As of today, how divisive is the TMNT fandom compared to others?

*Prowler* · 12-14-2023, 06:21 PM

I know a thread similar to this one was made nearly a decade ago or so, but that was 9 years ago or so, and things can change a lot in such timespan.

I think it's safe to say that the TMNT fandom is VERY divisive and has been so for a very long time. Normally you'd point the finger to the Fred Wolf series for being so different from the source material of Mirage... but considering how Mirage TMNT was a mere independent comic book at the time whose existence 99% of the world's population wasn't even aware of, for better or for worse it was the Fred Wolf series that ended up "defining" the image of what the Ninja Turtles are all about in the eyes of the public. And ofc the first 3 movies as well, but those are closer to FW than to Mirage despite a few things in them that are actually closer to Mirage. Pretty much no FW series fan has a problem with the first 3 movies.

The Next Mutation was cancelled ater one single season and came out after the FW series ended and the Turtlemania fad was dead. It's not well liked for the most part but its existence has been largely ignored for at least 20 years by now. How many TMNT fans do you even know who consider TNM their favourite version of the franchise? I'm sure there's like 5 of them but they represent a tiny fraction of the fandom. Clearly a smaller one than the Mirage fans.

Which means that, the 2k3 series was the first major point of fracture among the fandom. It was the return of the Ninja Turtles as a cartoon and what revived the franchise in the public conscience for the first time after the Turtlemania fad ended... and a lot of the fans who grew up with the FW series rejected it for being too different from the cartoon they grew up with. Some even didn't give it a chance and just criticised it for petty reasons. Plus, the show premiered at a time where pretty much everyone already had internet and internet forums were now popular places of discussion, which made it easier for people to gather and discuss it online. It was the first time you could discuss a current TMNT product online outside of niche communities like The Technodrome.

Then, fast forward to the Nick/Viacom sale and a new cartoon series comes out plus a comic book series by IDW and, ofc, the Platinum Dunes films. It+ don't need to remind you that a lot of older fans reject these versions as well, especially the Bay Turtles stuff and Rise.

Now, is TMNT the most divisive fandom ever? Eh probably not. That's a bold claim. But one of the most divisive ones? Could very well be, I guess. All fandoms have division within them, and I can't say I've been heavily involved in that many different fandoms throughout my life to properly assess this. Plus, the TMNT are kind of unique with having so many different takes and iterations to the point where it's gotten quite difficult to explain to a random person in 5 minutes only what the property and its main characters are all about. Some versions of the characters can be so different that they might as well be totally different characters who just happen to share the same name. How is that not going to lead to division within the fandom?

Personally, when it comes to my favourite properties, TMNT does seem to have the most divisive fandom of them all. The only other I can think of that comes somewhat close is the Zelda fandom. There's a lot of conflicting opinions about some of the games of the series... but the overall lore still seems consistent and the characters aren't beyond recognisable and hard to explain to others.

Thoughts?

Jeff · 12-14-2023, 06:41 PM

it's as divisive as any fandom of a franchise with longevity. The only other fandom's I'm currently as in tuned with as I am with TMNT is Doctor Who and Magic: The Gathering and you can overlay all 3 and see the same divisions: the old guard, the new fans, and more recently the bigot gatekeepers in disguise as loyalists/purists.

For TMNT, 1987 series and 1990 movie is the definitive Turtles. Whether those versions are your favorite, they are the baseline which all other versions build off of, and the versions that culture knows. If you ask a random person to describe Ninja Turtles in 5 random words I guarantee you it will be cowabunga, pizza, sewers, ninja, etc - all things that were popularized by those 2 versions.

That's where the division comes - I respect 1987 show for what it did for the franchise, and I was the target audience when it came out - but it's far from my favorite version. And forums like this are great places to have fun debates on why or not "my" favorite is better than "your" favorite. Over the years, the fun debates get warped by ever-changing internet trends. Even people who just want to show their love of one aspect of a franchise will be infiltrated by trolls or people who want to prove their version is superior for some reason.

