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Old 06-24-2021, 02:47 PM   #81
Mayhem
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But his emails..! *whine whine whine* give it a focking break... the other 191 countries in the world don’t really give a crap about the sodding emails...
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Old 06-24-2021, 06:06 PM   #82
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All of this. But you'd never convince a conservative of any of it, because they will believe every "leftist agenda conspiracy" over actual science every time. Nevermind the fact that MOST "leftists" (aka progressives) would rather research and learn for themselves than just blindly accept what they are told by the ptb. It's kind of their whole doctrine of beliefs. Ie, to get rid of what doesn't work, and find ways to make things better, which requires getting out of your comfort zone and LEARNING.
See, this statement falls apart under scrutiny for a few reasons:
- Since the beginning of the pandemic, the "science" at play has very much been "We're making it up as we go along." First masks were pointless, then mandatory, then "Better wear two!". First the virus had to be from someone eating a bat, and definitely not from that big lab right across the street from the first outbreak... now they're slowly admitting that it was probably the lab. And it's all coming from the same "experts", all this conflicting information.

Fauci would put it as, "We don't know what we don't know," because that makes for a better soundbite. But it still means "We're making it up as we go along."

- From the beginning, anyone who said "That doesn't sound right to me..." was branded some conspiracy nut, whether it was about the virus's origins, the effectiveness of masks, Hydroxychloroquine as a treatment... anyone questioning what they were being told by CNN and MSNBC was called a dangerous nutcase, and most of those people happened to be conservative. It was the people on the Left who decided they'd just believe whatever they saw on TV, "Because Experts!", while calling anyone who didn't do that a nasty name.

- The "independent research" you speak of... you mean like people finding out that hospitals were lying about the true number of Covid-related deaths in exchange for funding? That literally anyone who died in a hospital during a specific time frame was counted as another "Covid-related death"? Or that countries where there were no lockdowns (or mass panic) had fewer overall cases? Or that the same thing the media dismissed as a dangerous and ineffective treatment - hydroxychloroquine - was in many cases the exact same thing hospitals were using to treat the disease?

That's all stuff that conservatives found out about all on their own... via "independent research" and "LEARNING"... while the left-leaning mainstream media continued to lie their asses off about all of it.

So yeah, your statement is actually the Exact Opposite of what's been going on all year long. LIBERALS decided to take every word out of Fauci and Rachel Maddow's mouth as gospel truth, and never questioned any of it. Whereas CONSERVATIVES did their own "independent research" and "LEARNING", found out that the "official story" was mostly either lies, made-up bullsh*t, or a combination of both, and in turn were derided and labelled conspiracy nuts. Despite much of what they discovered now being verified and corroborated.

Both sides of the political spectrum are guilty of extreme confirmation bias. But in this specific case, yeah, you're completely wrong about who was blindly swallowing everything they were fed. That was all the Libs, because "It MIGHT be true, better safe than sorry!" All that "go read some stuff and figure it out"... that was the Conservatives, and they were insulted and branded for doing so, simply because the truths they uncovered didn't match the "official" story everyone was supposed to swallow.
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Old 06-24-2021, 06:18 PM   #83
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I like what Tom Barnett says..because he's right! Cell toxicity is the reason why you get sick and germ "theory" causing disease is a LIE. Viruses are nothing but Solvents/Soaps that cleanse out toxicity in the body and are not alive outside a cell, and therefore not contagious

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mYqhKBiGvw
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Old 06-24-2021, 06:20 PM   #84
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You have to wonder if this is all one big leftist conspiracy to rob people of their freedoms why countries with right wing governments - in some cases pretty far right- all did various lockdowns and quarantines of their own?
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Old 06-25-2021, 02:34 AM   #85
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- Since the beginning of the pandemic, the "science" at play has very much been "We're making it up as we go along." First masks were pointless, then mandatory, then "Better wear two!". First the virus had to be from someone eating a bat, and definitely not from that big lab right across the street from the first outbreak... now they're slowly admitting that it was probably the lab. And it's all coming from the same "experts", all this conflicting information.
But that's how science works, you investigate, experiment, draw conclusions and write theories, but if the evidence changes down the line, you alter what is the accepted outcome. The worst people are those who stubbornly hold onto what they believe even in the face of differing evidence, they are the most dangerous. Sadly they are mostly religious folks.

