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Old 07-31-2012, 04:07 PM   #41
Gyt Kaliba
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Thanks, it's my pleasure to try and help. It's not too often that my anime and TMNT fandoms get to work together as nicely as this, so I definitely wanted to see what I could find out.

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Originally Posted by oldmanwinters View Post
I've not yet figured out what episodes Wise must have watched to inspire April O'Neil's original look, but the closet thing I can identify is a late scene from the fantastic (seriously, I'm not even a Lupin fan and I love it) Castle of Cagliostro movie.
Oh wow, I completely FORGOT about that from Castle of Cagliostro. Hmm...that gives me some more questions and some thoughts, but before I get to that -

Quote:
And... because I just happened to see this somewhere (can't remember the reference) and thought it might be more than just a coincidence:

Oh wow! That has to be from the second Lupin the 3rd TV series, due to the Adult Swim logo, as that's the only one that ever got released here (until recently), though we've had plenty of the specials/movies/etc. over the years.

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I don't know much about the early broadcast history of Lupin III in America, but my guess would be that Wise wouldn't have had access to too many episodes. I don't even know that he saw Castle of Cagliostro before 1987. Maybe Fujiko wore a yellow jumpsuit in an early episode or maybe Wise just forgot the colors on the jumpsuit in Castle of Cagliostro?
I'm by no means a Lupin expert, even though I am a pretty big fan, but I want to say that the first things for the series we got here had to be the Cagliostro film and some episodes of the second TV series. Cagliostro would have come first I think. So, are we absolutely sure that it was episodes that Wise saw and not this movie? It just seems the most likely source, and like you said he either forgot that it was a pink jumpsuit, or he changed it to yellow for some reason or another.

This makes me wonder if someone in Japan is aware of how this went down though. If it is the pink jumpsuit and not another part where she had a yellow one, then them doing the jumpsuit look yet again in the new Fujiko series and making it YELLOW this time seems awfully coincidental doesn't it?

As a final info bit - it's no wonder you like Cagliostro even if you're not a Lupin fan. Don't know if you're into his stuff or not, but Cagliostro is kind of a special film for the Lupin franchise, in that it was done by Hayao Miyazaki, the same guy behind stuff like Spirited Away, Princess Mononoke, Ponyo, and so on. His stuff is pretty much considered good even outside of anime fans.
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Old 08-01-2012, 09:51 PM   #42
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Only problem with Cagliostro is that it feels more Miyazaki than ti does Lupin, if that makes any sense.

I would say Cagliostro is indeed a very likely source for them to have seen, especially in the 80s, but it's hard to say for sure. TV industry people tend to see overseas stuff well before most of the public does, just as part of the job. I said second series is likely earlier in this thread, but those Cagliostro screenshots are pretty compelling too.
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Old 08-01-2012, 11:21 PM   #43
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Only problem with Cagliostro is that it feels more Miyazaki than ti does Lupin, if that makes any sense.

I would say Cagliostro is indeed a very likely source for them to have seen, especially in the 80s, but it's hard to say for sure. TV industry people tend to see overseas stuff well before most of the public does, just as part of the job. I said second series is likely earlier in this thread, but those Cagliostro screenshots are pretty compelling too.
Actually, that doesn't make sense. Simply because:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayao_Miyazaki

"Miyazaki left Toei in 1971 for Mushi Production, A Pro, Nippon Animation, and TMS Entertainment where he co-directed six episodes of the first Lupin III series with Isao Takahata."

"Miyazaki then left Nippon Animation in 1979 in the middle of the production of Anne of Green Gables to direct his first feature anime The Castle of Cagliostro (1979), a Lupin III adventure film."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lupin_III

"This series, in which Lupin wears a red jacket, was broadcast for 155 episodes, with the last one airing on October 6, 1980. Episodes 145 and 155 were directed by Hayao Miyazaki under the pseudonym Teruki Tsutomu, and they marked his final involvement with the Lupin franchise"

Miyazaki's early career was working on Lupin the 3rd.

