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Old 05-09-2021, 03:27 PM   #81
Leo656
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Isn't there some kind of gimmick in Injustice 2 where you can pay money to get better loot, like armor pieces and whatnot? I think I remember hearing about that. I played that game a bunch but I never went in for that stuff since I was fine just getting stuff as I happened upon it.

I guess I sort of understand the microtransaction part of these games nowadays, like if someone's a Dad with a full-time job or whatever and they don't have infinite time or patience to unlock the "better" stuff or all the secrets or whatever... in that case it can be a convenient perk for them. But at the same time it sort of seems like it "stacks the deck" against other people by making it harder or less likely to come across those things without spending real money as a workaround.
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Old 05-09-2021, 04:24 PM   #82
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Isn't there some kind of gimmick in Injustice 2 where you can pay money to get better loot, like armor pieces and whatnot? I think I remember hearing about that. I played that game a bunch but I never went in for that stuff since I was fine just getting stuff as I happened upon it.
Yes, it is basically a lottery: pay money and receive random loot box containing some item. Not sure how it works in case of Injustice 2, but usually there is a high chance you receive nothing useful. MK11 has the same mechanic in place in the Krypt on top of Easy Fatality tokens.

Sadly this mechanic mostly done to attract younger people who are not so responsible with money and want to get everything "here and now".
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Old 05-09-2021, 04:28 PM   #83
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I imagine that it's worse in MK11, then; it's been a while sine I played Injustice 2, but while I definitely got a good number of duplicates of items I already had I still got plenty of "good" stuff fairly often, to the point where I never felt compelled to use the microtransaction option.

And yeah, I can definitely see some dumb kids spending a hundred bucks in one shot on stuff like that, unfortunately.
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Old 05-10-2021, 04:44 AM   #84
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No, quality of the models is nowhere near close to the Arcade version. Also, it runs faster and controls looser than Arcade.

N64 version was the closest to the Arcade, than PS1 version and PC version was the worst. MK Gold arguably is the best home version of MK4, both graphics and content-wise.
Interesting. The reviews I read speak to the contrary, but I'll trust ya. Like, literally... everyone screaming that the GOG version of MK4 is the best visually and "flow" wise. But I'm totally screwing with the Gold version just because of the added characters.

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You are just not good enough. Sorry.
Akuma is "broken", but he is not an automatic ticket to the victory. Especially after multiple revisions of the game.
Heh. Well, this is fair. I make no bones about it.

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Sidestepping changes a lot about gameplay. For one it completely changes usage of projectiles, which is a traditional meta for Street Fighter and even more so for MK. Not to mention it changes how teleports work and some other factors, like physics and juggling. Its also influences speed and dynamic of the game, since 3D fighting games are slower than 2D ones. When they try to be fast, you usually get MK4.
Changes projectiles... in how they hit? As in, in a 2D fighter a projectile is this inevitable thing coming toward you... but 3D you get to change the plane? This seems like neither a groundbreakingly different thing or game breakingly thing. It just seems like the obvious way to go.

Someone shoots a haryuken at you... you should probably go sideways. Rather than pretend you can't because you're locked into 1992 gameplay for no other reason than because the video game company still thinks we're in 1992.

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Basically, as I said: 2D and 3D fighting games are fundamentally different. You can't just copypaste 2D gameplay into 3D, add sidesteps and keep meta the same. This is not how it works and 3D is not better than 2D - it is just a different thing all together.
I'm following you. I'm just not understanding your rationale to such. You've said fireballs and all that as one... but I'm not completely getting your argument.

Like, if the logistics of a fireball getting thrown in a 3D fighting game aren't "right," then surely they can just adjust or improve or perfect those "physics"? This is a thing they can do.

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It won't play like a Street Fighter game. Just like when MK moved to 3D it barely played like old MK games.
Look. Both of us are men who emulate games. I urge you to try DC Universe vs. MK. Try it. Give it a good try. Then tell me what you think. I think that alone is proof positive of results.

And, maybe, my argument.

