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Old 05-09-2022, 06:12 AM   #1
neatoman
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Does IDW have the right to reprint Volume 4?

So with the recent introduction of Seri in the IDW comics, I've been wondering about IDW's rights to print Volume 4.

Volume 4 is so far one of the few exceptions to the Mirage books IDW hasn't printed yet. Most of the exemptions made have been in regards to copyright/royalty disputes and the Tales reprints seemingly just stopped due to a lack of sales. But so far, most of Volume 1, 2 and 3 have been published and those ones concluded quite a while ago. So it is curious as to why they haven't bothered to print Volume 4 yet, I know Laird has the right to continue publishing the book but I've never heard him or anyone else say this would prevent IDW from printing it. The only other reason I could think of is that the book remains unfinished but that would not prevent them from publishing a trade of the issues that do exist.
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Old 05-09-2022, 11:18 AM   #2
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Yes there's no reason they wouldn't have the rights. They probably haven't done it since the series was never finished and stopped at issue 32. And unlike the Image series conclusion where they got to make 3 new issues to wrap up the series, here there's no way they'd convince Peter Laird to come back to do it.
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Old 05-09-2022, 11:26 AM   #3
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In the past Laird made allusions to IDW not having the right to reprint anything he put out after the sale happened. Which is, what, the last two issues of it?

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Yes there's no reason they wouldn't have the rights. They probably haven't done it since the series was never finished and stopped at issue 32. And unlike the Image series conclusion where they got to make 3 new issues to wrap up the series, here there's no way they'd convince Peter Laird to come back to do it.
It's hard to imagine him doing anything but scoffing at them. Because it's not like he ever "left." He still has his 18 comics a year clause. He never came out and said the book is cancelled. The next issue could drop next month for all we know, and I think that's the way he likes it.

"Hey hurry up and finish so we can put out these trades!" probably wouldn't do much. Or it might, but I doubt it.
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Old 05-10-2022, 04:29 AM   #4
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Oh, if only ...
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Old 06-03-2022, 05:41 AM   #5
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In the past Laird made allusions to IDW not having the right to reprint anything he put out after the sale happened. Which is, what, the last two issues of it?



It's hard to imagine him doing anything but scoffing at them. Because it's not like he ever "left." He still has his 18 comics a year clause. He never came out and said the book is cancelled. The next issue could drop next month for all we know, and I think that's the way he likes it.

"Hey hurry up and finish so we can put out these trades!" probably wouldn't do much. Or it might, but I doubt it.
I suppose it's possible that if IDW just went ahead and did the trades, despite lacking a conclusion, it could drum up interest and lead him to work on additional issues. IDW could then ask to collect those for another TPB, if it's more than a couple, or reissue a deluxe final volume if just a couple issues.

But that is all extremely unlikely. Still, probably less unlikely than IDW directly asking him to do the issues which, as you say, would probably just be scoffed at.
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Old 06-03-2022, 06:17 AM   #6
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It's hard to imagine him doing anything but scoffing at them. Because it's not like he ever "left." He still has his 18 comics a year clause. He never came out and said the book is cancelled. The next issue could drop next month for all we know, and I think that's the way he likes it.
Is it that he's butthurt over the reactions to volume 4? I mean, to be honest, volume 4 really was strange, and outright offputting. Some good ideas here and there, but overall just..."why?". I guess Laird sees opinions like mine, and it's made him resentful? I guess?
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Old 06-03-2022, 06:28 AM   #7
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I guess Laird sees opinions like mine, and it's made him resentful? I guess?
It did even back then. I was clearing out my Inbox last night, and found some old PMs from 2003 where members were talking about how they knew for a fact Laird was hawking the forum, as in the Vol. 4 letter column he'd often recite almost word-for-word various 'Drome members' specific criticisms and then give some kind of snarky rebuttal, usually in the vein of "If you don't like it, don't buy it."

He did it to me ONCE as I recall - I'd told an anecdote here about having a conversation with a DC/Marvel penciller I'd recently bumped into at a signing, we'd just been shooting the sh*t about comic book artists, and somehow Lawson's name came up and the guy (whose name escapes me now) had nothing good to say, basically something like "I've seen little kids draw better than that guy". And in the very next issue Laird had a whole screed defending Lawson and he specifically mentioned that anecdote and how such an indictment was "ridiculous". So I was like "Ahhhh, okay, I see how it is."

But there were quite a few others here he did the same thing with, as well, and apparently in more detail.

I mean, I do believe that seeing such a negative response did in fact kill any remaining enthusiasm he'd had for doing the book, and that is a shame. But as I've always said, in a commercial medium and a book about popular pop culture characters, much as I'm in favor of artists being true to their own vision I think you *do* owe your fanbase SOMETHING.

There was most likely a satisfying Happy Medium somewhere in between Laird's "pure vision" for the book and what the audience expected/demanded, and I feel like he never even attempted to find his way there and just stuck to the former out of spite, then blamed the fanbase when the book didn't do better and in turn he decided to take his ball and go home.