And April's costume was inspired by Fujiko from Lupin the 3rd? That's awesome. I loved watching that show on Adult Swim at it's ridiculous 4AM timeslot...and they wonder why it didn't work? >_>
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Old 08-02-2012, 05:51 AM   #44
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Yeah, he did some episodes, and they are good episodes too. But Cagliostro still has a feel more like the other Miyazaki films than it is like other Lupin material, in my opinion.

Interestingly enough, Lupin also sort of has a Mirage vs OT thing where the original manga is a lot more violent and serious compared to it's more famous and humorous TV shows. The first show (and the new Fujiko show) are probably closer to the manga than the second show, which is the long-running, more comedic, most famous one. But then again I have yet to ever have the chance to actually read the manga myself, so it might not be quite as pronounced as people make it out to be.
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Old 08-02-2012, 10:03 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Cryomancer View Post
Only problem with Cagliostro is that it feels more Miyazaki than ti does Lupin, if that makes any sense.
I feel the same way actually. I love Cagliostro, it's a great film, but it's definitely closer in vibe to Miyazaki's normal works than it is to Lupin. So while it's a really good movie, it's kind of only a 'decent' Lupin film.

Then again, I forget the title, but there's an actually Lupin film or special that's managed to put me to SLEEP, something Cagliostro could never cause, so take that as you will.

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I would say Cagliostro is indeed a very likely source for them to have seen, especially in the 80s, but it's hard to say for sure. TV industry people tend to see overseas stuff well before most of the public does, just as part of the job. I said second series is likely earlier in this thread, but those Cagliostro screenshots are pretty compelling too.
Hmm...you have a point. I was kind of going towards thinking it had to be Cagliostro now, since that was the only thing available here at that time I think (if even it was), but there's a lot of other ways he could have seen ANY of it. Either way, I'll be looking out for that kind of outfit for Fujiko in anything old from Lupin that I get to watch now, and if I find anything I'll post it.

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Miyazaki's early career was working on Lupin the 3rd.
Not clipping the rest of your post to disregard it, just trying to keep my reply from being any bigger than it has to be.

Miyazaki certainly did get started on Lupin, but in general his work on Lupin episodes was probably more 'strict' than what he was allowed to do in Cagliostro. I haven't seen the episodes in question, but I'd bet he probably had to keep things closer to standard Lupin practices, whereas in Cagliostro he was allowed to 'go wild' as it were.

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And April's costume was inspired by Fujiko from Lupin the 3rd? That's awesome. I loved watching that show on Adult Swim at it's ridiculous 4AM timeslot...and they wonder why it didn't work? >_>
Yeah, Lupin's never gotten superb treatment over here sadly, which is why I'm thankful for every little thing we get for it.

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Originally Posted by Cryomancer View Post
Interestingly enough, Lupin also sort of has a Mirage vs OT thing where the original manga is a lot more violent and serious compared to it's more famous and humorous TV shows. The first show (and the new Fujiko show) are probably closer to the manga than the second show, which is the long-running, more comedic, most famous one. But then again I have yet to ever have the chance to actually read the manga myself, so it might not be quite as pronounced as people make it out to be.
I've only read a few volumes of the manga, and...well...I'm not sure I'd go so far as to compare it to Mirage V.S. OT. There's definitely some tone changes and such just like what happened there, but I'm not sure I'd put it on that same level. Personally, anyway.

The original manga has an artstyle very akin to early MAD magazine artwork (was even inspired by that if I recall right), the Lupin gang isn't really a 'gang' at all (you're lucky to see Lupin and Jigen together in it, and there's not really a 'Fujiko' per say, just lots of busty women), and in it Lupin is a lot more potentially vile than in the usual anime adaptations. It's heavily implied, in gag form no less, that he rapes a lot of the women he meets...so yeah, the anime version of Lupin that most people know is a little different from the manga. I actually prefer the slightly toned down version myself.

