Did Kavanaugh do it?

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by Leo656

You're supposed to give people the benefit of the doubt unless there IS no more doubt of their guilt.

Have any of the people who are furious even once considered the idea that maybe he's innocent? I've had people tell me, "There's NO way he's innocent," but you weren't there, were you? What are you basing that on? Right, emotion. "Feelings". Horrible.

Yeah, and is why there is no easy answer because most of it is a whole lot of gray area because no one really knows except the people in the middle of a case like that.

After all, as I keep seeing people going on about online, innocent until proven guilty, of course, but people seem to miss that it goes both ways. Anymore, people are so fast to judge a woman who comes forward about something and start screaming "liar!", judging her as guilty of lying when they, nor anyone else, has any clue what the truth even is. It's all based on bias and feelings no matter what side someone decides to take. Being dragged into the public eye and judged as a liar with no real proof of that either can probably also ruin lives if you're branded with some form of a scarlet letter even if it wasn't deserved. Yeah, good luck changing jobs, etc if they recognize you but sided against you. No one is going to hire or otherwise work with a "liar," be it true or not. Could happen to either party.

I have no idea what to think in this case. It's all just a mess. The innocence here could go either way and none of us in the general public really has any clue. Both of them will not go unaffected, but he at least got the benefit of coming out on top. Good luck to her.

Originally Posted by Sumac

People with mindset like this are one of the worst things humanity has to offer.

Wait, I thought it was the evil liberal mindset that was the worst.


This country did not deserve for things to go like this and get to this point, but I agree... it made that bed, and dug that hole. Can't go doing that without expecting to deal with the consequences of it.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Exactly. While our country does not deserve (merit-wise) the kind of crap it's being put through, we kind of DID (collectively) do this to ourselves via the old voting box. And now we're reaping the "benefits" of that collective decision. Sad, but true. And the worst part is that we will probably- as a nation- do it all over again in about a month. Because most people just never learn from their mistakes.

[Leo656]

There ARE no "Good Guys" in politics, though, just people who pretend to be. So who to support? Another reason I don't vote is because I don't believe a single word any of these people says to begin with. "Well, we can go by what they say and align ourselves with whoever claims to have values similar to our own!" Bullsh*t, they're lying. Every one of them. Liars. I won't support a liar in such an important position of power. "Well, we can HOPE..." Why? WHY should we "hope" one of them is telling the truth when we know better? The very fact that any of these people openly pursued a position of power means they don't deserve it. Not one of them does what they do to make the country or the world a better place; it's about money, power, status, and perks. Zero exceptions.

I can't help but laugh every time anyone supports a politician, or party, and then - SHOCKINGLY - they get in office and behave exactly the same as the rest. The f*ck did you expect?

R or D, Red or Blue, nothing ever changes. Once in a while, taxes go up. That's all. Those who cling to the misguided hope that one day, some shining knight is gonna show up and fix everything are truly misguided, and I feel sorry for them. They're choosing to be perpetually miserable instead of just enjoying life for what it is, as best they can. "I'd rather gnash my teeth and wail that it would all be BETTER if someone I personally liked was running things!" Okay then. Enjoy the heartburn.

I will say that as someone who skews slightly more Conservative, I strongly respect the folks on that side for never once pretending to be anyone's friend. I resent politicians on the Liberal side for going to great lengths to seem like "Nice Guys", because it's all just manipulation; they don't really hold those values, they just know how to get people to support them by wearing a mask made up of "Compassion and Empathy." And people fall for it! Constantly! It really blows my mind. I can at least respect an asshole who tells you up front that they're an asshole.

As for "the state of the country", I'm not gonna lie... I'm 100% fueled by self-interest, and I'm making more money now than I did 5 years ago, so I really can't worry too much about what's going on with other people, since they don't pay my bills. Most people in my personal circle are doing fine. So, as usual, I think "the country" is doing fine, and people are simply choosing to be more upset because people they like aren't sitting in the chairs they want to see them in. And it really doesn't matter since it's all a scam. So I'd truly like to see those people relax and pay more attention to something else.
---------------------------

Indigo: For sure, it's a sh*tty situation. I'm not even sure she's lying, per se, but it's entirely possible that she didn't remember things clearly. Problem is, we'll never know; she sabotaged her own case 40 years ago by not reporting what she claims happened. Even one bit of credible evidence would have changed the whole game. She came forward with a very serious claim, and expected people to believe her just because She Said So. Well, it doesn't work like that. I sincerely hope the right decision was made here, but we can't know for sure who's telling the truth, and that's frustrating.