QI is a British TV show that's been running for over 15 years now and they present facts and questions, and here's something from a few years back about some of what they had presented in the very early series to perfectly demonstrate my above statement...


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Old 06-25-2021, 02:40 AM   #86
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But that's how science works, you investigate, experiment, draw conclusions and write theories, but if the evidence changes down the line, you alter what is the accepted outcome.
I agree with you on principle, of course. But when they say "the science changes!" when referencing why absolutely no masks one minute, then maybe masks the next, then maybe two masks is "common sense"... what exactly changed, from 5 minutes ago? Maybe political winds changed or decisions about what information the public should or shouldn't be allowed to disseminate (for example, it was admitted that the initial "no masks!" was largely to avoid a rush on masks for fear that medical professionals would see a shortage) by people who shouldn't be making that call on behalf of families and individuals, but certainly not the science. And that's just one case.

The problem is that Dr. Fauci, who actually hasn't seen a patient in 40 years (and if you want to talk about his handling of AIDS, it's public knowledge that at one point -- and his peers decried him -- he openly suggested that maybe you could contract HIV just by being in close proximity with infected people in a room, despite studies in his possession he refused to read fully), has become a bureaucrat and politicized. This was never clearer when, while he had very loud and verbose opinions about everything else including shutting down schools and churches, he inexplicably had 0 opinions when asked repeatedly about "Should the BLM protesters not protest because that will spread the disease? These are hundreds/thousands of people screaming next to one another in the streets. Where do you come down on that?"

There's really no excuse for that, from where I stand.

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Old 06-25-2021, 03:52 AM   #87
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Yep.

More to my earlier point, what Mayhem said doesn't refute what I've said so much as reinforces it.

You can't in one breath scream at a person to "TRUST THE SCIENCE!" (with the smug and unspoken but ever-present addendum of "You Idiot!") and then in another breath admit that "the science keeps changing."

Obviously that's what science does. BUT, it's also why some people are skeptical of whatever "official" word comes down from upon high. "Oh, right now they say This. By next week, it'll change." When that's been the cycle, and remains the cycle, independent-thinking types aren't simply going to roll over and unquestioningly "TRUST THE SCIENCE!", whether it's about masks or vaccines or whatever.

A Liberal looks at a Skeptic and makes a judgment, that they're just some ill-informed loon. And perhaps they are, in some cases. But in a LOT of cases, those skeptical types just see how much conflicting information there is from the so-called "Experts" and think, "Y'know... I'm not so sure Those People really know what they're talking about, either." Especially when it's less about "We don't know what we don't know," and more about those hospitals falsifying records and other such lies. Once outright lies and fraud start trickling down from the "experts", anyone at that point should be completely forgiven for choosing to make up their own mind based on what they See rather than what they are Told.
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Old 06-25-2021, 04:06 AM   #88
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The trouble is that many, many scientific minds far surpassing or at least equivalent to Fauci's know how have come out and spoken opposite or simply differently even in part than Fauci and have all been silenced. The media -- which has become unabashedly the propaganda wing of the left over the past few years -- has been more than happy to help in this. All of these voices (and again, I'm talking about actual doctors and scientists, not conspiratorial whackjobs or yahoos on Youtube) simply get silenced. We've largely only been allowed to listen at large to Fauci and Fauci alone... which might have been fine had he remained objective through the whole thing, but he objectively has not remained objective. At almost any point in all of this. It has been 50% "we can't trust the general populace with the truth on this because they might do that, so I'll say this so hopefully they do that instead" (and he did that during HIV/AIDS, too, and many have illustrated) and 50% "I don't want to upset anyone on the left/China and/or I want to help their ideals" (which I assume is because he agrees with them himself? because if not, why not speak against the BLM protests if all things are equal and he isn't picking a 'side'?)... and simply put, that's not good. That's not good at all. Science is supposed to be... you get hundreds of the greatest scientific minds and get them working, disproving or proving each other live and giving us updates all the way. Not one guy.

