Pro Wrestling Discussion

[ZariusTwo]

Royal Rumble results

Spoiler:

WWE Champion AJ Styles defeated Kevin Owens and Sami Zayn

Smackdown Tag Team Champions The Usos defeated Shelton Benjamen and Chad Gable

Shinsuke Nakimura won the 30-man royal rumble

The Bar defeated RAW Tag Team Champions Seth Rollins and Jason Jordan

Universal Champion Brock Lesnar defeated Kane and Braun Strawman

Asuka won the 30-women Royal Rumble

And my thoughts

Spoiler:

Did'nt quite get the point of Sami replacing Ty, unless it's to elevate Ty in grudge matches and give Sami and Kevin something to do out of the title picture
-Slater's little story arc had a brilliant pay-off that also protected Sheamus and his troubled neck and back problems
-Man, Hurricane's let himself go
-Man, Aiden is over.
-Cena did a great job heeling it up slightly with Roman, they both looked way more natural in that role with the dominant vets vs underdog story. Glad Nakurmura got to eliminate the pair of them. Just as Cena has rotten luck at Summerslam most of the time, the Rumble is most definitely not Roman's PPV.

[ZariusTwo]

Jonathan Coachman is back full time with WWE and will be part of the RAW commentary team, replacing Booker T

http://www.wwe.com/shows/raw/2018-01...?sf180583368=1

[ZariusTwo]

The Dudleyz will be inducted into the Hall of Fame

http://www.wwe.com/shows/wwe-hall-of...?sf180602040=1

[XERO]

I enjoyed the Rumble. Didn't really enjoy Ronda making her debut afterwards and taking the landmark off of the first ever women's Rumble. I get why they did that, but they should've saved that for tonight instead. Banks vs Asuka could've been the main event tonight, easy. But it's whatever.

I'll see what happens on SmackDown tomorrow.

[ZariusTwo]

Cena beats Finn




00:12

[Autbot_Benz]

Jeremy Borash left Impact and is now with WWE. He was a day 1 guy with Impact. I never thought id hear those words

http://nodq.com/news/519329188.shtml

[sdp]

Watched the rumble, mostly only the rumble matches. The men's rumble was pretty good, women's Rumble errr... it really shouldn't have been the main event. I realize they want to give the spotlight to women but it was just a poor choice and left you feeling the PPV without as much hype as the men's did.

I had really high hopes for the women's royal rumble and it wasn't all bad, I just don't think they had 30 great women wrestlers to make it an equivalent to the men's. If it had been a 15 woman or even 20 I think it would've worked much better. Baby steps. I don't watch that much wrestling, mostly only during the time of Wrestlemania hype so it was only last year that I started to see some of the "woman's revolution" mostly NXT matches and I loved it, gone were the crappy evening gown matches of just pulling each others hair for the title.

But now that I'm checking it out it's really disappointing and mostly a gimmick to capitalize on the trend. First ever hell in a cell/elimination chamber/iron man match? So, having gimmick matches is a revolution? Those gimmick matches don't even work very well, money in the bank I haven't seen but I can see that one being fun if they can handle ladders, Lita used to be great at it but unsure if the current roster can.

As far as the woman's roster, is it really all that different from past rosters? I was always mad because the WWF/WWE always had good women wrestlers but they were forced to compete with the models and lose to them and lower their skill level for something their opponents could. But I saw more of the same here, some skilled women having to interact with models, so while the models might be getting less screen time by having both it's kind of hurting their message.

As far as the returning divas: Jacqueline can still surprise, Lita was such a disappointment, she just couldn't do the things she was able to or keep up, I'm guessing the more conservative attire meant she's just not in shape. Trish was in great shape and did a good job but man is her face ghastly she's one of the few models that was able to transition as a wrestler ok even if not deserving of her hype, mickie james should be wearing a more conservative attire but she could hold on just fine, VIcky? Why? Torrie Wilson I remember never respecting but she looked in better wrestling shape and skill level than she ever was while working there. Molly Holly did a good job, Beth Phoenix looked out of shape but she did steal the spot of lifting the big girl.

No Tori? Ivory? they were always great wrestlers and deserved to be there rather than some of the other models. Same with Candice Michelle and Victoria who transitioned fine from models to wrestlers like Trish.

I was happy with both rumble winners and disappointed that the show finished with Ronda pointing to Wrestlemania to basically guarantee the titleshot at wrestlemania. I always found it so cheap, especially when done at the Rumble. You have these people who went through hell to win it and just someone randomly comes in points to it and gets a shot. Ronda was never good, all hype, shouldn't be in WWE, Shamrock and Lesnar may've lost but they were once respected chapions. Ronda was only ever fed easy opponents and she believed her hype.

[The Deadman]

1. They've done a womens Money in the Bank match back in the summer, Carmella is the current case holder.

2. It's definitely different than it was 10 years ago. Most of the women on the roster were either from the indies or were trained before being signed by WWE. There's like 2 or 3 actual model turned wrestlers in the division now.

