Spider-Man: Into The Spider-Verse

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

I, for one, love the idea of Miles Morales becoming more prominent. I don't see it as Peter being dumped, but as an opportunity to finally let Peter mature a bit and maintain the "adult-Spider-Man" role. Miles can be the fresh, modern take on the classic Spider-Man myth, while Peter can evolve a bit with the older fans and show new types of struggles.

From what I've heard, I don't see anything mature about this Peter. And I will not support a movie that promotes a certain subject to kids. Especially not with such an iconic hero as this. It's not evolution, it's outright character assassination and I won't stand for it. #boycottspiderverse

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

From what I've heard, I don't see anything mature about this Peter. And I will not support a movie that promotes a certain subject to kids. Especially not with such an iconic hero as this. It's not evolution, it's outright character assassination and I won't stand for it. #boycottspiderverse

I probably respectfully disagree, but I'm not sure which subject or character assassination you are referring to. Have you been reading spoilers? Nothing I have seen from the trailers so far would indicate to me that Peter Parker has been treated disrespectfully as a character.

[TigerClaw]

I'm looking forward to Into The Spyderverse. I think Miles Morales is a good character to explore.

Here's a new clip from it.



Here's a little clip featuring Spider-Ham. And it pays homage to the classic Spider-Man theme.

[ZariusTwo]

This is why I'm not seeing the movie



This would NEVER happen between him and MJ. The very reason we got One More Day was because Quesada didn't want to promote something like this to kids with the character. Poor form Sony.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

This is why I'm not seeing the movie



This would NEVER happen between him and MJ. The very reason we got One More Day was because Quesada didn't want to promote something like this to kids with the character. Poor form Sony.

To each their own.

In my mind, that is exactly the type of thing that would happen to Peter Parker. Of course, if we want to get technical, only Stan could tell us, but I see the character as someone who works best when going through very real, emotional hardships, that we as readers face everyday.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

This is why I'm not seeing the movie



This would NEVER happen between him and MJ. The very reason we got One More Day was because Quesada didn't want to promote something like this to kids with the character. Poor form Sony.

Keep in mind that this is the Spiderverse. There are different universes of Peter Parker. In one universe Peter Parker became down on his luck and no longer wants to be a Superhero. Miles Morales's own universe has Peter Parker and Gwen Stacy dead. So to complain about that little detail is silly. When you consider that this isn't the regular universe Peter Parker. But another universe version. I have read that they almost cast Tobey Maguire as an older Peter Parker.
https://www.slashfilm.com/spider-man...tobey-maguire/

[sdp]

I get what they were going for but it does rub you the wrong way. I dunno, I have to admit some of my hype for this movie is gone.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by sdp

I get what they were going for but it does rub you the wrong way. I dunno, I have to admit some of my hype for this movie is gone.

It doesn't bother me at all. The Peter Parker we see is not our universe's Peter Parker. Its the Multiverse after all. So its nothing to worry about.

[AquaParade]

For some people, divorce is a part of life. It's not even that everyone who gets divorced wants divorce to be a part of their life.

I've always understood the "Brand New Day" controversy, in the way it feels ham-fisted, potentially out-of-character, unnecessary, etc...

But I didn't know Peter being divorced would not only deflate hype, but seemingly offend people.
Not judging anyone. I have my own personal hang-ups when it comes to certain elements in stories, so I can relate in that sense.

In this case though, I find it quite fitting for a character like Spider-Man, and I find it a bit touching that Peter is, once again, getting the decidedly non-superhero-like treatment. I can't imagine Clark Kent, Steve Rogers, or Reed Richards getting divorced, but Peter? That's definitely the "ol' Parker luck" in my eyes.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

For some people, divorce is a part of life. It's not even that everyone who gets divorced wants divorce to be a part of their life.

I've always understood the "Brand New Day" controversy, in the way it feels ham-fisted, potentially out-of-character, unnecessary, etc...

But I didn't know Peter being divorced would not only deflate hype, but seemingly offend people.
Not judging anyone. I have my own personal hang-ups when it comes to certain elements in stories, so I can relate in that sense.

In this case though, I find it quite fitting for a character like Spider-Man, and I find it a bit touching that Peter is, once again, getting the decidedly non-superhero-like treatment. I can't imagine Clark Kent, Steve Rogers, or Reed Richards getting divorced, but Peter? That's definitely the "ol' Parker luck" in my eyes.

