Revisiting 2012

[Zog The Magnificent]

Originally Posted by sdp

What official information? Do you really want me to go full aspie and go point by point? I will. Granted I don't like the idea of the 2012 turtles having that future and the implications of it but it's a good story arc and canon, i can't change it.

Every single thing I cited was from official sources or based on official sources.

Originally Posted by sdp

Batman Beyond was always canon, it was always fans who said it might not because they didn't like bruce being a jaded old man. Later crossovers proved them wrong.

You are mistaken. Back when Batman Beyond was still on the air, the showrunners made many comments in both interviews and public comments on how Batman Beyond wasn't necessarily the definitive future. They always called it a "possible future," and it wasn't until the crossover episodes of Static Shock and Justice League that it was fully cemented as the definitive future.

Originally Posted by sdp

first of all quoting wikipedia with obvious fan slant, not even worthy of being included in the current page of wikipedia grasping at straws.

While it is true that Wikipedia can be edited by anyone, the information is constantly checked over and verified, and is generally correct and accurate. I wouldn't use it in an academic paper, but for something like this it is perfectly servicable, and I cited every source it used in its citations.

Originally Posted by sdp

So? Something being the "finale" doesn't mean it's the actual last episode.

This tweet was in specific response to people asking about whether or not Mutant Apocalypse was really the ending. This, combined with Ciero's comments on how he intended Mutant Apocalypse to be the ending, as well as Nickelodeon's comments and the fact that they rearranged the season to put it in the middle, clearly indicate that B&R was being treated as the ending and Mutant Apocalypse was rendered noncanon.

Originally Posted by sdp

Where does it say it's non canon? It's a tale from the future.

You are correct that the word "noncanon" does not actually appear. However, combined with the other statements, Mutant Apocalypse clearly fits into both "beyond" and "future."

Originally Posted by sdp

Not that it matters what some wagie working the social media account says, the account might be official but not necessarily what he types there. Social media managers get stuff wrong all the time.

Of course it matters. You can't just disregard it out of hand. This information came from an official source, and confirms that the special is considered noncanon by Nickelodeon.

Originally Posted by sdp

Again, this means nothing

The alternate possiblities line and the fact that it corroborates the above comment regarding an AU adds further evidence that the special is considered noncanon.

Originally Posted by sdp

First of all, that would be word of god and not necessarily screen canon. Second of all how would you reply to a fan who is basically saying they're going to commit sudoku because they're cartoon show for kids didn't end how they wanted it to end? AND even then he uses the word "could" which is a modal verb that expresses possibility at best and a vague statement of "for the audience to decide" AKA head canon. He sure didn't want to be in a news hit article of how a fan killed themselves because their headcanon is wrong.

Word of god is just as valid as on screen canon. If a creator clarifys something after the fact, as the creator of the work, and therefore the authority on it, anything they say has just as much bearing on the story as what is actually depicted. Auman's comments also both add credence to this idea, as well as the concept of Death of the Author, which at the very least, if you decide to disregard word of god, allows you to make your own conclusions. Personally, I believe a creator can give a definitive answer on what a work is or means, but not on what a person may get out of it.

Originally Posted by sdp

How is this damaging? Anyone can write those synopsis and they often include wrong information all the time, most fandoms don't consider that type of information as canon. And even then it doesn't state it's not canon.

"Anyone" in this case is Nickelodeon, the current owners of the property, who are therefore at liberty to decide what is and isn't canon. There is no point in trying to speculate whether or not the information is "correct" or not. It came from an official source regarding a fictional property, and nothing about it contradicts anything in the show. Ergo, it is correct. And once again, while the specific word "noncanon" does not appear, it explicitly refers to the mutant apocalypse arc as being in "another dimension"; as in, a dimension other than the one where all of the show takes place. In other words, it is noncanon as far as the rest of the show is concerned.

Originally Posted by sdp

Disney decides what canon is, all the EU is gone and anything Lucas wants is also non canon. Now I hate Disney star wars and just enjoy things whether canon or non-canon. but that doesn't mean the sequel trilogy didn't happen. it did and it sucks.

That wasn't the main point of that point. I know that Disney is currently in charge of determining canon. I was merely trying to explain why continuity is a tricky business with franchises. If Star Wars is ever sold to someone else, or heck, if the administration changes, they could easily render the movies noncanon, and in a way that they were never canon to begin with, just becoming weird elseworld tales. I think a better example would be a mainstream publisher like DC comics. In just one ongoing, a writer can write a story, only for the next writer to render it noncanon, only for the next writer to change it right back, only for one of their annual events to render the whole thing noncanon except for certain details which are still canon. When a work is in the hands of multiple people, canon is more of a guiding line than a hard and fast rule.