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Even, though individual SF games are different from each other, all of them have the same fundamental rules. Moving series to 3D will change those rules, which will alienate a lot of fans and won't make new ones.
Eh. OK. A little bit of this or that. But ultimately it is the same experience. Flashier in some ways.

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Without going into long rant: what bothered me the most that they mutilated lore of the series and destroyed character progress.

One of the most interesting things in the MK for me, even above gameplay, were lore and character progression. Each game added something new, but new stuff was usually working within previously established framework. MK11 effectively added so much stupid stuff (Titans who are parents of the Elder Gods, MK story being conflict between Liu and Raiden, set up by Kronika), which was never mentioned or hinted before, that it has effectively broke the lore for me. It was, basically like Rise of the Skywalkers for SW movies, which established that Emperor was alive and his death in Return of the Jedi was meaningless and sacrifice of Vader was basically for nothing.

And character progression was terminated as well. I am was not OK with MK9, since it invalidated all the progress and stories I was following, since 1994, but I made reluctant peace with it, since MK9 was more or less continuation of MKA and it was interesting to see, how story will go this time around.

MK11 terminates character progression again! At this point, I don't even know why I should bother following or care about individual stories, since next game can nullify them as well. Not to mention unexplained changes in the design, bunch of plotholes and unwarranted dumb retcons (origin of Mileena, Sindel being evil). Not to mention possibility that the next game will start story from scratch. If that happens...I don't know why I should even bother following MK story any more.

For me one of the key components of it, was that it was a continuous and mostly coherent story. Now its just a shredded towel, divided into multiple pieces.
Yeah, I can understand that. Even when I was playing "Deception" eons ago... I respected that even how convoluted things became, I felt like I was playing the Next Chapter in the ongoing Mortal Kombat saga. And I seem to remember... as a kid... there was something... I don't quite remember now... you had to clip something, or mail something in... then you got an MK comic. I remember doing that. And getting that. I fully appreciated the mythology and care there.

Anyway, now it feels like a toxic property continuity wise. Because of MK 2011 and now MK 11. Like Geoff Johns did his usual job, then came back and did a 180 and did another one. Crazy. The good news is there probably won't be an MK12 for many years... there will just be more DLC and more DLC.

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They could have just added different moveset for characters, which would have been much better and more coveted innovation, than sidesteps or weapons.
In other words... nothing to introduce 3D stuff.

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Main problem of MK4 was not only all characters played mostly the same, but Midway even removed individual MK3 combos. They wanted to create an open-ended combo system, but since all characters fundamentally has the same base moveset, it made all characters feel like almost clones of each other. Even ease of use of special moves was not good enough.
Hm. You're probably right. It all does seem a bit sameish.

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Whatever you thoughts on SFEX it is still fundamentally a good series, when it comes to gameplay.

Also, it never attempted to be similar to Virtua Fighter. Core idea was similar to MK4 - take classic gameplay and put it into 3D with some 3D bells and whistles, but keep it familiar. Even SFEX was never very successful it is still worked better than MK4, since fundamentals of SF are just better.
My point is only Capcom obviously saw Virtua Fighter and stuff like it and went, "Uh oh! We better not be a dinosaur! We better do something!" So they put out Street Fighter Ex. But it's just almost exactly the same game/engine as SF2. Just with polygons.

Boring. Didn't advance anything. I remember seeing it in the arcade and nobody playing it.

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2D games are not "simpler". They are fundamentally different.
Also, as I said before - Akuma works in Tekken 7 that well only, because, he is an outlier and if you built 3D Street Fighter game, it will be radically different, like MKDA was different from MK4.
*sigh* I just don't think you and I are going to agree on this fundamental point. But that's OK. Again, please... please try out DC Universe vs. MK and tell me otherwise and why.

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Old 05-10-2021, 01:41 PM   #85
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Interesting. The reviews I read speak to the contrary, but I'll trust ya. Like, literally... everyone screaming that the GOG version of MK4 is the best visually and "flow" wise. But I'm totally screwing with the Gold version just because of the added characters.
I've checked description on GOG - it says nothing about quality of the graphics, unless I've missed something.

