The TMNT Mirage Continuity Timeline (complete?) - Page 14

*discordiatookie* · 02-05-2010, 07:34 PM

Paris Nocturne doesn't feel right under vol 4 to me. Reading it, I get the feeling that it should be before vol 4. However, a bit of exploration on the date references prove you to be right. In PN, Shadow's diary has the date April 2002. In vol 4, issue 3, it has the quote "This city -- understandably on edge since the events of last september -- is on the verge of panic." read by a newsreporter. Which, if refering to 9/11, means what's happening in issue 4, going by the snow, is happening either late 2001 or early 2002.

In all honesty, I actually had this all written out to say that PN is BEFORE vol 4, for definite, with said quotes as proof. Then I realised I was getting myself muddled - if it was winter 2002, which I thought it was, the newsreporter wouldn't be saying "last september", he'd be saying "The september before last" or "the events on 9/11" or something to that effect. D'oh!

Still, I think it don't feel right during vol 4. But I reckon you can take off the "possibly post vol 4" now.

*DrSpengler* · 02-05-2010, 08:19 PM

Okay so if I've got my dates straight, here...

TMNT (Vol. 4) #1 takes place in January of 2002.

"Paris Nocturne" takes place in April of 2002.

Alright. April would HAVE to fall in that six month gap during TMNT (Vol. 4) #5, so yeah, the "possibly post Vol. 4" can be dropped.

I'll deal with that right now.

pm5kfan212 · 02-06-2010, 10:38 AM

hey, what is "Muscle and Faith"? and do you have any more thoughts on the Flaming Carrot crossovers?

*DrSpengler* · 02-06-2010, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pm5kfan212

hey, what is "Muscle and Faith"?

"Muscle and Faith" was an Eastman-approved online graphic novel written and drawn by Jeff Bonivert. It was available to view Here for a limited time, but has since been taken down.

Personally, I didn't think it was very good, but Eastman greelit it, so eh.

Quote:

and do you have any more thoughts on the Flaming Carrot crossovers?

Yeah, its way too "out there". Both arcs were written by Bob Burden and follow the rules of the Flaming Carrot universe, which is ten times more ridiculous than even the weirdest canon TMNT stories.

Plus, the second crossover has the Turtles acting in cooperation with the US Government, which is just plain not-possible, at least in the Mirage continuity.

*ToTheNines* · 02-06-2010, 12:21 PM

I got another. I'll have to check, but I'm pretty sure that Tales 17 "Wrong Turn", is referenced in Tales 52 "Crystal at the Heart of the World".

I have no idea which one needs to be moved where, i'll leave that up to you lol.

And do you care about typos? I personally don't so I'd feel like a douche-bag for pointing them out lol. But if you do, let me know.

*DrSpengler* · 02-06-2010, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

I got another. I'll have to check, but I'm pretty sure that Tales 17 "Wrong Turn", is referenced in Tales 52 "Crystal at the Heart of the World".

I have no idea which one needs to be moved where, i'll leave that up to you lol.

"Wrong Turn" specifically takes place after Splinter's funeral, so it's gotta stay put.

But how was "Wrong Turn" referenced in "Crystal at the Heart of the World", again? I don't recall, myself.

Quote:

And do you care about typos? I personally don't so I'd feel like a douche-bag for pointing them out lol. But if you do, let me know.

Type-os in my reviews? Not so much, unless they're really embarassing or there's a whole lot of em (I usually spell and error check pretty well).

But if there's one in the timeline, lemme know. I want that to be pristine.

*ToTheNines* · 02-06-2010, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

"Wrong Turn" specifically takes place after Splinter's funeral, so it's gotta stay put.

But how was "Wrong Turn" referenced in "Crystal at the Heart of the World", again? I don't recall, myself.

I just re-read 5 minutes ago. They all use the gridshift device to teleport to Moo Mesa, and they talk about how it almost got them killed in "Wrong Turn", even comes with an editors note. And, obviously, where ever you move 52, 58 has to go with it.

Just got another one (kinda). I think you can remove the "possibly post-volume 4" tag from the "Blue Hole". The date in the story is March 2002, so it can probably stay put or be moved by another issue with a corresponding date.

I don't have "Soul Survivor", but I racked my krang over "Sins of the past" and couldn't find anything dictating wether it takes place after volume 4 or during.

Quote:

But if there's one in the timeline, lemme know. I want that to be pristine.