Maybe Jo Blo living alone in his studio apartment doesn't care that much either way... but those of us with families and kids? We damn sure care about this. At least, we should. We deserve to be armed with all pertinent information at every step of something like this, the actual facts. Not what they deem we can "handle" or in some kind of manipulation because they think we're stupid or will behave badly. My kid got f***ed up from this past year of nonsense (which is a combination of Fauci and the teachers unions, which Fauci initially pushed against but ultimately just kowtowed to) and I'm angry.

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Old 06-25-2021, 04:17 AM   #89
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My kid got f***ed up from this past year of nonsense (which is a combination of Fauci and the teachers unions, which Fauci initially pushed against but ultimately just kowtowed to) and I'm angry.
That's unfortunate. Like how? Just curious, feel free to PM.

Given that kids don't generally have the skills to parse information the way adults do, I can't even imagine what it must be like being like 5 or 10 years old and trying to make sense of all this stuff.
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Old 06-25-2021, 04:39 AM   #90
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I can't even imagine what it must be like being like 5 or 10 years old and trying to make sense of all this stuff.
Not quite that young. At 5 or 10 (both of them, great ages for kids, btw) you can generally throw a blanket of comfort over them. At 13, 14? Not so much. Interaction with the world is critical.

Maybe it'd be different if my kid wasn't an only child. But she is.

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Old 06-25-2021, 05:26 AM   #91
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Had my 1st vaccine (Astrazeneca) back in March, had my 2nd dose in June. I didn't have many side effects, just tiredness and a sore arm.
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Old 06-25-2021, 11:41 AM   #92
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2nd jab in the books.
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Old 06-25-2021, 11:42 AM   #93
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Yep.

More to my earlier point, what Mayhem said doesn't refute what I've said so much as reinforces it.

You can't in one breath scream at a person to "TRUST THE SCIENCE!" (with the smug and unspoken but ever-present addendum of "You Idiot!") and then in another breath admit that "the science keeps changing."

Obviously that's what science does. BUT, it's also why some people are skeptical of whatever "official" word comes down from upon high. "Oh, right now they say This. By next week, it'll change." When that's been the cycle, and remains the cycle, independent-thinking types aren't simply going to roll over and unquestioningly "TRUST THE SCIENCE!", whether it's about masks or vaccines or whatever.

A Liberal looks at a Skeptic and makes a judgment, that they're just some ill-informed loon. And perhaps they are, in some cases. But in a LOT of cases, those skeptical types just see how much conflicting information there is from the so-called "Experts" and think, "Y'know... I'm not so sure Those People really know what they're talking about, either." Especially when it's less about "We don't know what we don't know," and more about those hospitals falsifying records and other such lies. Once outright lies and fraud start trickling down from the "experts", anyone at that point should be completely forgiven for choosing to make up their own mind based on what they See rather than what they are Told.
You & Andrew both write it out better than I could.... so thanks.
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Old 06-25-2021, 06:43 PM   #94
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Maybe Jo Blo living alone in his studio apartment doesn't care that much either way...
That is me, well not a studio, but same thing. Not only did I get to work at home since April 2020 (and for the moment I'm still working from home), but just think of all the money I've been saving!

As far as I was concerned the lockdowns could last forever.
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Old 06-26-2021, 08:58 AM   #95
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Given this is a similar but new type of SARS virus, I’m not surprised the science message is changing every week. In a couple years time, if things are still ongoing in some fashion, I would imagine we will know a lot more to have a stable message. As someone who did science and engineering, it’s par for the course, but for many others I completely agree, it can seemingly come across as confused, constantly altering, or self conflicting.

I will just repeat that Fauci has no standing on anything outside the US, but I can understand why he’s fixated upon because you’re in the US. Here, he means very little at all.
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Old 06-26-2021, 11:06 AM   #96
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So yeah, your statement is actually the Exact Opposite of what's been going on all year long. LIBERALS decided to take every word out of Fauci and Rachel Maddow's mouth as gospel truth, and never questioned any of it. Whereas CONSERVATIVES did their own "independent research" and "LEARNING", found out that the "official story" was mostly either lies, made-up bullsh*t, or a combination of both, and in turn were derided and labelled conspiracy nuts. Despite much of what they discovered now being verified and corroborated.
Pretty much this. Also on top of this is the cognitive bias whereby you will have people simply categorize people according to the thought of least resistance. "I align as 'liberal' and therefore anyone who disagrees with a given point is a "conservative". It becomes easier to recognize how people file information away in their heads.