Truth is one of the things I value above all else in life, so sh*t like this really bothers me. BUT, so do people who rush to judgment without evidence. As stated, as a person who's had to go to court and fight a bogus charge, I'm sensitive to these things.

Hopefully the guy does a good job and it all blows over. No winners in this, either way. Everyone's angry, everyone's divided, seeds of mistrust were sown and reputations were damaged. No winners.

F*cking mess.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Sumac

Punishing everyone for decisions of the few is stupid and unjust. It's infantile mindset.
Collective responsibility is one of the most idiotic ideas that had ever graced mind of the human being.

It's called democracy, man. When the idiots outnumber you, you're hosed.

Originally Posted by Leo656

There ARE no "Good Guys" in politics, though, just people who pretend to be. So who to support? Another reason I don't vote is because I don't believe a single word any of these people says to begin with. "Well, we can go by what they say and align ourselves with whoever claims to have values similar to our own!" Bullsh*t, they're lying. Every one of them. Liars. I won't support a liar in such an important position of power. "Well, we can HOPE..." Why? WHY should we "hope" one of them is telling the truth when we know better? The very fact that any of these people openly pursued a position of power means they don't deserve it. Not one of them does what they do to make the country or the world a better place; it's about money, power, status, and perks. Zero exceptions.

I can't help but laugh every time anyone supports a politician, or party, and then - SHOCKINGLY - they get in office and behave exactly the same as the rest. The f*ck did you expect?

R or D, Red or Blue, nothing ever changes. Once in a while, taxes go up. That's all. Those who cling to the misguided hope that one day, some shining knight is gonna show up and fix everything are truly misguided, and I feel sorry for them. They're choosing to be perpetually miserable instead of just enjoying life for what it is, as best they can. "I'd rather gnash my teeth and wail that it would all be BETTER if someone I personally liked was running things!" Okay then. Enjoy the heartburn.

All this, right here. People act like corruption and scumminess would be nothing but roses and unicorns if Hillary won.

Nah. Same problems, different suits.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I resent politicians on the Liberal side for going to great lengths to seem like "Nice Guys", because it's all just manipulation; they don't really hold those values, they just know how to get people to support them by wearing a mask made up of "Compassion and Empathy." And people fall for it! Constantly! It really blows my mind.

Funny enough it sounds very similar to the many reasons I don't really trust and resent those on the conservative side.

So Christian and pure and value-filled and oh so patriotic! and blah blah blah -- and the sky is always about the fall and the second it hits the ground they (liberals, immigrants, and "other" people, oh my! -- "the enemy!") will be OUT TO GET YOU -- but never mind, #&$% all that, we just threw all that away! Though we'll never admit it and still claim to have it and anything you heard was "fake news!" It was just to get votes anyhow, just a mask.

And likewise, people fall for it ALL the time and I personally highly resent the manipulation and the untrustworthyness of it and the love of the use of conspiracy theories, fear mongering and trying to play people for fools to control them with it.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I stand somewhere in the middle- don't really trust EITHER side, nor do I support them beyond putting my vote for whomever I think will do the LEAST amount of actual harm to the country, and to the values we all supposedly uphold. Other than that, I honestly can't understand how anyone can think they are not ALL just in it for themselves. But I'd rather put my money (so to speak, since we all know that's where our taxes REALLY go) where my mouth is in regards to who gets it. If they happen to be better than the previous turd in office, so much the better.

That said, there are SOME truly aweful, scuzzy folks in office, and I'd just as soon they all took a 3-hour boat ride straight to Gilligan's Island and STAYED there. Some people you don't even have to know personally to realize they are scum-sucking creeps, you just have to hear them talk for more than five seconds. Those, I actively despise!

[Leo656]

Eh. As much as I despise those who worm their way into power by promising people Free Everything, an end to all wars, and a transparent government, I'm equally suspicious of anyone who hides behind a flag or a cross.

See... ALL this sh*t is why we need Outer Heaven.


Remember... Big Boss is watching you.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I'm just waiting for the day we have the UFP....

[Leo656]

Eh, my crew has better swag.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Yeah, but the Federation has Rysa, so.... (and hot Orion chicks....)

[Andrew NDB]

Wow, democrats are angry. They're "vowing" to impeach Kavanaugh.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dem...chment-recusal

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

Yeah, but the Federation has Rysa, so.... (and hot Orion chicks....)

Go Green indeed.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Wow, democrats are angry. They're "vowing" to impeach Kavanaugh.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dem...chment-recusal

Of course they are. Why on earth is THIS guy the hill the Democrats have to die on? They couldn't pick more worthwhile battles?