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Changes projectiles... in how they hit? As in, in a 2D fighter a projectile is this inevitable thing coming toward you... but 3D you get to change the plane? This seems like neither a groundbreakingly different thing or game breakingly thing. It just seems like the obvious way to go.
It is a game changing thing.
Because, in Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat (and other 2D fighting games) a lot depends on how players use projectiles. In 3D the whole gameplan would be completely different, if players will be able to sidestep projectiles.

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Someone shoots a haryuken at you... you should probably go sideways. Rather than pretend you can't because you're locked into 1992 gameplay for no other reason than because the video game company still thinks we're in 1992.
There were 2D fighting games (Fatal Fury 3), where players could dodge projectiles by sidestepping them as far back as 1992, but they never become popular enough for this mechanic to become widespread, for a reason. There were even 2D fighting games with a similar combo structure to Tekken (Art of Fighting 3) and they never has become popular enough as well.

It is not a gameplay limitation of 2D fighting game genre per se. It is entirely possible to make a 2D fighting game where players can dodge projectiles. It isn't done, however, because it radically changes gameplay and slows gameplay speed.

Once again, it is not question of limitations or traditions, it is all about game design, which makes game faster and more fun for people who prefer 2D fighting games.

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I'm following you. I'm just not understanding your rationale to such. You've said fireballs and all that as one... but I'm not completely getting your argument.

Like, if the logistics of a fireball getting thrown in a 3D fighting game aren't "right," then surely they can just adjust or improve or perfect those "physics"? This is a thing they can do.
No.
It is not about "physics" - it is about gameplan and strategy. Projectiles in 2D fighting games can be used to keep opponent at bay or bait them into attacking, among other usages, like creating setups (Cyrax's bombs in MK9, MKX, Bridget in Guilty Gear or Menat and Rose in Street Fighter V). In 3D this strategy is not viable in most cases, due to ability to sidestep.

This is why most 3D fighting games (Virtua Fighter, Tekken, SoulCalibur, Dead or Alive) do not use projectiles at all. And when some characters do so, like Akuma, Eliza or Geese in Tekken 7, those characters considered to be "broken", since the gameplay was not built to account for their abilities, which we've discussed above.

There is also case of hitboxes, which in 3D are much bigger than in 2D games, to account for possibility of being attacked from the side. Which means there is possibility for the character to be hit by projectile, even if they sidestepped it. It is a common issue in 3D Mortal Kombats, where visually you've sidesteped projectile or attack, but you still get hit by it. Also, similar things occur in Tekken 7.

Once again, it is not about tradition, but about gameplan, which is extremely different between 2D and 3D fighting games.

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Look. Both of us are men who emulate games. I urge you to try DC Universe vs. MK. Try it. Give it a good try. Then tell me what you think. I think that alone is proof positive of results.

And, maybe, my argument.
I will give it a try, maybe.

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Eh. OK. A little bit of this or that. But ultimately it is the same experience. Flashier in some ways.
No, fully 3D Street Fighter will completely different from 2D SF.
3D MKs are testament to that, since even MKA, which was the closest to classic games in terms of gameplay was very different from them.

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Yeah, I can understand that. Even when I was playing "Deception" eons ago... I respected that even how convoluted things became, I felt like I was playing the Next Chapter in the ongoing Mortal Kombat saga. And I seem to remember... as a kid... there was something... I don't quite remember now... you had to clip something, or mail something in... then you got an MK comic. I remember doing that. And getting that. I fully appreciated the mythology and care there.

Anyway, now it feels like a toxic property continuity wise. Because of MK 2011 and now MK 11. Like Geoff Johns did his usual job, then came back and did a 180 and did another one. Crazy. The good news is there probably won't be an MK12 for many years... there will just be more DLC and more DLC.
MK12 will be released someday...but I am not sure, if a current situation will make me care enough about it.

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In other words... nothing to introduce 3D stuff.
Lack of 3D was not the main problem of MK gameplay moving forward.
It was how basic and samey each character were, which 3D wouldn't rectified.

I can't say I am a big fun of introducing 3 fighting styles per character in MKDA, but at least it helped to make characters unique from each other, until MKD and MKA cut movesets and make characters too similar to each other again. lol

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My point is only Capcom obviously saw Virtua Fighter and stuff like it and went, "Uh oh! We better not be a dinosaur! We better do something!" So they put out Street Fighter Ex. But it's just almost exactly the same game/engine as SF2. Just with polygons.

