Obama wins 2nd term

[Barkworm]

Originally Posted by Jester

Why are all the "conservatives" on this forum so abrasive.
You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, or so the saying goes.
People only got bristly with Type 97 because he started out, as he always does in political threads, bristly himself.

I think it's great how you put "conservatives" in inverted commas. I don't believe people like Type 97 are conservatives, they are right wing extremists which is a very different thing. No one is going to lump you together with these kooks.

[Master Splinter]

Originally Posted by Jester

You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, or so the saying goes.

THIS!!!

I am all over the place when it comes to views on different situations, but normally I lean more left than anything, but I will give anyone the time of day to explain to me their thoughts and opinions on various matters as long as they are respectful of me and my opinions as well. Some have actually helped me understand things better and have gotten me to change my stance on topics. But there is no way that I will ever agree with you if you are going to be insulting, derogatory, ignorant, or disrespectful.

I voted for Obama because I am better off than what I was four years ago. I have paid off all of my debt (thanks to freezes in credit rates b/c of Obama and of course Dave Ramsey's FPU), I have gotten a raise in pay, and my wife and I can now afford insurance for our daughter at a reasonable price, when before it was 3-4 times more expensive because they said she had a pre-existing condition (heart murmur), which had gone away after she turned one, so she didn't have it anymore but they still considered it one.

-ms

[Xav]

Originally Posted by Barkworm

You are very funny, keep it up!

So why is it ok for Spitfire to say Type 97 is talking out of his ass, Jester to call him a wacka-doodle, and you to call him insane and crazy but as soon he offends you he gets kicked out?

[BubblyShell22]

Originally Posted by The Stryker

Gay rights and women's rights aren't important? What the?

I'm not saying they aren't important, but it seemed like the whole campaign was focused on that stuff solely. And frankly, I think people need to realize that our country was founded on the basis that everyone is created equal, but people don't seem to remember that little tidbit. I agree that women should have the right to choose and gays should be allowed to marry, but those aren't the only issues facing our nation. We have a damn economic crisis and a job market that's been in the sh*t tank for a long time now, and I feel that those issues are the big issues right now.

And like I said in my other posts, politicians need to leave their personal and religious beliefs at the door, but we know that'll never happen, and that's a huge problem for me.

[The Stryker]

They talked about the economy and the job market the most actually. It was actually considered a deciding factor in some states so I don't know where you're getting your information.

If the guy running believes in god or whatever why should they have to hide it? To appease overly sensitive people that get upset when a person says 'bless you' after a sneeze? If that's what they believe in, hey whatever. Just don't try and blur the line between church and state which only came up with the crazies on BS mountain.

[plastroncafe]

I can think of fewer things more important than being able to marry whomever I want, and being able to control when and with whom I have a family.

I agree that these are things that we shouldn't be focusing on as a nation. They're things that should have been settled years ago, yet for some inexplicable reason they still exist as planks on political platforms.

The best thing the GOP can do is take those planks out of their platform.

[Jester]

The reason, at least in the case of abortion, that there is still debate is because it's a matter of (potential) life and death. Some people, myself included, see the unborn not just as a clump of cells, but a potential human life and as such should be protected.

Why does a right to "choose" trump the unborn's right to life? My freedom of speech, the first right afforded me by the constitution, can be snuffed out at a moments notice if in using it I encroaches on someone's right to life.

[The Stryker]

[Katie]

Its fine to belive that...its your choice. I would never have an abortion unless I was going to die from the pregnancy or if I was raped.

Some people don't see it that way. And it's not our place to tell anyone how to believe. Or that one view is right or not. That's their choice and their decision. We aren't supposed to judge.

Church and state is and should be separate. No laws should be on the books just because it is the ferverent belief of any religious organization that something should or should not be.

[Jester]

That's just it, thought Katie, it's not just the "religious right" that has issue with abortion. Sure, a lot of the pro-life movement is made up of religious people, but there are those who also speak from a biological stand point. By 8 weeks the fetus is distinctly human, and at 11 to 14 weeks you can tell the sex of the fetus. Something with it's own distinct set of genitals is not just a clump of cells.

