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Old 12-11-2021, 07:17 PM   #821
Leo656
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People saw Teela's haircut and made up their entire opinion about the show six months in advance, then sat down to watch it specifically looking for things to hate about it, sooo yeah, you can actually blame the audience. Or at least, the very large portion who preemptively decided six months in advance that it was "Teh worst show EVAR!"

For one thing, even trying to claim that Revelations is "just" the "worst" He-Man related show is false, because "New Adventures" exists. It's not the BEST thing ever, either, but the hyperbolic caterwauling from some people throughout this entire ordeal has been absolutely arduous.

What tickles me is that these people still actually think they want a He-Man movie. After ALL THIS sh*t, the fanbase actually THINKS they want a live-action He-Man movie. No, you don't want that. We've seen what happens when old stuff gets brought back and we've seen how "fans" react. A movie would only be the nuke that kills the brand for good once the audience tears itself apart over whether it was "brilliant" or "trash".

I liked the series just fine, but at the end of the day its biggest impact on me has only been to galvanize my position that "dead" properties need to stay dead, outside of having memorabilia made of them. Toys and stuff based on old properties like MOTU and TMNT are fine, but the absolute LAST thing we should be doing is "reimagining" them for a "new audience" (or a nostalgic Older Audience). The longer time goes on, the more fractured the audiences for these properties becomes, to the point where they simply cannot agree on which parts of a brand are "vital" or not, and thus, any new version cannot ultimately be satisfying to ANY but a slim minority of the fanbase, because the rest are too busy arguing about whether or not it was even a sincere attempt. Things like "Revelation" or "Rise of the TMNT" come out, and are either "perfectly right" or "perfectly wrong" depending on who you ask, and with every new iteration, what was once a collective community becomes an ever-more fractured series of sub-groups, each convinced that ONLY their take on the property is best. The more "new versions" of a thing are created, the more and more the problem becomes compounded. Eventually, the brand in question no longer has any viability to old OR new audiences, because there is no remaining "audience", just a fractured series of adjacent splinter-groups who can't agree on anything.

So while I liked the show just fine, it really only convinces me that This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things, and I don't really care to see more. That means ANY more MOTU outside of toys, which are fine and where this brand needs to stay, going forward. TMNT, same thing. Any new cartoons or movies are a gigantic waste of time and resources, at this point, considering how entitled, whiny, and schizophrenic their fanbases are. There really is no point in continuing either franchise, or ANY "dead" brand, outside of selling plastic trinkets to people. All it does is speed up their decline by further fracturing the fanbase.

Some people will insist that this is all because "Revelation was terrible", but no. Not only is it actually not terrible, but this would've happened regardless of the product they made, the arguments would just be coming from slightly different directions. There just is simply no way that any new MOTU cartoon (or movie) would ever receive unanimous acclaim, considering just how wildly disparate so many people's opinions on the brand itself are. The fallacy is in even WANTING more cartoons, or a movie, when we've seen very vividly how the audience will react to even the most innocuous of things.

Just let stuff die and be content buying action figures. There IS no such thing as an "evergreen property" and people need to be okay with things ending for good. I've been saying it about TMNT for years, and after all of this I'm definitely okay with MOTU going away, too. Aside from the toys, of course. But again, past a certain point that's all any brand becomes - a vehicle for nostalgia toys. Every "iconic character" eventually gets retired and only exists as a doll. That's how they "endure". So, just let that be okay and STOP trying to "bring things back". It's the natural order of things AND it allows these "fandoms" to finally rest in peace and not be screaming over every single dumb little thing they don't like about a property.

Like, I'd sincerely rather that nobody ever make a MOTU cartoon or movie ever again, so long as the fans would stop making themselves look like exactly the whiny babies the internet paints them as. It's far too late for me to not hate TMNT fans, but I'd prefer that the MOTU audience not sink quite so low. Sadly, this show seems to have facilitated that, and to say I'm disappointed would be an understatement.