[dl316bh]

Watched the Rumble. For once... it was actually quite good. The Mens Rumble was pretty smartly booked, with a couple head scratching moments, but the finish made up for any trouble. WWE is really frustrating, sometimes, because you get semi-frequent glimpses that they absolutely know what they're doing and they're the best at this pro wrestling thing, they just let laziness get the better of them, or McMahons crazed last minute script changes blow it. Deep down, they know when it comes to Roman and his reception and they know how to use it to further what they want. See last year, then they used his near pariah status to smooth over a Randy Orton win that would have otherwise gone over poorly in the moment. This year, they used Roman Reigns in the final two to make everything in the finishing sprint feel like it mattered, like the end of the world, in a way only the best Rumbles end. It made Shinsuke winning feel that much sweeter.

The womens Rumble was a bit rougher, but still put together decently. It had quite a few legends involved, but that wasn't a bad thing. Quite a few of them managed to hang. Especially MOLLY GODDAMN HOLLY. She looked FANTASTIC. Lita got in her s*** and, moonsault she barely cleared aside, looked alright (she was important to pre-revolution womens wrestling, but was never really great as a wrestler, IMO, but it's important to have her there). But again, we come down to the finishing sprint, which is again where the match nails it. Nikki's reputations improved a bit over the years since she's put in work, but the Bellas are still very much associated with the pre-revolution era of Divas wrestling and WWE knows it. So they play off it. It's, once more, the WWE corporately made product versus the star everyone likes. The two dump Sasha, then Nikki brings it down to just her and Asuka. Like Roman - or Cena, before he was eliminated - you know damn well WWE could easily, and would love to, make her the winner. So everything has stakes and impact. Then they're both on the apron and every move feels like it could knock them off. Asuka kicks Nikki's legs out and wins the match. Perfect. I'd argue the finishing sprint actually carried the first womens Rumble up a few notches in quality.

Goes to show you, the finishing sprint and the match winner can do a lot for the Rumble overall. Bad finishing sprint or bad winner? It's not going to be well liked. No one really remembers '09 for that reason and the 2014 and 2015 Rumbles died a hard death based not just on the finish (ESPECIALLY 2015) but the winner. But everyone remembers '07, when it came down to Undertaker and Shawn Michaels and they wrestled almost a full match before it ended.

It's what makes the bad worse, really. They know better, they know how to do it, but they don't always use that. But hey, this year, they did well for themselves.

As a side note, how cool is it that the men and womens Rumble this year was won by two big Japanese stars? WWE's still far, far from perfect with racial stuff - it wasn't that long ago we had an angle where Sheamus stole Del Rios car, talked about eating burritos and taking a dump in it - but we're a long way from Kai En Tai's numerous indignities, Jimmy Wang Yang and the like.

The rest of the card didn't really live up though, sadly. The WWE title match was alright, but it's still caught up in McMahon s***. Hopefully with Shinsuke the winner and the lead-up to Nak vs Styles on the horizon, we move on from that. The SDL tag title match disappointed; I like the idea of two straight fall matches, but the second came so damn quick, it felt weird and deflating. The Raw tag was mostly to get the titles on the Bar because Jordan's dealing with something. The Universal title match was fun, especially because Brock and Braun couldn't stop hitting each other for real - just make them the Wrestlemania match already - but ended about as we expected without a particularly fun finish, which dulled it a bit.

Still, the Rumble is what you come to see, so if it's good - especially now that there are two - it can carry a weak card.

The men's rumble was pretty good, women's Rumble errr... it really shouldn't have been the main event. I realize they want to give the spotlight to women but it was just a poor choice and left you feeling the PPV without as much hype as the men's did.

I think it main evented mainly because they wanted Ronda appearing to be the closing image of the show. I can otherwise agree, though. Not slighting the womens Rumble, which was fun, but they really ought to have closed with the mens for pacing reasons. The final four sprint to the end was the most emotionally charged thing on the show and Nak winning was the biggest feel good moment of it. After that, the people in the arena - and probably at home - are a bit drained and were out of it for the next couple matches. It still worked out fine, as there were other matches to buffer the two rumbles, they used the Raw tag match to help cool down - it was more a means to an end anyway - so people were down to clown again by the time of the womens Rumble, but sometimes, you gotta end on what you know is going to be the big emotional high point.

See also an example that went far worse, Wrestlemania 25; HBK/Taker was so, so good and had people so into it that when it was over, they were done and the WWE title match died a hard death. No surprise HBK/Taker II closed the next year.

I had really high hopes for the women's royal rumble and it wasn't all bad, I just don't think they had 30 great women wrestlers to make it an equivalent to the men's.

I think they were going for a way to show where the women have been and how much they've progressed, which isn't a terrible tack to take for your first Womens Rumble. I don't think you'll see as many old timers going forward. Maybe Trish, but I don't think it'll be the heavy legend use of this year. I think all that mainly because they could have easily cut down some of the legends and filled out with some more NXT ladies and I think next year that'll be what it is.

