Do you think the show is fat-shaming some of the characters?

[Leo656]

Not gonna lie, having a ton of overweight and generally unhealthy people in my family, my empathy only goes so far. And there's a difference between being a little overweight and morbidly obese. Having studied more than a little bit about what goes into making people THAT overweight, I have no choice but to view it the same way I do the "disease" of addiction: An entirely self-inflicted condition based on knowing that what you are doing is bad for you, doing it anyway, acting surprised when it causes serious negative effects to your health, and then expecting other people to feel sorry for you and/or help you through life. 20lbs overweight is one thing; when you're 300lbs, you did it to yourself and have no reason to be happy about it.

The biggest reason I became a trainer was, it really sucked watching my parents struggle with their weight-related health issues my whole life. If I can help people avoid those problems, I'm more than happy to do so. And I do everything I can to encourage my clients in their progress and make sure they're proud of every milestone they hit along the way. I never, ever make anyone feel bad. But, I usually don't have to. The entire reason they hire me is, they're already unhappy, they want to change, they don't know how and are smart enough to know that they probably can't do it without help. I don't have to pile on, and I wouldn't, anyway, because I know how hard it is. I don't advocate anyone getting themselves to that point. But I don't delude myself to think that it's easy to live that way.

What kills me, though, what I get fed up with every single day, are the excuses that some - not all - overweight people insist upon as to why they're "stuck" the way they are. No time to exercise. Don't know how to eat right. It's their genetics. Had a bad day and just didn't feel like working out (My wife pulled that one today, mere minutes after bragging to someone how she just started working out again and is oh so committed to it ). No money to join a gym. All day every day, I listen to these types of people somehow try and convince me it's the world's fault that their body fat is an astronomical 40%, with a visceral (internal organ) fat level of 15%, which is "Call the f*cking hospital, this person's veins are full of gravy" unhealthy. There are practical solutions for every single one of those problems, and some people plain don't want to hear it. Those people, I have no sympathy for.

[Coola Yagami]

Sometimes I wonder how people get that big and still be alive. I hate to admit I'm not as slender now as when I was half my age, but I'm pretty sure I'd die of cholesterol or a heart attack before I get to weigh 300 pounds or so. Or big enough where I can't even walk and need one of those motorized wheelchairs.

[plastroncafe]

You want to know what Fat-Shaming is?
Fat-Shaming is the assumption that every overweight person is that way because they're lazy. Because they only sit in their basement playing video games. That they lack social skills.

Fat-Shaming is the assumption that you can't be loved or love until you can ruck a marathon. Just one more crunch or push up and maybe, just maybe you'll earn the right to be a full-fledged human being in the eyes of those around you.

You might not call it shame, but that's exactly what it is.
And it's gross, as are the people who perpetuate that mindset.

As I said before, the argument could be made that Nick TMNT participates in fat-shaming.
A simple: No, I don't know that it does because not every fat person on the show is like that
Would have ended the conversation. Any argument can be made, but not any argument can be supported intelligently.

But instead what we got in this thread was a bunch of people supporting the thesis. That Timothy's weight was indicative of his character. That he's fat to showcase his laziness. How could someone fat be a hero?! What a laugh!

It's gross.

I don't have to be able to take ten flights of stairs without getting winded to have healthy self-esteem. Nor should I.

I eat healthy, I bike and walk everywhere because I choose not to own a car, and I'm still overweight. Obese if the BMI chart is to be trusted. All this: but but but...you're unhealthy! Think of the children! It's not shame it's realism! Is nothing but concern trolling. And it's gross.

[Cure]

Cartoons sure bring out the best in people.

[pennydreadful]

Originally Posted by Konchadunga

Finally, I do not want the media telling people they should fall in love with inner beauty; at least not when it's a fat person who can do something about it. People should be willing to put in some damned effort if they want a romantic relationship. Inner beauty to me entails self-discipline and industriousness.

I'll give you this, though, society should focus more on what people should do instead of what they shouldn't. Blanket statements like "fat is bad" certainly can lead to anorexia, but if we could just promote a new cultural model to the forefront to kill off the "Twiggy" ideal, then we could have a happy medium. I say ability to do things should be a judge of fitness. Encourage people, women included, to build muscle; it burns fat more gracefully than purge diets, and also requires too much fuel to permit starvation.