I can't even imagine how people would have raged if we'd gotten an ACTUAL bad show. Like, if they did "Rise", but with MOTU characters. Jesus Christ.
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Old 12-12-2021, 01:51 AM   #822
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It's really just Revelation that's getting the flack, there's more positivity towards the CG He-Man show and that's barely He-Man recognizably. but is a lot more fun and aimed at the right audience
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Old 12-12-2021, 02:45 AM   #823
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I don’t care much for the new cartoon. But I think that is simply because I’m just not the audience. I don’t think I hate it, I just don’t feel anything.
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Old 12-12-2021, 05:05 AM   #824
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So much for Smith being one of "nerds".
He is just as disconnect from them as any other "normie".
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Old 12-12-2021, 06:27 AM   #825
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@Leo You have some good points but there are some disagreements I have.

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Toys and stuff based on old properties like MOTU and TMNT are fine, but the absolute LAST thing we should be doing is "reimagining" them for a "new audience" (or a nostalgic Older Audience).
Reimagining a franchise is just fine, but it still has to be recognizable. If you change what people love about it, or change things just to change them and remove a core part of the franchise you will have a lot of arguements and flack going on. We have some good examples right now...

1. He-man Revelations. They changed the formula and all but removed the iconic hero from his lead position. We can argue about details, but when push comes to shove the He-man franchise was no longer about He-man and one of the prominent side characters is now the most important character. On the flip side, the new CG is pretty well received (the groups I am part of are mostly either neutral towards the show or positive, I see very little negative). Its fun. Its not billed as something its not. It still mostly keeps the formula they established to make it recognizable.

2. Cowboy Bebop. They did alright for Spike and Jet, but changed Faye completely, then bastardized a popular side character in a show about story. Her dynamic in the show was key to certain stories and feelings that the director and writer was going for which turned their wanting to remake the show into a joke.

3. TMNT. I know there is a lot of back and forth on which ones are good and which ones aren't, but when I look around I don't see near the amount of animosity between the reboots as I do in other franchises. I am newer so I might have missed some prior argumentations. The properties are recognizable between iterations. However, I have seen the backlash when they leave that basic recognizability in what's happening in 2 years of IDW mutant town.

My big thing is...taking and rekerjiggering these properties is fine, but you still need to be able to identify them. MoTU is about He-man and friends. TMNT is about the 4 artist named ninja turtles. Not doing so leads to what we are seeing. Just make something new, or a side story that keeps the franchise as a subheading and be honest.
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Old 12-12-2021, 10:22 AM   #826
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I mean there ARE some evergreen franchises. We're up to what...the 15+ Batman cartoon, 6th movie reboot...?

Scooby Doo seems to get a new series almost immediately after the previous cartoon concludes. It's been running almost consistently with few breaks since 1969. It's remained mainstream for kids over 6 decades.
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Old 12-12-2021, 02:04 PM   #827
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I mean there ARE some evergreen franchises. We're up to what...the 15+ Batman cartoon, 6th movie reboot...?

Scooby Doo seems to get a new series almost immediately after the previous cartoon concludes. It's been running almost consistently with few breaks since 1969. It's remained mainstream for kids over 6 decades.
To be fair, Scooby doesn't change the formula, just update it here and there. The characters get new character quirks here and there or they're exactly the same but living in a world with internet and smartphones. But the core idea of the kids and their talking dog solving mysteries stays relatively untouched. Even with that weirdly drawn one where Daphne was obsessed with hand puppets.

To be fair, I'm surprised they haven't done a woke version yet. Where Daphne takes the lead and Fred is either a bumbling buffoon or everything he does is seen as 'problematic' and 'toxic'. They haven't changed Shaggy and Scooby to say, Velma and Scooby, cause hey, why should a straight white male be the main character aside from the talking dog. Hell, surprised they haven't made race-swapped versions (cartoon that is, not live action) because lord knows we can't have a cartoon about 4 white kids and a talking dog that isn't voiced by a minority in current year.
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Old 12-12-2021, 03:05 PM   #828
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Scooby-doo is like Ultraman. Where in the franchise knows it’s formula and rarely ever goes beyond outside of a variation. It’s one of those that makes those kinds of franchises really hard to pinpoint a good recommendation (though everyone has seen a Scooby-doo in their life, so it’s not hard to get into.)

