Would you consider the multi-colored masks to be a vestigial design element?

[Avenger]

Let's remember, in the 80's, all the turtles in comics had their face drawn the same way. (In black and white, also) If you have a case who 2 turtles speaking (from chest to head) it could be harder to identify them, depending of the context.

Even in the 90's for the MMPR show, they made sure Jason was always wearing red, and Tommy was always wearing green (then white, then red). Apparently the kids weren't smart enough to tell the difference.

Today, even if the red bandanas come back, I think the artists are good enough to find other ways to visually individualize them:

- Different types of mask (classic bandana, Nightwing style mask, luchador mask, etc.)

- Natural facial differences (in Nick TMNT, Donnatello was missing a teeth, Raphael had a scar, etc.)

I'm not saying these are good ideas, I'm just saying there are ways to evolve the turtles' look in a way to please everybody.

Anyway, I always thought they never took great risk with the look of the turtles (beside the colored bandanas… and Rise)

[mrmaczaps]

I'd like to see a 2k3/2k12 mashup and go back to all red wearing turtles. For the folks who can't handle red masked turtles, color code (very faded) the weapons like 2k3 and tweak the look of the guys a little bit like 2k12... then everyone can be content. And when they are doing downtime in the den, no bandanas.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Avenger

Let's remember, in the 80's, all the turtles in comics had their face drawn the same way. (In black and white, also)

So what? If there's human quadruplets in a comic, is it the artist's duty to break through the story and give each one a color-coded ascot?

If you have a case who 2 turtles speaking (from chest to head) it could be harder to identify them, depending of the context.

People have been saying that for 20 years, yet no one can actually produce any Mirage panels where someone who isn't a moron can honestly go, "I can't tell who that is on this panel!"

Today, even if the red bandanas come back, I think the artists are good enough to find other ways to visually individualize them:

- Different types of mask (classic bandana, Nightwing style mask, luchador mask, etc.)

- Natural facial differences (in Nick TMNT, Donnatello was missing a teeth, Raphael had a scar, etc.)

I'm not saying these are good ideas,

That's good, because they're definitely not.

I'm just saying there are ways to evolve the turtles' look in a way to please everybody.

I don't think that's what the word "evolve" means.

[Avenger]

[QUOTE=Andrew NDB;1917745]So what? If there's human quadruplets in a comic, is it the artist's duty to break through the story and give each one a color-coded ascot?

Forget the color theme, I'm talking about visual differences in general. And yes, I consider it a form of duty for the artist the be sure everyone can easily identify each character. When you produce something for the masses, you have to make sure you'll reach anybody.

[Sumac]

No.
At this point colored masks are synonymous with characters and a franchise, and I prefer it that way, as it easy to tell Turtles apart without resorting to extreme measure, like Rise did.

I am not against giving turtles different skin colors (a-la old playmates toys) or slightly different faces, but I prefer colored masks anyway.

[mrmaczaps]

Originally Posted by Sumac

No.
At this point colored masks are synonymous with characters and a franchise, and I prefer it that way, as it easy to tell Turtles apart without resorting to extreme measure, like Rise did.

I am not against giving turtles different skin colors (a-la old playmates toys) or slightly different faces, but I prefer colored masks anyway.

I'd rather see the franchise dead & gone, buried forever than keep going with color coded masks. Its infantile. They're a "ninja team", to quote the godawful 80s toon. They're supposed to blend in as ninja and not allow their enemies to know how many of them there actually are... color coding is a dead give away.

[Leo656]

Barely even "ninjas".

Nobody in 1980-whatever in America even knew what a "ninja" was. They thought it was Japanese for "good at kicking". Let's not get overly hung up on buzzwords like they actually matter.

[IndigoErth]

If the anti-Turtle-color-maskers don't care what color, maybe it would be easier just to go colorblind so then they're just wearing diff tones of gray...while everyone else can keep the colors.

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by mrmaczaps

I'd rather see the franchise dead & gone, buried forever than keep going with color coded masks. Its infantile. They're a "ninja team", to quote the godawful 80s toon. They're supposed to blend in as ninja and not allow their enemies to know how many of them there actually are... color coding is a dead give away.

