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Old 03-20-2021, 11:31 AM   #1
sdp
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If Casey Jones were in SOTO..

How would the movie have been different. Granted without changing the budget or script a lot. Would he just have replaced Keno? Would he have gotten any decent enough scenes with that script or would he not have barely been used? I don't know if he could've had any big role with all the stuff that's happening but if we remove Keno there are plenty of scenes for Casey to have.
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Old 03-20-2021, 12:31 PM   #2
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Tough to say. I really do think they would have had to substantially change the script, because the whole "infiltrate the Foot Clan" thing definitely wouldn't have worked with Casey in the role instead of Keno. Not that that specific plot point actually paid huge dividends ANYWAY and was mostly just filler to give Keno something to do.

As a kid Casey's absence was one of my biggest points of frustration with the second movie, but it really would have had to have a pretty different plot in order to make his role work. You'd most likely have to remove Keno because there's just too many characters otherwise, but it's not as simple as just slipping Casey into most of those scenes.

Tough call. I'd much rather have Casey over Keno but it really would have ended up a different movie, and we didn't get that movie, so it's tough to say how it would have turned out.
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Old 03-20-2021, 01:06 PM   #3
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Has there ever been anything to indicate they started planning II with Casey involved? It must have been written in a hurry, unless the first drafts were written before I was even released.
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Old 03-20-2021, 01:46 PM   #4
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There's no place for a violent vigilante in a movie for kids. I'm sure he was written off pretty quickly during the preproduction of SOTO. What I find more weird is the fact that they decided to bring him back for TMNT3.
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Old 03-20-2021, 02:06 PM   #5
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Yes, that's exactly it. If there was ever any possibility of him being in II, it would have been dropped as soon as it was decided II would just capitulate to the complaints about the tone of I. I still wonder if the story was worked out to any significant degree before all that became clear, though.

As for III, it was two years later, and I suppose they just thought either things had changed, or they were under far less scrutiny post-Turtlemania.
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Old 03-20-2021, 04:16 PM   #6
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Has there ever been anything to indicate they started planning II with Casey involved? It must have been written in a hurry, unless the first drafts were written before I was even released.
Casey Jones was in the first draft of the script. Writing started right after the first movie was released. I don't believe the first draft has ever surfaced.
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Old 03-20-2021, 04:35 PM   #7
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Yeah, you could pretty much just switch him & Keno, taking out the pizza boy element. He would've been significantly neutered though, so maybe it was for the best. His on screen legacy remains in tact.
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Old 03-20-2021, 04:45 PM   #8
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What would he actually do, though? He sure couldn't do the whole "infiltrate the Foot Clan" thing because Tatsu would definitely remember him, and beyond that he'd be way too old.

You could swap him and Keno but you'd still have to make significant alterations to the script. Don't get me wrong, it wouldn't be a bad way to go, but sdp specifically said "How could it be done without making too many significant changes to the script?" and I don't think that's possible. I think you'd have to rewrite a significant chunk of the movie.
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Old 03-20-2021, 04:55 PM   #9
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Significantly altering the script is Secret of the Ooze would no bad thing in my book.

Seriously though he didn't really do anything in TMNT III although he presence is actually felt. I could picture some good banter with the turtles, Raph, Don and some romantic tension with April. I'm sure he'd get a fight scene or two with the Foot and Tatsu.
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Old 03-20-2021, 11:03 PM   #10
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On a similar note, instead of making up Tokka and Rahzar why couldn't they have just used Leatherhead in the movie? I mean he was in both the Mirage and Archie comic books at the time, and of course the cartoon! Plus instead of the whole plot about Professor Perry coming up with the anti-mutagen, we could've seen the Turtles try to figure out a way to convince Leatherhead that Shredder was using him for evil purposes.
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Old 03-21-2021, 01:16 AM   #11
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Like everything and everyone else in the movie, he'd just be wasted. The only thing that would have made TMNT II any good would be a completely different script.