It's ironic that the left tends to be so black and white on so much subject matter, but when you get to the center and just off right it's much more reasonable, which is really the phenomena that you are describing here.
Basically the majority of the left spectrum is extremism (the "Fauci is gospel people), but you don't see that extremism again until you start to hang far right. I think that right there is very telling. The life-angry in this thread would swear up and down that I'm a conservative for any counter point to their nonsense, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

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But that's how science works, you investigate, experiment, draw conclusions and write theories, but if the evidence changes down the line, you alter what is the accepted outcome
You've got someone in this thread espousing "science" at the retail level and with vitriol. There are a lot of people out there quoting "science" as a "safe space" blanket term in their pop-culture sensibilities of the discipline. But the real root of science, believe it or not, isn't "evidence" as much as it is "falsification", and appropriately so. For example, evidence is fine, but it's falsified all the time. "We found a gun at the house so the owner is guilty of the shooting". Later on falsified with "someone else's prints were on the gun". Now the evidence of the "gun" on it's own merits is gone. But you are dealing with people (especially here) who go with the "gun found!" narrative and stick by it at all costs over "personal psychology xyz".

I only point out the "phony" and the "stupidity" of other posters here when they add their own disgust and vitriol against others like was done earlier in this thread. Nothing drives me more crazy than an idiot or an @$$hole making a firm stance against someone in anger but it's based on their own stupidity which they believe whole heartedly they are accurate in. Happens a lot from a select three or four self-identified leftists on these forums. I'd drop names, but after time here I've determined they aren't worth it. They can hide in bed at home with their anger at their "back pain" or "gout problems" or whatever made the world unfair to them, that the rest of us just deal with in life and move on.

As for the vaccine, on a long enough timeline it will proliferate to more takers. But again, my biggest curiosity is "you got this one, but are you going to get it every year as it mutates?" What then? That's something that's on my mind regularly regarding all of this. What about the delta variant? Going to get pumped full of chemicals for that too? What about next year?

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Old 06-26-2021, 07:05 PM   #97
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Ivermectin

apparently there’s been another covid treatment suppressed by the media. reporter Ivory Hecker quit her fox news job to expose the media censorship of the drug “Ivermectin” that has been successful in treating covid patients, but the mainstream media doesn’t want you to know about.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/rvccR4Tg6fRS/

this video has already been banned on youtube.

mainstream media doesn’t recommend healthy eating, excercise, fresh air, vitamins. nope instead they want you muzzled, scared, obedient, and to inject unknown chemicals into your body. that’s their job as the mainstream media. i have officially lost faith in all “official sources from the experts”.
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Old 06-26-2021, 07:52 PM   #98
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apparently there’s been another covid treatment suppressed by the media. reporter Ivory Hecker quit her fox news job to expose the media censorship of the drug “Ivermectin” that has been successful in treating covid patients, but the mainstream media doesn’t want you to know about.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/rvccR4Tg6fRS/

this video has already been banned on youtube.

mainstream media doesn’t recommend healthy eating, excercise, fresh air, vitamins. nope instead they want you muzzled, scared, obedient, and to inject unknown chemicals into your body. that’s their job as the mainstream media. i have officially lost faith in all “official sources from the experts”.
Thats been known for a while. I believe Trump talked about it same as the other one thats now "okay" to use by MSM.
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Old 06-26-2021, 08:49 PM   #99
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Yesterday was my last Pfizer vaccine jab. My left shoulder and arm were hurting throughout the day. Advil had to numb that down.
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Old 06-27-2021, 12:57 PM   #100
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apparently there’s been another covid treatment suppressed by the media. reporter Ivory Hecker quit her fox news job to expose the media censorship of the drug “Ivermectin” that has been successful in treating covid patients, but the mainstream media doesn’t want you to know about.
Well the FDA don’t recommend it, so is that media censorship too?

https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consum...event-covid-19

On the other hand, apparently we are conducting a trial on its use...

https://www.contagionlive.com/view/i...d-19-treatment
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