Back from a 30-year absence!

tekering · 09-25-2018, 01:09 AM

Bear with me here, gentlemen: I’ve finally been approved to post on these forums, and I’ve got lots I want to say.

I’m probably too old to be here. As a child of the seventies, my obsessions were Star Trek, Battlestar: Galactica, Star Blazers, The Black Hole and Star Wars… If it wasn’t space opera, it didn’t interest me. Certainly, nothing involving bad-ass martial arts on the gritty streets of New York would’ve caught my fancy then.

However, by 1986, Transformers: The Movie had turned a children’s cartoon into something gritty and bad-ass, and James Cameron had proven that space opera could be gritty and bad-ass with Aliens. It was the right time for me to discover Eastman and Laird’s gritty and bad-ass Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and I still treasure those original issues today.

By 1987, it had to be gritty and bad-ass to interest me at all, and Predator and RoboCop were exactly that. I remember reading the editorial in Mirage comics that TMNT was being produced as an animated series, and expectations were high; a gritty and bad-ass cartoon? This could be cooler than Galaxy Rangers!

See where I’m going with this?

Suffice it to say, I was appalled by TMNT ’87. The Turtles were cute, not cool. The humor was childish, the characters were shallow, the action was moronic, and Krang took the Utrom concept from the comics and shat all over it. I was disgusted. The merchandising, the toys, and the Jim Henson movies only made it worse, and I washed my hands of the whole franchise.

I hated the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

So, for the last thirty years, I’ve ignored TMNT entirely. I never saw The Next Mutation, the 4Kids TV cartoon, the 2007 CGI movie, or the new live-action films, and I’d never even heard about the Nickelodeon series… not until a junior high student of mine showed me a clip on his iPad last month.

“When I was your age, the Turtles were cool,” I started to tell him, like any cranky middle-aged man would talk to a teenager. “They ARE cool,” he insisted. “Just watch.”

TMNT cartoons never felt right to me — and live-action TMNT never worked, either — but CGI is uniquely suited to the concept. The lighting is moody and evocative, the movement is dynamic and exciting, and the production design is simple but impeccably detailed at the same time. The quality of the animation amazed me — even surpassing Star Wars: Rebels — and the character designs are perfect. Finally, the Turtles are cute AND cool! I was hooked immediately.

Still, I wasn’t prepared for the depth of characterization, the quality of the writing, the talents of the cast, or the spectacular action sequences. And the humor! This show has me laughing out loud every episode, something a TV series rarely ever manages to do. This show is so much fun to watch!

So, over the past couple of weeks, I’ve shown it to any student, friend or colleague I can, and reactions have been enormously positive across the board. I’ve prepared class presentations about the evolution of the franchise, and solicited opinions from adults totally unfamiliar with TMNT. I’ve compared other film and TV adaptations, and found them all lacking (although the CGI film from 2007 was pretty good).

I’ve also bought over two dozen action figures, and boy, are they a mixed bag…!

Anyway, this show has made me a TMNT fan again, and I can’t wait to see more of the series. It disappoints me to know it’s already over — and even more disappointing to see what’s replaced it — but for now, I’m looking forward to enjoying the remaining hundred episodes or so. Honestly, I haven’t seen a cartoon this good since The Maxx.

For those of you who enjoy it as much as I do, does anything else on American TV compare?

*newfan* · 09-25-2018, 01:20 AM

Welcome to the drome! Always nice to see another fan of the last show, I came in to the franchise because of that one (but I have explored and appreciated other versions too)
Enjoy the your time here.

*Powder* · 09-25-2018, 01:27 AM

Welcome to the boards. There are plenty of fans in your age bracket on & off the site, no worries!

Anyway, all that you say of the 2012 series is true, it's definitely a standout iteration among the many that exist. Hopefully you enjoy the rest of it as much as you have what you've watched so far. Given what you grew up on, I should think you'll especially dig season 4's space arc. You probably get a kick out of the Star Trek parody series Leonardo watches, eh?

To call this series' toyline a mixed bag is an understatement, there are probably more misses than hits, unfortunately. On the bright side, a set of adult collector aimed figures that are 100% screen accurate, fully articulated, & accompanied by a bevy of accessories were made. Look up "Revoltech TMNT". Living in Japan you should have a decent chance of getting a set as they were produced there & were recently re-released.

As a fellow big-time Mirage fan I am shocked that you don't like the first Henson film. Aside from April being a reporter & The Foot a path for wayward youth, it adapts aspects of early issues quite faithfully. The cinematography & visual ambiance are stellar, characterization's spot on, it's easily the best TMNT movie.