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On a similar note, instead of making up Tokka and Rahzar why couldn't they have just used Leatherhead in the movie?
Probably they were afraid that kids would be afraid of him, or that moms would complain. Who even knows. They were suddenly afraid of everybody after they released the first movie and it doesn't even make sense why. If Leatherhead was in TMNT II he'd probably just be like Tokka or Rahzar, bumbling around talking about "mama!" and all of that.
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Old 03-21-2021, 08:02 AM   #12
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There's no place for a violent vigilante in a movie for kids. I'm sure he was written off pretty quickly during the preproduction of SOTO. What I find more weird is the fact that they decided to bring him back for TMNT3.
Well, they still put him in III.

Actually, Casey's stuff was the best part of III even though he wasn't a violent vigilante in it.
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Old 03-21-2021, 11:22 AM   #13
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I think removing him wasn't because of him being a vigilante or "dangerous", just hat in the 90s casey jones really wasn't that popular, he wasn't in any of the video games when TMNT was popular, he only appears in about 5 episodes of the original series, in fact I never saw an episode with him as a kid. He wasn't a major character for most people, I only knew him as "the guy with the friday 13th mask" and I didn't know much about him. He wasn't in the same league of importance of the neutrinos, hell even the punk frogs I'd say. Keno from SOTO was basically as important as Casey Jones to most kids eyes as an ally to the turtles.

Of course there's this revisionist history of Casey Jones always being important, even the crossovers basically try to pretend that Casey Jones was with the turtles more. NECAs toyline included him before many other important characters from the 87 show despite being a really minor character. The popularity of the character now is what drives that mainly but not because he was important.

I do think Casey in SOTO would've hurt his character and oddly enough I also think his appearance for humor in TMNT III worked for him and wasn't harmed by that awful movie because he wasn't a part of the actual story. I can't really imagine a great story for him in SOTO.
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Old 03-21-2021, 11:34 AM   #14
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Different where I live. Every kid loved Casey even though he wasn't in that many episodes. He was way more popular than either the Neutrinos or the Punk Frogs over here and he was one of the most well-received parts of the first movie. Most kids like Keno just fine but everybody was a little confused that Casey wasn't in the second one, and really happy that he was back in for the third movie (even though he didn't really do anything).

((Shrug))
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Old 03-21-2021, 03:51 PM   #15
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Outside of the 1990 movie Casey was never important but he was very popular. That movie alone cemented him as a key figure in the TMNT mythos. It's why I keep saying that movie was just as - if not more important to peoples perceptions of TMNT than the '87 cartoon.

As for Keno? Ernie Reyes Jr seems like a nice guy and a damned hard worker on the first movie I'd hate to put him out of work but if I had a time machine and went back and infiltrated the making of Secret of the Ooze I'd definitely take out the Keno character.

I think a better approach would have been to have Donatello be the one to storm off and go it alone to find the Foot. Picture him holed up somewhere with a map of New York with pins were Foot have been sighted. He calculates were the place that is equidistant to all these Foot sightings as the most likely Foot Head Quarters. He goes to check it out and is caught spying, he puts up a valiant fight is captured. In April's apartment a letter comes through her door. It's a picture of a captured Don with the location of the Foot HQ.

Film plays out exactly the same but you've taken out Keno's entire reason to be there.
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Old 03-21-2021, 03:55 PM   #16
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Haven’t seen SOTO in a while, but they could’ve worked him in for the infiltration on Foot HQ (‘A little too Raph’ scene). An extra pair of hands for that might’ve come in handy
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Old 03-21-2021, 04:14 PM   #17
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Casey was more present in the OG comics than the toon. The movie tried to be more comic than toon. Makes sense to have Casey in the film but SOTO wouldn't have had a place for him as written as others have said. Issues 48 & 49 of volume 1 Mirage could have made for an interesting subplot to shoe horn him in though.
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Old 03-21-2021, 04:39 PM   #18
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Haven’t seen SOTO in a while, but they could’ve worked him in for the infiltration on Foot HQ (‘A little too Raph’ scene). An extra pair of hands for that might’ve come in handy
Would have made even more sense since it was Raph that was kidnapped.

I feel I should also point out that in my version it would still work as Casey and Don were close in the movies.
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