*Andrew NDB* · 12-14-2023, 06:47 PM

I think it's less divisive now than it ever was. Sure there's a lot of fans of, let's call it the "post-TMNT 2012" cartoon for debate's sake... but I think far and wide there is a kind of unity even amongst formerly quarreling pockets of the fandom that TMNT at large is largely a crapshow and has been for a long time now. With small exceptions.

*Prowler* · 12-14-2023, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff

it's as divisive as any fandom of a franchise with longevity. The only other fandom's I'm currently as in tuned with as I am with TMNT is Doctor Who and Magic: The Gathering and you can overlay all 3 and see the same divisions: the old guard, the new fans, and more recently the bigot gatekeepers in disguise as loyalists/purists.

For TMNT, 1987 series and 1990 movie is the definitive Turtles. Whether those versions are your favorite, they are the baseline which all other versions build off of, and the versions that culture knows. If you ask a random person to describe Ninja Turtles in 5 random words I guarantee you it will be cowabunga, pizza, sewers, ninja, etc - all things that were popularized by those 2 versions.

That's where the division comes - I respect 1987 show for what it did for the franchise, and I was the target audience when it came out - but it's far from my favorite version. And forums like this are great places to have fun debates on why or not "my" favorite is better than "your" favorite. Over the years, the fun debates get warped by ever-changing internet trends. Even people who just want to show their love of one aspect of a franchise will be infiltrated by trolls or people who want to prove their version is superior for some reason.

I haven't watched Dr. Who ever so I have nothing to add there. And I stopped playing Magic the Gathering at the end of 9th grade... and that was in 2005 which was nearly 20 years ago already. No idea how the game changed/evolved since then. But I've noticed that Pokémon cards nowadays have different designs from when I was a kid, for example.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I think it's less divisive now than it ever was. Sure there's a lot of fans of, let's call it the "post-TMNT 2012" cartoon for debate's sake... but I think far and wide there is a kind of unity even amongst formerly quarreling pockets of the fandom that TMNT at large is largely a crapshow and has been for a long time now. With small exceptions.

Really? I honestly am way out of the loop when it to comes to the Turtles nowadays. I watched a few early 2012 episodes but didn't find the series appealing and I also got busy with university shortly afterwards. And the 1st Bay Turtles movie almost single-handedly killed my love for TMNT. I thought the property had hit its lowest point ever and lost hope for anything that would be done with it as long as Viacom owns it.

I know the 2nd Bay movie didn't do so well and Rise got cancelled rather early on. No idea what's the consensus regarding IDW. The Cowabunga Collection and the Shredder's Revenge games got very well received, but they're takes on the FW series and not on any modern TMNT version...

~~Sumac~~ · 12-14-2023, 08:35 PM

I think after all recent transformations, from Bay-Turtles to Rise to ****** IDW run to Mayhem, fandom ended up being united in its depression.
Like there are some good projects, like Ronin, but mostly fans like battered wives, just look at the series and wait what another stupid **** Viacom will do with it.

There is not many reasons for a conflict, when we all in the same ****** boat when franchise doesn't deliver.

*CyberCubed* · 12-14-2023, 08:39 PM

I'd say the difference is the 2014 movies, Rise and Mutant Mayhem don't really have a huge fanbase, and the people who like them keep to themselves so you really don't notice any division.

*Cowabung-Gal* · 12-14-2023, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sumac

Like there are some good projects, like Ronin, but mostly fans like battered wives, just look at the series and wait what another stupid **** Viacom will do with it.

I mean, I’m a hardcore TMNT fan but I don’t settle for everything that has “TMNT” slapped onto it. I have standards. These companies think that fans are like goats that will gobble up anything on sight, including garbage.

*Coola Yagami* · 12-14-2023, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowabung-Gal

These companies think that fans are like goats that will gobble up anything on sight, including garbage.

Sadly a lot of TMNT fans are.....

I guess we're just that starved for new content.