I thought I had a few... but all I can find right now is you have Tales 27 as "White Horse" instead of "White Horses". No biggie, but I figured you like to fix it. Also, while you spelled it right, Mirage spelled Michelangelo as Michaelangelo back in the day, so for the Christmas special titles, they should be mis-spelled lol

*ToTheNines* · 02-06-2010, 01:53 PM

Mod, please delete.

*DrSpengler* · 02-06-2010, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

I just re-read 5 minutes ago. They all use the gridshift device to teleport to Moo Mesa, and they talk about how it almost got them killed in "Wrong Turn", even comes with an editors note. And, obviously, where ever you move 52, 58 has to go with it.

Cool. I bumped the two Moo Mesa stories down to just after "Wrong Turn".

Quote:

Just got another one (kinda). I think you can remove the "possibly post-volume 4" tag from the "Blue Hole". The date in the story is March 2002, so it can probably stay put or be moved by another issue with a corresponding date.

Since "Paris Nocturne" is April of 2002, I moved "Blue Hole" to just before that story.

Quote:

I don't have "Soul Survivor", but I racked my krang over "Sins of the past" and couldn't find anything dictating wether it takes place after volume 4 or during.

I decided to just eliminate the "possibly post Vol. 4" notes entirely. No real reason to have them, anymore, at least not now that the 6-month gap has been thinned out so much (which makes me happy, as I hated seeing so many stories shoved in there).

Quote:

I thought I had a few... but all I can find right now is you have Tales 27 as "White Horse" instead of "White Horses". No biggie, but I figured you like to fix it. Also, while you spelled it right, Mirage spelled Michelangelo as Michaelangelo back in the day, so for the Christmas special titles, they should be mis-spelled lol

Cool, fixed "White Horses". Been meaning to go through and fix the source issues for several of the back-up strips that I just lazily listed as "Shell Shock" even though they were first printed in Gobbledygook or a 2nd printing or whatever (also, I'll add printing notations, too).

Gotta keep consistent, after all.

EDIT: Okay, went through and did that.

*discordiatookie* · 02-06-2010, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

...but I racked my krang over...

This made me actually laugh out loud.

*ToTheNines* · 02-06-2010, 07:32 PM

Sorry to keep bugging you with small sh*t Doc, but I noticed that some A.C. Farley issues are in red (his 2 volume 1 books), while "Crack in a Hard Heart" is not. I personally consider him a Mirage guy, and not a guest. I guess "Lost Legends" should be red since it was written by Paul Jenkins, but "Men of Shadow" was all A.C.

Quote:

Originally Posted by discordiatookie

This made me actually laugh out loud.

Ha, glad you liked it.

*DrSpengler* · 02-07-2010, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Sorry to keep bugging you with small sh*t Doc, but I noticed that some A.C. Farley issues are in red (his 2 volume 1 books), while "Crack in a Hard Heart" is not. I personally consider him a Mirage guy, and not a guest. I guess "Lost Legends" should be red since it was written by Paul Jenkins, but "Men of Shadow" was all A.C.

That's the thing, though. Laird's said that with the exception of "Sons of the Silent Age" and "Dreams of Stone", everything between TMNT Vol. 1 #21 and #45 is of questionable canon status.

That includes "The River", which was referenced in "Sons of the Silent Age", and "Men of Shadow", which was done by AC Farley, a Mirage in-houser.

"Men of Shadow" is also somewhat contradicted by "Darkness Weaves", where Raph acts like he's encountering vampires for the very first time in his life.

The #21-45 span of issues is one of those weird little areas where its story content vs. Laird's say-so ("The River") or even Laird's say-so vs. Laird's say-so ("Men of Shadow").

Hence the red coloring.

Billbeaux · 02-07-2010, 09:07 AM

This one is more a personal hangup than a timeline nitpick, but I find it difficult to accept "Body Count" into my own little idealized version of the canon. Maybe it's just me, but I have a tough time reconciling the Casey of "Shades of Grey"/"C@W" who plunged headlong into a self-destructive downward spiral after accidentally killing a single punk with the Casey of "BC" who guns down Lord knows how many goons.

*DrSpengler* · 02-07-2010, 09:40 AM

Well, I don't think Casey guns anyone down in "Bodycount". I recall him spending the whole series saying "I hate guns" (while Raph goes gun crazy). I can't recall if Casey explicitly *kills* anyone in that story, though.

I'm not very fond of "Bodycount", personally, but I try not to let my personal feelings toward a story effect its inclusion.

