Any fan of Green Lantern here? (comics)

[Avenger]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Yeah, it kinda goes to show you how much thought DC put into their books when for literally decades, the Guardians were just "The Guardians".

I really liked it when Appa Ali Apsa ("Old Timer") went mad. That was really neat. Like you'd think that would happen at some point, right? These cosmic, all-powerful beings that are older than the universe... you'd think one of 'em would lose their marbles at some point. Especially since they so often came off as jerkasses to begin with.

That was another thing I loved about Emerald Twilight. Hal finally called the Guardians out on being a pack of assholes, and all they could do was sit there like "......" because it was completely true. Up until then I thought it was just me.

Well, what happened at the end of Geoff John's run would pretty much define "loosing their marbles" They went evil just to be killed by Sinestro, and they were replaced by another bunch of undevelopped and unnamed Guardians. (Beside Ganthet)

Changing 4 quarters for 1$.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Avenger

Well, what happened at the end of Geoff John's run would pretty much define "loosing their marbles" They went evil just to be killed by Sinestro, and they were replaced by another bunch of undevelopped and unnamed Guardians. (Beside Ganthet)

Changing 4 quarters for 1$.

Yes, I found the backup set of Guardians who were left behind as guards millenniums ago a cheap plot device I thought would have been above Johns.

There is definite cues from Star Wars which the Jedi Council block out all aspects of emotion and it allows their enemy to exploit and kill them.

Avenger,did that eBay link be of any use to you?

[Avenger]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

Yes, I found the backup set of Guardians who were left behind as guards millenniums ago a cheap plot device I thought would have been above Johns.

There is definite cues from Star Wars which the Jedi Council block out all aspects of emotion and it allows their enemy to exploit and kill them.

Avenger,did that eBay link be of any use to you?

I checked yes, but unfortunately, since it's US and I'm in Canada, I think the shipping is going to be more expensive than 15$.

To be honest, I'm not sure how much energy and money I want to spend finding "unread old issues" because it's more about "I read it" than "I liked it and I'm going to read it again".

I still have some troubles with old dialogues and old artworks.

The trouble with Geoff John's run is that it was always "blockbuster" style. That's why I had so much trouble with Grant Morrison.

I read the 3 first issues of the new serie. So far, it seems to be John centered.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Avenger

I checked yes, but unfortunately, since it's US and I'm in Canada, I think the shipping is going to be more expensive than 15$.

To be honest, I'm not sure how much energy and money I want to spend finding "unread old issues" because it's more about "I read it" than "I liked it and I'm going to read it again".

I still have some troubles with old dialogues and old artworks.

The trouble with Geoff John's run is that it was always "blockbuster" style. That's why I had so much trouble with Grant Morrison.

I read the 3 first issues of the new serie. So far, it seems to be John centered.

That is why I dropped it after reading the Hal lead titles since GL:Rebirth in the Fall of 2004. It's not Hal centered so its not for me. It's too many green lanterns. Heck, it was hard enough balancing Hal, Kyle,John, and Guy and making them all relevant. Then to double the number and not even include Alan Scott in the count? Green Lantern seems to be a dumping ground for unnecessary diversity. I want my Hal Jordan centered title back. Since Morrison's The Green Lantern Season 2 #12 saw prin the only Green Lantern related book I bought was the recent annual because Hal was one of the two GLs it was centered on along with Cruz.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Avenger

Well, what happened at the end of Geoff John's run would pretty much define "loosing their marbles" They went evil just to be killed by Sinestro, and they were replaced by another bunch of undevelopped and unnamed Guardians. (Beside Ganthet)

Changing 4 quarters for 1$.

Yeah, and Geoff was determined to make the Guardians into bad guys, for some reason. I remember when there was the big thing about the Guardians making 10 rules for the GLC, but Geoff only bothered to reveal two of them before he just lost interest in the whole thing (as usual).

[MikeandRaph87]

On a related note, Ganthet only appeared twice before Emerald Twilight. His second appearance was in a storyarc titled 'The Third Law'. What is the third law or the first two for that matter?

Also, Hal vaporizes fellow green lanterns with his ring in Emerald Twilight. Yet later on there is said to be a default that prevent lanterns from killing with their rings.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

On a related note, Ganthet only appeared twice before Emerald Twilight. His second appearance was in a storyarc titled 'The Third Law'. What is the third law or the first two for that matter?