*neatoman* · 12-14-2023, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I'd say the difference is the 2014 movies, Rise and Mutant Mayhem don't really have a huge fanbase, and the people who like them keep to themselves so you really don't notice any division.

I'm not entirely sure about that. Yes, the PD are massive piles of crap, the second did see some defenders but… Well… I'm pretty much just convinced they were just salty about how the five previous theatrical movies never used Bebop, Rocksteady, Krang or the Technodrome, so they were just "happy" to "finally" see them. As for the others…

… It is true that Rise was likely a commercial failure, what with it being by far the shortest TMNT animated series and all. However, I can easily find a fanbase that is at least vocal about their enthusiasm for it. And while Mutant Mayhem is only arguable as a modest success, it was still only released this year and we know it was pretty much a pilot to a show on P+, not to mention that (despite the flaws we may see in it) the movie still received plenty of praise. In both cases I can very easily see the popularity grow over time if it isn't there already.

*Original TMNT Cartoon Fan* · 12-15-2023, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prowler

Pretty much no FW series fan has a problem with the first 3 movies.

The 1990 movie is great. Secret of the Ooze sucks, because it removed the extraterrestrial origin of the ooze. The TMNT III (1993) should have been based on the space storyarc.

~~Sumac~~ · 12-15-2023, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowabung-Gal

I mean, I’m a hardcore TMNT fan but I don’t settle for everything that has “TMNT” slapped onto it. I have standards. These companies think that fans are like goats that will gobble up anything on sight, including garbage.

I didn't mean that fans "consume" (as in buy) all that crap. Just that we wait and discuss this stuff and a lot of us still fans of the series, despite its sketchy history of the last few years.

*LeotheLateBloomer* · 12-16-2023, 08:48 AM

There's worse fandoms; Sonic, Batman, among others.

*ZariusTwo* · 12-16-2023, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

The 1990 movie is great. Secret of the Ooze sucks, because it removed the extraterrestrial origin of the ooze.

I didn't mind that at all. I like the Turtles having a more 'grounded' origin.

~~Sumac~~ · 12-16-2023, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

There's worse fandoms; Sonic, Batman, among others.

I give you Sonic (but its like THE bottom of the barrel), but what the deal with a Batman? AFAIK, he was pretty solid in recent years.

There were some questionable Batman-adjusted projects, like Batwoman, Gotham Knights or canceled Batgirl movie, but all in all, he is in a much better position, than TMNT, for which all major projects in the last few years, save few, were rather controversial.

*Andrew NDB* · 12-16-2023, 11:29 AM

Totally. Spinoff crap aside, I hate "The Batman" but imagine TMNT getting something remotely like that.

*LeotheLateBloomer* · 12-16-2023, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sumac

I give you Sonic (but its like THE bottom of the barrel), but what the deal with a Batman? AFAIK, he was pretty solid in recent years.

There were some questionable Batman-adjusted projects, like Batwoman, Gotham Knights or canceled Batgirl movie, but all in all, he is in a much better position, than TMNT, for which all major projects in the last few years, save few, were rather controversial.

I'm talking about fandoms, not the quality of a product. Like the ones that say "Batman can beat (...) with prep time or the "we need more Batman" fanboys or the "we don't need Robin, Batgirl, Nightwing, we want only Batman" fans.

Jeff · 12-17-2023, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I think it's less divisive now than it ever was. Sure there's a lot of fans of, let's call it the "post-TMNT 2012" cartoon for debate's sake... but I think far and wide there is a kind of unity even amongst formerly quarreling pockets of the fandom that TMNT at large is largely a crapshow and has been for a long time now. With small exceptions.

Assuming the fandom as a whole has unified behind TMNT being a crapshow proves the point that the fandom is divisive because that is not a general belief, it's yours.

On Reddit, while there are differing opinions, it feels as whole there is mostly positivity and respect for everyone in the fandom. On Twitter, like here, it's divisive as ever. A total shitshow of not only difference opinions, but vile discourse as well - but that's Twitter for you.

