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Old 09-22-2017, 09:01 PM   #1
Powder
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How The Future Came To Be (FINALE SPOILERS)

I know we could delve into this in the episode discussion thread, but I figured with all the speculation folks like to do, this particular aspect of the series finale warranted its own thread. What lead to the events that created this wasteland? Who/what/when/where/why?!

We see that a mutagen bomb goes off, presumably in New York City, which turns, as far as we can tell, almost the entire planet into a mutant wasteland. There are no humans left, very few structures/resources. Leonardo is shown to be in the center of the blast radius, pushing his brothers to safety, & taking the brunt of its hellish consequence all alone. Behind him, is what created the blast. To me, that totally looks like a Kraang design, whether it's the bomb or a ship deploying it.

1. If there are no humans left, does that mean it's because they became mutants, or that they just plain died out? We see a bunch of humans become mutants in the flashback, however Casey Jones' skull is 100% that of a human. So he was okay, yeah? Does that mean then that some humans, perhaps those who were in basements or bunkers, for example, weren't exposed, then later died of natural causes or were killed by mutants?

2. Is it possible that the strike was indeed Kraang's doing? They never had their plots 100% tied up, did they? Could Prime have still been around in some capacity? It'd make sense that she/it wanted revenge & as such pulled a caper like this. I don't remember how they ended up. Did they blow up the moon, too, to mess with tides & other earthly processes?

3. If we're to believe this was all going down somewhere in the vicinity of NY, the tri-state area or whatever, what's up with the dominant species gangs? Meerkats (formerly), lizards, honey badgers, they don't exactly run in packs around their neck of the woods. Why weren't they just deformed humanoids or a wide variety of different animals? I guess we can just assume the creative team had to make good use of their 3D resources & as such limited the species count, but even so, why pick those 3 over any other?

4. Was hair growth a side effect of minor mutagen exposure for the turtles? Why Raph/Mikey but not Leo? Did he shave, despite his manic state?

Do you personally believe other mutant homies of the turtles are still kicking at that point? Like Slash/Leatherhead at least? I'd like to think so. Kind of a shame we didn't get to know anyone else's fate, if you ask me.
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Old 09-22-2017, 09:04 PM   #2
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2. Is it possible that the strike was indeed Kraang's doing? They never had their plots 100% tied up, did they? Could Prime have still been around in some capacity? It'd make sense that she/it wanted revenge & as such pulled a caper like this. I don't remember how they ended up.
When Worlds Collide implied the remaining Kraang were turned back into Utroms. Prime (along with Sub-Prime) was apparently killed off for good in Annihilation: Earth! when the Triceratons blew up the Technodrome, and those same events transpired in Earth's Last Stand. So I don't think it was the Kraang's doing, since it truly seems they were wiped out. Unless they somehow came back in the future, but I don't know how likely that is with Prime being dead.

Otherwise though, I have no idea who else could have made the bomb, which is my biggest question of the finale. Perhaps it's something they just want to leave for fan speculation, or the crew could answer it themselves in due time.
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Old 09-23-2017, 01:49 PM   #3
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Prime (along with Sub-Prime) was apparently killed off for good in Annihilation: Earth!
Kraang subprime's last appeared was in Trans-dimensional turtles, I thought? Last we saw him fall into the Turtle Prime universe and the portal closed on him. I guess we can assume the Mirage Turtles killed him.
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Old 09-23-2017, 01:56 PM   #4
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Kraang subprime's last appeared was in Trans-dimensional turtles, I thought? Last we saw him fall into the Turtle Prime universe and the portal closed on him. I guess we can assume the Mirage Turtles killed him.
Yes, but the events of Annihiliation: Earth! still happened in Earth's Last Stand. It was unclear if Subprime was still in the Technodrome or not when the Triceratons blew it up in that time in Earth's Last Stand. I know it's confusing, but I guess we can assume maybe he was killed by the Mirage Turtles like you said if he didn't escape that dimension in the altered timeline.
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Old 09-22-2017, 09:07 PM   #5
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Would it be a bad idea to see this as a short comic book series or at least a short animated series to maybe fill in some of the gaps and beyond? A part of me wants to see more dealing with this reality and the other part just wants to let it be.
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Old 09-22-2017, 09:11 PM   #6
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When Worlds Collide implied the remaining Kraang were turned back into Utroms. Prime (along with Sub-Prime) was apparently killed off for good in Annihilation: Earth! when the Triceratons blew up the Technodrome, and those same events transpired in Earth's Last Stand. So I don't think it was the Kraang's doing, since it truly seems they were wiped out. Unless they somehow came back in the future, but I don't know how likely that is with Prime being dead.

