Official Episode Discussion S4 Ep 26: Owari

[Storm Eagle]

Originally Posted by Vicky82

I was surprised that Baxter wanted to stay as a mutated fly. I wonder if this his last appearance or he's becoming a cyborg next season.

I know Fishface isn't dead because remember that Instagram video Gwendolin Yeo posted From The Forgotten Swordsman over a year ago, you can hear Christian Lanz in the background saying to Raph about having a rematch.

If Baxter wanted to stay a mutant fly, then I don't feel so bad about him getting mutated anymore. I knew that he got demutated from seeing the Korean dub of the episode. I was happy about that, but I figured that he might get mutated again in the next season. So since you say that he wanted to stay a fly, I get the feeling that should he be involved in the next season, he'd have gotten used to being human again, and will get mutated again, but wouldn't want to.

Also, that clip from Gwendolin Yeo is news to me as well.

[Redworld96]

Originally Posted by NinjaMan

Where can I see this with English?

We can't share links here. Go to your inbox on the forum

[evan2000]

Finally got to watch this in English thanks to Redworld96

The first minute or so (during Splinter's funeral) was really bitter to watch no dialogs, just showing everyone's sad faces with hardly any movements

It was fitting to see several of Splinter's most treasured personal belongings placed in front of his tombstone. It was also a nice touch to have his silhouette carved at the top of it.

Meanwhile it was cute to see Chompy clinging on Slash's shoulder; I guess Slash was cool with Raphael's new pet replacing himself

The conversation between Leonardo and spiritual Splinter sort of implied that Splinter already expected this to happen and therefore made preparations in advance. Who knows what form of meditations he had been exercising prior to this, such that he could continue to "interact" with his sons after his death.

The rest of the episode is probably the most brutal TMNT ever in animation form (admittedly we've seen worse in the comics though)! Basically they weren't pulling any stops in their quest to kill Shredder until they succeeded.

The ending was pretty rushed and it was weird seeing them ditch the "dark" gear so quickly and revert to their usual outfit. I guess the only thing that would stay permanent after this is Casey's new mask, since the old one was broken.

To be fair, I'd consider Requiem/Owari as a 2-parter, and not two standalone episodes, especially when comparing with previous season finales. I think it is the best finale hands down, closely followed by Season 2's The Invasion. I would have rated Season 3's Annihilation: Earth higher if not because I was spoiled by the novel adaptation prior to watching it, as well as the stupid "awesome" dialog by Casey right at the bummer ending! That being said, I actually consider Season 1's Showdown pretty underrated; it was a real eye-opener and extremely intense the first time I watched it, unfortunately many of the fresh elements introduced by it got stale real quick in Season 2 and beyond, as the threat level of the Technodrome and Kraang Prime got downplayed in favour of newer, bigger threats down the road. However, during the first time watching it, I was honestly blown away

Welp, can't wait for Season 5 to begin (which I assume has to be real soon, or the upcoming DVD release would "leak" the first 4 eps before being aired on TV)

[neatoman]

"Leo, you must go to the Dagobah System!"

Edit: Let's just add to this.

"You told me Hamato Yoshi murdered my mother"

"Your mother... was seduced by the Hamato Yoshi. He ceased to be my brother and I wouldn't have killed her if it wasn't for that. When that happened, he was to blame and your mother was destroyed. So, what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."

"You're a dick for not telling me this in the first place, you know that right?"

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Storm Eagle

So since you say that he wanted to stay a fly, I get the feeling that should he be involved in the next season, he'd have gotten used to being human again, and will get mutated again, but wouldn't want to.

I seriously doubt they're going to mutate Baxter again if they de-mutated him to a human. The writers are either done with him or he'll go the cyborg route.

[GoldMutant]

Personally don't understand the hype of last episode and this one.

I will admit, the action was excellent; while not as good as Requiem to me, it certainly delivered. Each Turtle got one individual moment this episode, Raphael nearly killing Fishface, Michelangelo curing Baxter Stockman (more on that later), Leonardo killing Shredder (as expected) and Donnie... I'm not sure if he stood out despite the trap with Bebop and Rocksteady. I wouldn't say it's the series' best action, but it certainly was the most brutal in terms of the sequences.

I also enjoyed the opening sequence at the farmhouse. Minimal dialogue, just facial reactions until Leo goes to meditate, something I honestly wish was done more in the franchise itself cartoon wise. Then Leo talking to Splinter's spirit... while not that emotional for me due to the shock value being repetitious, I have to admit the farmhouse was genuinely moving this time. Seth Green has come into his own as Leonardo; while it's obviously him with his natural voice, he certainly shined this time as did Kevin Michael Richardson.