Jeff · 12-17-2023, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prowler

I haven't watched Dr. Who ever so I have nothing to add there. And I stopped playing Magic the Gathering at the end of 9th grade... and that was in 2005 which was nearly 20 years ago already. No idea how the game changed/evolved since then. But I've noticed that Pokémon cards nowadays have different designs from when I was a kid, for example.

You don't really need to know specifics, I used it more as an example of every fandom is the same in terms of divisiveness - fear of change, even if it benefits the franchise. An example using Doctor Who (without spoilers) would be that the previous showrunner introduced a new piece of the Doctor's history/origin and left it open ended. A LOT of people hated it because it changed the history they canonized in their heads, not realizing that the small change leaves open another 60 years of possible stories.

*Prowler* · 12-17-2023, 04:13 PM

I didn't mention the Sonic fandom because I'm not part of it even though I love the classic Sonic games plus Sonic Mania and also like Sonic Generations.

I just don't want to get involved in that fandom based on what I've heard of it. Sounds like the Star Fox fandom but even more toxic.

Bahamut810 · 12-17-2023, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

There's worse fandoms; Sonic, Batman, among others.

Worst Fandoms:
Steven Universe...Intentionally tried to drive someone to suicide because they commit thought crime.
Voltron...Tried to blackmail the people making the latest version to make a gay ship happen.
RWBY...consistently hardcore harasses people who don't like the show.
Harry Potter...The fanbase became huge fans of the very progressive writer who was a golden child of Diversity, but the second that she didn't tow a specific line they tried to do everything they could to harass and divorce her from her creation.

Moral of the story...TMNT fandom is not really that bad. When western SJW types start to like your stuff on X, is over.

12-14-2023, 06:21 PM	#1
Prowler Emperor Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Portugal Posts: 8,909	As of today, how divisive is the TMNT fandom compared to others? I know a thread similar to this one was made nearly a decade ago or so, but that was 9 years ago or so, and things can change a lot in such timespan. I think it's safe to say that the TMNT fandom is VERY divisive and has been so for a very long time. Normally you'd point the finger to the Fred Wolf series for being so different from the source material of Mirage... but considering how Mirage TMNT was a mere independent comic book at the time whose existence 99% of the world's population wasn't even aware of, for better or for worse it was the Fred Wolf series that ended up "defining" the image of what the Ninja Turtles are all about in the eyes of the public. And ofc the first 3 movies as well, but those are closer to FW than to Mirage despite a few things in them that are actually closer to Mirage. Pretty much no FW series fan has a problem with the first 3 movies. The Next Mutation was cancelled ater one single season and came out after the FW series ended and the Turtlemania fad was dead. It's not well liked for the most part but its existence has been largely ignored for at least 20 years by now. How many TMNT fans do you even know who consider TNM their favourite version of the franchise? I'm sure there's like 5 of them but they represent a tiny fraction of the fandom. Clearly a smaller one than the Mirage fans. Which means that, the 2k3 series was the first major point of fracture among the fandom. It was the return of the Ninja Turtles as a cartoon and what revived the franchise in the public conscience for the first time after the Turtlemania fad ended... and a lot of the fans who grew up with the FW series rejected it for being too different from the cartoon they grew up with. Some even didn't give it a chance and just criticised it for petty reasons. Plus, the show premiered at a time where pretty much everyone already had internet and internet forums were now popular places of discussion, which made it easier for people to gather and discuss it online. It was the first time you could discuss a current TMNT product online outside of niche communities like The Technodrome. Then, fast forward to the Nick/Viacom sale and a new cartoon series comes out plus a comic book series by IDW and, ofc, the Platinum Dunes films. It+ don't need to remind you that a lot of older fans reject these versions as well, especially the Bay Turtles stuff and Rise. Now, is TMNT the most divisive fandom ever? Eh probably not. That's a bold claim. But one of the most divisive ones? Could very well be, I guess. All fandoms have division within them, and I can't say I've been heavily involved in that many different fandoms throughout my life to properly assess this. Plus, the TMNT are kind of unique with having so many different takes and iterations to the point where it's gotten quite difficult to explain to a random person in 5 minutes only what the property and its main characters are all about. Some versions of the characters can be so different that they might as well be totally different characters who just happen to share the same name. How is that not going to lead to division within the fandom? Personally, when it comes to my favourite properties, TMNT does seem to have the most divisive fandom of them all. The only other I can think of that comes somewhat close is the Zelda fandom. There's a lot of conflicting opinions about some of the games of the series... but the overall lore still seems consistent and the characters aren't beyond recognisable and hard to explain to others. Thoughts?

