Rise is Cancelled

[Powder]

Well, the finale confirmed the movie is still happening, so that's good. Haters can get dabbed on for a little while longer yet.

[Leo656]

I wish people could simply have opinions without being called names or having their character put into question.

It's bad enough when people do it over politics and things that might actually matter in the real world, but being petty and spiteful because a cartoon show got cancelled? Well... not for nothing, but that's some "pot - kettle" stuff. Just sayin'.

I personally don't think the show failed because it was "different". People have shown they're fine with "different". I think it failed because it was insipid. And I think laying blame and calling people names because they didn't like a cartoon oversimplifies the issue dramatically. There's people who did more than "give it a chance", they hate-watched it despite knowing what it was all about and just wanted to support the brand. And it still didn't gain any ground.

It's NOT as simple as, "people just hated it because it was different". If most people are anything like me, it was because it was "too dumb for even THIS lousy franchise." Even those abysmal PD movies had an audience. This show was ignored. That says a lot. To me, it says that there is actually a line where it goes from "dumb but charming" into just plain "dumb".

People don't have to share that opinion by any means. If they liked the show, they liked the show. But that's probably what happened. Not "too different". Just plain too "WTF even IS this?"

When "Well, at least it's different" is your one and only gimmick, you're not gonna last. It's not enough to be "different". Different gets you attention, it doesn't get you laid. It also helps to be "good". Was it good? Ehhhh. Apparently, some people think so. Some people also think the Grateful Dead performed good music and that tofu counts as "food". People can have all kinds of crazy opinions, that's America. BUT. If a person is gonna wear such things on one's sleeve, it's unbecoming to call names and insist everyone ELSE has something wrong with them if they don't agree.

I personally think it got a longer run than it deserved, for a show that got lousy ratings and had toys that nobody bought. Supporters can take solace in that.

I do agree that the next reboot probably still won't be any good, but not because "Nick only cares about doing FW." I'm not convinced that's actually the lesson they're taking. The problem is that whether the take is "traditional" or "new and different", they only care about entertaining little kids with ADHD. So long as they insist the only people worth pandering to are 7-year olds, it really doesn't matter WHAT approach they use, the results will be poor. Because little kids have awful taste, they don't know how to verbalize their opinions into anything substantial, and they don't have any money to spend, therefore it's stupid to pander to them when 80% of your audience is actually 30-something.

Going into more familiar territory IS the right thing to do. Doing a "TMNT show" that only barely resembled TMNT in any way at all WAS a mistake. Do I think more familiar elements will resurface in the next reboot? Yes, because that's the only logical thing to do when you bet everything on Red and lose. You don't double-down on your mistakes. Do I think it will be crummy? Probably. Not because it's going to be "too FW inspired", although Lord knows I'd love to pile concrete over that show's grave once and for all by this point, myself. No, the next reboot will be lousy simply because Nick was the wrong company to buy this brand, they don't run it right, and they have piss-poor priorities and absolutely no vision beyond pimping toys.

ANYTHING they do will be bad, whether they try and be "wacky" again or go back to recycling what worked before. They "can't" do anything of substance with the property, because ALL of it is conceived in sin. It's a kids' company that owns a brand where all the fans are almost 40. They think we're all stupid, they don't listen to us, and they don't understand why everything they do fails worse than the last thing. Because they THINK it's a kids' property when it's NOT.

THAT is the problem. THAT is why they can't do anything of substance and THAT is why the next reboot probably won't be any good either. You're never gonna get anything resembling Shakespeare when the guys holding the pen only aspire to write Bazooka Joe. Just doesn't work.

[Powder]

SO apparently storyboard artist JJ Conway, among others, were in a livestream earlier & said the series wasn't actually cancelled but that they "finished their run" & it's technically considered on hiatus. They also said that folks should pester Nick to show interest, as the confirmed-in-production film is going to be treated like its last chance; if it does well, more episodes may be ordered. Sweet. I won't get my hopes up too much, but that'd be great. I don't want to go back to status quo.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by Powder

Well, the finale confirmed the movie is still happening, so that's good. Haters can get dabbed on for a little while longer yet.

Meh, since it'll stand as its own thing I'm kind of hoping they'll maybe rework the concept a little for that.

Esp since they've had to know for a while that they were cutting the show short and this movie would not be any kind of connecting fill in between portions of it after all as originally suggested (in quotes in articles I can no longer locate).



edit: God that dabbing thing is annoying and will be very dated in no time. Why do humans even come up this stuff.