Little nods also like the introduction of Casey's signature hockey mask, the Outtie 5000 line, and the black and white still of Leo vs SS were very good as well.

However, though an action oriented episode, I almost feel not enough time was given in the emotional department. It's a criticism of not only this episode, but Requiem as well. Something felt missing for me due to Leo being the only one to fully reflect on Splinter's death this episode. Even with their father-son/teacher-student relationship being present, it just felt weird. You could make an argument for Mikey with the chains in the final fight, but I'd rather wait on season 5 before making that judgment call.

A personal gripe of this episode for me is Baxter Stockman. He's my favorite character in the franchise, a scapegoat who just doesn't catch a break but shines in small doses. I am happy that he was cured here as the fly. While synonymous with him after Fred Wolf besides being a cyborg, I certainly didn't like him saying he liked being a fly. Again, I understand you can argue he was woozy after being cured but I don't see how it helped Baxter at all, especially because when he was mutated in Lonely Mutation, he claimed he was a freak. It feels off putting for him to want to remain a fly, it's like I missed an episode when he hasn't had primary focus at all in season 3 and only in The Insecta Trifecta did he get the spotlight one last time.

Even though it's great this was a finale that lacked Kraang involvement and an invasion, Owari doesn't fully appeal to me. I see why a lot of you like it, but it's personally not my cup of tea. If it aired back to back with Requiem I'd assume the impact would be greater. The action may have been eye candy, but I wish more was done. Easily among the best of the season.... which unfortunately is not saying much. 8 out of 10.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I seriously doubt they're going to mutate Baxter again if they de-mutated him to a human. The writers are either done with him or he'll go the cyborg route.

I was thrown off guard a bit by his desire to remain a fly though, it's kind of weird that he actually liked it. But yeah sure, they're probably either going the cyborg route or no exotic route at all.

Hun: Stockman, you tried to double cross me, prepare for punishment!
Stockman: Oh! Are you going to mutate me!?
Hun: What? No! I'm just going tear your eye out, why would I waste a rare alien resource on punishment?
Stockman: Please mutate me!
Hun: No! Just for that, your arm is coming off as well!
Stockman: I beg of you, please turn me back into a fly!
Hun: ... Do you have any idea how few organs you need to live? It's a lot fewer than you'd think...

[Fang Wolf]

How could Leo kill Shredder? Were stab Leo Shredder? Neck or heart?
Because Karai could not even hurt him in heart? Or anyone else could even hurt him.

And why retro-mutagenic does not work on Shredder?

[Storm Eagle]

Originally Posted by Fang Wolf

And why retro-mutagenic does not work on Shredder?[/I]

Probably because the amount they used wasn't enough. If they still had the one that Michelangelo used on Baxter, it might have been enough.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by Fang Wolf

How could Leo kill Shredder? Were stab Leo Shredder? Neck or heart?
Because Karai could not even hurt him in heart? Or anyone else could even hurt him.

And why retro-mutagenic does not work on Shredder?

Question 1: they implied the Shredder was decapitated by Leo.

Question 2: Shredder has been taking the mutagen in multiple doses and stockman refined the retromutagen to stabilize the mutagen in the Shredders blood stream. So that likely changed up the chemical composition
Thus making the retromutagen useless.

[TLP]

Originally Posted by Fang Wolf

[I]How could Leo kill Shredder? Were stab Leo Shredder? Neck or heart?
Because Karai could not even hurt him in heart? Or anyone else could even hurt him.

I was just about to ask that.

Shredder's death was so unconvincing and very unsatisfying, especially if we're not even going to get an explanation as to how Leo's blade was able to pierce Shredder but Karai's couldn't.
Also, he deserved an onscreen death. Regardless if it is a kid show, they could have done clever angles with the helmet and Shredder's lifeless body kneeling over without showing the headless stump.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by Vicky82

Just watched it and it got me emotional at the beginning and at the end.

It was brilliant but it was too quick though, the Shredder fight should have been bit more longer.

I wonder how long Karai was unconscious for because I was surprised she found out when the Turtles visited her in the hospital. It must have taken a few days to get everyone at the Farmhouse and prepare Splinters burial and make that tombstone.

I was surprised that Baxter wanted to stay as a mutated fly. I wonder if this his last appearance or he's becoming a cyborg next season.

I agree, both Requiem and Owari should both have been 2 hour specials to really drive home the drama of the situation.

For Karai, she did say she had a dream that told her that Splinter was gone. And the Turtles just confirm that yes that was the case.

As for Baxter, yeah it's a bit shocking he wanted to stay a fly since in Lonely Mutation he was so desperate to return human that he was willing to dump April in mutagen with the intent of merging her DNA with his. Or quite possibly murder Donatello in order to get the retromutagen from him.