[Katie]

Sure....but whether or not you can see the genetalia (weird focus BTW) the embryo is dependent on the woman. If there's no woman, there's no living embryo.

Again, I couldn't bring myself to have an abortion except in the cases I mentioned, so I'm with you on the life and all that and I'm very socially liberal. However, it's a touchy thing to force someone to incubate or procreate if they don't want to. Until that baby comes out, it is part of the woman. And also passing those kinds of laws opens up some very slippery slopes in terms of situations such as test tube fertilization, miscarriages, and the like.

I have my moral belief, but if it's not yours, I shouldn't be telling you that I'm right and you're wrong.

[Redeemer]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

I voted for Gary Johnson this year. Was hoping to see him get enough of the popular vote so that the Libertarian Party could have access to federal funding in 4 years, and in turn make enough noise in the polls to be able to take part in the debates.

Yeah that is BS that Johnson couldn't be in the debates

[GK Punk]

Originally Posted by Xav

Wow really? You ban a guy because you don't like his political views? Real mature.

He has a LONG history of attacking people in political threads, he's been asked to stop, banned from this section of the forum multiple times, access given back, then keeps continuing to do so. Since it's a recurring problem, yes this was the answer. Had nothing to do with political views. I disagree with a lot (most) of the stuff posted in here, but I don't care because they aren't attacking people. Me and Jester think entirely differently on politics, yet he's still here. And we get along famously.

And also, he's not banned from the forum. He can access every section other than this one.

[BubblyShell22]

Originally Posted by The Stryker

They talked about the economy and the job market the most actually. It was actually considered a deciding factor in some states so I don't know where you're getting your information.

If the guy running believes in god or whatever why should they have to hide it? To appease overly sensitive people that get upset when a person says 'bless you' after a sneeze? If that's what they believe in, hey whatever. Just don't try and blur the line between church and state which only came up with the crazies on BS mountain.

They can believe whatever they want, but they need to remember that not everyone believes the same way and that they shouldn't act like what they believe is the way that everyone should believe. That's what I'm getting at. And people say, "Bless you" to me all the time when I sneeze, and I thank them for it because it's the polite thing to do. I don't have a problem with that.

Politicians should just keep their beliefs to themselves and leave everyone else alone when it comes to that stuff. Our world would be a lot better if people just left that stuff at the door.

[The Stryker]

Originally Posted by BubblyShell22

They can believe whatever they want, but they need to remember that not everyone believes the same way and that they shouldn't act like what they believe is the way that everyone should believe. That's what I'm getting at. And people say, "Bless you" to me all the time when I sneeze, and I thank them for it because it's the polite thing to do. I don't have a problem with that.

Politicians should just keep their beliefs to themselves and leave everyone else alone when it comes to that stuff. Our world would be a lot better if people just left that stuff at the door.

Again. That's exactly what they did outside of a few weird Romney blurbs. What the hell are you even talking about?

Nobody is ever saying "Hey I'm a christian and everyone else should be too." the whole 'christian nation' garbage only comes from the whackos. It's just crazy paranoia that you're getting at.

But still, if a dude believes in god he shouldn't have to act like he doesn't.

[BubblyShell22]

*sighs* You so aren't listening to what I'm saying. I'm not saying that he should act like he doesn't, you idiot. I'm just saying that politicians should keep that sh*t to themselves when campaigning. Don't put your personal beliefs in your campaign and act like everyone else is going to follow you or act like that's how you're going to run the country. Both parties do it all the time, and I'm sick of it. For example, if someone is pro-life, that's fine, but they shouldn't act like that's how everyone should believe and how they would force people to not have the right to choose.