[Leofan26]

Maybe NetFlix is its best chance of getting a third season, it worked for Young Justice but that had more viewership. Not sure how much of a feedback this film would get, particularly if its in the middle of season two and not a continuation from the final. At least that's what I've been hearing or maybe I'm confused now due to the season having less episodes than originally was said. I don't know if this series has that big of a fandom to bother Nick if it gets canceled but it's nice they are considering it. Even though there's a lot of other shows on Nick that should have gotten another season like Danny Phantom in my opinion, how big was that show compared to this I wonder.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

edit: God that dabbing thing is annoying and will be very dated in no time. Why do humans even come up this stuff.

I know, right? It's like when we were in high school and kids thought they totally "dunked" on someone by doing the "Suck it!" crotch chop thing, when in fact all it did was advertise that they'd never know the touch of a woman without exchanging money and/or lice.

Although to be fair, the guys who invented the crotch chop were already millionaires who were on TV in front of 30 million people every week and drowning in poontang to start with when they came up with that. So I guess some young, impressionable people could be forgiven for thinking that if they just imitated that gesture sincerely and to perfection, they too would become rich, famous, and laid. But they ignored all the other variables, such as "Those guys are legit 7 feet tall and have immaculate hair", for example. You can make anything look cool if those are your Starting Stats.



See? When Kevin Nash does it, it's cool. But that's because everything he does is cool, because he's the guy doing it. The guy.
Wears. Leather. PANTS. Without irony. When other people do this kinda stuff, it just looks stupid. He was born a Golden God, therefore he can make anything work, even if it's stupid. There's a whole self-awareness thing going on that I feel like most people who imitate such questionable behavior simply don't take in.

But yeah... "dabbing", that's just... that's just inexcusable.

EDIT: Also, if he'd pulled that above "move" on the Turtles right before he trashed that stupid pier, then "Secret of the Ooze" would immediately be my favorite movie of all time. All else would be forgiven if ol' "Super Shredder" told them to take it downtown right before he went out like a putz. At least that would'a been funny.

[Sumac]

And nothing of value or importance was lost.

I hope in the next series, they won't "racelift" characters for no reason.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Powder

https://66.media.tumblr.com/2490d89a...vzn0bq_540.jpg

SO apparently storyboard artist JJ Conway, among others, were in a livestream earlier & said the series wasn't actually cancelled but that they "finished their run" & it's technically considered on hiatus. They also said that folks should pester Nick to show interest, as the confirmed-in-production film is going to be treated like its last chance; if it does well, more episodes may be ordered. Sweet. I won't get my hopes up too much, but that'd be great. I don't want to go back to status quo.

Encouraging harassment of a company to get your way. How democratic..but that's social media and America for you.

Animators say this crap all the time, it's their baby, it's hard to let go, but it's rare that a company actually listens to them or the fans. Nick in particular.

Nick bent to fans whims for Hey Arnold (after a decade plus), and while it was great to get closure for that series, there were plans from Craig and the studio to greenlight a sixth season. What happened? The Jungle movie bombed, and the only continuation we've gotten since has been an illustrated instagram serial focusing on Arnold and Helga dealing with the pandemic.

If there was a chance the programme was just 'on hiatus', then why did it's creator post a eulogy for it? That seemed pretty final to me. Chances are if it comes back it might not have him at the helm, or anyone else who worked on it.

Do we need Rise enthusiasts to be on par with Snyder cultists? That money and interest could be put into a much better programme or TMNT incarnation. Rise had all the chances in the world to make an impact, and it didn't deliver. Reality is harsh.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Do we need Rise enthusiasts to be on par with Snyder cultists? That money and interest could be put into a much better programme or TMNT incarnation. Rise had all the chances in the world to make an impact, and it didn't deliver. Reality is harsh.

Oh, god forbid that anyone who's two movies deep into a storyline actually ask for the proper third chapter to be released when it was already 70% or more complete in the first place. People complaining about WB actually doing the right thing for once are the ones out of line, not the people who were bait-and-switched into paying for a movie that was not at all the movie the trailers sold them three years ago. The "Justice League" situation is about penance and reparations, don't try and make it into something unseemly. Nobody did anything wrong by asking for the movie they paid to see to actually see the light of day. WB bait-and-switched everyone and paid for it, and now they're trying to "apologize" (for Cynical Business Reasons because there's money to be made). That's all perfectly fine. "The Only Right Thing To Do", even.