And we also see him attempting to make retromutagen for himself at least once. My guess it's because Shredder has been relying on him so much and he's come to see how useful his mutation is that he has pretty much accepted his mutated form.

I think we might see him again, we don't know if he survived the fire since the last we see of him was when Mikey knocks him unconscious. Perhaps he does wake up and escape before the fire guts the manse. Casey does mention that Tigerclaw is still out there. I mean even though Fishfaces breathing apparatus was taken away, he was still close enough to the water to crawl back in once the Turtles weren't paying him any attention.


From the look of things the villain take out is sort of following the Vision Quest thing. During Vision Quest the order was:

Mikey vs. Rahzar
Raph vs. Fishface
Donnie vs. Tiger Claw
and Leo vs. Shredder

Rahzar has been taken out by Leatherhead, who is a friend of Mikey. It is possible that Rahzar could return since there isn't any official confirmation that he is dead. The guy was run over by a subway train and crushed against a wall by a dumpster and survived. So we may not have seen the last of him yet.

Raph has taken out Fishface and according to that instagram post, Vicky it looks like they are having a rematch. So Raph will likely make sashimi out of him.

Leo has taken out the Shredder and showing his brothers the Shredder's mask was confirmation that he is dead.


That means perhaps Donnie will be the one who defeats Tiger Claw. Which would be fitting since Donnie was the only turtle never encountered initially. And what times he has actually encountered all four Turtles, he's pretty much mentally pegged Donnie as a weaker fighter. The only turtle Tiger Claw targets regularly is Leo since he's the leader and most skilled of the group.

Also during vision quest, Tiger Claw was the only defeated enemy that had the more ambiguous death scene while everyone else was killed off on screen.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by TLP

I was just about to ask that.

Shredder's death was so unconvincing and very unsatisfying, especially if we're not even going to get an explanation as to how Leo's blade was able to pierce Shredder but Karai's couldn't.
Also, he deserved an onscreen death. Regardless if it is a kid show, they could have done clever angles with the helmet and Shredder's lifeless body kneeling over without showing the headless stump.

He did get an on-screen death. The moment you see Leo slice him in the air is when he died.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

He did get an on-screen death. The moment you see Leo slice him in the air is when he died.

The only thing that would have made it more convincing was seeing a line across the Shredder's neck.

[Vicky82]

A thought came to me while I was watching the UK airing.

I wonder if Bebop and Rocksteady will want to get revenge on Donnie for turning the weapons against them 'cough' issue 44 'cough'.

[ToTheNines]

I can't imagine Zeck and Steranko being that vicious.

[Vicky82]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

I can't imagine Zeck and Steranko being that vicious.

Yeah I can't actually but they could still really hurt him.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by Vicky82

Yeah I can't actually but they could still really hurt him.

Fishface I can see being on his own, since we have seen him act alone some times.

Same with Rahzar, he'd be wanting to avenge the Shredder.

Bebop and Rocksteady I can see maybe being with Tiger Claw all five hench men are influenced by Kravoxus. And Donnie ends up getting the issue 44 treatment because of that.

Then again, I can see Don Vizioso being mutated into Titanus. So that way he goes from being a morbidly rotund human who sees mutants as garbage, to a morbidly rotund Mutant who feels humans are truly the scum of the Earth. But he still wants to capture and kill off the Turtles and the Mutanimals as an example of what happens to human sympathizers. The remnants of the Shredder's hench mutants (minus Tiger Claw) join up with him, simply because they see benefits in doing so particularly since Shredder had said that Fishface had all of the hispanic gangs on his side, and also episode debuting Mondo Geko, it was mentioned that Fishface was also gathering mutation orphans and other unfortunates who had become mutants. And Rocksteady had ties to the Russian Mafia. So that's how the issue 44 events take place.

It wouldn't be blood like the event though, what might happen is we see Donnie or someone getting held down and the hammer falling. Followed by a close up of still Donnie's face before it the shot shatters. Much like Leo's had been when he was struck down by the Shredder during the invasion.

[Redworld96]

We know from the Toy Fair that Bebop and Rocksteady from the 80' cartoons will come to the 2k12 universe. Maybe it means that B&R from 2k12 died because of Donnie in this episode?

[Dust]

Originally Posted by Redworld96

We know from the Toy Fair that Bebop and Rocksteady from the 80' cartoons will come to the 2k12 universe. Maybe it means that B&R from 2k12 died because of Donnie in this episode?

Bebop and Rocksteady from the Nick universe are also gonna be in that Bebop and Rocksteady arc or whatever it's gonna be due to official artwork depicting them as being there. They're not dead.