The only ever real change Scooby had ever faced was the red shirt era as well as that recent Velma and Daphne only movie. Everything else had only been variations of the formula (ex: The monsters are real, story darker, etc)

Another good example is the classic “Lupin III” which I would even label as the Scooby Doo of Japan.
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Old 12-12-2021, 08:01 PM   #829
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Originally Posted by ZariusTwo View Post
It's really just Revelation that's getting the flack, there's more positivity towards the CG He-Man show and that's barely He-Man recognizably. but is a lot more fun and aimed at the right audience
Nobody knows the CGI reboot exists and the toys are shelf-clogging. Not a high bar for "success", that one.

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I mean there ARE some evergreen franchises. We're up to what...the 15+ Batman cartoon, 6th movie reboot...?
Anyone who thinks Batman will still be prominent in 100 years has no sense of history. Once the print medium dies for good and super-hero movie fatigue sets in so hard that even Batman movies can't consistently pull in billion-dollar grosses, Batman goes right on the shelf next to The Shadow and stays there.

Again, it's the natural order of things. "Everything Dies". Meanwhile, stuff like Scooby-Doo doesn't endure because people care about it - they absolutely do not care - it's because entertainment studios are so creatively bankrupt and stuff like that has got some residual cultural awareness leftover from decades ago when people DID care. Nobody in 2021 actually gives a single sh*t about stuff like Scooby-Doo, Alvin & the Chipmunks, or Smurfs... it's just stuff that parents of a certain age plop their kids down in front of because they remember it from when THEY were kids, therefore it's less work the studios have to do in establishing a "new" IP.

So yeah, companies still produce cheap filler content featuring characters people liked 50 years ago, like Smurfs or Flintstones. Does that mean people at large actually give a sh*t, or that those things are still "popular"? No, not even a little bit. It simply means that creating and marketing a cartoon based on a familiar brand name is a bit cheaper than making something brand new, since osmosis handles most of the heavy lifting where advertising is concerned.

I can't be the only one who sees a hard line between "Things still existing in some greatly-diminished form" and "People at large actually still giving a sh*t."

Anyways, yeah, let's see how popular Batman remains after three movies in a row fail to crack one billion dollars, which is a statistical promise. Might not be for a long time, but eventually, "Just throw Batman in there" won't be WB's magic bullet anymore, at which point they'll abandon the character even harder than they've completely abandoned Superman. It'll just take them a bit longer to come to terms with it. But again, The Shadow was arguably more popular than Batman, during their respective "peak years", and now nobody cares about that character at all. You know what's the only enduring reminder that The Shadow was ever even a thing? Batman. Because one begat the other, but otherwise it's like The Shadow never even existed.

That's going to happen to Batman, He-Man, TMNT... everything. Some will hang on a bit longer than others, but it's inevitable. ALL things end up on the shelf as a "Remember That Thing?" It's pointless and naive to think, hope, or expect otherwise. And that's why "We need to keep this brand going for future generations to enjoy!" is f*cking STUPID. That never has been, nor will be how things work.
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Old 12-12-2021, 08:29 PM   #830
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To be fair, I'm surprised they haven't done a woke version yet. Where Daphne takes the lead and Fred is either a bumbling buffoon or everything he does is seen as 'problematic' and 'toxic'. They haven't changed Shaggy and Scooby to say, Velma and Scooby, cause hey, why should a straight white male be the main character aside from the talking dog. Hell, surprised they haven't made race-swapped versions (cartoon that is, not live action) because lord knows we can't have a cartoon about 4 white kids and a talking dog that isn't voiced by a minority in current year.
I think its the latest animated series for them, but Velma is now a lesbian apparently.
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Old 12-13-2021, 01:23 AM   #831
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I think its the latest animated series for them, but Velma is now a lesbian apparently.
Frankly, I wish Fred would come out as well.
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Old 01-15-2022, 01:40 PM   #832
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Some more news on the CG show from a source on He-Man.org who has been viewing screeners

1. Not all of season two is available to him, but all of the third season is. He watched the first episode of S3 but it gave away a lot of S2, which he hasn't seen in full yet, so he's resisting the urge to watch S3.

2. Stratos, Man-E-Faces, and 'The Tri-Klops' appear. Stratos is described as having a jive/cool cat personality everyone gets on the wrong foot of on initial meeting.

