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Old 06-05-2021, 02:45 PM   #741
IndigoErth
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The one thing I find interesting is Leo writing down his brothers names with a subject like Mikey with drama or Raph with math. Does this mean that those subjects are their favorites? or the subjects they struggle in the most?
I assumed they were probably just the subjects his brothers were siting in while he was in science class, and Donnie's whereabouts unknown.

Yeah, also thought the writing would seem a bit too messy for Leo... although that's hard to fake so that's just the penmanship of Rogen himself (or whoever did this). lol


The drawing yelling "pay attention!" actually kinda looks more like Bishop with the short hair and what look to be sunglasses rather than regular glasses.
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Old 06-05-2021, 02:52 PM   #742
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Either way, I'd have to say that even that goofy version of Batman, whether from the comics or show, was still a reinvention of Bob Kane's Batman, which was quite different from that era.
The key thing to remember is that specific "reinvention" away from the original source material was more or less mandated by the United States government after comic books were accused of turning kids into juvenile delinquents. Overnight super-hero comics were faced with the dilemma of "Start pandering to preschoolers OR you won't be allowed to stay in print."

So it's not like such "reinvention" was an organic shift based on consumer demand; it was quite literally forced.

It's also worth noting that some of the things people get irrationally angry about with characters like Batman and Superman - such as the "No-Kill Rule" and the idea that above all they MUST always be presented in a way that's appropriate for young children - came from that same mandate. Before "Seduction of the Innocent" and all the courtroom ballyhoo, you had stuff like Batman shooting bad guys and Superman throwing villains in front of their own bullets, and nobody cried foul. Not until that Wertham idiot came along screaming about how comics were turning America's youth into hoodlums.

So yeah, it's not like the "reinvention" of super-hero comics into strictly-kiddie fare was ever a populist decision in the first place, it was a pragmatic reaction to government overreach. So it's kind of a dubious example to cite.

Credit must be given for how the characters and concepts managed to adapt and survive for so long despite the creative handcuffs, but it would simply be false to say "Batman and Superman became kiddie cartoons specifically because people asked for that." That's not at all what happened.
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Old 06-05-2021, 05:17 PM   #743
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I would argue that the TMNT franchise has been ruined by bad adaptions. The franchise itself is not in a good place right now; a huge commercial flop like Out Of The Shadows followed by a flop animated series has put a lot of taint on the brand.

If the franchise was in a healthy place I have little doubt we'd be getting another live action movie. For a franchise which has had a string of live action movies to be reduced to a cgi animated movie shows that Paramount has very little faith in the brand. You could argue that we're lucky to be getting anything at all - but if what we do get is going to taint the brand even further then it shouldn't be done. It likely wouldn't kill the franchise completely but it would significantly damage it even more than it has been.

Comparisons to Batman are a little silly. No matter how Batman has been altered he's still always been Bruce Wayne who as a child saw his parents murdered, raised by his family butler Alfred he trained to become an expert detective and fighter and donned a bat themed costume to fight crime in Gotham City. It's always been the same. The fact that he's so consistent is a large part of the reason he's been so consistently successful.

Frankly TMNT has already been messed with far too much for my liking and that's part of the reason why people find the franchise so confusing and now it seems they want to change it again into something so fundamentally alters the characters. If it's true it's a disaster waiting to happen.
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Old 06-05-2021, 05:28 PM   #744
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^^^On this, we agree.
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Old 06-05-2021, 10:27 PM   #745
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At this point it is a different story, not TMNT.
Words have meaning. Ideas have meaning.
And they are not interchangeable.

If you want to see something like this, why not to propose some sort of spinoff? TMNT'verse has plenty of characters that can fit the bill for your scenario. and closer to this mindset, with every new iteration of the franchise.
That’s a fair alternative. It’s surprising there’s never been a fully functioning TMNT spinoff of any kind.

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All of your examples are hilariously bad, because, none of them are made due to the "fan demands", but, because, corporations are trying to milk famous properties, due to their creative impotency.

Also, I am not sure, how the **** all of this didn't damaged their respective franchises. TMNT was always a shadow of its 90s glory, past Fred Wolf days, but others like Terminator and Ghostbusters went from beloved series to "just shot them in the head and stop their suffering, please!".

When corporations produces new **** movies solely to capitalize on the famous name it is very definition of the zombie franchise.
My examples show that at the very least they only do momentary damage. Their time/resources from start to finish if they end up failing to meet expectations.

Calling them Zombie Franchises is an exaggeration. Plenty of things come and go with various results. Like I said nothing exists in a constant state of peak performance. Things level out.

Also important to keep in mind each franchise has it’s own circumstances. It’s easy to say “Hollywood sucks” but each thing is where it is for different reasons and sometimes needs to work itself out.