Boring. Didn't advance anything. I remember seeing it in the arcade and nobody playing it.
I would say the main problem was that Capcom oversaturated market with Street Fighter games - there were multiple games and their revisions co-existing at the same time: last version of Street Fighter 2, multiple revisions of Street Fighter Alpha and Street Fighter 3. On top of that Capcom VS games and Street Fighter: The Movie and now Street Fighter EX.

I think, one of the main reasons why Street Fighter was losing popularity, aside from Capcom turning unrelated spin-off into Street Fighter 3, was that people just tired to see so many versions of the same series.

MK kept it curt with only 4 widely different games and only 1 update to MK3. Most other games did so as well and Capcom just didn't know when to stop.

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*sigh* I just don't think you and I are going to agree on this fundamental point. But that's OK. Again, please... please try out DC Universe vs. MK and tell me otherwise and why.
My fundamental is that 2D games are different thing from 3D and they are interchangeable. Just like JRPGs and Action RPGs.

Both are good and have their own value for players.
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Old 05-10-2021, 04:22 PM   #86
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Working my way through MK2011's Challenge Tower, still. I'm at #293, I think, but I had to forget about getting the Achievement because I ended up having to pay Koins to skip a few. I made it all the way through #250 with only a few that gave me a hard time, but I was able to get through them, but then #251 just pissed me off too much and took way too much of my time. I spent like two hours on it, then looked it up online to find that some people spent the better part of a week trying to beat it, and that everyone hates it, and most people just skip it, I'm like "Yeah, screw that." Then there were a couple others, like the ones where you have to fight three Shao Khans and three Goros; I could get really close but then something would always screw it up on the third guy. And the one where all your control inputs are reversed, I just couldn't even get close to hacking that one. So I think I skipped like 7 or 8 of them between 251 and where I'm at.

I was pretty pissed, because I was hoping to not skip any, but then I hit a wall on the second-to-last Test Your Might Challenge, anyway; all the earlier ones were super-easy but then on that one I couldn't get close, and there's still one more to go and I know I'll have to skip that one, too. So even if I'd beaten the other Challenges I still would have to skip those and not get the Achievement anyway, so I don't feel quite so bad anymore. Especially when every single one that I did skip, I looked them up online for tips and most of the "tips" people gave for those specific Challenges were "Just skip it, it's not worth it, the developers were smoking crack." I guess being able to do like 280-something out of 293 (so far) is still pretty good. It's just so oddly unbalanced, like some of the Challenges are stupid easy and a handful are absolute torture, and there's no rhyme or reason. It's not like they all get harder as they go along or anything, they just randomly drop a lousy one in between a bunch of simple ones.

I did manage to unlock the rest of the Alternate Attires in the Krypt, so that's pretty cool. I think there's like 40 more things I need to unlock but I think it's all just music and concept art. I need to play more Arcade mode to get money, now, because I know there's at least two of the remaining Challenges I'm gonna have to skip past to get the Mileena alternate outfit.
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Old 05-14-2021, 08:59 AM   #87
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We will never see a time jump in mortal kombat that doesn't somehow bring the legacy characters over in some way, they're too iconic and they realize it now. So there'll be some type of shenanigan's to keep all the characters in their most iconic form.
Same reason why Street Fighter 4 & 5 take place before SF 3 since everyone would be too old if it took place after 3. A shame that the days of capcom or midway just saying all new characters except for these 3 are gone, now it's the opposite, all old characters are in with 3 new original characters.
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Old 05-14-2021, 09:30 PM   #88
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We will never see a time jump in mortal kombat that doesn't somehow bring the legacy characters over in some way, they're too iconic and they realize it now. So there'll be some type of shenanigan's to keep all the characters in their most iconic form.
Same reason why Street Fighter 4 & 5 take place before SF 3 since everyone would be too old if it took place after 3. A shame that the days of capcom or midway just saying all new characters except for these 3 are gone, now it's the opposite, all old characters are in with 3 new original characters.
SF3 was an outlier. It have ended up like this, because, Capcom had repurposed spin-off into Street Fighter 3.