The first law was that energy cannot be created, the second law that every action causes a permanent loss of energy and the third law according to Krona was that "perfect peace can only come through absolute entropy." This was all surrounding the discovery that Krona tinkering with the Big Bang shortened the life of existence considerably.

But those aren't remotely the same things as the "laws" that the Guardians started rolling out in the middle of Geoff's run.

Also, Hal vaporizes fellow green lanterns with his ring in Emerald Twilight. Yet later on there is said to be a default that prevent lanterns from killing with their rings.

Hal vaporizing Green Lanterns (and it was only one, Kilowog, who didn't even exactly die) was during the reign of the original Guardians, about 30 minutes before they all committed suicide around the Central Power Battery (later comics would say "Hal killed the Guardians!" but this is blatantly untrue). They didn't have a no-killing thing. In fact, the GLs even executed Sinestro late into Vol. 2.

The no-killing thing was from the Guardians after those Guardians. Who were resurrected as male and female baby Guardians by Kyle in Vol. 3 #150 who then all had to grow up anew. These Guardians had rules about no-killing and later rules about love and such.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

The first law was that energy cannot be created, the second law that every action causes a permanent loss of energy and the third law according to Krona was that "perfect peace can only come through absolute entropy." This was all surrounding the discovery that Krona tinkering with the Big Bang shortened the life of existence considerably.

But those aren't remotely the same things as the "laws" that the Guardians started rolling out in the middle of Geoff's run.



Hal vaporizing Green Lanterns (and it was only one, Kilowog, who didn't even exactly die) was during the reign of the original Guardians, about 30 minutes before they all committed suicide around the Central Power Battery (later comics would say "Hal killed the Guardians!" but this is blatantly untrue). They didn't have a no-killing thing. In fact, the GLs even executed Sinestro late into Vol. 2.

The no-killing thing was from the Guardians after those Guardians. Who were resurrected as male and female baby Guardians by Kyle in Vol. 3 #150 who then all had to grow up anew. These Guardians had rules about no-killing and later rules about love and such.

The last issue of Green Lantern vol.2,right? Where he was apparently put in the central power battery? Though he reemerged before Emerald Twilight and faced Guy Gardner right?

I was not sure if it was a post-Infinite Crisis re-write stating that Green Lanterns did not kill to justify Geoff Johns narrative and part of Sinestro's motivations.

Yeah, the whole mass suicide thing was weird and I never understood why Hal was blamed for their 'deaths'. Maybe he drove them to the point where they felt it was necessary, but he did not pull the trigger.

[Avenger]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

On a related note, Ganthet only appeared twice before Emerald Twilight. His second appearance was in a storyarc titled 'The Third Law'. What is the third law or the first two for that matter?

Also, Hal vaporizes fellow green lanterns with his ring in Emerald Twilight. Yet later on there is said to be a default that prevent lanterns from killing with their rings.

So it means the Guardian in GL/GA wasn't Ganthet? I haven't read it for a long time, but I thought it was a "blueprint" for Ganthet or an early version of him.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Avenger

So it means the Guardian in GL/GA wasn't Ganthet? I haven't read it for a long time, but I thought it was a "blueprint" for Ganthet or an early version of him.

I am basing it off of the story as depicted in Ganthet's Tale as well as aDC Comics chronlo0gy archive DCU Guide. Perhaps he was proto-Ganthet? I am the expert on pre-crisis Batman, only Green Lantern: Rebirth onwards can I even claim with the character.

[Avenger]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

The first law was that energy cannot be created, the second law that every action causes a permanent loss of energy and the third law according to Krona was that "perfect peace can only come through absolute entropy." This was all surrounding the discovery that Krona tinkering with the Big Bang shortened the life of existence considerably.

But those aren't remotely the same things as the "laws" that the Guardians started rolling out in the middle of Geoff's run.



Hal vaporizing Green Lanterns (and it was only one, Kilowog, who didn't even exactly die) was during the reign of the original Guardians, about 30 minutes before they all committed suicide around the Central Power Battery (later comics would say "Hal killed the Guardians!" but this is blatantly untrue). They didn't have a no-killing thing. In fact, the GLs even executed Sinestro late into Vol. 2.