"Bodycount" was written by Eastman and, at least initially, intended to be published by Mirage. Likewise, Eastman also wrote or co-wrote stories like "Fun with Guns" (where Casey thinks guns are cool as opposed to hating them) and the two you mentioned, "Shades of Grey" and "City at War". So I'd like to think the franchise creator knew what he was doing when he wrote it, even if it sorta sticks out awkwardly.

Of course, Eastman has admitted that he wrote "Bodycount" to be nothing more than a 4-issue running John Woo-style gunfight, plot and characterization be damned, so who knows what was going through his head at the time.

Billbeaux · 02-07-2010, 10:07 AM

Hmm...my memory must be fuzzier than I thought. I've no doubt you're right, and I'll have to give that one a second look when I get the chance (I've only read it once...like you, it wasn't really my cup of tea).

If that's the case, then the only other instance in which Casey killed another person (correct me if I'm wrong) is when he took out some of the DARPA guards in vol. 2, which he has no memory of doing. Sound about right?

*ToTheNines* · 02-07-2010, 01:30 PM

I personally don't consider it canon. I know Eastman wrote it, but I look at it as a one shot, Kevin just having some fun. Not that its inclusion here is glaring, I just don't care about it.

*CyberCubed* · 02-07-2010, 01:39 PM

In Bodycount, Casey also kisses Midnight (the woman), in the story at the end.

So much for Casey being loyal to April, huh? lol.

Eh, I look at most of the specials as being "for fun," same with a lot of the guest writers of Volume 1. But the good thing is, you can count stuff like "Souls Winter," and the zany issues as part of an "alternate universe," where it fits in.

Hey, if Mirage accepts the multi-verse, why can't Souls Winter be canon just in an alternate reality? Is there a difference?

***First of Two Latin Kings*** · 02-07-2010, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Hey, if Mirage accepts the multi-verse, why can't Souls Winter be canon just in an alternate reality? Is there a difference?

It can be, but generally when people think of "canonicity," they think of Turtle Prime.

I see your point though. Not that what Mirage thinks really matters anymore.

*ToTheNines* · 02-07-2010, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

In Bodycount, Casey also kisses Midnight (the woman), in the story at the end.

So much for Casey being loyal to April, huh? lol.

Eh, I look at most of the specials as being "for fun," same with a lot of the guest writers of Volume 1. But the good thing is, you can count stuff like "Souls Winter," and the zany issues as part of an "alternate universe," where it fits in.

Hey, if Mirage accepts the multi-verse, why can't Souls Winter be canon just in an alternate reality? Is there a difference?

According to this time-line, Bodycount was way before Casey and April hooked up, or even met for that matter.

And "Souls" is an alternate universe... which is exactly why it can't be canon. I mean, the OT is an alternate universe too, but it's not Mirage canon. Same with the movies, Archie etc.

*DrSpengler* · 02-07-2010, 06:33 PM

Hving been a major contributor to the TFWiki.net for four years now, I sort of ascribe to their idea that "EVERYTHING is canon, but not everything is in the same continuity".

So yeah, "Souls Winter" is canon, but canon to its own micro-continuity alongisde the shorts that Zuli also drew taking place in that universe.

It's just not in the same continuity as the primary Mirage stuff.

And yeah, I put "Bodycount" before TMNT #10 expressly for the reason that it's before Casey met April, allowing him to have a romantic encounter with whatshername.

02-05-2010, 07:34 PM	#261
discordiatookie facehugger Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Aberdeen, Scotland Posts: 2,817	Paris Nocturne doesn't feel right under vol 4 to me. Reading it, I get the feeling that it should be before vol 4. However, a bit of exploration on the date references prove you to be right. In PN, Shadow's diary has the date April 2002. In vol 4, issue 3, it has the quote "This city -- understandably on edge since the events of last september -- is on the verge of panic." read by a newsreporter. Which, if refering to 9/11, means what's happening in issue 4, going by the snow, is happening either late 2001 or early 2002. In all honesty, I actually had this all written out to say that PN is BEFORE vol 4, for definite, with said quotes as proof. Then I realised I was getting myself muddled - if it was winter 2002, which I thought it was, the newsreporter wouldn't be saying "last september", he'd be saying "The september before last" or "the events on 9/11" or something to that effect. D'oh! Still, I think it don't feel right during vol 4. But I reckon you can take off the "possibly post vol 4" now. __________________ Oh Discordia! Charyou Tree! Come, Reap! Don't tell us to grow up and out of it I got my cloak and dagger in a bar room brawl You actually trying to read this tiny text? Damn, you're dedicated! This is all just for effect you know... original TMNT art collection

02-05-2010, 08:19 PM	#262
DrSpengler Foot Elite Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 4,830	Okay so if I've got my dates straight, here... TMNT (Vol. 4) #1 takes place in January of 2002. "Paris Nocturne" takes place in April of 2002. Alright. April would HAVE to fall in that six month gap during TMNT (Vol. 4) #5, so yeah, the "possibly post Vol. 4" can be dropped. I'll deal with that right now.