3. Season Two is ten episodes, season three is only six
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Old 01-15-2022, 03:09 PM   #833
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Is the Kevin Smith He-Man not getting a second season? It would be a bit of a shame if its over already.
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Old 01-15-2022, 07:36 PM   #834
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Frankly, I wish Fred would come out as well.
You mean that he and Daphne aren't a thing anymore?
Sorry, it's been a long minute since I last watched the show.
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Old 01-15-2022, 08:17 PM   #835
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I believe that Fred and Daphne are officially a thing. Shaggy and Velma are exes, and she started dating a girl called "Hot Dog Water"
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Old 01-16-2022, 12:49 AM   #836
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I believe that Fred and Daphne are officially a thing. Shaggy and Velma are exes, and she started dating a girl called "Hot Dog Water"
Mystery Inc is it's own universe, in the direct-to-DVD movies, Daphne crushes hard on Fred but they aren't exactly an item as Fred is oblivious. Other universes like Be Cool Scooby Doo have indicated that Daphne enjoys the idea of being Shaggy's girlfriend. Be Cool is kind of notable for it's downer ending.

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Old 01-16-2022, 07:07 PM   #837
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Originally Posted by Leo656 View Post
Nobody in 2021 actually gives a single sh*t about stuff like Scooby-Doo, Alvin & the Chipmunks, or Smurfs... it's just stuff that parents of a certain age plop their kids down in front of because they remember it from when THEY were kids, therefore it's less work the studios have to do in establishing a "new" IP.
Scooby-Doo is one of those brands that is a true evergreen brand, it makes tons of money for WB and has never really stopped selling merchandise. Hell I grew up in the 90s without a new scooby-doo show since none came out in that era and yet I still loved SD through re-runs. I avoided Alvin/Smurfs re-runs like the plague they looked like ancient cartoons that my mother watched.
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Scooby Doo seems to get a new series almost immediately after the previous cartoon concludes. It's been running almost consistently with few breaks since 1969. It's remained mainstream for kids over 6 decades.
What's odd is that new scooby doo shows always fail, they rarely last more than 2 seasons, some only one season. And yet we get a new show every other year after the previous one is cancelled. I'm guessing they just make too much money on the brand that they keep making stuff to keep him relevant. Sort of how Coca-Cola buys billboards and a bunch of other marketing stuff that likely doesn't bring in a lot of money but it keeps people remembering the name.
The 90s was the only decade that didn't really have a scooby doo cartoon to call its own.

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Scooby-doo is like Ultraman. Where in the franchise knows it’s formula and rarely ever goes beyond outside of a variation. It’s one of those that makes those kinds of franchises really hard to pinpoint a good recommendation (though everyone has seen a Scooby-doo in their life, so it’s not hard to get into.)

The only ever real change Scooby had ever faced was the red shirt era as well as that recent Velma and Daphne only movie. Everything else had only been variations of the formula (ex: The monsters are real, story darker, etc)

Another good example is the classic “Lupin III” which I would even label as the Scooby Doo of Japan.
Don't forget Shaggy and Scooby get a Clue. They always try to spice things up by doing something "different" even if the core idea is the same.

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I think its the latest animated series for them, but Velma is now a lesbian apparently.
This has been a joke since forever and nothing new, just like Shaggy being high and having the munchies. This is why the first scooby doo live action movie from the 2000 had jokes related to drug use and velma being a lesbian.

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Mystery Inc is it's own universe, in the direct-to-DVD movies, Daphne crushes hard on Fred but they aren't exactly an item as Fred is oblivious. Other universes like Be Cool Scooby Doo have indicated that Daphne enjoys the idea of being Shaggy's girlfriend. Be Cool is kind of notable for it's downer ending.
Scooby-Doo is all one universe!
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Old 01-16-2022, 07:41 PM   #838
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Wasn't a Pup named Scooby Doo made in the 90's?
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Old 01-16-2022, 11:58 PM   #839
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Frankly, I wish Fred would come out as well.
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Old 01-26-2022, 12:28 PM   #840
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Season two of the superior CGI cartoon drops March 3rd

https://twitter.com/MastersOfficial/...83522373939200
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