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Old 04-27-2021, 03:11 AM   #1
Andrew NDB
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Mortal Kombat 11

Does anyone else play this? It's no secret I'm not a fan of them regressing the series back into 2D (though this is a gripe for 2 MK games ago, really)... but this is a really beautiful game. And it really shines on PS5.

For kicks, I also have Mortal Kombat XL downloading, too. Using the Alien and Predator is just too tempting not to check out.
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Old 04-27-2021, 04:32 AM   #2
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I'm actually dying to, but I'm a couple of games behind on that series, on account of I'm not "allowed" to play them before my wife does, and all she's played is Red Dead 2 for two years. If I play "her" games before she gets a chance to she makes a whole big thing about it. She even bought herself a fighting stick when MK11 came out and hasn't even used it yet, which I keep teasing her about.

I was figuring when I get done with "Oblivion" soon I'd pick up from the reboot game, then finally play XL and 11. I saw most of her Story Mode playthrough on the reboot and really dug it, but I only really messed with the Arcade Mode a little bit, then got distracted by other games. Hard to believe that game was so long ago, already.

On the subject of 2D vs 3D fighting games, I wish that SoulCalibur wasn't pretty much dead. Those games were for the most part amazing. And I think they worked a lot better in 3D than some of the other fighting game series did.
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Old 04-27-2021, 11:24 AM   #3
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The new movie has me sniffing out Youtube videos from games I've missed. I left Mortal Kombat behind back around number 4, and I've never been a fan of playing fighting games with a traditional controller.

I'd say at this point, although I'm curious I'm leaving the fighting games in the past. I don't even know that I'd have the patience, capacity or interest to even learn a fighter's moves anymore....
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Old 04-27-2021, 01:43 PM   #4
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MK4 underwhelmed me as well, but I was a big fan of "Deadly Alliance", "Deception" and "Armageddon". That brought me back. The reboot game was really, really good. "Injustice 2" might be my favorite fighting game ever. Technically not MK, but same company. I generally suck at fighting games but they've become infinitely more easy to pick up and play than the "classic" ones of yore. So anyone who's been "out of the loop" needn't feel intimidated, they're arguably easier to play now than ever before.

I think most people are in agreement that MK4 was the nadir of the main series. Everything after that was a pretty strong return to form, though.
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Old 04-27-2021, 09:14 PM   #5
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Quote:
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MK4 underwhelmed me as well, but I was a big fan of "Deadly Alliance", "Deception" and "Armageddon". That brought me back. The reboot game was really, really good. "Injustice 2" might be my favorite fighting game ever. Technically not MK, but same company. I generally suck at fighting games but they've become infinitely more easy to pick up and play than the "classic" ones of yore. So anyone who's been "out of the loop" needn't feel intimidated, they're arguably easier to play now than ever before.

I think most people are in agreement that MK4 was the nadir of the main series. Everything after that was a pretty strong return to form, though.
I wonder how much of that was MK going to polygons instead of digitized actors. As a kid that made MK4 way less cool, and I heard that a lot.
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Old 04-27-2021, 09:21 PM   #6
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nobody cared about 2D in the 3D era, had MK4 been digitized actors it would've failed even more. Fighting games in general were a dead genre by the time MK4 came out so that also didn't help things. It was just a bad transition time for MK. It didn't help that it didn't have many iconic characters from the previous games, just the main characters. That's why Deadly Alliance was mostly promoted as a "new" mortal kombat despite being a sequel, they kill Liu Kang, the main character and Shao Kahn, the main villain in the opening cutscene.

MK11 character designs are awful, SJW at its worst, and isn't the story that they go back in time? MK needs to explore the world after the original trilogy. That's what I loved the most about the PS2 trilogy of games, it was fresh new story of the MK world and not a rehash like it's been the last 3 games.
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Old 04-27-2021, 09:22 PM   #7
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I wonder how much of that was MK going to polygons instead of digitized actors. As a kid that made MK4 way less cool, and I heard that a lot.
At the time, I remember it's launch in arcades - it looked good at the time. IT hasn't aged well... like N64.