Originally it was supposed to feature only one returning character: an older Dan Hibiki, then he was replaced with Sean Matsuda, until pressure from fans didn't force them to include Ryu and Ken and rename game into SF3. All other characters were supposed to be completely new.

MK with its approach to add a lot of new characters in each game was really an outlier - most other fighting games usually reused old rosters + added 3-4 new characters with each installment. It was done partially to reuse resources and partially to not alienate fans.

Early MK could allow themselves to add more new characters, because, classic MK games didn't reuse assets from previous installments, and neither they had multiple revisions (with UMK3 / MKT being a sole exceptions).
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Old 05-14-2021, 10:02 PM   #89
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Yeah, SF3 really is this odd duck. It was so amazing to think that finally Capcom would release SF3 and not just yet another edition of SF2... and it came out and it was weird an no one really liked it. More Darkstalkers than SF.
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Old 05-14-2021, 11:00 PM   #90
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I never played SFIII until recently, when the Anniversary Collection compilation came out.

I think it was good, but I think part of it was that it just came out at the wrong time. For one thing, they probably waited too long by a year or two. For another, when it did come out the media was so focused on "Every single game needs to be 3D polygons, now" that SFIII was considered both a disappointment and a relic.

I was just reading a whole series of retrospective articles about the SF franchise a few weeks ago, and much was said from both developers and review critics about how when that game came out people were SO fixated on stuff like "WHY is this another 2D sprite game? That is SO dated, it needs to be like Virtua Fighter! Didn't Capcom get the memo that we're in The Future, now?" And it got to the point that people couldn't get past the graphics being "outdated" and appreciate the game on its own merits.

There were obviously other factors in play but that was part of it, for sure. I'unno, like I said I didn't play it at all until like two years ago but I thought it was fine.
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Old 05-15-2021, 12:08 AM   #91
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From what I heard Alex was supposed to be the main character, but pressure had them bring in Ryu and Ken. But originally it was gonna be all new characters with Sean being the only possible link to Ken.

I remember the magazine complaints about SF3, everyone was on a 3D buzz back then. I forgot what game it was, either Darkstalkers 3 or one of the VS games where a magazine complained that the ending was just a picture or 2 with some text and whatnot, since everyone was so spoiled on short FMV endings with games like Tekken and whatnot.

For me, SF3 just felt weird, like idk.... no one really resonated with me but Ryu and Ken. Like there was no one I could really get into of all the new characters. They all got improvements and became better characters in the later revisions of SF3 (and they would improve in SF 4 and 5), but in that very first game SF3 The New Generation, it felt everybody sucked except Ryu and Ken. I remember in the arcades everyone would get tired of it and go to either the older SF games or the 3D ones. Like yeah SF 2 also had Ryu and Ken, but I could win matches with Guile, Chun Li, and Blanka in the arcades. Like I WANTED to use Elena and Dudley to kick some ass, but I just couldn't get into them as easily and always had to fall back on Ryu/Ken if I ever play at the arcade.

Part 3s were weird man, like they had this extra pressure to really change and mix things up. SF3 was Ryu and Ken and bunch of weird new characters. Art of Fighting 3 was just Ryo and Robert and a bunch of weird new characters. Fatal Fury 3 brought back the Bogards, Mai and Geese, then a bunch of weird new characters. Mortal Kombat 3 mixed it up a bit with lots of new characters to replace old character as well as the return of Kano and Sonya with new looks. Tekken 3 only brought back a handful and the rest were all new characters (though to be fair some were sons or students of older characters).
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Old 05-15-2021, 12:28 AM   #92
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I do think the "upgraded" versions of SFIII were big improvements, for sure. They kind of stumbled out of the gate.

But at the very least, if nothing else, that game series gave us Elena. She's SO HAWT, man.

I was pretty annoyed when I finally played those games like two-ish years ago. "Dammit, I definitely would've gotten on board way sooner if anyone bothered to tell me there's a chick running around practically naked doing Capoeira!"
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Old 05-15-2021, 12:35 AM   #93
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Things were just so clean until then.

