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Old 08-23-2017, 03:54 PM   #21
Wesley
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I'm not shocked by this, to be honest. I never really thought Joss Whedon was a feminist anyway as evidenced by the way the character of Cordelia Chase was written towards the end of the tv show Angel. I still have no problem being a fan of his work, though.
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Old 08-23-2017, 04:23 PM   #22
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What's a feminist?
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I can hear it now: "I'm sorry little April, I told you that if you didn't take good care of them I'd be taking them away. Now they are going to the lab to be abused for experimentation" (You could almost rewrite this as April caused the fire to get back at her father over it...)
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Old 08-23-2017, 04:27 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by plastroncafe View Post
There's being tempted, there's following through on that temptation, and then there's blaming the temptation for the fall.
Again, I think the line gets blurry here... If you say "It was the temptation that made me do it!" aren't you technically blaming yourself by saying "I was weaker than the temptation"? It's bit of a circular way of thinking...

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This isn't cheating.
Didn't say it was; merely stressing how common the lifestyle of having multiple partners in the film industry is.

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Begin? People have been doing this from damn near day one.
The guy is very fond of his tropes, and there are folks who are very VERY vocal about not liking those tropes.
Sorry, yeah, I meant his newly detached fanbase following this news. I know he's always had his haters.

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It's my understanding that Whedonesque was beginning to wind down anyway, and this just cut that wind-down shorter.
Ah, okay. I don't visit the site so I had no idea

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Finding out this guy is a douche in his personal life might give me pause, or it might taint things of his that I love...but I'll still likely watch what he makes.
I think there was a thread about this not too long ago... I generally conceded that unless there was an occurrence that was personally targeted against me, I have no problem consuming art or entertainment from whatever source it comes. A favourite youtuber of mine, Passion of the Nerd, posted this and pretty much sums up my feelings...
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I am of the belief that art, once it's shared, no longer belongs to the artist and is its own thing. I don't think any of what has come to light tarnishes Buffy, Angel, or Firefly and I try and stay out of news relating to celebrities personal lives. But like it or not, some of the complexity and nuance to Buffy is probably there BECAUSE Joss is a flawed and complicated individual.
Especially in the case of Whedon, where things like television and film have so many hands involved in the creative process.
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Old 08-23-2017, 04:42 PM   #24
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Again, I think the line gets blurry here... If you say "It was the temptation that made me do it!" aren't you technically blaming yourself by saying "I was weaker than the temptation"? It's bit of a circular way of thinking...
At the end of the day it's just semantics, but to me blaming the temptation is like saying one had no control.
One has control, one just decided not to heed it.
It's...cowardly passing of the buck.

I'd expect better from a guy who's really vocal about being against the whole, "Guys just don't have self control. Amirite?" thing.

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Didn't say it was; merely stressing how common the lifestyle of having multiple partners in the film industry is.
It's not just the film industry, but I catch your meaning.
The issue here isn't that he wanted to sleep around, it's that his committed lifepartner didn't give consent.

At very least that's a betrayal of trust, at most...he literally put her life in danger.


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I think there was a thread about this not too long ago... I generally conceded that unless there was an occurrence that was personally targeted against me, I have no problem consuming art or entertainment from whatever source it comes. A favourite youtuber of mine, Passion of the Nerd, posted this and pretty much sums up my feelings...

Especially in the case of Whedon, where things like television and film have so many hands involved in the creative process.
For me it's a matter of money.
Do I want my money going into the pocket of someone I find abhorrent?
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So your wants and needs as a fan should outweigh everyone else's?
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There's no sense catering just to one demographic which is idiotic.
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just ignore what you don't like rather than obsessing over it and move on with your life.
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Old 08-23-2017, 04:54 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by plastroncafe View Post
At the end of the day it's just semantics, but to me blaming the temptation is like saying one had no control.
One has control, one just decided not to heed it.
It's...cowardly passing of the buck.
All fair points. Well said.
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For me it's a matter of money.
Do I want my money going into the pocket of someone I find abhorrent?
I can understand that reservation. But again, when speaking in terms of film or television where Joss doesn't get nearly every nickel and dime when someone buys a Buffy boxset, would you condemn the other producers and distributors by association?

I suppose there's always...
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Old 08-23-2017, 05:07 PM   #26
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I can understand that reservation. But again, when speaking in terms of film or television where Joss doesn't get nearly every nickel and dime when someone buys a Buffy boxset, would you condemn the other producers and distributors by association?

I suppose there's always...
HA! That or the library. Or a streaming service.
Or....you could be like me old enough to already have all of Buffy, Angel, and Firefly on dvd.
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So your wants and needs as a fan should outweigh everyone else's?
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Originally Posted by Sabacooza View Post
There's no sense catering just to one demographic which is idiotic.
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Originally Posted by Vegita-San View Post
just ignore what you don't like rather than obsessing over it and move on with your life.
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Old 08-24-2017, 09:00 AM   #27
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I'd also like to say that if Whedonesque is shutting down because it's owner's opinion on the man changed overnight then that's hilariously sad.
I read a bit of the comments section and the site's admin said there had been a plan to close the site for sometime, they just picked this incident to speed up the process.
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Old 08-24-2017, 08:02 PM   #28
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Respect the creations, but remember that the creators are only human. And like many humans, they can often be assholes.