C'mon, man, you're better than that. We both hate "Rise" but if people wanna bleat and pester Nickelodeon, let 'em. Let 'em pretend that Nick is suddenly gonna start listening to what people say after 10 years. I agree that in this show's case it's a complete waste of energy because it's not something worth holding onto, but the situations aren't even close to the same thing at all. "We want the product you originally sold us and then lied about" isn't at all the same as "We want more Seasons of a TV show that was cancelled because nobody watched it."

Regardless of anything else... at least more people than could fit in a phone booth wanted Justice League. If "Rise" fans wanna piss in the wind, I ain't gonna stop 'em. Frankly if there were enough of them to make a difference in the first place the show wouldn't have gotten cancelled, so I'm not sweating it if they wanna write emails. Not that it would matter anyway; Nick openly doesn't listen to people, so why would it matter? Let 'em howl.

Anyways, that was not at all your best jab. Bad, awful, terrible analogy. No points this round. I'm with you in spirit but that was just a really weak swing.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Oh, god forbid that anyone who's two movies deep into a storyline actually ask for the proper third chapter to be released when it was already 70% or more complete in the first place. People complaining about WB actually doing the right thing for once are the ones out of line, not the people who were bait-and-switched into paying for a movie that was not at all the movie the trailers sold them three years ago. The "Justice League" situation is about penance and reparations, don't try and make it into something unseemly. Nobody did anything wrong by asking for the movie they paid to see to actually see the light of day. WB bait-and-switched everyone and paid for it, and now they're trying to apologize (because there's money to be made). That's all perfectly fine.

Sorry bro, didn't mean to tar and feather EVERY one of the Snyder cut movement, they've done great things and they have valid reasons that were validated over time. My comment was aimed more at the more overly hostile piggybackers that use the movement to express themselves in a toxic manner. There's some bad apples in every fresh fruit basket.

[Leo656]

I'm simply not comfortable at all with recent implications that anyone who merely asks to be heard is a whiny bitch, regardless of what they're asking for.

It started with the Sonic movie. But the design was poor! Redesigning it was the RIGHT thing to do! It single-handedly saved the movie, even though it wasted a lot of resources. People said, "This is what we want," studio says "Okay". Movie makes money. ONE GUY in the crowd, though, stood up and shouted "Great. Bullying the studios. Great precedent." And I sighed.

Then it was "Justice League". Regardless of people's opinions on Snyder, the trailers all lied! The theatrical cut was lousy! It wasn't the "real" movie! People paid for something and got something else entirely, and they have every right to be angry. They had every right to be heard. I, personally, never signed or hashtagged a damn thing, because I don't expect it to matter and I'm used to being told my opinions aren't worth squat, so I don't bother. But sometimes it does matter, and that's nice. People are getting the movie they paid for, finally. And again, a few grumblers say, "Well awesome, just whine until you get your way, that's great." Never mind that the studio is who f*cked up and people were well within their rights to voice their displeasure as often as possible, through whatever avenues available, because they paid money to see one thing and got something else entirely, which shouldn't even be legal. Whining? Hardly. Reparations. Dare I say... "Justice". But some people call it "whining" and "bullying", mostly because they just don't care for the director's style and were hoping the whole thing would go away. It's not going away, so they cry foul. They are MAD that someone got what they asked for, for once. Who's the villain THERE? C'mon.

I was raised that if you ask for Coke and they bring you Sprite, you don't drink it with a smile, you say "Excuse me, this isn't what I asked for" and you make them fix it. Otherwise you're just telling people you'll settle for anything. Which makes one a doormat.

Let me be clear, I don't get involved with petitions or movements or email blasts or any of that stuff, regardless of anything, because I personally have better sh*t to do. But at the same time, I will never call anyone a whiner or a bully or a crybaby simply for asking for what they want. It doesn't hurt anyone. I can personally think the thing they're asking for is stupid and pointless, but they're perfectly within their rights to ask regardless of MY opinion on the subject.

This new "I like to bend over for TV and movie studios, and just take what I'm given and never ask for what I want, because if you tell them what you want then that's Whining and Bullying" thing going around the last year or so is horse sh*t. It's not "whining" and it's not "bullying", it's called Democracy. And just about the ONLY good thing about Democracy is that if enough people want something and ask for it, they'll probably get it. That's how the free market operates; you don't dictate what people are supposed to like, you supply to the demand. If there's no demand, then fine, no product. If there IS demand, you can't rightly shut those people down because "They should ask for something else instead."