... what, so people who don't fit a certain standard of attractiveness don't deserve to have relationships? A person's personality means nothing if they're not thin? Dude, I'm sorry, but that's way out - I can't get behind that.

People come in all different shapes and sizes. Even if you started promoting a more muscular beauty standard, that's no different than the sizeism that we've currently got at work here - and given that huge numbers of men are falling victim to eating disorders due to the current media obsession with muscled men, I really don't see how that wouldn't be harmful.

Nobody's saying that all fat people are healthy, or that everyone suddenly has to get a boner over fatties. I'm not saying that at all. But vice versa, not all fat people are unhealthy, and fat itself is not an indication of laziness or a lack of self respect. You can feed two people the exact same diet with the exact same exercise and they're not going to be the same weight.

This conversation is getting seriously depressing.

[ssjup81]

I'm fat myself and the main thing wrong with me is that I'm diabetic, but regardless of size I probably would've gotten it anyway, slim or big. My father has it, his mother had it. My mother's father had it, his mother had it, my mother's mother has it (but in her case she got it when older). I was bound to get it. A couple of my mother's sisters are diabetic. My mother inherited blood pressure problems, despite exercising and stuff when young. She got it while young and slim. She has it under control though, despite being bigger than she was in her 20s/30s. She's in her late 50s now.

I have an aunt who is big and she has no health problems, she's only overweight. Surprising too in general to most.

Size doesn't mean anything health wise.

[CyberCubed]

I can't believe this thread has turned serious.

[pennydreadful]

Yeah... think I'm gonna bow out at this point - this is all making me a bit sad and regardless, I've said my piece. Folks on either side of the argument aren't going to change their opinions either way.

[Konchadunga]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

You want to know what Fat-Shaming is?
Fat-Shaming is the assumption that every overweight person is that way because they're lazy. Because they only sit in their basement playing video games. That they lack social skills.

I never argued that every fat person is fat for that reason. However, it's obvious that Timothy is. Fat isn't his only; maybe not even main problem, but it's indicative that he doesn't have the work ethic he needs; as is his buffoonish, self-important attitude.

Fat-Shaming is the assumption that you can't be loved or love until you can ruck a marathon. Just one more crunch or push up and maybe, just maybe you'll earn the right to be a full-fledged human being in the eyes of those around you.

You might not call it shame, but that's exactly what it is.
And it's gross, as are the people who perpetuate that mindset.

Maybe, but I never went nearly that far; nor did the show.

As I said before, the argument could be made that Nick TMNT participates in fat-shaming.
A simple: No, I don't know that it does because not every fat person on the show is like that
Would have ended the conversation. Any argument can be made, but not any argument can be supported intelligently.

But instead what we got in this thread was a bunch of people supporting the thesis. That Timothy's weight was indicative of his character. That he's fat to showcase his laziness. How could someone fat be a hero?! What a laugh!

It's gross.

You are twisting my words. A fat person can be a hero of sorts, certainly. He can be a good lawyer who saves you in court. He can be a politician who passed laws that help you. He can be a good father.

But sorry, no; he should not be an in-the-field soldier. He's too pudgy to move easily; let alone stealthily, and the question as to whether his being fat is indicative of his laziness is pointless, because all things about him point to that. He's enthusiastic; yes, but he's a fanboy with no realistic view of what this sort of thing takes. I do not know why this is seen as a bad impression on children, and honestly, the theory that he's fat because he's lazy is a lot more pleasant to children than that he just has very bad genes; as the former is seen as surmountable.

I mean, for Lord Simultaneous's sakes, what the shell is next? Whining about negative portrayal of smokers and alcoholics, and that it isn't their fault and they're still good people, which somehow negates that? That's what's gross.

I don't have to be able to take ten flights of stairs without getting winded to have healthy self-esteem. Nor should I.

I eat healthy, I bike and walk everywhere because I choose not to own a car, and I'm still overweight. Obese if the BMI chart is to be trusted. All this: but but but...you're unhealthy! Think of the children! It's not shame it's realism! Is nothing but concern trolling. And it's gross.