But it was on fire for a while in arcades and the 3-D play mechanics were interesting - not quite Tekken, but added a dimension to the fighting just as much as the run button did in MK 3.
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Old 04-27-2021, 09:10 PM   #8
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I'm actually dying to, but I'm a couple of games behind on that series, on account of I'm not "allowed" to play them before my wife does, and all she's played is Red Dead 2 for two years. If I play "her" games before she gets a chance to she makes a whole big thing about it. She even bought herself a fighting stick when MK11 came out and hasn't even used it yet, which I keep teasing her about.

I was figuring when I get done with "Oblivion" soon I'd pick up from the reboot game, then finally play XL and 11. I saw most of her Story Mode playthrough on the reboot and really dug it, but I only really messed with the Arcade Mode a little bit, then got distracted by other games. Hard to believe that game was so long ago, already.

On the subject of 2D vs 3D fighting games, I wish that SoulCalibur wasn't pretty much dead. Those games were for the most part amazing. And I think they worked a lot better in 3D than some of the other fighting game series did.
Are you talking about SoulCalibur, as in part 1? Cause people are all up on part 6 nowadays. They actually added Haohmaru was DLC, finally the star of SoulCalibur VS The star of Haohmaru.
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Old 04-27-2021, 10:52 PM   #9
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With MK4, I think it was just overall a clunky attempt. It's been a while since I've played it; I don't remember it being "bad" but it felt slower, more clunky and less fluid than the first three. It looked okay but graphically lacked polish, and other fighting games had been doing 3D (or 2.5D) for a while already and MK was sort of a day late and a dollar short in finally jumping into that side of the pool. They tried some new things with it but they didn't quite land, like adding weapons. Not a bad idea but they were usually more trouble than they were worth.

Basically, at the time it came out it didn't feel like it did anything poorly, but it also didn't feel like it did anything "better" than most of the other contemporary fighting games were doing.

Taking a long break between MK4 and Deadly Alliance was smart, as Deadly Alliance really did feel more like a reinvention than "just" a sequel, and I think by that point it was necessary.

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Are you talking about SoulCalibur, as in part 1? Cause people are all up on part 6 nowadays. They actually added Haohmaru was DLC, finally the star of SoulCalibur VS The star of Haohmaru.
I mean that whole series. It's dead. The good thing about Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat coming back is that their reboots were good, but the bad thing is that the market can only sustain so many fighting games and pretty much everything that WASN'T SF or MK (or Injustice) had to go away.

Too bad. The SoulCalibur series was great, overall.
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Old 04-28-2021, 12:14 AM   #10
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I mean that whole series. It's dead. The good thing about Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat coming back is that their reboots were good, but the bad thing is that the market can only sustain so many fighting games and pretty much everything that WASN'T SF or MK (or Injustice) had to go away.

Too bad. The SoulCalibur series was great, overall.
I'm not sure I follow. Soul Calibur 6 only came out a couple of years ago and 7 may or may not be far behind at this point.
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Old 04-28-2021, 05:48 AM   #11
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Wow, I hadn't even heard that they were doing any more of them. I know that the last few didn't make much of an impact and I hadn't heard anything at all since the last one. Huh.

Well, that's a spot of good news.
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Old 04-28-2021, 08:47 AM   #12
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I wish that SoulCalibur wasn't pretty much dead.
SoulCalibur 6 is active right now and there are some people online, which is also pretty good.

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Fighting games in general were a dead genre by the time MK4 came out so that also didn't help things.
Sorry, but this is completely wrong: at the time of MK4 release there were multiple popular fighting games around, which were huge at the time: Tekken, Dead or Alive, Virtua Fighter. Heck, there were bunch of 3D fightings on PlayStation 1 and Sega Saturn. Genre was from dead.

One of the reasons why MK4 ended up with a bad reputation it got, was that there were much better fighting games around. So much for "dead" genre.