As for as other shows comparing to this one, I don't know of any.

*Utrommaniac* · 09-25-2018, 01:46 AM

Yeah, you're definitely not the oldest person around here, there's plenty more in your age group...I am not one of them.

There's plenty more in the Mirage run if you're interested since it carried on to the early 2000's. Just...tread lightly, it's a bit of a mess.

The IDW comics are also pretty amazing if you enjoy the last show and Mirage, since for me it overcomes the weaknesses of both and relishes in their strengths.

So if you're able to expand a little more, totally go for those.

tekering · 09-25-2018, 01:57 AM

Thanks for the welcome, guys. I'm looking forward to catching up with the franchise... at least, what Mirage did with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Utrommaniac

The IDW comics are also pretty amazing if you enjoy the last show and Mirage, since for me it overcomes the weaknesses of both and relishes in their strengths.

Excellent, thanks for the recommendation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Powder

On the bright side, a set of adult collector aimed figures that are 100% screen accurate, fully articulated, & accompanied by a bevy of accessories were made.

Oh yes, I love the Revoltech Turtles.

I'm especially happy I found a skateboard for Mikey!

NECA's Mirage Turtles are still my favorites, though.

*Utrommaniac* · 09-25-2018, 02:09 AM

Well, again...buckle up for Volume 4 when you get to it...

Tales of the TMNT is easily Mirage's best, though.

*ZariusTwo* · 09-25-2018, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tekering

Suffice it to say, I was appalled by TMNT ’87. The Turtles were cute, not cool. The humor was childish, the characters were shallow, the action was moronic, and Krang took the Utrom concept from the comics and shat all over it. I was disgusted. The merchandising, the toys, and the Jim Henson movies only made it worse, and I washed my hands of the whole franchise.

>Trashes everything that was the building blocks of the franchise's mainstream popularity
>Praises the overrated 2012 Nick show, which would not exist without any of the former.

Yeah, we're not going to be friends.

*Andrew NDB* · 09-25-2018, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tekering

Suffice it to say, I was appalled by TMNT ’87. The Turtles were cute, not cool. The humor was childish, the characters were shallow, the action was moronic, and Krang took the Utrom concept from the comics and shat all over it. I was disgusted. The merchandising, the toys, and the Jim Henson movies only made it worse, and I washed my hands of the whole franchise.

If that's all you saw of it, you should've. The cartoon is horrible and bares no resemblance to the "real" Turtles. The second and third movies are largely embarrassing to watch, and even the first one sells itself way short.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tekering

Thanks for the welcome, guys. I'm looking forward to catching up with the franchise... at least, what Mirage did with it.

That's really the only aspect that's worth checking out in 2018, IMHO. Even stuff like IDW is TMNT jambalaya, with mostly Fred Wolf stuff in play... like a fanfiction of someone who used to be balls deep into the toys and old cartoon as a kid.

*Autbot_Benz* · 09-25-2018, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tekering

the Jim Henson movies only made it worse, and I washed my hands of the whole franchise.

Regarding your thoughts on the first tmnt movie by steve barron

*IndigoErth* · 09-25-2018, 12:09 PM

Welcome, and welcome back!

Nah, never too old, but I do envy your having been old enough to enjoy the original comics. (But not the feeling over the first cartoon like I kind of feel over the newest one.

)

Yeah, Nickelodeon's first series was so well done and such a shame that it ended already. A good mixing of the serious and the silly. I wasn't away from TMNT as long (almost 19 years), but the 2012 series is likewise what also caught my eye and brought me back, too.

Longview01 · 09-25-2018, 12:57 PM

You like the dark moody turtles yet ignored 2k3?

*Andrew NDB* · 09-25-2018, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longview01

You like the dark moody turtles yet ignored 2k3?

Why not? I would. 2K3 Turtles are pretty far removed from Mirage, tonally and otherwise (even personalities-wise... like, that is NOT Michelangelo!), despite what people keep enjoying saying.

*IndigoErth* · 09-25-2018, 02:03 PM

Yeah, but with comics, at least to some degree isn't part of the tone in how a reader decides to hear it? I mean, understandably a cartoon series probably can't go to some of the lengths the comics presumably did, leaves less up for interpretation being a cartoon and all, and have to keep it in the realm of being kid friendly and play to selling to a wider audience.

Maybe it's not just like the comics, but it's certainly the one I'd want another series modeled after. Though I'd gladly take a little more mature version that could be a bit more in tune with the tones of the comics.