SF1: A low-key street fighting tournament is held with only a few fighters. Ryu and Ken go into the tournament as friends, the rest don't know each other. Ryu wins by beating Sagat.

SF2: A higher key street fighting tournament is held, open to the world. There are lots of complex relationships between a lot of the fighters and one another. Guile (or whoever) wins by defeating M. Bison.

SF3: Many years in the future some kind of alien creature in charge of the Illuminati (!!!) has some kind of vague machinations over the planet... and rather than a street fighting tournament, it's basically just random fighters (who are almost none of the same fighters from SF1 or SF2 and largely alien/cartoon character-like) bumping into one another? Until it's time to fight the alien creature at the end?

It's like whiplash. Huh?! What? Why are we going here, exactly? And apparently it was such a blight to the series that all we're ever going to get is more prequels in between SF2 and SF3 like SF4 and SF5.
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Old 05-15-2021, 12:37 AM   #94
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I do think the "upgraded" versions of SFIII were big improvements, for sure. They kind of stumbled out of the gate.

But at the very least, if nothing else, that game series gave us Elena. She's SO HAWT, man.

I was pretty annoyed when I finally played those games like two-ish years ago. "Dammit, I definitely would've gotten on board way sooner if anyone bothered to tell me there's a chick running around practically naked doing Capoeira!"
Well yeah....

For me the perfect combination of a 'hot' videogame fighting woman is both that she's hot, but also that she's someone I can use to kick a lot of ass and win a lot of matches with. Elena would help me win a lot of matches in the SF4 days.
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Old 05-15-2021, 12:43 AM   #95
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Things were just so clean until then.

SF1: A low-key street fighting tournament is held with only a few fighters. Ryu and Ken go into the tournament as friends, the rest don't know each other. Ryu wins by beating Sagat.

SF2: A higher key street fighting tournament is held, open to the world. There are lots of complex relationships between a lot of the fighters and one another. Guile (or whoever) wins by defeating M. Bison.

SF3: Many years in the future some kind of alien creature in charge of the Illuminati (!!!) has some kind of vague machinations over the planet... and rather than a street fighting tournament, it's basically just random fighters (who are largely alien/cartoon character-like) bumping into one another? Until it's time to fight the alien creature at the end?

It's like whiplash. Huh?! What? And apparently it was such a blight to the series that all we're ever going to get is more prequels in between SF2 and SF3.
I mean...

MK1- martial arts tournament where you fight for your life

MK2- another martial arts tournament but this time takes place in Outworld

MK3- OUTWORLD MERGES WITH EARTH REALM, TONS OF SOULS INSTANTLY FORFEIT TO SHAO KAHN, MASS EXTERMINATION SQUADS SENT WORLDWIDE TO WIPE OUT OPPOSITION.

Damn that escalated quickly.

Fatal Fury- Bogards enter a tournament to take down their father's killer

Fatal Fury- now the tournament is worldwide

Fatal Fury 3- now Geese (and others) are after scrolls that unlock the secret of immortality and whatnot? the whaaa???

Tekken 1- Kazuya is out to stop Heihachi in a tournament

Tekken 2- Heihachi is out to stop Kazuya in a tournament who is now the devil

Tekken 3- jump forward years later, characters are older, we got sons or students of past characters, now they're fighting a monster called Ogre the 'god of fighting' that goes around killing other fighers. WTF
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Old 05-15-2021, 01:18 AM   #96
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I sure learn a lot here.
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Old 05-15-2021, 06:58 AM   #97
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Yeah, SF3 really is this odd duck. It was so amazing to think that finally Capcom would release SF3 and not just yet another edition of SF2... and it came out and it was weird an no one really liked it. More Darkstalkers than SF.
In terms of roster or gameplay?

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I think it was good, but I think part of it was that it just came out at the wrong time. For one thing, they probably waited too long by a year or two. For another, when it did come out the media was so focused on "Every single game needs to be 3D polygons, now" that SFIII was considered both a disappointment and a relic.
Indeed.
Just by virtue of being a 2D game, SF3 was doomed to fail at that moment.
Lack of familiar faces didn't help.