I met one of Marvel's top current writers when I was in college (not saying his name for the sake of not being petty) after inhaling a lot of stuff he did for DC during my childhood and early adolescence. He was a real dick in person, and
I got a strong vibe of elitism from him. It was kind of ironic to see him post a lot of SJW-oriented attacks directed towards various people on Twitter not too long after.
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Mirage [is]...a comic about life and how life and the people closest to you just absolutely suck sometimes. It's "adult" in a very real sense, in that it deals with heavy themes that resonate more with adults, not that it's full of blood and titties or whatever.
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Old 08-24-2017, 08:04 PM   #29
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Respect the creations, but remember that the creators are only human. And like many humans, they can often be assholes.

I met one of Marvel's top current writers when I was in college (not saying his name for the sake of not being petty) after inhaling a lot of stuff he did for DC during my childhood and early adolescence. He was a real dick in person, and
I got a strong vibe of elitism from him. It was kind of ironic to see him post a lot of SJW-oriented attacks directed towards various people on Twitter not too long after.
Is it Dan Slott? I bet it's Dan Slott.
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Old 08-24-2017, 08:09 PM   #30
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Is it Dan Slott? I bet it's Dan Slott.
No, it wasn't him.

PM me if you really want the details.

I don't care for Slott's Spider-Man, and I know a lot of people can't stand his Twitter interactions with fans, but his She-Hulk was all right.
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Mirage [is]...a comic about life and how life and the people closest to you just absolutely suck sometimes. It's "adult" in a very real sense, in that it deals with heavy themes that resonate more with adults, not that it's full of blood and titties or whatever.
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[TMNT 1990 director Steve] Barron recognized the early Mirage issues as perfect storyboards. It's a shame no other filmmaker has.
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Old 08-24-2017, 08:48 PM   #31
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Wasn't there a big fiasco about Whedon equating a sterile woman to a "monster" in the last Avengers movie that made him delete his Twitter and all after all the backlash?
It was typical SJWs typically taking words from context.
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Old 08-24-2017, 11:04 PM   #32
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Translation: people had a different opinion than me.
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Originally Posted by Spike Spiegel View Post
So your wants and needs as a fan should outweigh everyone else's?
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Originally Posted by Sabacooza View Post
There's no sense catering just to one demographic which is idiotic.
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Originally Posted by Vegita-San View Post
just ignore what you don't like rather than obsessing over it and move on with your life.
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Old 11-23-2017, 04:06 PM   #33
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It appears that The Wrap article has since been updated.
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Old 07-16-2020, 04:00 AM   #34
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Whedon in "trouble" again:

https://www.hindustantimes.com/holly...J5LPFoYcP.html

Eh, though... I'm not sure I'm really against him in this case. Sounds like... two people on his crew started dating and he didn't want a conflict of interest and stuck to his guns on that? And they were really mad about that as a result? Ehhh... seems like no real story here.
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Old 07-16-2020, 05:45 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Andrew NDB View Post
Whedon in "trouble" again:

https://www.hindustantimes.com/holly...J5LPFoYcP.html

Eh, though... I'm not sure I'm really against him in this case. Sounds like... two people on his crew started dating and he didn't want a conflict of interest and stuck to his guns on that? And they were really mad about that as a result? Ehhh... seems like no real story here.
Says right there in the article that they were engaged, which is a little bit more than just dating. Dude wanted them to call their whole marriage off for a TV show then got mad and threw in a thinly veiled threat when they didn't comply.
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Old 07-16-2020, 06:43 AM   #36
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Here's another account of Whedon having a tantrum from James Marsters, formerly Spike

https://www.cinemablend.com/televisi...th-joss-whedon
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Old 07-16-2020, 07:06 AM   #37
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Yeah, I've had wrestling promoters pull the same sh*t on me regarding my wife, it's bullsh*t but a lot of people are like that. It's scummy, I don't like it.
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Old 07-16-2020, 12:05 PM   #38
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Surprise! Another male feminist is a ****** ****.

No pity for him, though, he helped to create this culture and profited from it. I don't want him to be chased from profession, but if it make him loose some pounds and dollars, good.
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Old 07-16-2020, 12:19 PM   #39
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Here's another account of Whedon having a tantrum from James Marsters, formerly Spike

https://www.cinemablend.com/televisi...th-joss-whedon
It's strange to me that justice essentially becomes a bunch of people talking **** and spreading it online, so other people won't be fooled by your "fake persona" or whatever.

I'm not here to judge Whedon or judge his, uh, "haters". I just find the whole thing kinda weird.
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Old 07-16-2020, 12:52 PM   #40
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I actually like a lot of Whedon's work. Buffy, Angel, Firefly, The Avengers but I've always found his feminism kinda off. I don't begrudge some Carry On...esque humour as it's pretty harmless in moderation but the fact that he used the same face planting joke multiple times even going so far as to getting a body double when the actress refused to do it is quite problematic. I also found the character 'arc' Buffy goes through in Season 6 of the show very questionable. Joss routinely puts her in humiliating and degrading situations were the only time she feels alive is to have nasty sex with a guy she hates. The absolute pits is when Spike tries to rape her and she lets him live .

The fact that he has fine some very sketchy things isn't a huge suprise. Thankfully I tend to appreciate his works as a collaborative effort. seeing Angel seasons 3 & 4 which Whedon had less involvement in you can see the superior character work done by David Greenwalt and co but Joss definitely brings a certain tone that makes the show more marketable. His career is already in dodgy territory which is strange to think when what killed it was an Avengers sequel which didn't quite hit the mark of the original. I doubt these revelations will do much to move the dial significantly either way.
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