Well I'm sorry to hear your predicament, but that doesn't give you an excuse to to condemn people for railing against the genuine but preventable obesity "epidemic" infecting many children. It's bad enough that TV geared towards them is constantly whetting their appetite for unhealthy food; we can't stand to lose the occasional cartoon with an anti-obesity message. Again, this may be a part of some people's genetic identity, but for far more people, it's something they just picked up from something they've encountered, like a drug habit or a rash. It's not something to embrace.

Originally Posted by pennydreadful

... what, so people who don't fit a certain standard of attractiveness don't deserve to have relationships? A person's personality means nothing if they're not thin? Dude, I'm sorry, but that's way out - I can't get behind that.

You don't have to. It's every person's choice what he or she is attracted to. However, as harsh as it is, people need to realize that none of them are ever owed a relationship. If they're fat, and they find someone who likes/tolerates fat people, well lucky them, but it shouldn't surprise them if they don't, and at some point, if they're serious about wanting a partner, they should resolve to work on their figure instead of weeping about how shallow people are. You once again put words in my mouth with this "personality doesn't matter" business--of course it does. But what someone chooses based on how others feel is a big part of personality, and those choices can be both mental and physical. Choosing to exercise, choosing to wash, choosing not to pick your nose or fart in public, choosing not to throw temper tantrums at trivial things; all of these are choices that can make life easier for people who want a relationship.

People come in all different shapes and sizes.

And they also change them to others. You simply cannot stress the "this is part of being a special snowflake" argument too far.

Even if you started promoting a more muscular beauty standard, that's no different than the sizeism that we've currently got at work here - and given that huge numbers of men are falling victim to eating disorders due to the current media obsession with muscled men, I really don't see how that wouldn't be harmful.

My suggestion of a muscular ideal was not really in reference to an unrealistic, statuesque physique that requires more effort than most are willing to put in. The word I used was "medium"; a functional body. I don't think too many people would go overboard trying to be medium, and less people would feel ashamed by such an ideal, too.

Nobody's saying that all fat people are healthy, or that everyone suddenly has to get a boner over fatties. I'm not saying that at all. But vice versa, not all fat people are unhealthy, and fat itself is not an indication of laziness or a lack of self respect.

It's more accurate to say that not all fat is bad. Bodies need some of it to perform vital functions. A layer of it is there to protect the heart. However, get it too much, and there is no dancing around the hazards. As it gets heavier, that fat layer over the heart doesn't merely protect it anymore; it subjects it to risk. That a fat person may be able to do some other physical tasks well does not negate that anatomical factor. You need fat for many athletic endeavors, but past a certain point, you're stabbing yourself.

You can feed two people the exact same diet with the exact same exercise and they're not going to be the same weight.

So what? I already acknowledged multiple things in relation to that in past posts; such as that weight is not necessarily fat, and for genuine bad chemistry, there are medical solutions. If people have value for their health and one method fails, try another, but do something.

This conversation is getting seriously depressing.

This conversation was depressing from the start. Seriously; this has First-World problem written all over it in lard. People are starving in many parts of the world that never see obesity, and here, there are people whining about shaming it? I'm appalled. You people who think fat is part of what defines who you are, look around you. This is a result of a manufactured, spoiled society where you have the luxury to do that. There's no heroic individuality there; just taking from the trough on easy street. I'm done. In the words of one famous fat man, "You know what grinds my gears? You, America! **** You!"

[The Turtle Terminator]

Whos Martin?

[snake]

Originally Posted by The Turtle Terminator

Whos Martin?

Sir Malichi, if that's how you spell it.

[kolaida]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Not gonna lie, having a ton of overweight and generally unhealthy people in my family, my empathy only goes so far. And there's a difference between being a little overweight and morbidly obese. Having studied more than a little bit about what goes into making people THAT overweight, I have no choice but to view it the same way I do the "disease" of addiction: An entirely self-inflicted condition based on knowing that what you are doing is bad for you, doing it anyway, acting surprised when it causes serious negative effects to your health, and then expecting other people to feel sorry for you and/or help you through life. 20lbs overweight is one thing; when you're 300lbs, you did it to yourself and have no reason to be happy about it.