Technogeek29 · 09-25-2018, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Why not? I would. 2K3 Turtles are pretty far removed from Mirage, tonally and otherwise (even personalities-wise... like, that is NOT Michelangelo!), despite what people keep enjoying saying.

Well there is one aspect of his character they showcase to the point of nausea

Vegeta · 09-26-2018, 03:26 PM

A bit odd to love the 2012 cartoon but despise fred wolf and the first film but welcome back buddy. Read some IDW, its awesome.

*Leo656* · 09-26-2018, 03:27 PM

I still love you, Zarius.

Stop watching "Smallville".

Kit31 · 09-28-2018, 09:46 PM

As much as I absolutely love the 2012 series, the 2003 series is a close second-place for me. It's a lot darker in tone than the 80's series. Don't let the "4kids" thing fool you. It has solid storylines, great action, lovable characters, and decent animation. As many have said, the first five seasons are really good. While I think Fast Forward and Back to the Sewer are entertaining enough, things changed drastically from the first five seasons.

*CyberCubed* · 09-28-2018, 10:34 PM

4kids is the name of the company, they're best known for dubbing Pokemon and other anime in the late 90's and early 2000's. 4kids worked with Peter Laird for the 2003 cartoon.

*Prowler* · 09-29-2018, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo656

I'unno. 4Kids/2003 is the only cartoon show they've had that doesn't annoy me too much after a few episodes. Then again, I didn't get up to the Fast Forward stuff. That's me, though.

I can appreciate the original as something that I loved as a kid, but it grates on me now after a bit. And the April/Donnie stuff really killed the Nick show for me, I couldn't keep watching after a point. So the 4Kids show wins by default. It's not perfect, but it's the closest so far to what I'd want to watch in a TMNT show.

I'unno.

Yeah, 4kids was a pretty solid cartoon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Utrommaniac

4Kid's TMNT is probably the only decent thing the company has ever turned out. There were some small things they stuck to that were typical for the company: the absolute no gray between good and evil, the origin of Leo badgering Karai because she's loyal to Shredder and that's not honorable and she should be a good guy!. Also the origin of Karai as Shredder's adoptive daughter, but not even a little vindictive and creepy.

Other than that, it almost feels like it was done by something different.

It had Casey grow the fvck up and get his act together. April wasn't the prize in a gross love triangle; she retains her "big sister" role. The two of them have great chemistry even when they're friends (making the TCRI break-in a whole new level of gold). It actually lets them build a romantic relationship like adults rather than cram it in because we need drama. Shredder had an element of danger that other versions hadn't reached and also didn't have an incel complex.

It's a pretty good show for at least the first four seasons. Just gotta get over the hoop that is the early 2000's idea of "cool".

But...IDW is still the one I recommend more. It actually is writing with much older audience in mind. The equal "PG-13" rating doesn't really mean it's geared toward teenage fans; it's very much for older fans.

Yeah the show kinda jumped the shark after season 4 and the Ninja Tribunal. But tbh we're lucky it got as many episodes as it did.I originally expected it to have 2-3 seasons max. Never thought it'd have surpassed the 100 episode mark.

The how holds up well in terms of animation and art, imo. The only thing that feels dated about it are the Guardians being an obvious reference/parody of The Matrix, which was a HUGE movie franchise at the time.

*Andrew NDB* · 09-29-2018, 02:58 AM

My strongest feelings about the 4Kids show are that I'm glad it exists as a counterpoint to everything else in the kiddy arena, and proof positive that we don't need Beebops and Krang and Pizza Throwers to sell to a generation of little kids. Basically validating everything Laird has believed since the beginning. Because he is right.

Additionally, that it's f***ed up (and yet quite telling of the agenda at hand) that it gets no love in larger media, like in any of 2012's million crossovers with Fred Wolf. I don't like it, but I feel like it is a far better face for children's gateway drug to TMNT than anything else. And it was, for a generation. When I was dating, I was tasked with acquiring various things related to this show for a young man who loved it.

Yeah, IDW has shown some love to it in their jambalaya pot, but Nick doesn't really heavily vet that beyond "No Turtles shedding blood or killing even though they're supposed to be ninjas? OK, cool."