The no-killing thing was from the Guardians after those Guardians. Who were resurrected as male and female baby Guardians by Kyle in Vol. 3 #150 who then all had to grow up anew. These Guardians had rules about no-killing and later rules about love and such.

I don't know how much time passed "in universe" between last Kyle's issue and the starting of Rebirth, but it seems Geoff Johns never bothered to develop the baby guardians thing. When the GLC is rebuilt, they all are mature Guardians and no trace of the "education" Ganthet gave them.

And also Kyle's reaction "Wait! My ring can talk?". Totally strange considering how much time he was GL.

I loved Geoff's run, but reading all Kyle's run made me realise how little he cared about his predecessor's work.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

The last issue of Green Lantern vol.2,right? Where he was apparently put in the central power battery? Though he reemerged before Emerald Twilight and faced Guy Gardner right?

Eh... his spirit or something was in the CPB, inside the Yellow Impurity that looked like an organ within it (retroactively, I guess that was Parallax?). Not him, exactly. When the GLs zapped Sinestro to death, he was dead for a good while.

I was not sure if it was a post-Infinite Crisis re-write stating that Green Lanterns did not kill to justify Geoff Johns narrative and part of Sinestro's motivations.

I mean, maybe. By the same way that later on, later Geoff comics would pretend that the Guardians had always been 50/50 male and female when that was 100% not the case. They were all male for thousands of years until Kyle's social experiment. Geoff loves to retcon little things and pretend they've always been that way.

Yeah, the whole mass suicide thing was weird and I never understood why Hal was blamed for their 'deaths'. Maybe he drove them to the point where they felt it was necessary, but he did not pull the trigger.

It's mostly lazy writers who remember things wrong or never bothered to read them.

Originally Posted by Avenger

So it means the Guardian in GL/GA wasn't Ganthet? I haven't read it for a long time, but I thought it was a "blueprint" for Ganthet or an early version of him.

Not Ganthet and no blueprint. That Guardian was Appa Ali Apsa, who was driven mad after those adventures and became "The Mad Guardian," a villain.

[Leo656]

It's hard to believe that Geoff John pre-GL Rebirth and post-GL Rebirth are even the same guy. I like that story a lot but that seems to be the biggest fracture point.

Before that, he had a slew of good reboots under his belt and a decent reputation for "cleaning up" things that had gotten overcomplicated. Really good Flash, Teen Titans and JSA runs.

After that, nobody ever said "no" to the guy again and he had free reign to do absolutely anything, to the point where he quickly developed Grant Morrison "Only MY Books Are Canon" Syndrome.

He did some good stuff after, but since then he's very clearly been high on his own sh*t. Too bad.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Leo656

It's hard to believe that Geoff John pre-GL Rebirth and post-GL Rebirth are even the same guy. I like that story a lot but that seems to be the biggest fracture point.

Before that, he had a slew of good reboots under his belt and a decent reputation for "cleaning up" things that had gotten overcomplicated. Really good Flash, Teen Titans and JSA runs.

After that, nobody ever said "no" to the guy again and he had free reign to do absolutely anything, to the point where he quickly developed Grant Morrison "Only MY Books Are Canon" Syndrome.

He did some good stuff after, but since then he's very clearly been high on his own sh*t. Too bad.

I take it as proof positive that the good Geoff years (and look at the first few issues of GL Vol. 4 before the "Sinestro Corps War"... those were some good issues! and I didn't mind the SCW as a one off event until all we were getting were back to back events or writing crap for trades) were the result of editorial reining him in, Peter Tomasi in particular. As soon as Peter Tomasi stepped down as editor and started writing and Geoff only dealt with editors scared of him, his inner crap started to show bigtime and the kinds of stuff that he wanted to write about and "deal with" became pretty clear.

He stopped telling stories and stared just doing mega events with bullet points of things he wanted to "fix" throughout GL history.

[Leo656]

I blame his Hollywood influence.

I mean, as I understand it he was never a "big shot" but he'd done time as Donner's lapdog, and thus he was a "big shot" to the plebeians working within the comic book industry, who probably had stars in their eyes and were just amazed someone from a "real" entertainment arm would deign to have anything to do with them. And also, since he had Hollywood experience, "obviously" he was smarter and had better ideas than all of these lowly comic book writers.

