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Old 07-20-2020, 02:11 PM   #281
Whatswiththeheadbands?
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I agree with you except on one point, the fighting of the "small time crime." They aren't supposed to be crimefighters or vigilantes, really.
I get that, and nor should be they be, but don't they usually get roped into dealing with gangs and the foot? Even if they don't fight the crime directly, the turtles taking out gangs or the foot usually indirectly helps in some aspect.

Definitely agreed on the superhero and vigilante point though.
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Old 07-20-2020, 02:22 PM   #282
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I agree with you except on one point, the fighting of the "small time crime." They aren't supposed to be crimefighters or vigilantes, really.
Yes. Please never send the turtles "on patrol".
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Old 07-20-2020, 02:26 PM   #283
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But "Turtles On Patrol" makes me think of "Citizens On Patrol", which was one of the better "Police Academy" movies.

That can't be all bad.
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Old 07-20-2020, 02:28 PM   #284
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But "Turtles On Patrol" makes me think of "Citizens On Patrol", which was one of the better "Police Academy" movies.

That can't be all bad.
Now THAT is a crossover I can get behind.
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Old 07-20-2020, 02:33 PM   #285
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When they get to the part where Callahan jumps in the pool and you can see her nipples through her white T-shirt... which Turtle jumps in to "save" her first?

That is such a good movie.
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Old 07-20-2020, 09:18 PM   #286
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So, we are getting another Turtles film in the theaters. I couldn't get into the Michael Bay produced ones much at all, so I've never seen those. My superficial reason were the designs of the turtles since I really didn't like the idea of Teenage Mutant Ninja Skyscraper Shreks running around the city, but was kind of willing to give it a chance...but the story and the fact that the Foot was walking around with guns just didn't sit well with me. One thing I expect in a Turtles film is fighting...but mostly hand-to-hand combat and martial arts. There were other things that kept me from watching it too, but my main reason was the whole reimagining of the Foot, lack of marital arts, and weak plot, imo.

As for this upcoming CGI film, I might give it a chance. I still haven't looked into what it's supposed to be about or even if it's taking place in the same universe as the current show...I just know that we're getting a movie.

Personally, I wish we would get a legitimate modern-day live-action film in the same vein as the first film from 30 years ago. I still feel that the 1990 film holds up now for practical effects and I have a lot more appreciation for the actors in those suits, given the hard work that went into maneuvering them, doing those moves than something just computer generated and over the top that's not even fully physically there for the live-cast to interact with. I know the 1990 film had some flaws and using CGI to fix those flaws would be cool, but I prefer this style and still would like to see this.

One thing that seems to be going for this upcoming film, though, is that it's going to be fully CGI, like how the 2007 film was, not a hybrid like the Bay produced films. One or the other works for me on that level at least, and hopefully, they (enemies too) will be using actual martial arts this time around.
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Old 07-20-2020, 11:57 PM   #287
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I get that, and nor should be they be, but don't they usually get roped into dealing with gangs and the foot? Even if they don't fight the crime directly, the turtles taking out gangs or the foot usually indirectly helps in some aspect.
Yeah, they get roped in all the time... and obviously if they see someone innocent getting attacked, probably they would step in. But they're not actively going around seeking criminals to bust like Batman or anything.
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Old 07-21-2020, 02:34 AM   #288
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I don't understand the idea that the turtles are "supposed" to be one thing or another. The franchise is incredibly diverse and can support any number of stories in a number of genres, and has for some time. And honestly, even if the originals weren't, if every subsequest version is, than isn't that just what they are now? I mean, and though he is much older, we don't judge what Batman is supposed to be based on his ininitial stories or really based on the first 30 or 40 years of his entire career. Most of the current Batman template can be traced back to the 70s. I don't see why we don't extend that same line of thought to the turtles.
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Old 07-21-2020, 09:08 AM   #289
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I don't understand the idea that the turtles are "supposed" to be one thing or another. The franchise is incredibly diverse and can support any number of stories in a number of genres, and has for some time. And honestly, even if the originals weren't, if every subsequest version is, than isn't that just what they are now? I mean, and though he is much older, we don't judge what Batman is supposed to be based on his ininitial stories or really based on the first 30 or 40 years of his entire career. Most of the current Batman template can be traced back to the 70s. I don't see why we don't extend that same line of thought to the turtles.
I essentially agree, but even hardcore Batman fans wanted a return to the roots of the franchise during the days of “Batman 66”. I don’t necessarily think TMNT should be any which way, personally, I just have a strong opinion of what way is best, arguably even for the health of the franchise.