09-25-2018, 01:09 AM	#1
tekering Mouser Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: Okayama, Japan Posts: 7	Back from a 30-year absence! Bear with me here, gentlemen: I’ve finally been approved to post on these forums, and I’ve got lots I want to say. I’m probably too old to be here. As a child of the seventies, my obsessions were Star Trek, Battlestar: Galactica, Star Blazers, The Black Hole and Star Wars… If it wasn’t space opera, it didn’t interest me. Certainly, nothing involving bad-ass martial arts on the gritty streets of New York would’ve caught my fancy then. However, by 1986, Transformers: The Movie had turned a children’s cartoon into something gritty and bad-ass, and James Cameron had proven that space opera could be gritty and bad-ass with Aliens. It was the right time for me to discover Eastman and Laird’s gritty and bad-ass Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and I still treasure those original issues today. By 1987, it had to be gritty and bad-ass to interest me at all, and Predator and RoboCop were exactly that. I remember reading the editorial in Mirage comics that TMNT was being produced as an animated series, and expectations were high; a gritty and bad-ass cartoon? This could be cooler than Galaxy Rangers! See where I’m going with this? Suffice it to say, I was appalled by TMNT ’87. The Turtles were cute, not cool. The humor was childish, the characters were shallow, the action was moronic, and Krang took the Utrom concept from the comics and shat all over it. I was disgusted. The merchandising, the toys, and the Jim Henson movies only made it worse, and I washed my hands of the whole franchise. I hated the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. So, for the last thirty years, I’ve ignored TMNT entirely. I never saw The Next Mutation, the 4Kids TV cartoon, the 2007 CGI movie, or the new live-action films, and I’d never even heard about the Nickelodeon series… not until a junior high student of mine showed me a clip on his iPad last month. “When I was your age, the Turtles were cool,” I started to tell him, like any cranky middle-aged man would talk to a teenager. “They ARE cool,” he insisted. “Just watch.” TMNT cartoons never felt right to me — and live-action TMNT never worked, either — but CGI is uniquely suited to the concept. The lighting is moody and evocative, the movement is dynamic and exciting, and the production design is simple but impeccably detailed at the same time. The quality of the animation amazed me — even surpassing Star Wars: Rebels — and the character designs are perfect. Finally, the Turtles are cute AND cool! I was hooked immediately. Still, I wasn’t prepared for the depth of characterization, the quality of the writing, the talents of the cast, or the spectacular action sequences. And the humor! This show has me laughing out loud every episode, something a TV series rarely ever manages to do. This show is so much fun to watch! So, over the past couple of weeks, I’ve shown it to any student, friend or colleague I can, and reactions have been enormously positive across the board. I’ve prepared class presentations about the evolution of the franchise, and solicited opinions from adults totally unfamiliar with TMNT. I’ve compared other film and TV adaptations, and found them all lacking (although the CGI film from 2007 was pretty good). I’ve also bought over two dozen action figures, and boy, are they a mixed bag…! Anyway, this show has made me a TMNT fan again, and I can’t wait to see more of the series. It disappoints me to know it’s already over — and even more disappointing to see what’s replaced it — but for now, I’m looking forward to enjoying the remaining hundred episodes or so. Honestly, I haven’t seen a cartoon this good since The Maxx. For those of you who enjoy it as much as I do, does anything else on American TV compare?

09-25-2018, 01:27 AM	#3
Powder So tired of this place Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Shell Ri La Posts: 26,813	Welcome to the boards. There are plenty of fans in your age bracket on & off the site, no worries! Anyway, all that you say of the 2012 series is true, it's definitely a standout iteration among the many that exist. Hopefully you enjoy the rest of it as much as you have what you've watched so far. Given what you grew up on, I should think you'll especially dig season 4's space arc. You probably get a kick out of the Star Trek parody series Leonardo watches, eh? To call this series' toyline a mixed bag is an understatement, there are probably more misses than hits, unfortunately. On the bright side, a set of adult collector aimed figures that are 100% screen accurate, fully articulated, & accompanied by a bevy of accessories were made. Look up "Revoltech TMNT". Living in Japan you should have a decent chance of getting a set as they were produced there & were recently re-released. As a fellow big-time Mirage fan I am shocked that you don't like the first Henson film. Aside from April being a reporter & The Foot a path for wayward youth, it adapts aspects of early issues quite faithfully. The cinematography & visual ambiance are stellar, characterization's spot on, it's easily the best TMNT movie. As for as other shows comparing to this one, I don't know of any. __________________ I'm convinced that none of you have ever experienced joy

09-25-2018, 01:46 AM	#4
Utrommaniac Resident overthinker Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: what is going on.......... Posts: 5,318	Yeah, you're definitely not the oldest person around here, there's plenty more in your age group...I am not one of them. There's plenty more in the Mirage run if you're interested since it carried on to the early 2000's. Just...tread lightly, it's a bit of a mess. The IDW comics are also pretty amazing if you enjoy the last show and Mirage, since for me it overcomes the weaknesses of both and relishes in their strengths. So if you're able to expand a little more, totally go for those. __________________ DeviantART