Anyway...sorry for going off on the deep end about Lupin here, but hopefully some of it also flows back into the conversation at hand too.
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Old 08-02-2012, 10:47 AM   #46
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I think 80's APril is probably the prettiest design out there.

Same here.

I love OT April a lot. It's by far my favorite version.



I would love to see that version again but add the fighting ability from the newer cartoons (and the comics)
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Old 08-02-2012, 11:58 AM   #47
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Good stuff
Glad I'm not alone on the Cagliostro thing. And yeah the implied rape and lack of any "team" dynamic is sort of the tone shift sort of stuff I meant with my comparison. I agree that Lupin is more enjoyable when you can actually like the guy, so it's not like I want that sort of thing going on in the TV specials or anything.
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Old 08-03-2012, 02:09 PM   #48
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Same here.

I love OT April a lot. It's by far my favorite version.



I would love to see that version again but add the fighting ability from the newer cartoons (and the comics)
Completely agree! Best of both worlds.
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Old 10-06-2012, 02:13 PM   #49
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Sorry to bump this old thread (there's not a rule against it here, is there? I know of a few forums where it is is why I ask), but after I found out about this in another thread, I went poking around, and I found this.



This is from that newer Lupin the 3rd show about Fujiko herself, but it kind of looks like a reference to that outfit as well doesn't it?

Found this one as well. She definitely looks April-ish here.

So is this 80s April's inspiration? Wouldn't be surprized considering it was a Japanese animation studio that animated the first season of TMNT.
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Old 10-06-2012, 03:04 PM   #50
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Those are screenshots from a pretty recent TV show, so no, not those specifically.
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Old 08-10-2014, 04:44 PM   #51
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I know that David Wise and his contributions to TMNT history has been a hot topic of debate on another thread, but I figured I'd at least post this update here for posterity's sake.

On his FB account this week, Wise posted a screencap of the Lupin III episode in which Fujiko is wearing the yellow jumpsuit/white boots which came to be associated with April O'Neil in the old show:


I'm not a Lupin fan, so I have no idea which episode that was, but that is the first visual evidence I've seen on the specific look being copied. The middle picture of the statue is the outfit that Fujiko wore in Castle of Caligostro in which she did pose as a news reporter.
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Old 05-06-2016, 06:00 PM   #52
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http://www.crunchyroll.com/lupin-the...e-peace-685769

This is the episode of Lupin III where the Yellow Jumpsuit comes from.
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Old 05-06-2016, 07:38 PM   #53
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http://www.crunchyroll.com/lupin-the...e-peace-685769

This is the episode of Lupin III where the Yellow Jumpsuit comes from.
Hey, thanks so much for finding that fact! Do you know if it showed up in only one episode?
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Old 05-06-2016, 09:36 PM   #54
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I'm curious of the episode. I can't use Crunchyroll since I'm out of the region. Can you tell me what ep/season it is? Is it from the 1971 series or later?
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Old 05-07-2016, 03:03 AM   #55
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I find it kind of strange that Fujiko is stated as an inspiration when the cartoon seems like it's just a cleaned up version of what she looked in issue two. But then again, they did arbitrarily decide to make Stockman white and give the Utrom-esque character a non-Utrom backstory for no reason
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Old 05-30-2016, 02:58 PM   #56
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I find it kind of strange that Fujiko is stated as an inspiration when the cartoon seems like it's just a cleaned up version of what she looked in issue two. But then again, they did arbitrarily decide to make Stockman white and give the Utrom-esque character a non-Utrom backstory for no reason
Yeah, considering that she was already wearing a jumpsuit in her first Mirage appearance, I think it's more so that when Wise saw her in the jumpsuit, he latched on to it because it reminded him of Fujiko. And, then he decided that their version of April should resemble Fujiko somewhat.
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Old 01-16-2023, 05:43 AM   #57
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Here's another picture of Fujiko I found where she looks like April, taken from one of the openings, wearing a yellow raincoat

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Old 01-16-2023, 07:39 AM   #58
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Seriously, why keep citing Fujiko?