02-06-2010, 10:38 AM	#263
pm5kfan212 Thug Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Chesapeake,VA Posts: 65	hey, what is "Muscle and Faith"? and do you have any more thoughts on the Flaming Carrot crossovers?

02-06-2010, 12:21 PM	#265
ToTheNines [sic] Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 15,098	I got another. I'll have to check, but I'm pretty sure that Tales 17 "Wrong Turn", is referenced in Tales 52 "Crystal at the Heart of the World". I have no idea which one needs to be moved where, i'll leave that up to you lol. And do you care about typos? I personally don't so I'd feel like a douche-bag for pointing them out lol. But if you do, let me know.

02-06-2010, 01:53 PM	#268
ToTheNines [sic] Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 15,098	Mod, please delete.

02-07-2010, 09:07 AM	#273
Billbeaux Foot Soldier Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Flyover Country Posts: 165	This one is more a personal hangup than a timeline nitpick, but I find it difficult to accept "Body Count" into my own little idealized version of the canon. Maybe it's just me, but I have a tough time reconciling the Casey of "Shades of Grey"/"C@W" who plunged headlong into a self-destructive downward spiral after accidentally killing a single punk with the Casey of "BC" who guns down Lord knows how many goons.

02-07-2010, 09:40 AM	#274
DrSpengler Foot Elite Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 4,830	Well, I don't think Casey guns anyone down in "Bodycount". I recall him spending the whole series saying "I hate guns" (while Raph goes gun crazy). I can't recall if Casey explicitly kills anyone in that story, though. I'm not very fond of "Bodycount", personally, but I try not to let my personal feelings toward a story effect its inclusion. "Bodycount" was written by Eastman and, at least initially, intended to be published by Mirage. Likewise, Eastman also wrote or co-wrote stories like "Fun with Guns" (where Casey thinks guns are cool as opposed to hating them) and the two you mentioned, "Shades of Grey" and "City at War". So I'd like to think the franchise creator knew what he was doing when he wrote it, even if it sorta sticks out awkwardly. Of course, Eastman has admitted that he wrote "Bodycount" to be nothing more than a 4-issue running John Woo-style gunfight, plot and characterization be damned, so who knows what was going through his head at the time.

02-07-2010, 10:07 AM	#275
Billbeaux Foot Soldier Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Flyover Country Posts: 165	Hmm...my memory must be fuzzier than I thought. I've no doubt you're right, and I'll have to give that one a second look when I get the chance (I've only read it once...like you, it wasn't really my cup of tea). If that's the case, then the only other instance in which Casey killed another person (correct me if I'm wrong) is when he took out some of the DARPA guards in vol. 2, which he has no memory of doing. Sound about right?

02-07-2010, 01:30 PM	#276
ToTheNines [sic] Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 15,098	I personally don't consider it canon. I know Eastman wrote it, but I look at it as a one shot, Kevin just having some fun. Not that its inclusion here is glaring, I just don't care about it.

02-07-2010, 01:39 PM	#277
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 41,031	In Bodycount, Casey also kisses Midnight (the woman), in the story at the end. So much for Casey being loyal to April, huh? lol. Eh, I look at most of the specials as being "for fun," same with a lot of the guest writers of Volume 1. But the good thing is, you can count stuff like "Souls Winter," and the zany issues as part of an "alternate universe," where it fits in. Hey, if Mirage accepts the multi-verse, why can't Souls Winter be canon just in an alternate reality? Is there a difference?

02-07-2010, 06:33 PM	#280
DrSpengler Foot Elite Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 4,830	Hving been a major contributor to the TFWiki.net for four years now, I sort of ascribe to their idea that "EVERYTHING is canon, but not everything is in the same continuity". So yeah, "Souls Winter" is canon, but canon to its own micro-continuity alongisde the shorts that Zuli also drew taking place in that universe. It's just not in the same continuity as the primary Mirage stuff. And yeah, I put "Bodycount" before TMNT #10 expressly for the reason that it's before Casey met April, allowing him to have a romantic encounter with whatshername.