In one universe. Peter Parker and Marry Jane had a child. and all 3 had Spider powers. that's from the Renew Your Vows Comics. That is another universe. So they can show what Peter Parker's life is like from different universes. Some might not agree to the outcomes. But its the multiverse after all. Decisions have different outcomes.

[sdp]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

It doesn't bother me at all. The Peter Parker we see is not our universe's Peter Parker. Its the Multiverse after all. So its nothing to worry about.

I don't think the movie knows what it wants to be, a Miles movie? Great idea! Oh but we don't want to alienate people so let's add peter, but we don't want him to overstage Miles so let's have him be a loser and have Miles be the one who reminds him and, wait so now it's a peter redemption story? Oh let's add multiverse spidermans because that will give the movie a popularity boost but they kinda not really mesh into the story too well.

That first teaser for the movie was great, but all details after have kinda gotten me to back off. I hope the movie is great, certainly the most excited i've been for a spider-man project since Spectacular.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by sdp

I don't think the movie knows what it wants to be, a Miles movie? Great idea! Oh but we don't want to alienate people so let's add peter, but we don't want him to overstage Miles so let's have him be a loser and have Miles be the one who reminds him and, wait so now it's a peter redemption story? Oh let's add multiverse spidermans because that will give the movie a popularity boost but they kinda not really mesh into the story too well.

That first teaser for the movie was great, but all details after have kinda gotten me to back off. I hope the movie is great, certainly the most excited i've been for a spider-man project since Spectacular.

Can't blame you for feeling this way based off the trailers. But it would be a mistake to criticize the coherence of the the movie, itself, without having seen it.

I'd agree that the marketing and trailers seem to give the impression that this could be a jumbled failure of a juggling act, but based on viewer-impressions, I'm inclined to believe this film knows exactly what it wants to be. Guess we'll just have to decide for ourselves.

My intention isn't to rag on anybody who isn't excited for this film, it's just to stir the pot a bit and try to understand why. Obviously, everything is subjective, but as a hardcore Spidey fan, I couldn't be more excited for this film. So I'm taken aback/interested in the general negative consensus around here.

[Leo656]

I personally don't like Spider-Man as a "legacy" character. Sometimes I think that works fine, with certain characters, other times I think it's a bit lazy.

A huge chunk of the 1990s stories were about solidifying the idea that "Peter Parker is Spider-Man, nobody else." Even during the Clone Saga, some of the best writers in the industry refused to work on the books because "They're not about Peter Parker, they're about Ben Reilly, and that's not the real Spider-Man." If so many stories historically hadn't been about "Only This Guy is Spider-Man", I might feel differently.

[oldmanwinters]

In my mind, Batman, Superman, Spider-man, Hulk, and Captain America were the superhero identities that lose most of their appeal if they are separated from their original alter-egos.

The best legacy/mantle heroes are Flash, Green Lantern and the rosters of teams like X-Men, Justice League, and the Avengers.

I love Terry McGinnis as Batman of the Future, but I don't think I'd love it if Bruce Wayne were completely out of the picture.

[Leo656]

We think alike on this, generally.

I especially take issue if the origin circumstances are of the "One in a million" variety, as with Spider-Man and Hulk. Once it's been established that "Anyone but this ONE guy would have died from this scenario", it feels cheap to repeat it.

Like, I love all the Flashes, but they really push the limit of this. To be fair, Jay and Barry had totally different accidents, and some versions of the tale have Barry subconsciously recreating his own accident with Wally, "Accidentally on purpose" so that he'd have a sidekick, and even that is pushing it.

I'm aware that Peter and Miles were created for separate universes, but they also often share one, and I think it dilutes the concept of Spider-Man. The whole point of this project seems to be, "We can have MANY Spider-People", and I'm simply not interested in that.

[AquaParade]

From a personal standpoint, I actually find legacy characters more relatable, in some instances, in that they are typically characters trying and struggling to live up to a legacy set by a great hero. A lot of us comic book fans are like that.

I think you get the best of both worlds with Miles as a legacy character. You get one Spider-Man that is able to grow, evolve, face new stories and problems that adults can relate to. As opposed to stagnating and repeating the same old tales over and over.
And you also get the classic myth with a modern update. Taking a formula we all love but giving it a fresh and exciting spin.