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Then again, some people do seem to complain if they don't get the same exact thing over and over. To me, at some point that starts to border on parody. If you want the original thing so bad, go appreciate it. On the contrary, when I love source material, I don't really need to see it replicated. I feel like I have it already. Let's take the concept and see if we can try something new with it now. Offen you get great results. That's how I think.
Let alone when taking something from one medium and translating it to another. Way too many complications there.
Ya my original point was it should be ok to try a different take because we’re so far in. If changing the source material was done in the 90s movie that’s too soon. FW was the only other adaptation.
———

The current state of TMNT is nothing special but everything goes through slumps, hiatus’s or peaks and valleys. This is normal. It should not be defined as zombie or milking a brand.
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Old 06-06-2021, 12:57 AM   #746
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The funny thing is that for the average tmnt fan the FW cartoon IS the source material while the Mirage comics is just a failed "early attempt".
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Old 06-06-2021, 10:05 AM   #747
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Comparisons to Batman are a little silly. No matter how Batman has been altered he's still always been Bruce Wayne who as a child saw his parents murdered, raised by his family butler Alfred he trained to become an expert detective and fighter and donned a bat themed costume to fight crime in Gotham City. It's always been the same. The fact that he's so consistent is a large part of the reason he's been so consistently successful.
Comparisons to Batman are pretty appropriate. You have legions of fans who believe that either the character should kill or shouldn't, which is pretty fundamental when you think about it.

Then you have the turtles who go from being raised as assassins to just...being raised, yet both versions have worked before.

But again, I'm not saying it's the same as turning the turtles into humans. It's easy too early to say that. It will probably veer pretty far off the source material and become unrecognizable to it, if I'm a betting man.

Leo, that's true about censorship & Batman comics, but the the question wasn't "what brought Batman comics to the point?", the point was whether or not Batman survived being turned into something he arguably wasn't.

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Old 06-06-2021, 11:12 AM   #748
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The funny thing is that for the average tmnt fan the FW cartoon IS the source material while the Mirage comics is just a failed "early attempt".
Some fans, but even more-so the casual viewer who watched that show as a kid and might remember it fondly, but was never a favorite thing and may have no clue Mirage even existed before it. And sadly, they outnumber us...

It would be nice if some of those people could be shown through a good modern film and/or series that there is more to it and get them interested in finding out what else exists, and maybe help draw TMNT back a bit to that particular side of itself, instead of leaving people always expecting dumb kid stuff.


Saw a question the other day elsewhere online asking of TMNT comics are childish. Which of course sounds absurd to anyone with even a least a little knowledge. I can't even think of what might actually be childish outside of maybe issues related to Nick's shows. But people just assume these things, which is sad.

Wish the people who grew up with the 2003 series were a bigger, louder force of nostalgia that the makers of these things could see as a viable target. That at least would get it going in a better direction.

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Old 06-06-2021, 04:06 PM   #749
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I'd been giving it a lot of thought what I feel constitutes a proper adaptation of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and I've come to this conclusion:

As long as the story includes Leonardo, Donatello, Raphael and Michelangelo with their signature color coded bandanas and weapons, being raised and trained by Splinter, befriended by April 'O Neil and on a never ending battle against Shredder and his forces, that's all that truly matters in my personal opinion. You can do whatever you like with the backstory and throw in whatever supporting cast you want, just so long as it makes for a good compelling story. The Archie comics I loved as a kid did that extremely well back in the day, and I often wish people would give them more credit for that. Then again I understand why some people didn't care much for that iteration, but to each their own.

Whatever Seth Rogen's team comes up with for the next film, it will either be a hit and people will love it, or it'll flop just like the Michael Bay nonsense that came prior. Until then, we'll all just have to wait with baited breath.
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Old 06-06-2021, 04:31 PM   #750
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Originally Posted by IndigoErth View Post
Some fans, but even more-so the casual viewer who watched that show as a kid and might remember it fondly, but was never a favorite thing and may have no clue Mirage even existed before it. And sadly, they outnumber us...

It would be nice if some of those people could be shown through a good modern film and/or series that there is more to it and get them interested in finding out what else exists, and maybe help draw TMNT back a bit to that particular side of itself, instead of leaving people always expecting dumb kid stuff.


Saw a question the other day elsewhere online asking of TMNT comics are childish. Which of course sounds absurd to anyone with even a least a little knowledge. I can't even think of what might actually be childish outside of maybe issues related to Nick's shows. But people just assume these things, which is sad.

Wish the people who grew up with the 2003 series were a bigger, louder force of nostalgia that the makers of these things could see as a viable target. That at least would get it going in a better direction.
Considering even FW fans enjoyed the 1990 film, I can't see why they wouldn't enjoy another Mirage style film. If they do, that would be very ironic and confusing.

Regarding 2k3 fans, I'm not sure how much Viacom/Nickelodeon will listen to them sadly. I guess we could try but it usually never works out.
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Old 06-07-2021, 12:05 PM   #751
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I might be overreaching, but I found it interesting that Kevin never re-tweeted Seth Rogen's tweet. Seems like something he might do based on his twitter activity in the past, but then again he isn't even promoting the release of Last Ronin issues, so maybe it's random.
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