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I mean that whole series.
New characters for SC6 was released just few months ago, but its dead. What.

Something like Virtua Fighter is dead - no new game in 10 years. SC is alive. Not in the best condition and its certainly Namco treats it like an unfavorite child, but its here and breathing.
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Old 04-28-2021, 08:58 AM   #13
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In my own defense, I don't ever play games online so I wouldn't have been aware of such things. Please take that into consideration before judging me too harshly. Thanks.

Given that I hadn't heard anything of SoulCalibur in a very long time, I'd assumed that it was dead. Clearly, that was an error. I appreciate that I was mistaken and also grateful to know that. I look forward to future games in the series. SoulCalibur II was the game that enticed me into giving fighting games another chance when it first came out, so I have great affection for the series as a whole.
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Old 04-28-2021, 09:21 AM   #14
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Honestly, my least favorite thing about the Mk games are the mechanics, sometimes. Compared to many other fighters, it feels stiff in a way that is stifling.

Not that I hate the gameplay. I just prefer Street Fighter.
That said, I've always played and loved Mk way more because of the characters and aesthetics.

MK11 might be one the best playing Mortal Kombat games though. It feels like the games keep getting better as of the last decade or so, which is great.
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Old 04-28-2021, 06:37 PM   #15
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I see your reasoning Sumac. Especially now that MK has stepped into the e-sports arena.

The thing is though, Netherrealm have never been shy about mixing up the MK formula, so you never know what type of spin-off we may get.
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Old 04-28-2021, 06:41 PM   #16
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Mortal Kombat now is arguably the biggest its been since the 90's. MK11 sold incredibly well.

MK's low-point is probably between 2001-2010. The whole early 2000's felt like MK was on the backburner, and Deadly Alliance hype fizzled fast. MK9 in 2011 rebooted the series and its been popular since.

It's kind of ironic, it feels like all 90's franchises lost their popularity in the early 2000's, and then had a rebound after the 2010 decade started. I wonder why it was, I guess 90's kids grew up, then 2000's kids didn't get into it, then come a decade later, it had a resurgence. Pretty much every 90's property went out for awhile I remember.
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Old 04-28-2021, 06:55 PM   #17
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Deadly Alliance, Deception and Armageddon all got scores in the 8s and 9s. DA ended up selling almost four million copies and got the best reception since MKII. Deception was the first fighting game to have an online mode. They all won various "Game of the Year" and "Fighting Game of the Year" awards from multiple magazines and websites.

"On the backburner" my ass. Maybe you weren't paying any attention but the franchise was doing VERY well that decade. The reboot and return to 2D definitely got them even more attention - everything feels bigger and more urgent in the Social Media Era - but you are absolutely f*cking lying, here.

It probably is bigger Right Now but to say that it was "forgotten" during the 2000s is blatantly, provably untrue. Smack yourself.
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Old 04-28-2021, 07:52 PM   #18
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Yeah, but the 2000's games definitely sold less than MK1-3 in the 90's or the reboots from 2011 onward. I had Deadly Alliance on Gamecube and played it a ton, and even back then it felt like MK's time had passed. Even Mortal Kombat 4 seemed to have more of a following despite the gameplay being much worse.

Armaggeddon is also pretty much what caused the series to eventually be rebooted, the game was meant to bow out the series but the huge cast meant poor fatalies and characters having copy/paste movesets. I lived through that entire era, it also didn't help that Soul Calibur and Tekken were far bigger at the time.
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Old 04-28-2021, 08:14 PM   #19
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Consider:

MKII and III sold big numbers when the only competition was the 13th update of SFII.

DA, Deception and Armageddon sold big numbers and won Awards while Virtua Fighter, Tekken, SoulCalibur and DOA were all arguably at their peak.

And now, MK11 sells big numbers when once again, there's literally zero competition.

Not the same world, buddy.

You're not much of a Big Picture Guy, but you sure speak with a lot of unearned authority.