I?d take your point even a step further though. The other day I was comparing the “Coming out of our Shells” tour to Kevin Eastman’s “Bodycount” when it hit me that this is probably the most diverse franchise ever.
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Old 07-21-2020, 09:18 AM   #290
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The other day I was comparing the "Coming out of our Shells" tour to Kevin Eastman's "Bodycount" when it hit me that this is probably the most diverse franchise ever.
And equally full of crap up to its ears from polar opposite directions.
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Old 07-21-2020, 01:42 PM   #291
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Yeah, neither are riveting experiences to a fully-matured brain, but it still speaks to the strengths and accomplishments of the franchise. It's fascinating to me.
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Old 08-02-2020, 05:26 PM   #292
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There was an interview with Seth Rogen for a Podcast hosted by Marc Marron. and the animated TMNT Movie was briefly mentioned on it. You can listen to it at the 49 minute mark.
http://www.wtfpod.com/podcast/episode-1143-seth-rogen

Apparently the head of Nickelodeon used to produce Superbad with Seth Rogen. I guess that's why they went with him to produce the animated movie.
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Old 08-02-2020, 05:56 PM   #293
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Always worries me a little when the choice of who to get on a project is just pulled from the names someone is already acquainted with.

I mean that's how those last films ended up with lousy writing because they just went with the guys they already had associated with the company, and got Megan Fox to be April because who wants to bother with casting and auditions.

Not that there aren't talented people (at least appropriately for this) in some circles, but...is that one such circle.
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Old 08-02-2020, 07:08 PM   #294
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It's been often said that Hollywood is rather incestuous insofar as its business relationships. Although it's not unheard of in any other field of entertainment, either.

In the wrestling business, we call those "Buddy Bookings"; you bring someone in for a spot that maybe they haven't legit earned or belong in, but they're good buddies with The Boss so they get booked ahead of other guys in line who maybe deserve it more. I can't say much about it because I get most of my bookings this way! But it's something everybody grumbles under their breath about. Everybody does it, but everybody swears they never would if it were them holding the pencil... but then they all end up doing it anyway.

I mean, I get it. Can't say I'd never do it, I probably would. In pretty much any business, you're gonna call a guy you know for a job before some guy you've *heard* might be good but aren't personally involved with, whether it's acting or plowing your driveway. Maybe the other guy is better... but this guy's your buddy! How ya gonna leave your buddy hangin'? Makes things awkward.

Then there's the fact that with movies and TV shows, there's contracts involved, and thus producers are usually limited to only working with talent who are under contract to their own studio. Like, could Robert Downey, Jr. appear in a DC movie if he really were inclined? Sure, technically, but Disney would make WB jump through 87 hoops first to secure him, and in the end it would be more hassle than it would be worth, when they could hire someone "in-house" who cost 1/10th as much and probably do just as good a job. You do see actors cross-over between studios all the time but it's always a headache for everyone involved. So "Do we already have _____ under contract?" is always a concern as well when scouting talent. You'll often hear stories about "________ auditioned for ________ and didn't get it," and there's not a reason given; sometimes they're not the preferred pick, but other times, they're already another studio's "property" and the people hiring just don't wanna be bothered with the red tape.

So yeah, it's a whole big thing. It's the same whether it's people who work in front of the camera or behind it. And it might be annoying but it also makes a lot of sense. It's why guys like Zack Snyder generally have their own "team" of guys they work with on every project; writers, cinematographers, all the way down the list including certain actors who show up in most of his movies. It's just easier, they already know each others' styles and they're already buddies. Cuts down on tons of pre-production if you go into a project already knowing who's getting what gig.
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Old 08-02-2020, 09:59 PM   #295
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Yeah, kinda painful hearing him say it?s something he was handed as opposed to one of the many things he has pined after, but that?s par for the course. On the other side, he definitely seems rather familiar with the property from childhood and described himself as being ?annoyingly hands on? with the writing process for this movie, so it?s nice to hear that he is invested in the project. With a little research and good taste, he might be able to push this on a positive direction.

And this is no surprise but he distinctly mentioned this as a kids property he is working on after being asked about his R-rated animation projects. Expected, because even if this does have enough edge for older fans, they?ll still probably call it?s a kids property.... but slightly painful nonetheless.
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Old 08-02-2020, 10:16 PM   #296
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It would be great if it ever reached a point where TMNT was universally considered an "All-Ages" property, which is proper.

Instead, it's a "Kids Property", which implies that anyone over age 7 who pays attention to it has some kind of disorder. Even if it's not spoken, it's implied right there in those two little words: "Kids' Property".

Never mind that it wasn't created for kids. Never mind that kids generally wouldn't have even been "allowed" to read the earliest issues of Mirage (or even cared about it, since it was black and white). Never mind that the BEST stuff in the franchise, up to and including the 1990 film, contains content that the Soccer Mommy Brigade would clutch their pearls over their little parasitic spawn laying eyes on.

Nah, forget all that. It's funny talking animals, and every character's a moron. "Kids Property".

I really, really, really, REALLY hate that. Not only is it not technically accurate, it inherently, subliminally implies that you're an idiot if you still look at it after you get your pubes. It's insulting to the audience. MORE adults give a sh*t about TMNT than kids do. By like, several million people. Kids do NOT care about this franchise anymore, they just like it for 5 minutes when their parents who grew up on it force-feed it to 'em, then they move on to whatever else.

It could've reasonably been considered a "kids' property" up to 1995 or so, but not after. Once the primary audience went to high school, that was the end of that. Kids barely watched 2K3, it was all people my age. Same for the rest of the shows since. Kids don't like TMNT anymore.
They haven't for a LONG time. TMNT is for the people who were kids in the 80s/early90s, NOT those who are kids NOW. They don't care! Stop marketing it for them!!!


