Official Episode Discussion S2 #18 "Pizza Face"

[Shark_Blade]

People are gonna realize Antonio's gone now and we also get an origin story for him. So I doubt it's all a dream.

Originally Posted by shinefra

wooow hahaha you made that pizza?

Ha, I wish. I found it, tmnt fans are fantastic!

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Purple Kraken

This episode was not only pointless, but horrible. We already have about three filler episodes, so why do we need more? The episode could have been used to explore Mikey's character, instead of being a pointless gag episode.

How was it a pointless gag episode? I swear, almost all of you missed the entire point of the episode.

And you're complaining about fillers in a 26 episode season? Sounds like you people want 13 episode seasons if you don't want filler.

[JTH]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

How was it a pointless gag episode? I swear, almost all of you missed the entire point of the episode.

And you're complaining about fillers in a 26 episode season? Sounds like you people want 13 episode seasons if you don't want filler.

I actually agree with you on this Cubed, some people do tend to forget that the filler episodes are just as important in the grand scheme of things as the main story.

If a person just started watching the show right in the middle of these major story arcs, they'd be lost as hell, especially right now with everything going on with April and such.

And now that we're a season and a half in, you run the risk of losing new fans that are trying to get into the show. These silly crash TV fillers are the best ones to introduce someone to a show, especially after The Manhatten Project which probably attracted some new fans after seeing the 80s Turtles. You can't just mash back into the main plot after that; those fans will be clueless and may tune back out, they have to ease back into story which these last four episodes did, next episode looks like it will be back on course though.

[FlawedCoil82]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

What are you refering to? The majority of Season 2 has been written just as well as Season 1.

I do not agree at all. Season 1 had 4....maybe 5 episodes that were "below par" in my eyes, whereas Season 2 has had 4 or 5 episodes that did not disappoint me or bore me to tears. For one, I am BORED TO DEATH of the stupid ass Kraang. They do not interest me and their major storyline should have ended after the Season 1 finale. The canisters of mutagen being lost in the city was an excuse to make more mutants and more toys. As I have said many times before...I have ZERO interest in watching the turtles fight aliens, robots, monsters or mutants who are not equally skilled in martial arts like they are. Lasers, guns, spaceships, martial arts-less mutants, etc. Boring!

Also, the absurd episodes in this season are so beyond silly and random that it makes me feel embarassed to watch them. I loved watching all the 1st Season shows with my dad. I could watch every episode without wincing (perhaps the only exceptions being "Pigeon Pete" and "Spiderbytez"). Not so in Season 2. We now have dancing fungus, butt cannons, turtle wizards, ice cream cats, talking pizzas, repulsive acne gags, etc. without any "Wow!" episodes to balance them out. There is no way I could watch half of these episodes with my dad without feeling shame at how childish it feels and how I'd be torturing him. The first season never made me feel that way. Only Slash, Newtralizer, Tiger Claw and the episodes where Karai battles the turtles with the Foot have interested me. I suppose I can make a case for Mutagen Man as well, but obviously not for his fighting skills. Beyond that, everything else has been so boring to me to where they are not episodes that I ever care if I see again. I want to see the turtles fight REAL threats. Life-threatening threats (without all the goofiness). Threats to where I feel like the turtles could get their shells handed to them in a fight if they slip up and villains who can dish back everything the turtles throw at them.

[Powder]

Originally Posted by FlawedCoil82

As I have said many times before...I have ZERO interest in watching the turtles fight aliens, robots, monsters or mutants who are not equally skilled in martial arts like they are. Lasers, guns, spaceships, martial arts-less mutants, etc. Boring!

That's... literally every version of the TMNT. Ever.

[FlawedCoil82]

Thats true Powder, but if we are only talking the cartoons, then I felt that the 4kids series at least made it more interesting by having ongoing arcs that continued into each other and I think they executed it better. I feel they made the threats against the turtles seem genuinely dangerous. Apart from Shredder in this series, I don't really feel that any of the other villains are competent at being serious threats. They now have to pretty much make a joke out of everything.

[JH24]

Originally Posted by FlawedCoil82

Thats true Powder, but if we are only talking the cartoons, then I felt that the 4kids series at least made it more interesting by having ongoing arcs that continued into each other and I think they executed it better. I feel they made the threats against the turtles seem genuinely dangerous. Apart from Shredder in this series, I don't really feel that any of the other villains are competent at being serious threats. They now have to pretty much make a joke out of everything.

This series has ongoing story arcs as well though. The Kraang planning to terraform the world, the threat of Shredder looming over the turtles, there's the storyline of Karai, Leonardo and Splinter, Donatello trying to find a reliable retromutagen he can use in larger quantities, etc.