[Leo656]

It rhymes with "Shmabortion Kites."

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Wait, I thought it was the evil liberal mindset that was the worst.

Liberalism is good.
But as any other religion or ideology it should be used in moderation. When you start to apply it in excess it leads to anarchy, stupidity and tyranny.

Also, no need to paint me as some kind of "right-wing" monster. I don't support most of the conservative values, however, it doesn't mean that I should automatically lap every drop of that "tasty" liberal juice, many people excreting this days.

I prefer to think first, and than think some more, where are those policies might lead.

Originally Posted by Leo656

There ARE no "Good Guys" in politics, though, just people who pretend to be. So who to support? Another reason I don't vote is because I don't believe a single word any of these people says to begin with. "Well, we can go by what they say and align ourselves with whoever claims to have values similar to our own!" Bullsh*t, they're lying. Every one of them. Liars. I won't support a liar in such an important position of power. "Well, we can HOPE..." Why? WHY should we "hope" one of them is telling the truth when we know better? The very fact that any of these people openly pursued a position of power means they don't deserve it. Not one of them does what they do to make the country or the world a better place; it's about money, power, status, and perks. Zero exceptions.

I can't help but laugh every time anyone supports a politician, or party, and then - SHOCKINGLY - they get in office and behave exactly the same as the rest. The f*ck did you expect?

R or D, Red or Blue, nothing ever changes. Once in a while, taxes go up. That's all. Those who cling to the misguided hope that one day, some shining knight is gonna show up and fix everything are truly misguided, and I feel sorry for them. They're choosing to be perpetually miserable instead of just enjoying life for what it is, as best they can. "I'd rather gnash my teeth and wail that it would all be BETTER if someone I personally liked was running things!" Okay then. Enjoy the heartburn.

I will say that as someone who skews slightly more Conservative, I strongly respect the folks on that side for never once pretending to be anyone's friend. I resent politicians on the Liberal side for going to great lengths to seem like "Nice Guys", because it's all just manipulation; they don't really hold those values, they just know how to get people to support them by wearing a mask made up of "Compassion and Empathy." And people fall for it! Constantly! It really blows my mind. I can at least respect an asshole who tells you up front that they're an asshole.

As for "the state of the country", I'm not gonna lie... I'm 100% fueled by self-interest, and I'm making more money now than I did 5 years ago, so I really can't worry too much about what's going on with other people, since they don't pay my bills. Most people in my personal circle are doing fine. So, as usual, I think "the country" is doing fine, and people are simply choosing to be more upset because people they like aren't sitting in the chairs they want to see them in. And it really doesn't matter since it's all a scam. So I'd truly like to see those people relax and pay more attention to something else.
---------------------------

Indigo: For sure, it's a sh*tty situation. I'm not even sure she's lying, per se, but it's entirely possible that she didn't remember things clearly. Problem is, we'll never know; she sabotaged her own case 40 years ago by not reporting what she claims happened. Even one bit of credible evidence would have changed the whole game. She came forward with a very serious claim, and expected people to believe her just because She Said So. Well, it doesn't work like that. I sincerely hope the right decision was made here, but we can't know for sure who's telling the truth, and that's frustrating.

Truth is one of the things I value above all else in life, so sh*t like this really bothers me. BUT, so do people who rush to judgment without evidence. As stated, as a person who's had to go to court and fight a bogus charge, I'm sensitive to these things.

Hopefully the guy does a good job and it all blows over. No winners in this, either way. Everyone's angry, everyone's divided, seeds of mistrust were sown and reputations were damaged. No winners.

F*cking mess.

Completely agree with this.

Even though Russia has a very different history when it comes to political leaders and parties most of what you've said rings completely true to this place as well.

[Klunk1234]

Brett Kavanaugh didn't rape that woman. She contradicted her testimony making it confusing. She said she was 15 when the assault happened, but in another one she said that it happened at the end of her teens and for the USA and other English speaking countries, the teenage years ends at 19. Why she waited 36 years for this? If you suffer something horrible, you tell the authorities or somebody you trust.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by Sumac

I prefer to think first, and than think some more, where are those policies might lead.

Political orientation is a spectrum - not a dichotomy. I think a lot of people don't realize that this is the case, and when you combine that ignorance with a galvanizing need to be part of something, then you have extremism.

The problem with experience though, is that it create galvanizing points of view as well. For example, I tend to find that the spectrum of liberals is widely populated by people who are nuts across the gamut whereas it's seems that the nuts on the conservative side is mostly aligned far, far right (as it you'd expect).