Call me crazy, but I am one of the people who was hoping the Superior Spider-Man would actually stick around for years to come, before Peter ever came back into the main series. "Why?" "Why would I want to lose such a great character like Peter in favor of a maniacal Doc. Ock in the role?"
Because it's fresh, exciting, imaginative, unpredictable (until it wasn't).
Because we were never going to lose Peter, between prequel comics, movies, video-games, bobble-heads, and his eventual return.
Because even when Peter was "dead", his presence was felt all over the book.
Because I enjoy fresh takes on stories, and sometimes, when a story has lasted for over 50 years, it's just more fun to start injecting new ideas to the core formula, rather than stagnate.
Hate on the execution all you want, I know Slott is divisive, but, to me, it was a great idea.

And while we're on the subject, one of my very favorite comic book runs features legacy characters - Grant Morrison's Batman and Robin. Fantastic comic book, in case anyone is interested. Probably best to start from Morrison's "Batman" run, however.

Anyways, I'll get off my soapbox now. I'm not trying to argue that I'm right and anyone who disagrees is wrong. Just sharing my perspective on the matter.

[Leo656]

It's okay, but only because Dick is a cool guy. Damien is consistently terrible and that's a whole other character that shouldn't exist, if you listen to me and Denny O'Neil.

I do think the Batman and Robin mantles are easier to accept being passed on, but that's kinda because it's been subtly implied since early on that's what might happen (and in fact has happened several times). They didn't spend decades telling us, "Only _____ can be ___-Man!" and then walk it back for questionable reasons. They're also just masks, there's no one-in-a-million "Only THIS GUY could've survived!" contrivances built into the origin. Nah'mean?

[Andrew NDB]

I probably won't even go and see this. It doesn't look bad or anything, it just doesn't seem like something I'd be interested in. I don't want to see a bunch of FAKE Spider-Men.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

I can't imagine Clark Kent, Steve Rogers, or Reed Richards getting divorced, but Peter? That's definitely the "ol' Parker luck" in my eyes.

Except it's horses*it, as the newspaper strip, Spider-Girl and Renew Your Vows comic depict him as a loving and devoted husband with a very stable relationship with MJ..and in two of those timelines he's also a very good father.

The perennial "Peter is a loser" idea is one exclusive to the last decade or so of mainline Marvel comics

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by Leo656

It's okay, but only because Dick is a cool guy. Damien is consistently terrible and that's a whole other character that shouldn't exist, if you listen to me and Denny O'Neil.

I do think the Batman and Robin mantles are easier to accept being passed on, but that's kinda because it's been subtly implied since early on that's what might happen (and in fact has happened several times). They didn't spend decades telling us, "Only _____ can be ___-Man!" and then walk it back for questionable reasons. They're also just masks, there's no one-in-a-million "Only THIS GUY could've survived!" contrivances built into the origin. Nah'mean?

I do think the crafting of these decade-long stories can definitely change how we interpret the idea of them becoming a legacy character. For instance, one of the themes Grant kept coming back to with his Batman run was the idea that Batman is forever, Batman never dies, Batman is more than a man, he's a symbol. Seeing Dick take up the mantle felt natural to the story.

And yeah, he's such a cool, likable guy. Dick Grayson was, oddly enough, one of my favorite hero's when I was super young, so coming of age and seeing him take on the mantle was impactful for me. I can see how that might be a personal feeling that others don't relate to.

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Except it's horses*it, as the newspaper strip, Spider-Girl and Renew Your Vows comic depict him as a loving and devoted husband with a very stable relationship with MJ..and in two of those timelines he's also a very good father.

The perennial "Peter is a loser" idea is one exclusive to the last decade or so of mainline Marvel comics

I guess I just don't see "being devoted 100% to his wife, no matter what" as a key character-trait of Peter Parker.

Do I think he's a great guy? Yes.
Do I think he loves Mary Jane deeply? Yes.
Do I think his life as a crime-fighter, along with a plethora of everyday human-issues could come between a marriage? Definitely.

Relationships are complicated. Peter going through a divorce is just another issue on a long-list of personal problems he's always had. It doesn't mean he's a bad person or no longer true-to-character. He just makes mistakes, has trouble balancing his obligations, and learns hard lessons. He struggles through life. He tries to be the best he can be, but he does make mistakes.
Who's to say that he is even to blame for the divorce? Often times, no one is to blame.

That's how I see it. Obviously.