The biggest reason I became a trainer was, it really sucked watching my parents struggle with their weight-related health issues my whole life. If I can help people avoid those problems, I'm more than happy to do so. And I do everything I can to encourage my clients in their progress and make sure they're proud of every milestone they hit along the way. I never, ever make anyone feel bad. But, I usually don't have to. The entire reason they hire me is, they're already unhappy, they want to change, they don't know how and are smart enough to know that they probably can't do it without help. I don't have to pile on, and I wouldn't, anyway, because I know how hard it is. I don't advocate anyone getting themselves to that point. But I don't delude myself to think that it's easy to live that way.

What kills me, though, what I get fed up with every single day, are the excuses that some - not all - overweight people insist upon as to why they're "stuck" the way they are. No time to exercise. Don't know how to eat right. It's their genetics. Had a bad day and just didn't feel like working out (My wife pulled that one today, mere minutes after bragging to someone how she just started working out again and is oh so committed to it ). No money to join a gym. All day every day, I listen to these types of people somehow try and convince me it's the world's fault that their body fat is an astronomical 40%, with a visceral (internal organ) fat level of 15%, which is "Call the f*cking hospital, this person's veins are full of gravy" unhealthy. There are practical solutions for every single one of those problems, and some people plain don't want to hear it. Those people, I have no sympathy for.

I wish you could help my mother. She has tried everything, including surgery (and followed the instructions to a t but did not lose nearly the amount she thought she would). She also has something wrong with her feet (.planter something) and has had surgery on them both. I don't think she has ever had a trainor, though. Maybe I should suggest it?

[BubblyShell22]

My mom developed diabetes a few years ago, and while she's not morbidly obese, she was kind of heavy. She got herself on a diet and things improved. But then stress started to get to her and she began getting back into unhealthy eating patterns again. I told her not to eat foods that would give her the runs and to get back on a diet. She went to the doctor and found out her protein was high and had to have an ultrasound on her liver, gallbladder, and kidney on Friday. She found out she has fat in her liver, and that she just needs to keep going on her diet as she's been doing. So far, things have been fine with her, and I'm glad that she's eating healthier. I told her not to let the stress get to her and not to let my sister get to her and cause her to eat like that because that's just what's the problem. I think she's finally listening to me, and that's a good thing. It's one of the reasons I'm glad I still live at home because if I wasn't here to encourage her, she'd probably still be eating like that. I certainly didn't shame her or make her feel bad, but I showed genuine concern for her well-being. There's nothing wrong with doing that as it shows that you care.

So that's my two cents on that.

[kolaida]

Thanks, I think I will suggest something. I know she keeps trying and it must just feel like the never ending tunnel for her. I know she'd be happier without the weight and it depresses her.

[Papenbrook]

Wow... I didn't know the thread would become so personal. I apologize if I made anyone upset with my thread. I hope you can forgive me.

This thread needs to be locked for everyone's sake.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by kolaida

I wish you could help my mother. She has tried everything, including surgery (and followed the instructions to a t but did not lose nearly the amount she thought she would). She also has something wrong with her feet (.planter something) and has had surgery on them both. I don't think she has ever had a trainor, though. Maybe I should suggest it?

By surgery, I'm assuming it was gastric bypass or "stomach stapling", something to that effect? Those surgeries notoriously have a high rate of rebound weight gain and a host of other complications. I understand why people do it - a friend's wife lost almost 200lbs that way and honestly looks terrific - but I'm disturbed by how common it's become, and have read a lot of horror stories about people who were sold on it as a "quick fix" by unscrupulous doctors, only to either not lose the weight or gain it back quickly, along with myriad other health issues. Again, I only assume that's the surgery you're referring to, though.

First she should have an in-depth physical from her doctor, because it sounds like her condition(s) carry some physical limitations. Usually - especially if a person has had surgery - there may be some exercises a person shouldn't or can't do. Depending on her condition, she may be best off doing some physical therapy rehabilitation first to make sure all her joints are in good shape, before undertaking a more strenuous physical exercise program. Losing weight - especially an extreme amount - is a long, slow road. People hate to hear that, but it's the truth. There isn't any easy way. A person NEEDS to have a proper balance of strength training, cardio training, and proper diet. If any one of those things is not on the mark, progress will be slow to nonexistent. And most importantly, people need to realize there will never be a time when you're "done". Your body isn't like a sculpture, where once you hit your ideal "self" it stays that way forever, and you can just stop exercising and eating right. You'd be amazed how often I get asked, "So once I lose the weight, I can quit all this, right?" It has to be just another part of life. You eat breakfast every day, you take a shower every day, you brush your teeth every day, you hit the gym every day. That's the only way it works. If it came in a box, we'd all have it.