You'd think there'd be more balance near the middle as you fan out, but as soon as you cross two steps into the left you have critical thinking errors all over the place, and the mania begins almost immediately after that.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by Klunk1234

Why she waited 36 years for this?

Who knows, but even that specific case aside, people seem to forget that the early 80s were different times. Domestic violence itself was still relatively newly considered a serious matter. Before then, it was a "private family matter" that wasn't typically intervened in. But are all police in all places going to start getting involved at the same rate? Probably not. Are all families going to up and decide it's no longer a private issue and should be reported? Probably not. And certainly not those who are guilty of it. Even today of course.

And if kids are raised in such a household, then what is the message there? That it's okay to abuse women (or men, or children, as the case may be) and get away with it? That those women have no power to speak out because this is allowed as a "family issue" and they'd be shamed because it's supposed to be kept private back then?

Granted, in a case like Ford, why then didn't she speak out 10 years ago? Or 20? But maybe after that long most people have put an event aside for long enough that it's just easier to keep it there, shoved to the back of the mind and in the past. (After all, given her age, her formative years were smack dab in the middle of society deciding if abuse was important or not or if victims are supposed to just hush up and deal with it, and people are molded by the times they come from...)

But, in a case like this, I could kind of understand reacting when you're suddenly hearing the guy's name in the news and seeing that a person who abused you could be given a position of power that would allow him to have a hand in decisions that affect the whole country for the rest his life...


Who knows... I have no idea what to make of this case and neither of them are solidly believable. But the history of abuse - be it domestic violence, rape, or what have you - and how society has responded to it and how that and change over time plays a part isn't as simple as people want to make it out to be.

Originally Posted by IMJ

You'd think there'd be more balance near the middle as you fan out, but as soon as you cross two steps into the left you have critical thinking errors all over the place, and the mania begins almost immediately after that.

So... are you "far, far right" then? I mean, it seems like a "critical thinking error" to generalize liberals in such a way.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

So... are you "far, far right" then? I mean, it seems like a "critical thinking error" to generalize liberals in such a way.

No, I would say that I tend to be Libertarian and nowhere near full-on conservative.

Making generalizations is a way of formatting information. It's not inherently "evil" nor is it rigidly a manner of being biased. Sometimes we make generalizations to organize information based on what we see.

It's no critical thinking error to say this has been my experience when in fact my experience has been that the spectrum of liberals is full of irrationality on a wider scale than the spectrum of conservatism is. But as a liberal yourself, I would expect this kind of response from you. Knee-jerk, emotional, word vengeance not rooted in anything else but the most simplistic views of "good" or "bad".



For anyone here who is still developing their political orientation, remember that the direction this occurs in is important. For example, don't knee-jerk side with something on the most simplistic of terms and then seek to defend it. Instead, first figure out what each orientation is formally seeking (basically what are the democratic or republican values), second see what each orientation has actually become, third observe the real behaviors, and lastly then pick your belief system.

The only caveat after this is be open to more understanding of each party. For example, I had a convict at one time tell me that "it's simple, democracts are for the people and republicans are for the people with money". It was the most distilled down, simplistic (and therefore inaccurate) way of perceiving a picture too complex for him to digest.

[IndigoErth]

Righhhhht... If you say so.

Spoiler:

edit: Yeah, I'm probably pretty far off from being the type to make knee-jerk reactions (etc), sorry.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by IMJ

No, I would say that I tend to be Libertarian and nowhere near full-on conservative.

Making generalizations is a way of formatting information. It's not inherently "evil" nor is it rigidly a manner of being biased. Sometimes we make generalizations to organize information based on what we see.

It's no critical thinking error to say this has been my experience when in fact my experience has been that the spectrum of liberals is full of irrationality on a wider scale than the spectrum of conservatism is. But as a liberal yourself, I would expect this kind of response from you. Knee-jerk, emotional, word vengeance not rooted in anything else but the most simplistic views of "good" or "bad".



For anyone here who is still developing their political orientation, remember that the direction this occurs in is important. For example, don't knee-jerk side with something on the most simplistic of terms and then seek to defend it. Instead, first figure out what each orientation is formally seeking (basically what are the democratic or republican values), second see what each orientation has actually become, third observe the real behaviors, and lastly then pick your belief system.

The only caveat after this is be open to more understanding of each party. For example, I had a convict at one time tell me that "it's simple, democracts are for the people and republicans are for the people with money". It was the most distilled down, simplistic (and therefore inaccurate) way of perceiving a picture too complex for him to digest.