12-14-2023, 06:47 PM	#3
Andrew NDB Weed Whacker Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Auburn, WA Posts: 29,299	I think it's less divisive now than it ever was. Sure there's a lot of fans of, let's call it the "post-TMNT 2012" cartoon for debate's sake... but I think far and wide there is a kind of unity even amongst formerly quarreling pockets of the fandom that TMNT at large is largely a crapshow and has been for a long time now. With small exceptions. __________________ [ ODYSSEY \| ORIGIN \| THE IMAGE/VOL. 3 CONCLUSION \| THE SHELLSHOCKED PODCAST \| ON FACEBOOK ]

12-16-2023, 11:29 AM	#15
Andrew NDB Weed Whacker Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Auburn, WA Posts: 29,299	Totally. Spinoff crap aside, I hate "The Batman" but imagine TMNT getting something remotely like that. __________________ [ ODYSSEY \| ORIGIN \| THE IMAGE/VOL. 3 CONCLUSION \| THE SHELLSHOCKED PODCAST \| ON FACEBOOK ]

12-14-2023, 06:41 PM	#2
Jeff Stone Warrior Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: I heard the sewers in Connecticut are nice. Posts: 554	it's as divisive as any fandom of a franchise with longevity. The only other fandom's I'm currently as in tuned with as I am with TMNT is Doctor Who and Magic: The Gathering and you can overlay all 3 and see the same divisions: the old guard, the new fans, and more recently the bigot gatekeepers in disguise as loyalists/purists. For TMNT, 1987 series and 1990 movie is the definitive Turtles. Whether those versions are your favorite, they are the baseline which all other versions build off of, and the versions that culture knows. If you ask a random person to describe Ninja Turtles in 5 random words I guarantee you it will be cowabunga, pizza, sewers, ninja, etc - all things that were popularized by those 2 versions. That's where the division comes - I respect 1987 show for what it did for the franchise, and I was the target audience when it came out - but it's far from my favorite version. And forums like this are great places to have fun debates on why or not "my" favorite is better than "your" favorite. Over the years, the fun debates get warped by ever-changing internet trends. Even people who just want to show their love of one aspect of a franchise will be infiltrated by trolls or people who want to prove their version is superior for some reason.

12-14-2023, 08:35 PM	#5
~~Sumac~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 6,129	I think after all recent transformations, from Bay-Turtles to Rise to **** IDW run to Mayhem, fandom ended up being united in its depression. Like there are some good projects, like Ronin, but mostly fans like battered wives, just look at the series and wait what another stupid Viacom will do with it. There is not many reasons for a conflict, when we all in the same **** boat when franchise doesn't deliver.

12-14-2023, 08:39 PM	#6
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 41,080	I'd say the difference is the 2014 movies, Rise and Mutant Mayhem don't really have a huge fanbase, and the people who like them keep to themselves so you really don't notice any division.

12-16-2023, 08:48 AM	#12
LeotheLateBloomer Foot Elite Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 2,977	There's worse fandoms; Sonic, Batman, among others.

12-17-2023, 04:13 PM	#19
Prowler Emperor Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Portugal Posts: 8,909	I didn't mention the Sonic fandom because I'm not part of it even though I love the classic Sonic games plus Sonic Mania and also like Sonic Generations. I just don't want to get involved in that fandom based on what I've heard of it. Sounds like the Star Fox fandom but even more toxic.