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From what I heard Alex was supposed to be the main character, but pressure had them bring in Ryu and Ken. But originally it was gonna be all new characters with Sean being the only possible link to Ken.
Alex is still main character in SF3, but story of the game is so non-existent, so it is not obvious at all. The same thing had happened with Abel in SF4. At least Capcom managed to make Rashid feel more like a protagonist in SF5.

New Generation was blatantly unfinished, because, usual Capcom policy regarding fighting games at the time was "release game as fast as possible and fix everything in later revisions". It had happened with Super Street Fighter 2: New Challengers and Street Fighter Alpha 1 - both were unfinished and had some blatantly broken stuff.

In case of New Generation, they couldn't even give all moves to all characters and Yang was clone of Yun. Second Impact is basically what New Generation was supposed to be, if not for Capcom usual meddling.

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Part 3s were weird man, like they had this extra pressure to really change and mix things up. SF3 was Ryu and Ken and bunch of weird new characters. Art of Fighting 3 was just Ryo and Robert and a bunch of weird new characters. Fatal Fury 3 brought back the Bogards, Mai and Geese, then a bunch of weird new characters. Mortal Kombat 3 mixed it up a bit with lots of new characters to replace old character as well as the return of Kano and Sonya with new looks. Tekken 3 only brought back a handful and the rest were all new characters (though to be fair some were sons or students of older characters).
Yeah, fighting games loved to experiment with 3rd parts.
Though, in case of Art of Fighting 3, technically it is a spin-off of the main AOF series, which is why it is so different. It was called "Art of Fighting 3" in the West only to sell more units.

This game is super gorgeous and one of my favorites, when it comes to the graphic style, but really has nothing to do with previous AOF games, aside from inclusion of Ryo and Robert.
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Old 05-15-2021, 09:00 AM   #98
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In terms of roster or gameplay?


Indeed.
Just by virtue of being a 2D game, SF3 was doomed to fail at that moment.
Lack of familiar faces didn't help.


Alex is still main character in SF3, but story of the game is so non-existent, so it is not obvious at all. The same thing had happened with Abel in SF4. At least Capcom managed to make Rashid feel more like a protagonist in SF5.

New Generation was blatantly unfinished, because, usual Capcom policy regarding fighting games at the time was "release game as fast as possible and fix everything in later revisions". It had happened with Super Street Fighter 2: New Challengers and Street Fighter Alpha 1 - both were unfinished and had some blatantly broken stuff.

In case of New Generation, they couldn't even give all moves to all characters and Yang was clone of Yun. Second Impact is basically what New Generation was supposed to be, if not for Capcom usual meddling.


Yeah, fighting games loved to experiment with 3rd parts.
Though, in case of Art of Fighting 3, technically it is a spin-off of the main AOF series, which is why it is so different. It was called "Art of Fighting 3" in the West only to sell more units.

This game is super gorgeous and one of my favorites, when it comes to the graphic style, but really has nothing to do with previous AOF games, aside from inclusion of Ryo and Robert.
My favorite part was Jin Fuha, a character that was in the game solely looking to fight Eiji Kisaragi from AOF2... a character that isn't in AOF3 at all. Unless that was made up for the American version.

Such a shame it's a forgotten or dropped subplot. KOF could have made these two finally face off.

Another thing is, I kinda wish KOF would bring back more Art of Fighting characters, I think the last character ever brought in was Lee Pai Long and his appearance is questionable since he was ripped from Neo Geo Battle Coliseum. Like they keep bringing in new Fatal Fury characters, the latest ones thrown into the mix being Raiden and Hwa Jai, but they still got a handful of Art of Fighting characters they can bring in, especially since the new games go all-out with new designs. If John Crawley looks too much like Guile, I'm sure a KOF 15 redesign would fix that.
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Last edited by Coola Yagami; 05-15-2021 at 09:06 AM.
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Old 05-16-2021, 05:06 AM   #99
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Tell me which ones of you have it on pc so i can add you on steam and play online!
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Old 09-01-2021, 03:21 AM   #100
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