Don't cut yourself on that edge, mate.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by mrmaczaps

I'd rather see the franchise dead & gone, buried forever than keep going with color coded masks. Its infantile. They're a "ninja team", to quote the godawful 80s toon. They're supposed to blend in as ninja and not allow their enemies to know how many of them there actually are... color coding is a dead give away.

I wouldn't go that far. I'm perfectly fine with the rainbow masks being like a "training wheels" for the franchise, for new or super young fans. I get it. Not so much for adults or, you know, sound-minded people who want their favorite ninja clan to not be a sham.

[Wingnut II]

Sure. TBH, it is pretty much impossible to tell which turtle is which in the Mirage comics, especially if they don't have their USUAL weapons on them, and if they don't identify each other by name.

Personally, I like how they handled that situation in the Archie series and the IDW series.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Wingnut II

Sure. TBH, it is pretty much impossible to tell which turtle is which in the Mirage comics, especially if they don't have their USUAL weapons on them, and if they don't identify each other by name.

Again, 20 years of people saying that. Yet no one can produce any panels where it is confusing.

[mrmaczaps]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Again, 20 years of people saying that. Yet no one can produce any panels where it is confusing.

If you read the stories, its always obvious who is who. If you just randomly pick a page and say which turtle is that and there are no weapons, maybe you can't tell but still pretty clear if you flip back a page and then go from there. Context clues. No pandering color coding required.

[frank_one]

Originally Posted by Wingnut II

Sure. TBH, it is pretty much impossible to tell which turtle is

I never had a problem, actually.

[mrmaczaps]

Originally Posted by frank_one

I never had a problem, actually.

I never had any issues either.

[Wildcat]

If it’s only the comics static images and text help but as mentioned sometimes you’ll flip back...which is the exact point of the colors. Natural recognition.

It’s like the most important thing when designing. Make characters as distinct as possible. You should NOT be required to flip back or take a mental note of weapons. It’s the equivalent of looking at belt letters.

Recognition is primarily done through the face/head. If you cannot rely on a natural difference in appearance it’s wrong.

4 identical characters (same face, body type, coloring) in cartoons and movies would be ridiculous. Not for style. For the sake of the characters and audience.

You would not make 4 identical human characters or anything else...unless the intent was to confuse and plot twist...I’m sure someone will argue this even though it’s not the point.

There’s times when duplicates are used but there’s often variation or it’s a herd/army like Foot Soldiers. We’re talking about the 4 main characters who drive the story.

[IndigoErth]

Yeah, pretty much agree there. Sure, if you look back and study it you can usually figure out who you're looking at, but having to stop and try to figure it out in those spots where it's hard to guess isn't ideal.

Nowadays a variation in body language can be enough, and it's funny how you can often guess it right even if it's subtle, but Mirage is a tougher one to sort out sometimes.

[Sumac]

Good luck convincing certain wannabe elitists about that!

[jalexbrown]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

And "I can't tell 4 non-identical green-skinned brothers apart unless they're wearing color-coded bandannas for my benefit!" You know what that sounds like? Well. Let's pretend instead of 4 green-skinned brothers we're talking about 4 black-skinned African American brothers, and if you said the same thing. It would be racist and I'd actually agree that it was. But let's compromise and just call it "incredibly stupid."

Did...did you REALLY just go there? Is your issue with the colored bandanas to the point that you think comparing it to the REAL-LIFE issue of people believing all people of a race to look similar is the MOST appropriate comparison to make? I'm not even typically offended by stuff like that, but I mean...c'mon...this sounds absurd to me.

[Ninja Toitles]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Yeah, pretty much agree there. Sure, if you look back and study it you can usually figure out who you're looking at, but having to stop and try to figure it out in those spots where it's hard to guess isn't ideal.

Nowadays a variation in body language can be enough, and it's funny how you can often guess it right even if it's subtle, but Mirage is a tougher one to sort out sometimes.

They wold need an artist who was always aware of that and draw in cues for the reader at all times. The bandannas should be colored for a lot of reasons.