I'm not saying the MK games from that decade were necessarily "better", but you're saying they were practically invisible when in fact the complete opposite of that is true.

I don't like liars.
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Old 04-28-2021, 09:11 PM   #20
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The thing is though, Netherrealm have never been shy about mixing up the MK formula, so you never know what type of spin-off we may get.
2D and 3D are too different to easily move from one to another. Especially if you have popular franchise and bunch of fans.

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Deadly Alliance, Deception and Armageddon all got scores in the 8s and 9s. DA ended up selling almost four million copies and got the best reception since MKII. Deception was the first fighting game to have an online mode. They all won various "Game of the Year" and "Fighting Game of the Year" awards from multiple magazines and websites.

"On the backburner" my ass. Maybe you weren't paying any attention but the franchise was doing VERY well that decade. The reboot and return to 2D definitely got them even more attention - everything feels bigger and more urgent in the Social Media Era - but you are absolutely f*cking lying, here.

It probably is bigger Right Now but to say that it was "forgotten" during the 2000s is blatantly, provably untrue. Smack yourself.
This situation was complex: MK was pretty big, but it was not that hard, since 2000s decade was a time of death for fighting games - most franchises had either died or went into slumber up until Street Fighter 4, which revived the genre.

To put it simply MK was big due to its legacy, gore, but most importantly, the fact there was almost no competition in its segment of casual fighting games. Tekken was a very big thing, but it was more complex, SoulCalibur was making mistake after mistake up until it had almost died with SoulCalibur 5 and 2D fighting games were almost eradicated, safe for Japanese indie titles like Melty Blood or Guilty Gear, which obviously didn't attracted lots of attention from mainstream public.

In fact, when MK4 ended up competing with 3D fighting games in the middle of the 90s it was crushed.

And about numbers - I've heard that MKDA sold about 2,1 million copies and each successive MK game sold less and less until MK9. Where did you get 4 million copies number?

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Yeah, but the 2000's games definitely sold less than MK1-3 in the 90's or the reboots from 2011 onward. I had Deadly Alliance on Gamecube and played it a ton, and even back then it felt like MK's time had passed. Even Mortal Kombat 4 seemed to have more of a following despite the gameplay being much worse.
Not really: MK4 was maligned pretty hard almost from the start. AFAIK, most fans considered it misstep.
MKDA-MKD-MKA were considered pretty good for its time, though a lot of people wanted MK to return to 2D.

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Armaggeddon is also pretty much what caused the series to eventually be rebooted, the game was meant to bow out the series but the huge cast meant poor fatalies and characters having copy/paste movesets. I lived through that entire era, it also didn't help that Soul Calibur and Tekken were far bigger at the time.
MKA was supposed to be storyless game, but higher ups at Midway forced developers to add story. Which in the end led to reboot (well, and Midway bankruptcy, which forced developers to start from scratch to prove their worthiness to new owners).

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All during an era where they had a LOT more high-end competition than MKII had in 1995, or MK11 does now.
Sorry, but its simply not true - in 1995 MK had a lot more competition, than it did in 2000s or now. It was a time when a most companies could allow themselves to keep several fighting game series active, so there was strong competition from Capcom (Street Fighter, Darkstalkers, Marvel crossovers), SNK (Fatal Fury, Samurai Shodown, The King of Fighters), Nintendo (Killer Instinct (produced in part by Midway as well), not to mention rising popularity of 3D fighting games, like Virtua Fighter, Tekken and SoulEdge (SoulBlade). And crapton of lesser known 2D and 3D fighting games.

In 2000s it was basically only MK vs Tekken and SoulCalibur, which by mid 00s was not a factor anymore. Virtua Fighter was interesting only for hardcore players, Dead or Alive went exclusive for XBox and everything else was either dead or niche.

And nowadays MK belongs to higher end fighting games and its only viable competition is Tekken, with Street Fighter distant 3rd and everything else being for hardcore fans or 2D enthusiasts.
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