If 80% of your audience is 25-40years old, HOW can you call it a "Kids' Property"? Do they not do any market research? Is it as simple as "Well look at how loony this is, it HAS to be for kids" and there's nothing else taken into consideration? I mean, if they're working off of the assumption that most TMNT fans are mentally children, I might agree, but even still... kinda mean, no?

Like, there's NO way you can call TMNT a "kids' property" without meaning it as an insult. It's absolutely an insult, and also, technically, a lie.
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Old 08-02-2020, 10:29 PM   #297
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Well said, man. Summed it up.
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Old 08-02-2020, 10:55 PM   #298
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It would be a bit less annoying if there was any evidence whatsoever that TMNT makes a strong connection with kids anymore, but I've seen almost nothing to suggest that. And I know many people who've tried it on their own kids.

I think kids today don't have the capacity to form strong and lasting bonds with the things they like. Attention spans are too short, they're too quick to discard one thing to move on to The New Thing. They don't seem to have the same kind of nostalgia that our generation does/did. They were raised on technology, which likewise pushes a constant need for "Newer and Better". Old isn't "cool", it's just Old. TMNT? That's something Mom and Dad liked. Gross! No kid wants to be caught dead liking something their parents were into. There's nothing less cool than that.

I'm kind of curious to see what sort of things, if any, this current generation of kids will be nostalgic for in 20+ years, or even if those sentiments will even exist. Because quite frankly, Pop Culture Nostalgia is something 80s kids invented; before the 80s, the idea of living in the past, watching old movies and TV shows, playing with old toys, and romanticizing the past, was considered something of... well, mental illness, basically. When things were done, they were Done. Nobody really made a big fuss about bringing them back, or even going out of their way to remember or pay tribute to them. And when 80s kids in the late-90s started putting He-Man stickers on their notebooks or watching Thundercats reruns, for the first few years it was considered a campy sort of trend that would soon pass. But it didn't, and now "Nostalgia Culture" is a huge industry, perhaps the biggest in all of entertainment.

...But will it stay that way? I'm not sure. Given how quick the youth of today is to abandon things - as well as how much of today's content is merely recycled from older things to begin with - will there even BE a "Nostalgia Culture" in three decades or so? And if so, what will it look like? Will kids Then be romanticizing Paw Patrol the way our generation does TMNT? I kinda doubt it. I don't know, obviously, but... I kinda think something's changed. I kinda think maybe "We" were just some weird glitch in the Matrix. We cared way too much for way too long about things we were supposed to grow out of... and people both older and younger than us think we're crazy for being that way. If you've ever been chastised by someone in their 60s for still playing video games, AND by a teenager for playing a game that's more than 4 months old, both in the same DAY, then you know exactly what I'm talking about.

So yeah, I'unno. I don't know how it all fits or what it all means, or what it will mean 30 years from now. I DO know, though, that little kids don't care about Ninja Turtles. And that therefore, it's ridiculous to call it a "Kids' Property" and make that a hard rule. "Well, we want them to care, so we'll force 'em to care." Doesn't work! Kids don't care about the brand... maybe aim for the people who grew up with it already and also have all the money, who've shown that they DO care.

"You're not supposed to care. Frankly, we're embarrassed by you. We'd honestly prefer it if you 30-somethings gave up on this. You're not who we want."

At least that would be honest. Ignorant, shortsighted, mean-spirited... but I'd respect the honesty.
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Old 08-02-2020, 11:31 PM   #299
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My kids don't connect with TMNT. They're not ADD or anything, not moving on to the next thing. They just like other things, even though I've shown them a lot of TMNT (and purchased a lot of TMNT merch).

$hit, man. I guess it was an 80's thing after all.
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Old 08-02-2020, 11:39 PM   #300
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My niece liked the 2003 show for a minute, and she's a little nostalgic for it now. Hates the newer stuff. She was like 3 or 4 when 2K3 came out and saw it when she was like seven or eight. She liked it a lot very briefly but then moved onto something else. I never heard her talk about it again until my wife asked her about it last week.

My wife's cousin tried getting her 4-year old son into it with the Nick show, but again, it only took for like five minutes. Ask him about it now, he's like "Eh."

I could go on. I don't know what it is, but it seems like regardless of the "Why", TMNT doesn't actually connect with kids. It only did the ONE time. ONE time, it made a lasting impression on a bunch of kids who carried it with them forever. Since then it just doesn't stick. The only people who care NOW, are people who Always Cared.

So since it's pretty much proven fact that the alleged audience doesn't actually give a sh*t... why does it get labeled as a "Kids Property" so pervasively and insistently? It makes. No. SENSE.

MLP didn't plan for 75% of its audience being adults when they put out FiM, but once they realized it was mostly adults watching the show, they leaned way, way into it. They didn't discourage it, rather the complete opposite. It was supposed to be a "kids show", then it became an "All-Ages" show. Smart business! One would think other companies would take note.
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