But yeah, he was always pretty salty that people here weren't huge fans. But I don't think he ever truly tried to understand or appreciate Why Not.
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Old 06-03-2022, 07:51 AM   #8
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It did even back then. I was clearing out my Inbox last night, and found some old PMs from 2003 where members were talking about how they knew for a fact Laird was hawking the forum, as in the Vol. 4 letter column he'd often recite almost word-for-word various 'Drome members' specific criticisms and then give some kind of snarky rebuttal, usually in the vein of "If you don't like it, don't buy it."

He did it to me ONCE as I recall - I'd told an anecdote here about having a conversation with a DC/Marvel penciller I'd recently bumped into at a signing, we'd just been shooting the sh*t about comic book artists, and somehow Lawson's name came up and the guy (whose name escapes me now) had nothing good to say, basically something like "I've seen little kids draw better than that guy". And in the very next issue Laird had a whole screed defending Lawson and he specifically mentioned that anecdote and how such an indictment was "ridiculous". So I was like "Ahhhh, okay, I see how it is."

But there were quite a few others here he did the same thing with, as well, and apparently in more detail.

I mean, I do believe that seeing such a negative response did in fact kill any remaining enthusiasm he'd had for doing the book, and that is a shame. But as I've always said, in a commercial medium and a book about popular pop culture characters, much as I'm in favor of artists being true to their own vision I think you *do* owe your fanbase SOMETHING.

There was most likely a satisfying Happy Medium somewhere in between Laird's "pure vision" for the book and what the audience expected/demanded, and I feel like he never even attempted to find his way there and just stuck to the former out of spite, then blamed the fanbase when the book didn't do better and in turn he decided to take his ball and go home.

But yeah, he was always pretty salty that people here weren't huge fans. But I don't think he ever truly tried to understand or appreciate Why Not.
TBF, Laird isn't impressed at all with what Nick/IDW has been doing either and usually gets upset if people ask him about it all. Which is probably why he has also stopped doing his blogs... And while there is a bit in v4 thats not great, its not terrible either.
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Old 06-03-2022, 08:03 AM   #9
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I mean, I do believe that seeing such a negative response did in fact kill any remaining enthusiasm he'd had for doing the book, and that is a shame. But as I've always said, in a commercial medium and a book about popular pop culture characters, much as I'm in favor of artists being true to their own vision I think you *do* owe your fanbase SOMETHING.

There was most likely a satisfying Happy Medium somewhere in between Laird's "pure vision" for the book and what the audience expected/demanded, and I feel like he never even attempted to find his way there and just stuck to the former out of spite, then blamed the fanbase when the book didn't do better and in turn he decided to take his ball and go home.
Yeah, this seems to happen very often with creators, more specifically in the comics fandom, and to be even more specific with TMNT in particular. I think there is also a happy medium between presenting your true vision as a writer, but also pleasing your fanbase. I also feel like some writers get very defensive about criticism, even the well meaning kind. I get some fans can be huge dicks about that, and some just troll without even really caring about the quality of writing. Still, I think, as a writer, it's all stuff that should be considered.

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TBF, Laird isn't impressed at all with what Nick/IDW has been doing either and usually gets upset if people ask him about it all. Which is probably why he has also stopped doing his blogs... And while there is a bit in v4 thats not great, its not terrible either.
I get why he isn't into the new stuff at all, and I don't get how the fans can be surprised by that if they knew anything about Laird, even if they enjoy the Nick/IDW stuff.

It's still a shame he's divorced himself from the fanbase, and will probably never finish volume 4. I didn't like a lot of it (some ideas, and content, I did think were pretty neat), but...I'd have liked to see it finished anyhow, just to see where his ideas were going.
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Old 06-03-2022, 08:11 AM   #10
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Laird basically tried to be all how David Lynch ended up doing "Twin Peaks: The Return", in the way he was all like "This is the story, it's not at all what you want/expect but tough rocks, deal with it."

It's just that David Lynch is DAVID LYNCH, and thus, Twin Peaks ended up being possibly even more compelling than anything the audience ever could have asked for. Whereas Laird's "pure" take just felt kind of... meandering and self-serving.

Watching "The Return", I was alternatively frustrated by not getting what I'd wanted and yet fascinated, intrigued, and overwhelmed by just how much BETTER it ended up being than any fanfic version I had in my head. That's the right way to do it.

Laird, sadly, is no David Lynch as a writer. But to be fair to him... nobody is. That guy's a f*cking madman and he just operates on a whole other level.