The 2k3 series did very well with ongoing arcs, but the 2k12 series has its own set of arcs as well.

Besides Shredder, I would view the Kraang as a credible threat despite their often more comedic portrayal. They've pushed the turtles to their limits several times (especially at the end of season 1, the encounter with the Kraang Droid in "Mutation Situation", the large robot in "Target April O'Neill," the April clones and traps in "Kraang Conspiracy", etc. I would wish the Kraang would appear more competent, but if they were as serious as Shredder they should have been able to destroy the turtles a long time ago.

Slash in their first encounter was a real threat as well, if he had wanted he could have killed Raph's brothers on the spot. Same for the Rat King when he controlled Splinter, if Leo hadn't been able to get through to him...

I admit I don't find the Kraang as interesting as for example the Shredder story arc, they lack a kind of "charisma", a kind of personality. But they have a darker streak that does surface from time to time. ("True, but this is more entertaining to Kraang." When they were about to take a DNA sample from April, enjoying the process that would kill her)


I understand what you mean though, and for me the most interesting and best episodes have been as well the ones with Shredder, Karai, Slash, Newtralizer, Tiger Claw or Mutagen Man. (Especially for Donatello not giving up)

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by FlawedCoil82

Thats true Powder, but if we are only talking the cartoons, then I felt that the 4kids series at least made it more interesting by having ongoing arcs that continued into each other and I think they executed it better. I feel they made the threats against the turtles seem genuinely dangerous. Apart from Shredder in this series, I don't really feel that any of the other villains are competent at being serious threats. They now have to pretty much make a joke out of everything.

The majority of 4kids episodes that did not focus on the Foot were them fighting sci-fi monsters, mutants or aliens.

What did you think Quarry and the other underground mutants were? Just because they looked like bugs doesn't mean they weren't mutants.

[Metalwolf]

Originally Posted by jth

I actually agree with you on this Cubed, some people do tend to forget that the filler episodes are just as important in the grand scheme of things as the main story.

It's not that they're unimportant, it's just that most of them aren't doing a good job at getting the point across without trying to be silly or gross. I like Shallacne for example, but it could have been far better simply by not having the acne thing in it at all. I would change it to simply having Mikey look for a centrifuge for Don to prove himself competent to his brothers, after one too many dismissals. The other stuff in the episode happens the same way with the introduction of Rahzar, but instead of an acne cure, he's praised by his brothers. It's still a Mikey episode, but removes the stuff that turned people off.

Originally Posted by jth

If a person just started watching the show right in the middle of these major story arcs, they'd be lost as hell, especially right now with everything going on with April and such.

And now that we're a season and a half in, you run the risk of losing new fans that are trying to get into the show. These silly crash TV fillers are the best ones to introduce someone to a show, especially after The Manhatten Project which probably attracted some new fans after seeing the 80s Turtles. You can't just mash back into the main plot after that; those fans will be clueless and may tune back out, they have to ease back into story which these last four episodes did, next episode looks like it will be back on course though.

This excuse for fillers isn't a good one. They could still watch the previous episodes that they missed on Itunes or Amazon, they aren't going to be 'lost' when they have the ample opportunity to play catch up.

And potential new fans are more likely to be turned off by a show that looks too 'kiddy.' Stuff that is serious tends to hook and keep in more fans because it often features the more cooler badguys and heroes doing awesome stuff. Plus it doesn't try to play fast and loose with it's plots, making what's shown feel more relevant because it's not going to be forgotten about for 8 episodes, only to have the follow up buried in yet more filler. This show is starting to aim too kiddy now, and a show that aims too kiddy ends up also playing it too safe and being afraid to confuse or scare it's audience. Kiddy type shows also end using up a lot of episode slots with goofy filler for 'kid appeal.' This eventually loses fans once the novelty wears off, and it starts to bore it's audience.

[Kanon]

I just watched the episode and was surprised how good it was.
(Your arguments made me a little worried )
It was a one of the episodes, were I just wanted to watch it again (right after watching it)

Okay, Mikeys character didn`t make any real progress, but at least it was pretty funny to see him fighting his beloved food.

[blindturtle02]

Metalwolf, still not sure how I feel about these fillers myself. I did enjoy this one but hope that we're not due for a massive amount of them in the future. Sort of feels like the CW's Supernatural to me. They have quite a few fillers in shows like this that boast longer episode seasons such as 22-26 episodes. I suppose I shouldn't worry too much about the over-saturation of fillers, but it's a little difficult for me to avoid the worry train at times. I love shows that are heavy on story arcs with very few fillers. Although Ciro and crew have done a wonderful job making the fillers enjoyable, for me anyway. I guess they don't feel like fillers because in most of these one shot episodes, we tend to meet new characters like Pizzaface, Malachi, and Fungus Humungous. Plus, we're still seeing the effects of the mutagen rain throughout the season which is a great touch. This break from seriousness has me thinking we're in for some pretty dark stuff sooner rather than later. Feels like we're catching our breath, and that a hard rain's going to fall eventually.