Her first appearence had a jumpsuit and a similar haircut to the cartoon:


And here's the cover by Richard Corben, still made well before the cartoon was in production. It's basically the same design aside from the color of the jumpsuit:


I know David Wise said Fujiko was an inspiration (though I can't really get a source on when and where he said it), but David Wise was known for straight up lying in interviews to make himself seem more important to the TMNT franchise than he really was, I seriously he'd ever admit the character designers probably just used Corben's design as a basis.

The Lupin III anime had a total of 228 episodes and four movies by the time TMNT aired, if the character had a tendency to keep changing outfit/haircuts and had reasons to wear jumpsuits a few times, then of course she would have elements at some point that would resemble April's cartoon design. If there is one instance of her wearing a pink jumpsuit with pockets, on instance of her wearing a yellow jumpsuit with white boots, one instance of he having a haircut similar to April's and one instance of her... Looking out of a car window like April does in the intro... Yeah... Then these could just be coincidences.

What seems more likely than April's design being directly based on Fujiko's to me, is that someone noticed these similarities, asked David Wise about it and he just rolled with it because it made him look more important.

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Originally Posted by NeonTurtledude View Post
Here's another picture of Fujiko I found where she looks like April, taken from one of the openings, wearing a yellow raincoat

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmmBLOFWA...png&name=small
This one is easily the biggest stretch aside from looking out a car window, at least with the pink jumpsuit there are a few more similar elements and the yellow one matches both the color and type of outfit. This one is just color.

The thing is, if a character wears a lot of outfits then they will effectively have a multitude of designs and you could probably find multiple characters who wore something similar at some point. You could probably take characters like Fujiko, Bulma, Mary Jane Watson... Or hell, even Mirage April, now that I think about it... And find a similar looking character for any of them somewhere, probably more than one the more designs they have.

I'm willing to bet that if you keep any of Fujiko's designs in mind and were to look, you'd find way more characters who "could have been inspired by her". For that matter, I'm pretty sure you could do something similar in reverse, take the design of 2003 or 2012 April and find a similar looking character who predate them and could thus "have been the inspiration" or later characters they "could have inspired".
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Old 01-16-2023, 09:50 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by neatoman View Post
Her first appearence had a jumpsuit and a similar haircut to the cartoon:

And here's the cover by Richard Corben, still made well before the cartoon was in production. It's basically the same design aside from the color of the jumpsuit:

I know David Wise said Fujiko was an inspiration (though I can't really get a source on when and where he said it), but David Wise was known for straight up lying in interviews to make himself seem more important to the TMNT franchise than he really was, I seriously he'd ever admit the character designers probably just used Corben's design as a basis.
I don't think David Wise was lying. He just made a mix of designs from April Mirage and Fujiko. The basis of the design was definitely taken from Mirage, but some of the elements (yellow jumpsuit, white boots and light anime styling) were taken from Fujiko. There is one particular episode that Wise was talking about and I definitely see similarities in this particular version of Fujiko with April.

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Old 01-16-2023, 11:05 AM   #60
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I don't think David Wise was lying. He just made a mix of designs from April Mirage and Fujiko. The basis of the design was definitely taken from Mirage, but some of the elements (yellow jumpsuit, white boots and light anime styling) were taken from Fujiko. There is one particular episode that Wise was talking about and I definitely see similarities in this particular version of Fujiko with April.
Agreed!

Here are a couple of archived Facebook posts where Wise talks about the April-Fujiko connection:

Spoiler:


https://drive.google.com/file/d/1H4R...w?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EQF...w?usp=drivesdk
Aforementioned article:
https://screencrush.com/teenage-muta...imated-series/

Edit: updated Drive links sharing settings, should open now
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