarchs were made earlier this afternoon. U.S. could do more though. I am surprised that Boris Johnson has not announced any sanctions yet.
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Old 02-22-2022, 02:05 PM   #18
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Biden set the stage for this by surrendering Afghanistan to the Taliban. There has never been a better time for foreign powers to militarily basically male whatever moves they want... the U.S. won't do anything about it
Shh, lets just pretend Trump didn't make deals directly with the Taliban to pull our people out before Biden was elected and was in agreements to have them out by May 2021, earlier than Biden's extended deadline. No way was that fallout not going to happen either way.



I'm surprised no one has ever managed to just take Putin down yet. How old is he even at this point, it would be easier if he'd just kick the bucket.

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Old 02-22-2022, 02:24 PM   #19
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Shh, lets just pretend Trump didn't make deals directly with the Taliban to pull our people out before Biden was elected and was in agreements to have them out by May 2021, earlier than Biden's extended deadline. No way was that fallout not going to happen either way.



I'm surprised no one has ever managed to just take Putin down yet. How old is he even at this point, it would be easier if he'd just kick the bucket.
He is 69. The relic of the KGB past is still pretty vigor and healthy for his age. I admit I thought he would have started to step back by now. Though look at both Trump and Biden who are a few years older still going full force. Fidel Castro did not step back until he was in his late 70s'.
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Old 02-22-2022, 02:49 PM   #20
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Epic post written. Then considered my highly-opinionated-yet-childlike-view of an audience for a moment before hitting "submit".

Let the conversation ensue at the level of "I can't beliiiiieeeeve that nobody haven't taken Putin ooooouuuuttttt" (try reading that like "Oh. MY. God. Becky look at her butt").
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