Otherwise though, I have no idea who else could have made the bomb, which is my biggest question of the finale. Perhaps it's something they just want to leave for fan speculation, or the crew could answer it themselves in due time.
Huh, ok, thanks for the refresher. Still though, one could theorize that they weren't actually destroyed & hadda wait a few years to execute their revenge, no? I mean, being it's a "kids" show, they couldn't show their "death", so there's a bit of breathing room for headcanon, even if it's a stretch at times. Like you said, there's no logical explanation for how else it could've came to be.

A part of me ponders the potential of that second set of turtles going off into space with Fugioid, maybe something went south there which lead to this? I'm certain Ciro & the gang wanted fan speculation to forever be its lasting impression (kinda like Twin Peaks). They've definitely gotten their wish.

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Would it be a bad idea to see this as a short comic book series or at least a short animated series to maybe fill in some of the gaps and beyond?
Not at all, I've been sitting here wondering if you me & Andrew could pull it off...
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Old 09-22-2017, 09:17 PM   #7
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Not at all, I've been sitting here wondering if you me & Andrew could pull it off...
😂 Funny you should mention that. I can already see the first finished issue in my head. Nice cardstock cover. Art that resembles the show to a degree maybe a bit more gritty, some rough drybrush inking here and there, very earthy colors with some grunge textures for effect. It would be very cool actually. I may actually attempt something myself.
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Old 09-22-2017, 09:12 PM   #8
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Seems likely that it was The Kraang. That was part of their plan, to mutate the Earth so, I guess they kinda sorta succeeded.
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Old 09-22-2017, 09:21 PM   #9
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1. If there are no humans left, does that mean it's because they became mutants, or that they just plain died out? We see a bunch of humans become mutants in the flashback, however Casey Jones' skull is 100% that of a human. So he was okay, yeah? Does that mean then that some humans, perhaps those who were in basements or bunkers, for example, weren't exposed, then later died of natural causes or were killed by mutants?
Well maybe the blast made normal humans impotent.

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2. Is it possible that the strike was indeed Kraang's doing? They never had their plots 100% tied up, did they? Could Prime have still been around in some capacity? It'd make sense that she/it wanted revenge & as such pulled a caper like this. I don't remember how they ended up. Did they blow up the moon, too, to mess with tides & other earthly processes?
Well its either going to be the Kraang or Baxter(dude said he wanted revenge)

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3. If we're to believe this was all going down somewhere in the vicinity of NY, the tri-state area or whatever, what's up with the dominant species gangs? Meerkats (formerly), lizards, honey badgers, they don't exactly run in packs around their neck of the woods. Why weren't they just deformed humanoids or a wide variety of different animals? I guess we can just assume the creative team had to make good use of their 3D resources & as such limited the species count, but even so, why pick those 3 over any other?
Cause they like those animals I guess, why did Peter Laird and Kevin Eastman choose Turtles of all things.

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4. Was hair growth a side effect of minor mutagen exposure for the turtles? Why Raph/Mikey but not Leo? Did he shave, despite his manic state? :tlol
Mutagen is weird like that.

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Do you personally believe other mutant homies of the turtles are still kicking at that point? Like Slash/Leatherhead at least? I'd like to think so. Kind of a shame we didn't get to know anyone else's fate, if you ask me.
Maybe but unfourntly the episode didn't even mention them.
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Old 09-22-2017, 09:26 PM   #10
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Yeah the mutagen seriously did a number on Leo. Interesting that he still had a teenager's face.
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Old 09-22-2017, 11:41 PM   #11
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Could do a number of short stories with this. Donnie Taking care of Raph as he slowly pieces his memory back but is barely able to get him to remember him.

Mikey coping with his loneliness and eventual decent into madness. But being hopeful and finding the Oasis and creating the map for it.

And Leo conquering the wasteland as Maxximus Khan.
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Old 09-22-2017, 11:54 PM   #12
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Anyone else left a bit disappointed/underwhelmed by the finale? I'm not really sure what it was that I wanted, but this didn't really even feel like a finale to the show to me. I guess to me it didn't feel like a satisfying ending, because this almost felt like showing us what happened after the true "ending"? I mean, I think a better ending might have even been just showing us the turtles and their allies preparing for the mutagen explosion/trying to stop it, and then having the explosion itself end the series with Leo's sacrifice, idk.

I still stand by my opinion that the series should have ended after they defeated super shredder, that episode at least felt like a true finale to me.
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Old 09-23-2017, 06:29 AM   #13
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It didn't feel underwhelming to me. I know most say the Kraang were wiped out, but it makes sense it either could have been them or Baxter or maybe someone else who found mutagen and wanted to use it. Not sure why they chose those animals, but they did and it seemed weird to me. I'm going to guess all of the humans either died or were mutated so that's why you have no humans left.
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Old 09-23-2017, 01:59 PM   #14
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Subprime is known for surviving impossible odds so I wouldn't be surprised if he and Prime personally orchestrated the Mutagen Bomb.
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Old 09-23-2017, 02:06 PM   #15
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Subprime is known for surviving impossible odds so I wouldn't be surprised if he and Prime personally orchestrated the Mutagen Bomb.
It might have been a fail-safe bomb planted deep under NY in case the Kraang all died, set to go off as a last resort type of thing.