I do think Rise was stupid, and pointless, and a waste of time and resources, and that anyone who asks for more of it is actively working against what's best for the TMNT brand whether they realize it or not. I agree with you about ALL of that. But it really doesn't matter if I think that; if enough people say they want more, then they might get it.

Far be it from me to argue with that basic concept, just because I hate the show more than I have words to express. People have literally fought and died so these people have the right to at least ask if they can have more of the thing they like. If I call them names over it, just because I hate the thing they like, then guess what? I'm an asshole.

And I am definitely an asshole, but I am not THAT kind of asshole.

I'm not much of a believer in anything, but above all else I have to hold sacrosanct the ideal that anyone has the right to express their opinions and ask for what they want without limit or restriction. If people petition for more episodes of "Rise" and they get it, I can simply continue to not watch it while maintaining that it's keeping the brand in the gutter by aiming so damn low, and they can in turn continue to ignore MY opinion on the subject.

People died for those rights. So goddamn if I'm gonna imply that anyone's being a bully, a whiner or a baby just because they might wanna make a phone call. I can think they're 100% wrong and I can hate their opinion, but I'm definitely not gonna stand in their way or tell them they can't do it.

I fully agree with your point, I just think you went about it in a lousy way. I know that in some parts of the world, asking for something and not shutting up until you get it is called "whining". Over here, we just call that 'Merica. I don't have to like what they ask for, I'm just glad people even get a f*cking voice. That should be celebrated, not scorned.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I fully agree with your point, I just think you went about it in a lousy way.

Understood. Can't apologise enough, just a case of letting one or two lousy experiences get the better of me

This new "I like to bend over for TV and movie studios, and just take what I'm given and never ask for what I want, because if you tell them what you want then that's Whining and Bullying" thing going around the last year or so is horse sh*t. It's not "whining" and it's not "bullying", it's called Democracy.

Well argued, I just wish people would use those rights to demand even better from their providers, not just something familiar, not just the same thing that pleased them before, but the opportunity to advance their existing perks, to enhance it, an entirely new experience. With Snyder cut fans, they're at least getting that...i'm talking about Rise fans wanting more of something that simply HASN'T WORKED...not something that has'nt been given a chance TO succeed or fail.

If Rise worked, it would not be in the situation it's presently in. If animators are insisting on unofficial livestreams that it was on it's last chance with the movie, why would it rquire a eulogy from it's creator? If it comes back, would the toyline come back to promote it? I doubt that, merch for this show didn't take off, and the show's job is to promote the toyline. The movie won't have any merch tied in to it, so it's looking to be a loss for the franchise on that end of the spectrum.

People being perfectly OK with what they're given, refusing to fight for better content and wanting more like Rise is what gets my goat. At least with the Synder cut, as you say, there's an unglimpsed product rife with world-building potential for the DC line to come, perhaps the supreme course correction should it do well. Rise? We've taken a glimpse at it's product and it's just not a game changer. It's not even sincere in it's bizareness, it's just a licenced rehash of a thousand similarly styled animated products that infest animation networks daily.

It didn't stand out, it didn't redefine TMNT for anyone, that was the 2012 show's job.

I don't like Nick's 2012 TMNT but it defined TMNT for the last decade and raised the bar to such a degree that it will likely take a decade to probably match it's importance to the current generation.

[Vicky82]

It's a shame it ended, it was a good show but it really wasn't my cup of tea but I still watched it. I just couldn't get into it as much as previous show.

I will watch the Netflix movie when it comes out.

[Leo656]

All's well, Zar, and believe me, it's not you specifically I'm annoyed with. Like I said, it started with the Sonic movie.

That original design was f*cking dogsh*t. People cried foul, the studio caved in. Yaaaaaaay! Awesome. Didn't care to see the movie, but it was nice to see the process actually work. I was happy that others were happy and I liked the new design, which was what it always should have been.

But those one or two chuckleheads... "GREAT, now people are just gonna whine at the studios anytime they don't get their way, like children." Um... good? Like, you should do that if you're unhappy and why is that a bad thing all of a sudden? I didn't get it.