Also: Low-intensity yoga may be of great help. People scoff, but I've seen people who were on crutches, who were told they would NEVER walk normally again, who were 300+lbs, lose almost 150lbs in one year and not only walk without crutches, but RUN. Check this video out:
http://ddpyoga.com/

Once I saw that, I stopped believing in excuses. I believe anyone can be healthier to SOME degree, regardless of limitations. Olympic-level athletes, maybe not, but we all have limitations. The trick is, not giving up until you find a way to circumvent them. You only get one life; I feel it's a disservice to one's self not to be as healthy as possible.

Best of luck to your mom. Sounds like starting out will be rough, and finding the right way to start will require some help, but anyone who is committed can find a way. Hope she finds her path.

[saintsaucey]

I'm six foot and around 280. I walk around 9 miles a day 6 days a week. I eat basicly 2 meals a day. No sides.

[snake]

[kolaida]

Originally Posted by Leo656

By surgery, I'm assuming it was gastric bypass or "stomach stapling", something to that effect? Those surgeries notoriously have a high rate of rebound weight gain and a host of other complications. I understand why people do it - a friend's wife lost almost 200lbs that way and honestly looks terrific - but I'm disturbed by how common it's become, and have read a lot of horror stories about people who were sold on it as a "quick fix" by unscrupulous doctors, only to either not lose the weight or gain it back quickly, along with myriad other health issues. Again, I only assume that's the surgery you're referring to, though.

First she should have an in-depth physical from her doctor, because it sounds like her condition(s) carry some physical limitations. Usually - especially if a person has had surgery - there may be some exercises a person shouldn't or can't do. Depending on her condition, she may be best off doing some physical therapy rehabilitation first to make sure all her joints are in good shape, before undertaking a more strenuous physical exercise program. Losing weight - especially an extreme amount - is a long, slow road. People hate to hear that, but it's the truth. There isn't any easy way. A person NEEDS to have a proper balance of strength training, cardio training, and proper diet. If any one of those things is not on the mark, progress will be slow to nonexistent. And most importantly, people need to realize there will never be a time when you're "done". Your body isn't like a sculpture, where once you hit your ideal "self" it stays that way forever, and you can just stop exercising and eating right. You'd be amazed how often I get asked, "So once I lose the weight, I can quit all this, right?" It has to be just another part of life. You eat breakfast every day, you take a shower every day, you brush your teeth every day, you hit the gym every day. That's the only way it works. If it came in a box, we'd all have it.

Also: Low-intensity yoga may be of great help. People scoff, but I've seen people who were on crutches, who were told they would NEVER walk normally again, who were 300+lbs, lose almost 150lbs in one year and not only walk without crutches, but RUN. Check this video out:
http://ddpyoga.com/

Once I saw that, I stopped believing in excuses. I believe anyone can be healthier to SOME degree, regardless of limitations. Olympic-level athletes, maybe not, but we all have limitations. The trick is, not giving up until you find a way to circumvent them. You only get one life; I feel it's a disservice to one's self not to be as healthy as possible.

Best of luck to your mom. Sounds like starting out will be rough, and finding the right way to start will require some help, but anyone who is committed can find a way. Hope she finds her path.

You're correct, it was gastric, she did it when it first starting gaining popularity around ten years ago and has had crazy issues since. Thanks, I will recommend physical therapist, I know her feet have been major issues and I think it would benefit her if she could get in touch with someone who has experience and knowledge training people who've had weight loss surgery but it was not as successful as they thought it would be. I hope she finds her path, too. Thank you!

[Leo656]

While we're at it, go ahead and put all of these "methods" on the Avoid At All Costs list. ((Shudder))
http://www.cracked.com/article_21141...are-legal.html