But whatever. I wouldn't expect someone like you to get what I'm saying. I think the world would be a better place if politicians just stopped hawking their beliefs and using it in their campaigns. It's ridiculous and just makes me hate the more than ever. If you don't agree with me, fine. You'll never understand how I feel about this, and that's okay. You can believe whatever the f*ck you want, and I'll believe whatever the f*ck I want. Frankly, I'd rather vote for a president who shares my belief system, but that'll probably never happen, so screw it. I'm not going to waste my time voting for someone who doesn't share what I believe in.

[Jester]

But how are you gonna know they share your belief system if they shut up about their personal belief system?

It seems you think politicians should just "shut up about what they believe" if it run contrary to what you personally believe.

[The Stryker]

Originally Posted by BubblyShell22

*sighs* You so aren't listening to what I'm saying. I'm not saying that he should act like he doesn't, you idiot. I'm just saying that politicians should keep that sh*t to themselves when campaigning. Don't put your personal beliefs in your campaign and act like everyone else is going to follow you or act like that's how you're going to run the country. Both parties do it all the time, and I'm sick of it. For example, if someone is pro-life, that's fine, but they shouldn't act like that's how everyone should believe and how they would force people to not have the right to choose.

But whatever. I wouldn't expect someone like you to get what I'm saying. I think the world would be a better place if politicians just stopped hawking their beliefs and using it in their campaigns. It's ridiculous and just makes me hate the more than ever. If you don't agree with me, fine. You'll never understand how I feel about this, and that's okay. You can believe whatever the f*ck you want, and I'll believe whatever the f*ck I want. Frankly, I'd rather vote for a president who shares my belief system, but that'll probably never happen, so screw it. I'm not going to waste my time voting for someone who doesn't share what I believe in.

So now you're going to get all testy?

So they don't have to act like they don't believe in what they believe in but they should just never acknowledge that they believe in anything...thus acting like they don't. Kinda weiiiird. I totally understand what you're saying but you're completely misinformed it seems. None of the candidates were forcing their religions on anyone or even implying that you have to be this or that to support them.

Statements like that smack of Paranoid 'everyone's out to change me' garbage.

If anything you're the one trying to get people to change their belief system just because it bothers you.

Care to tell me what religion Obama belongs to and what denomination? Since that's ALL he talked about according to you? No wiki or google.

EDIT: Side-Note but your reason for not voting seems to change by the post! Consistencyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy man!

[mysterycolor]

Obama is a light-weight "christian"... that is typically all he calls himself whenever asked about his faith, though i believe in the early part of his first term he was described as baptist... essentially he just believes that Jesus Christ is the savior, which is the foundation of Christianity... and not denomination specific.

Unfortunately any truly religious politician is pushing his views onto you, because if he is true in his beliefs it will influence what actions he sides with once in office. so even though they might not say you have to be XYZ in order to vote, the entire system implies that you must be tolerant of the belief system, and what it stands for, that those in power hold.

Originally Posted by The Stryker

Gay rights and women's rights aren't important? What the?

yeah... i am with you Stryker, that was a strange statement...and a large part of the thinking behind why Romney lost the campaign. He played his entire campaign out as if he was trying to win over his friends. So in the end it was the minorities that made the decision for the majority... he stuck his foot in his mouth when it came to anything involving women, completely ignored the latino & african american voters and did all but personally ask middle class america to not vote for him.

[BubblyShell22]

This is going nowhere, so I'm just going to say f*ck it. I meant to say that they can believe what they want, but they shouldn't use religion in their campaigns for how they want to change the country. Romney did that in his campaign, and it bit him in the a**. And while Obama is pro choice, he wants to force other religious institutions to perform abortions even if that's not what they believe in. That's what I mean by forcing beliefs onto others. It's ridiculous and is done all the time.

And my reasons for voting haven't changed. That was just another reason I forgot to mention before.

Whatever. F*ck religion and f*ck politics. I hate them both and want nothing to do with them. You can have freedom of religion. I have no problem with that, but everyone else seems to as it's always, "My belief system is the one that needs to be followed in this country and nobody else can believe anything else other than that." F*ck it all.