JL, same thing. People weren't pissed that democracy actually prevailed, they were pissed because "Dammit, I hoped I'd heard the last of that Evil Zack Snyder once and for all!" People who hate him can't even hear his name without going into a fit about how he ruined their childhood and raped their mother (who may or may not have been named Martha) and they just didn't wanna hear his name ever again, thus they were "triggered" by the fact that his movie was coming out. "People bullied the studios! What fiends!" C'mon, man, what kinda piece of sh*t do you have to be to defend a f*cking movie studio? A goddamn corporation? Talk about "spin" when you're calling the people who merely asked for the film they paid to see a bunch of nasty names. Sour grapes, nothing more.

It's just a troublesome recent trend I've seen, is all, people complaining about democracy and campaigning actually working once in a rare while. Why complain about a good thing? It proves that sometimes, "They" listen to the common rabble and aren't beyond making concessions and course-corrections. We always cry about how "They" don't listen... and then the few times they do, one or two people wanna cry about it setting a bad precedent. That's not the issue, they're just pissy because something they don't like or care about is going to make someone else happy, and that's petty.

Likewise, if people wanna call or write about more "Rise", more power to 'em. If they get their way, my life goes on. I get to shake my head and sigh, and they can continue ignoring my opinion. Either way, life goes on. Even if it's not what I want, I can't help but be happy whenever a situation arises where a group of people say, "I want this," and the Powers That Be actually reply with, "We hear you." That's empowering. The outcome doesn't have to be in my favor for me to be glad that the system works sometimes.

I mean, opinion-wise, I'm with you. If TMNT fans put that fire in their belly to use on something with more importance and substance than "Rise", that would be nice. The more "Rise" we get, the farther off we are from any sort of "renaissance", and I strongly feel like this whole experiment is going to be filed next to Next Mutation and Turtle Tunes in the "Big Book of TMNT Misfires" when history's had its way. I've always felt that way. I think it took the franchise right into a brick wall and did little but prove to some people that "Yeah, TMNT is really, really, really stupid." Which I don't like, appreciate, or agree with. I think the damage it did to the brand is gonna take years to recover from. I think people should want more and demand more. I do.

But if people like it I can't tell them not to ask for more of it, even if I sincerely wish they'd ask for something else instead. And believe me, I do.

But frankly, I don't even hold them at fault. It's all Nickelodeon. I can't worry about possibly getting more Rise episodes when the next reboot will probably be terrible from a different angle, too, just because the pen-holders have bad priorities. If I had any hope for this franchise, I might care more, but frankly I don't. Sh*t, let "Rise" have another 100 episodes. I still wouldn't watch it, and I'd still expect the next show to be lousy too. So it really doesn't matter. Nick's handling of the brand is fundamentally flawed and their "take" on what TMNT is and should be is totally broken. I'd be more upset about Rise keeping us from getting something better... if I had ANY faith in Nick at all to actually deliver that "Something Better".

In 10 years, Nick's given us one "Meh" cartoon show, one that's either brilliant or godawful depending on who you ask, and two terrible movies. Their TMNT record is complete sh*t, I'm not giving them the benefit of the doubt any damn way. They are not capable of presenting the brand correctly, because they think it's a kids' property when it is not that at all. Their entire "method" is flawed. You can't grow fruit in poisoned soil.

"Rise" does hold back "progress" by way of its existence. But Rise is merely a symptom. Nick is the disease. Every bad cartoon, every bad movie, is just reinforcement of the fact that They Don't Get It. Do I think it's questionable for people to petition for more "Rise"? Sure, if anything they ought'a be petitioning for Nick to sell the damn brand to WB so we can get something good more than once every 20 years outta this pile'a sh*t, instead of pining for a TV show that wouldn't have gotten canned if more than 100 people even watched it in the first place.

BUT. That ain't gonna happen so anything in the meantime is no skin off my ass. I know what they SHOULD be doing, but... it ain't gonna happen anyway, so "eh".

[neatoman]

This whole thread is weird because we kind of knew of this since forever, it just wasn't confirmed.

[Leo656]

Right? Toys on Clearance the day after Christmas with zero restocks was a dead giveaway.

"Denial ain't just a river in Egypt", etc. etc. etc.

[AquaParade]

We really should make a ruckus about WB buying TMNT. That would be awesome.

But to Nick's credit they did open up the toy license which has been very fruitful and they've also allowed IDW the license to print and reprint a lot of cool books. And I think the nick cartoon is a solid product.

But yeah, it hasn't been great, overall, and WB would probably spoil us with all types of adult-oriented fare.

What happened to that aggressive guy who kept saying a WB buyout was in the cards?

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

What happened to that aggressive guy who kept saying a WB buyout was in the cards?