That's what it always felt like to me. Within the realm of comics, he had a good start but quickly got out of control. Ever since Sinestro Corps it's like a pod person took over. I'm shocked they didn't just start inventing new colors so they could keep the whole "War of Light" plotline going for another decade. I liked the basic idea, until it became obvious "this is going to be the ONLY Green Lantern plot for the next hundred years". Then it all got boring.

[MikeandRaph87]

I got tired of the alliance of convince between Hal and Sinestro. It started in Blackest Night and went on until the end of Geoff's run with Green Lantern volume 5 #20. That was about 3 years worth of stories.

I understand that Geoff wanted to make Green Lantern more space opera, but I wanted to see the rebuilt Coast City and rouges like The Shark, Sonar, and Evil Star who all seemed to be left behind in the retooling of the mythos.

The lantern colors have gone beyond Geoff Johns. First Synder had the Ultraviolet Lantern. Now Bendis is introducing a gold lantern. Was the Ultraviolet Lantern ot ever resolved by Justice League#39 or was it resolved in Death Metal, the latter of which I did not read?

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

I got tired of the alliance of convince between Hal and Sinestro. It started in Blackest Night and went on until the end of Geoff's run with Green Lantern volume 5 #20. That was about 3 years worth of stories.

Geoff seemed pretty obsessed with Sinestro as the Greatest Green Lantern and in somehow redeeming him. He also seems to forget -- or ignore -- that Sinestro was responsible for the wiping out of an entire sector... literally trillions upon trillions of lives. There really shouldn't be any coming back from that.

I understand that Geoff wanted to make Green Lantern more space opera, but I wanted to see the rebuilt Coast City and rouges like The Shark, Sonar, and Evil Star who all seemed to be left behind in the retooling of the mythos.

Yeah. I didn't mind some kind of balancing act between space and Earth/Coast City... but just 99.9% space after Sinestro Corps War? Why did he even bother to bring back Coast City at all, then?

[MikeandRaph87]

Some things were amplified beyond expectations like the growth of the mythos, intertwining other characters like Star Sapphire, Black Hand, and Nekron while other things like having some Earth based stories taking away from Coast City and a few other villains and relationships like his younger brother and supporting cast. Its not all space, space, space. I understand Earth is but one planet and he is charged with an entire sector (how many solar systems is a sector though?), but one of the reasons Coast City is vulnerable is because Hal is off in space almost all the time.

In Flash#200 Barry tells Hal, 'You are well on your way Hal' and he responded, 'Well on my way'? To what?'. This was published over a year before Green Lantern: Rebirth was printed. So we know that Barry is aware of Hal's downfall and comeback. Yet how long before it actually happened was it decided Hal could be dusted off as Green Lantern? Obliviously, the character himself was only shelved for about two years between Parallax and Spectre so he important enough to stay around in some form. It is also interesting at how just months before this in response to Justice League cartoon John Stewart is allowed off the bench. Makes me wonder if DC did not have faith in Kyle and wanted to have all the green lantern mantle holders active to see if sales could take like 1992 intended and hold firm instead of flatline.

[Andrew NDB]

DC wanted another Emerald Twilight level spike in sales. Geoff pitched the Hal return. Then to be fair, Kyle gets an Ion ongoing series that... Geoff almost immediately out of the gate forces into being only a maxi-series so he can make Kyle a normal Green Lantern again and basically get lost in the GLC ensemble book for years. Which is weird because Geoff himself made Kyle into Ion in Infinite Crisis.

I think making Kyle into Ion was all well and good until it ran the risk of outshining his work with Hal in GL. Can't have that.

[MikeandRaph87]

Geoff stated in a CBR interview that he was approached by editorial and asked if he was a fan of Hal Jordan and if so would he be interested in pitching a return to the green lantern mantle. I am surprised that DC would want that assuming they would be all John Stewart because of the acclaimed cartoon. It appears that Hal Jordan fans got DC's attention and it even got a nod in other media.


I was not thrilled about Hal being included in the post-Infinite Crisis League and immediately replaced by John Stewart. I know that Dwayne McDuffie is the writer and head writer for the cartoon featuring John, but the blink and you miss it inclusion was irritating. I admit if its not a call for an iconic story John fits better organically but the bait switch miffed me.