I mean it's easy to forget the Kraang have been on Earth for thousands of years. They may have had these bombs planted everywhere in the world, in every country in every major city.

And on top of that, the moon was destroyed. That would change the ocean currents of the planet and global warming probably drowned out entire countries.
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Old 09-25-2017, 07:37 AM   #16
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1. If there are no humans left, does that mean it's because they became mutants, or that they just plain died out? We see a bunch of humans become mutants in the flashback, however Casey Jones' skull is 100% that of a human. So he was okay, yeah? Does that mean then that some humans, perhaps those who were in basements or bunkers, for example, weren't exposed, then later died of natural causes or were killed by mutants?
I think the mutagen bomb partially terraformed the earth. There's no way it covered the whole world in mutagen and mutated everybody (plus Casey's skull wasn't mutated like you point out). Didn't Raph mention Mutagen Wars at one point as well? Maybe the wars were over whatever mutagen was left as people needed to become mutants to survive?

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2. Is it possible that the strike was indeed Kraang's doing? They never had their plots 100% tied up, did they? Could Prime have still been around in some capacity? It'd make sense that she/it wanted revenge & as such pulled a caper like this. I don't remember how they ended up. Did they blow up the moon, too, to mess with tides & other earthly processes?
It's certainly possible. We see Prime and Subprime on the Technodrome when the Triceratons destroy it at the end of season 3, but in season 4 (after the past has been changed) we only see the Technodrome getting destroyed not Prime or Subprime on it. Of course they could be dead and it could just be some random Kraang extremist (heck, let's call him Ch'rell) out for revenge.

I'm guessing the moon gets damaged in the mutagen wars that followed (again assuming they followed the bomb, they could have come before I guess with the bomb being the end of the wars)

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3. If we're to believe this was all going down somewhere in the vicinity of NY, the tri-state area or whatever, what's up with the dominant species gangs? Meerkats (formerly), lizards, honey badgers, they don't exactly run in packs around their neck of the woods. Why weren't they just deformed humanoids or a wide variety of different animals? I guess we can just assume the creative team had to make good use of their 3D resources & as such limited the species count, but even so, why pick those 3 over any other?
No idea. Maybe they just thought the designs worked best out of the designs they had.

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4. Was hair growth a side effect of minor mutagen exposure for the turtles? Why Raph/Mikey but not Leo? Did he shave, despite his manic state?
I think only Leo was double mutated and the hair growth on Raph and Mikey just came with age.

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Do you personally believe other mutant homies of the turtles are still kicking at that point? Like Slash/Leatherhead at least? I'd like to think so. Kind of a shame we didn't get to know anyone else's fate, if you ask me.
I don't think their close allies (April, Casey, Karai) are but hopefully some of the others are. It would have been great to see some of them in the mutant gangs, even just as cameos.
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Old 09-25-2017, 11:38 AM   #17
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The fact that the Kraang were never shown again after that makes it obvious they're gone. The only time we saw them again is a flashback episode (Lone Rat and Cub), so I imagine they're done. Leonardo even said at the first 80's crossover episode, "I never thought I'd miss the Kraang."

The flashbacks in the last arc also never mentioned the Kraang themselves, they just said "mutagen bomb." They never even said who they were fighting, nor did we see any Kraang droids in that animated flashbacks.
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Old 09-25-2017, 06:26 PM   #18
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To be fair it's like any kids show (and most comic books) - you never see the body so they can bring back whoever they want at any point. The Kraang were defeated and Prime & Subprime presumed dead, and since the series is done it makes sense to leave it like that. But someone set off that bomb and the Kraang (whether a surviving Prime and/or Subprime or just a crazy loyalist) are a viable option.
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Old 09-25-2017, 11:46 PM   #19
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Yeah, I was just thinking about how the Kraang storyline was never resolved and just abandoned. And that lead me down a rabbit hole of thinking that it could only have ended half-@$$edly because of the direction the show had taken somewhere down the line. That there were so many problems with what had started as a main plot point that just spun out into drivel.

And all save all my talk with that for some other topic because it goes into talking about how prior episodes could have been set up differently so that storyline could have been finished.
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Old 09-26-2017, 08:09 AM   #20
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The Kraang story had a proper conclusion. It's almost like people don't watch or remember the episodes.
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