Kanon, loved the point you made about Mikey fighting his favorite food. I kept thinking he'd say something dramatic like,"How did it come to this?! Oh pizza, my pizza!" Very glad Mikey isn't the overly dramatic type though. He has a way of making things dramatic and humorous at the same time. Feels like the other three turtles are a little too serious at times, and it's great there's a turtle like Mikey around to lighten things up now and then. I think he's also there to keep the others from going over the edge, so to speak.

[Wretched Reptile]

Kinda surprised at the frequent seething disdain for this one. I personally found it to be pretty brilliant overall and incredibly enjoyable to watch. The nods to Alien and Evil Dead were yet again all over the place and it made me grin from ear to ear. It's a pretty dark and severely warped episode when you really stop and think about everything going on in it, yet the humor also elevated it from going too far over the line.

It's kind of funny too when an expected "filler" episode was all about, well FILLER, as in Pizza Face's desire to fill himself up with the bodies of his would-be victims.

There's just so much deviant wit and subversive creativity in this episode. Yes, it's pulling from other stuff influentially and the plot devices are familiar and derivative to a degree, but I just found it so much fun to watch and the homages so appealing that I just didn't care, tbh. MUCH better than the LARP episode, which is to date the only installment to leave me severely underwhelmed. Fun little detours like this episode are not only essential to breaking up the main plotline and prevent it from getting stale and tired, they are absolutely welcomed in my book when done this bonkers and off-the-wall.

And more of punker-goth Irma is always a good thing.

[blindturtle02]

I hear ya, RR. Still can't believe they managed to create an episode about a pizza mutant who's bent on eating his victims. Reminds me of that old Sharks fruit snacks commercial. "You've got to eat them before... they eat you!" I bet the cast and crew had a blast while working on this one. Okay Playmates, I'm ready for that Pizzaface figure now. haha

[JTH]

Originally Posted by Metalwolf

This excuse for fillers isn't a good one. They could still watch the previous episodes that they missed on Itunes or Amazon, they aren't going to be 'lost' when they have the ample opportunity to play catch up.

Why would you use ITunes or Amazon as an example? Who would pay for episodes for a show they might not even enjoy in the end?

*Psst* *Whispers* You can say "stream site", we do know they're out there.

[Donatello19]

So was the whole thing actually a dream or not?

[blindturtle02]

Originally Posted by Donatello19

So was the whole thing actually a dream or not?

My money's on no. Pizzaface said everyone would return to their homes with no memory of the event, and we see him in Mikey's room at the end clearly denying that it was a dream. That could just be me, but I take his,"I dont'a think sooo," quite literally.

[JTH]

Originally Posted by blindturtle02

My money's on no. Pizzaface said everyone would return to their homes with no memory of the event, and we see him in Mikey's room at the end clearly denying that it was a dream. That could just be me, but I take his,"I dont'a think sooo," quite literally.

In the same perspective, I took Mikey's "It's like my worst nightmare come true." only to wake up from a nightmare at the end of the episode quite literally too.

Honestly, there really is no wrong answer. They left the door open for you to decide, and I felt that was intentional and quite clever.

[The Sports Warrior]

But how does he go from being knocked out at the pizza place to waking up in bed with an evil slice of pizza in his room with no one having any knowledge of how either of them got there!?

Actually there is something cool about the Turtles gathering a collection of relatively harmless mutants all around the lair for cameos, like Pizza Face slice, ICK and the jar of Timothy! (Are they ever gonna fix him!? He never even got a look in when the retro-mutagen was created!)

[BubblyShell22]

Yeah, I think it's the type of episode where you could either say it was a dream or not. But since the pizza was in Mikey's room and pretty much said it wasn't a dream, then it's not, and that's how I'm going to take it as it leaves the door for Pizza Face to come back like many other villains who have returned like Snakeweed. So that's my two cents on it.

Sports Warrior, if you remember, the Turtles, Splinter, and April were all hypnotized by the pizza as well, so they could have woken up themselves, heard Mikey's screams, and went to see what the problem was, though I'm not sure why April would be there. But whatever. That's the way I look at it.

[CyberCubed]

LOL, I counted 12 people in this thread said this episode was terrible.