You think I like Snyder a bunch, don't let me get started on Lynch without bringing a blanket and some motherf*cking cocoa.
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Old 06-03-2022, 08:27 AM   #11
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Oh, I agree with you about Lynch. He's a master storyteller, and director. The reason Twin Peaks The Return was satisfying was because it wasn't just...like a series of disconnected ideas that didn't mesh well with the series that came before it. I think one of the reasons volume 4 came off as poorly as it did was partly because Laird seemingly threw a bunch of weird things into the story just for the sake of it, and there wasn't any pay-off for it (partly because it was unfinished). It just left readers not understanding the point of any of it. It didn't help that the main cast were all scattered about, doing different things, and not really interacting together much at all. There wasn't a 'connective tissue' to anything that was happening, so to speak, at least not one that we got to see.
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Old 06-04-2022, 04:51 PM   #12
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Oh, I agree with you about Lynch. He's a master storyteller, and director. The reason Twin Peaks The Return was satisfying was because it wasn't just...like a series of disconnected ideas that didn't mesh well with the series that came before it. I think one of the reasons volume 4 came off as poorly as it did was partly because Laird seemingly threw a bunch of weird things into the story just for the sake of it, and there wasn't any pay-off for it (partly because it was unfinished). It just left readers not understanding the point of any of it. It didn't help that the main cast were all scattered about, doing different things, and not really interacting together much at all. There wasn't a 'connective tissue' to anything that was happening, so to speak, at least not one that we got to see.
I kinda feel like, Laird was going with the idea of brothers growing up and going their separate ways. Before the whole Utrom multi-universe thing, the world was still relatively 'normal' so the Turtles were pretty much forced to stick together because they only had each other. But now that the world had aliens in it and it eventually became kinda normal to co-exist with them and the Turtles could easily blend in as fellow aliens, now they were free to branch out into the world and follow their own paths.

I'm assuming eventually Volume 4 would have ended with some big threat that made the Turtles get back together again. Now normally I would say this would end the story on a happy note, that the brothers will always be brothers and always be together.... but this is Mirage. It would not honestly not surprise me if after the Turtles defeat the threat and high-five and maybe have a happy family dinner or whatever there is some mention somewhere stating 'and this is the last time all four of them were together'.
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Old 06-04-2022, 06:47 PM   #13
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I kinda feel like, Laird was going with the idea of brothers growing up and going their separate ways. Before the whole Utrom multi-universe thing, the world was still relatively 'normal' so the Turtles were pretty much forced to stick together because they only had each other. But now that the world had aliens in it and it eventually became kinda normal to co-exist with them and the Turtles could easily blend in as fellow aliens, now they were free to branch out into the world and follow their own paths.

I'm assuming eventually Volume 4 would have ended with some big threat that made the Turtles get back together again. Now normally I would say this would end the story on a happy note, that the brothers will always be brothers and always be together.... but this is Mirage. It would not honestly not surprise me if after the Turtles defeat the threat and high-five and maybe have a happy family dinner or whatever there is some mention somewhere stating 'and this is the last time all four of them were together'.
Most of the Tales stories that take place sometime in the future, shows that the guys all go their own ways... which is most real life like scenario... Would have been nice for Laird to tell a few of those stories in v4 before it ended but... he did his own thing too.
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Old 06-04-2022, 09:07 PM   #14
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I'm assuming eventually Volume 4 would have ended with some big threat that made the Turtles get back together again. Now normally I would say this would end the story on a happy note, that the brothers will always be brothers and always be together.... but this is Mirage. It would not honestly not surprise me if after the Turtles defeat the threat and high-five and maybe have a happy family dinner or whatever there is some mention somewhere stating 'and this is the last time all four of them were together'.
That would still be a satisfying ending, if you ask me.
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Old 06-05-2022, 12:11 AM   #15
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That would still be a satisfying ending, if you ask me.
At this point, I'd take ANY ending. I hate loose ends more than I hate bad endings. I'd take the Necromomicon turning everyone into a chicken and then they all high five. At least then I could finally stop thinking about it.
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Old 06-05-2022, 12:11 AM   #16
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I wouldn't be surprised if Peter never really had an end in mind. That he was just going where the muse took him, wherever that might lead. I mean, probably a general sense of how each Turtle would end up in the distant future, not so much how that would be setup in Vol. 4's ending.
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Old 06-05-2022, 12:46 AM   #17
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Even if Peter won't finish it couldn't IDW hire Jim Lawson and Eric Talbot to finish it up?
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Old 06-05-2022, 01:00 AM   #18
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Even if Peter won't finish it couldn't IDW hire Jim Lawson and Eric Talbot to finish it up?
I think so. But they'd have to ignore like the last two issues Peter did. Like, they wouldn't legally be able to reference them at all, I think.

Would they have any inclination to do so? Highly doubtful. More likely that at some point, if he truly makes up his mind that he'll never, ever revisit it, Laird would just give Jim his blessing to do a completion on his own and have it published for him.
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Old 06-05-2022, 01:44 AM   #19
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I think so. But they'd have to ignore like the last two issues Peter did. Like, they wouldn't legally be able to reference them at all, I think.
Hmm I kinda missed the specifics of that. I know he had the rights to make like 2 comics a year or whatever. Is it maybe cause the last 2 issues were digital only or something?
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Old 06-05-2022, 01:48 AM   #20
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Hmm I kinda missed the specifics of that. I know he had the rights to make like 2 comics a year or whatever. Is it maybe cause the last 2 issues were digital only or something?
No, it's because Nickelodeon only owns everything Peter did up until the sale. The last two issues he did after the sale, so they don't own them.
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