Ruthless aggression got him the F out

[Leo656]

Tommy? He got banned for saying he didn't like how effeminate the IDW book was becoming to the handler's "face". Another victim of "Corporate". By their decree: Diversity of color/sex/misc. = Good. Diversity of Thought = Unacceptable. So it was, so it remains.

Probably for the best, though. He'd be cackling like a jackal since he's been saying for 8 months or whatever that Rise was over with. Everyone loves to say "I told you so", and I love it more than most, but if he wasn't already Banned, I have a feeling he wouldn't be able to contain himself today. He'd be so overwhelmed with joyous emotions that he'd be kicked out no later than lunchtime, of that I have no doubt. So it's probably better for us all that he just laughs at us from afar, secure in his "victory".

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I wish people could simply have opinions without being called names or having their character put into question.

It's bad enough when people do it over politics and things that might actually matter in the real world, but being petty and spiteful because a cartoon show got cancelled? Well... not for nothing, but that's some "pot - kettle" stuff. Just sayin'.

I personally don't think the show failed because it was "different". People have shown they're fine with "different". I think it failed because it was insipid. And I think laying blame and calling people names because they didn't like a cartoon oversimplifies the issue dramatically. There's people who did more than "give it a chance", they hate-watched it despite knowing what it was all about and just wanted to support the brand. And it still didn't gain any ground.

It's NOT as simple as, "people just hated it because it was different". If most people are anything like me, it was because it was "too dumb for even THIS lousy franchise." Even those abysmal PD movies had an audience. This show was ignored. That says a lot. To me, it says that there is actually a line where it goes from "dumb but charming" into just plain "dumb".

People don't have to share that opinion by any means. If they liked the show, they liked the show. But that's probably what happened. Not "too different". Just plain too "WTF even IS this?"

When "Well, at least it's different" is your one and only gimmick, you're not gonna last. It's not enough to be "different". Different gets you attention, it doesn't get you laid. It also helps to be "good". Was it good? Ehhhh. Apparently, some people think so. Some people also think the Grateful Dead performed good music and that tofu counts as "food". People can have all kinds of crazy opinions, that's America. BUT. If a person is gonna wear such things on one's sleeve, it's unbecoming to call names and insist everyone ELSE has something wrong with them if they don't agree.

I personally think it got a longer run than it deserved, for a show that got lousy ratings and had toys that nobody bought. Supporters can take solace in that.

I do agree that the next reboot probably still won't be any good, but not because "Nick only cares about doing FW." I'm not convinced that's actually the lesson they're taking. The problem is that whether the take is "traditional" or "new and different", they only care about entertaining little kids with ADHD. So long as they insist the only people worth pandering to are 7-year olds, it really doesn't matter WHAT approach they use, the results will be poor. Because little kids have awful taste, they don't know how to verbalize their opinions into anything substantial, and they don't have any money to spend, therefore it's stupid to pander to them when 80% of your audience is actually 30-something.

Going into more familiar territory IS the right thing to do. Doing a "TMNT show" that only barely resembled TMNT in any way at all WAS a mistake. Do I think more familiar elements will resurface in the next reboot? Yes, because that's the only logical thing to do when you bet everything on Red and lose. You don't double-down on your mistakes. Do I think it will be crummy? Probably. Not because it's going to be "too FW inspired", although Lord knows I'd love to pile concrete over that show's grave once and for all by this point, myself. No, the next reboot will be lousy simply because Nick was the wrong company to buy this brand, they don't run it right, and they have piss-poor priorities and absolutely no vision beyond pimping toys.

ANYTHING they do will be bad, whether they try and be "wacky" again or go back to recycling what worked before. They "can't" do anything of substance with the property, because ALL of it is conceived in sin. It's a kids' company that owns a brand where all the fans are almost 40. They think we're all stupid, they don't listen to us, and they don't understand why everything they do fails worse than the last thing. Because they THINK it's a kids' property when it's NOT.

THAT is the problem. THAT is why they can't do anything of substance and THAT is why the next reboot probably won't be any good either. You're never gonna get anything resembling Shakespeare when the guys holding the pen only aspire to write Bazooka Joe. Just doesn't work.

This! I've always wanted something to not lean so heavily on FW but it's not enough to just be different. It sucks how some people act like you must either join the "More FW" camp or the "Be different" camp without a middle ground option or any context of what we're getting ourselves into if we join either side. It's basically "pick your poison." I know when I want to give things a chance but first impressions are everything to me.