09-25-2018, 02:09 AM	#6
Utrommaniac Resident overthinker Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: what is going on.......... Posts: 5,318	Well, again...buckle up for Volume 4 when you get to it... Tales of the TMNT is easily Mirage's best, though. __________________ DeviantART

09-25-2018, 12:57 PM	#11
Longview01 Foot Soldier Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 201	You like the dark moody turtles yet ignored 2k3? __________________

09-25-2018, 01:20 AM	#2
newfan Mad Scientist Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: UK Posts: 2,393	Welcome to the drome! Always nice to see another fan of the last show, I came in to the franchise because of that one (but I have explored and appreciated other versions too) Enjoy the your time here.

09-25-2018, 12:09 PM	#10
IndigoErth Team Blue Boy Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: U.S., East Coast Posts: 15,260	Welcome, and welcome back! Nah, never too old, but I do envy your having been old enough to enjoy the original comics. (But not the feeling over the first cartoon like I kind of feel over the newest one. ) Yeah, Nickelodeon's first series was so well done and such a shame that it ended already. A good mixing of the serious and the silly. I wasn't away from TMNT as long (almost 19 years), but the 2012 series is likewise what also caught my eye and brought me back, too.

09-25-2018, 02:03 PM	#13
IndigoErth Team Blue Boy Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: U.S., East Coast Posts: 15,260	Yeah, but with comics, at least to some degree isn't part of the tone in how a reader decides to hear it? I mean, understandably a cartoon series probably can't go to some of the lengths the comics presumably did, leaves less up for interpretation being a cartoon and all, and have to keep it in the realm of being kid friendly and play to selling to a wider audience. Maybe it's not just like the comics, but it's certainly the one I'd want another series modeled after. Though I'd gladly take a little more mature version that could be a bit more in tune with the tones of the comics.

09-26-2018, 03:26 PM	#15
Vegeta Hench Mutant Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Chicago Posts: 397	A bit odd to love the 2012 cartoon but despise fred wolf and the first film but welcome back buddy. Read some IDW, its awesome. __________________

09-26-2018, 03:27 PM	#16
Leo656 The Franchise Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,696	I still love you, Zarius. Stop watching "Smallville". __________________ "I left some words quite far from here to be a short reminder... I laid them out in stone, in case they need to last forever..." "But hey... I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know." nWo Tech: The Official Thread Poison of the Technodrome Forums https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxr...awnHgDz1ceDcfA https://theroxxshow.blogspot.com/

09-28-2018, 09:46 PM	#17
Kit31 Foot Soldier Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Indiana Posts: 123	As much as I absolutely love the 2012 series, the 2003 series is a close second-place for me. It's a lot darker in tone than the 80's series. Don't let the "4kids" thing fool you. It has solid storylines, great action, lovable characters, and decent animation. As many have said, the first five seasons are really good. While I think Fast Forward and Back to the Sewer are entertaining enough, things changed drastically from the first five seasons.

09-28-2018, 10:34 PM	#18
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 41,087	4kids is the name of the company, they're best known for dubbing Pokemon and other anime in the late 90's and early 2000's. 4kids worked with Peter Laird for the 2003 cartoon.

09-29-2018, 02:58 AM	#20
Andrew NDB Weed Whacker Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Auburn, WA Posts: 29,309	My strongest feelings about the 4Kids show are that I'm glad it exists as a counterpoint to everything else in the kiddy arena, and proof positive that we don't need Beebops and Krang and Pizza Throwers to sell to a generation of little kids. Basically validating everything Laird has believed since the beginning. Because he is right. Additionally, that it's f***ed up (and yet quite telling of the agenda at hand) that it gets no love in larger media, like in any of 2012's million crossovers with Fred Wolf. I don't like it, but I feel like it is a far better face for children's gateway drug to TMNT than anything else. And it was, for a generation. When I was dating, I was tasked with acquiring various things related to this show for a young man who loved it. Yeah, IDW has shown some love to it in their jambalaya pot, but Nick doesn't really heavily vet that beyond "No Turtles shedding blood or killing even though they're supposed to be ninjas? OK, cool." __________________ [ ODYSSEY \| ORIGIN \| THE IMAGE/VOL. 3 CONCLUSION \| THE SHELLSHOCKED PODCAST \| ON FACEBOOK ]