First ever hell in a cell/elimination chamber/iron man match? So, having gimmick matches is a revolution?

It's mainly because, before the current product, women weren't allowed/booked to do any of those matches. They just did singles or tags. Specialty matches were the domain of the men, especially the punishing ones like Hell in a Cell or the Chamber. So now that they're moving forward with serious womens wrestling, they're opening the doors to that stuff.

It's a little off-putting how much WWE pat themselves on the back about it, sometimes... but I guess that's just WWE. They want the praise for finally taking all this seriously.

money in the bank I haven't seen but I can see that one being fun if they can handle ladders, Lita used to be great at it but unsure if the current roster can.

I thought they did fine for their first time, finish aside. I think the women will refine it going forward, much like the mens MitB did over time. Hopefully next time they'll pick a better winner, though.

[AT-Man]

Finally a satisfying (men's) Royal Rumble! Roman will probably forever more be the last man to be eliminated, unless he wins. Either a massive pop or massive boos.

I wish the women's Rumble had been more... rumbly. They got eliminated too quickly and didn't get a nice clusterf*ck going on.



NAKAMURA!

[MikeandRaph87]

I watched the Roman Reigns vs The Miz segment of RAW last night that stated that Roman lasted 21 minutes and eliminated Seth Rollins while being the second to last in the ring overall. Is there any animosity between Seth and Roman or is something they shrug off and keep going?

The Miz vs Braun Strowman at Wrestlemania? Could The Miz actually win something like that without any stooge interference? Seriously doubt it. The cheating to win thing though for me takes away from the wrestlers' ability to succeed. It would be cool if actually could like Strowman or not.

Was Rousey brought in to make up for the sudden permanent loss of Paige as soon as she returned or was it already planned regardless? Speaking of permant loss, why is Sheamus still going at it? I thought he had permanent damage and was forced to hang it up?

[dl316bh]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

I watched the Roman Reigns vs The Miz segment of RAW last night that stated that Roman lasted 21 minutes and eliminated Seth Rollins while being the second to last in the ring overall. Is there any animosity between Seth and Roman or is something they shrug off and keep going?

Seth smiled at ringside and nodded his head while Roman looked on, shrugging, like Seth was going "alright, you got me, I know the rules, it's fine". This is typical for Rumble "betrayals". In kayfabe, they all know what's at stake and usually don't take it personally. Plenty of teams face off in the ring and suffer nothing outside the ring. Hell, Demolition opened a Rumble scrapping with each other once and the Hardy's wrestled each other when it was down to the two of them in the ring one year.

The Miz vs Braun Strowman at Wrestlemania? Could The Miz actually win something like that without any stooge interference? Seriously doubt it. The cheating to win thing though for me takes away from the wrestlers' ability to succeed. It would be cool if actually could like Strowman or not.

Nah, assuming that's the plan - and there's no reason not to think it is, as much as I'd want a rematch between Braun and Brock at 'Mania to fulfill the potential and with Braun going over this time, it ain't happening, Roman's getting that - Miz is dead. To be fair, there was set-up before and Braun just got sidetracked because of Kane. So some of the work building it's already done. If the Universal title scene is going to be busy with Roman, it makes sense to give Braun his first singles title and let him run roughshod for a good while with the IC belt. Miz will get it back eventually - I'm pretty sure that, long term, they want him to at least match Jerichos nine IC title reigns and end up the longest reigning IC champ cumulatively - and is probably Smackdown bound after 'Mania anyway.

Was Rousey brought in to make up for the sudden permanent loss of Paige as soon as she returned or was it already planned regardless? Speaking of permant loss, why is Sheamus still going at it? I thought he had permanent damage and was forced to hang it up?

Rousey was expected for a long time. Even back when she was still fighting she'd been hinting at wanting to transition to wrestling when that was over. The timing is coincidental (and as far as Paige goes, I'm starting to wonder if she's even actually done, as WWE seems to have pulled back on "she'll never wrestle again" like they're keeping their options open, so maybe it turned out to not be as bad as they initially thought).

As for Sheamus, he has revealed that yeah, he's got the injuries that forced Edge to retire and he's going to have to hang it up in the next couple years, but I guess he's still got some time left in the tank before he absolutely has to walk. I believe Jason Jordan has an injury of some sort, so it came down to the Bar taking the tag straps for now. I imagine they're losing them at 'Mania, though, and Sheamus will take the time off he'd been talking about before to try and recuperate. Maybe another multi-team match like last year to get them on, I don't know, Revival without having to do a straight heel vs heel tag match.

[XERO]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

I watched the Roman Reigns vs The Miz segment of RAW last night that stated that Roman lasted 21 minutes and eliminated Seth Rollins while being the second to last in the ring overall. Is there any animosity between Seth and Roman or is something they shrug off and keep going?

Nah, they're fine. Even Dean and Roman fought each other in the WWE Title finals a few years back. They're still cool with each other.

At least until Dean returns from injury. I think he's gonna finally go heel.

[The Deadman]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

I watched the Roman Reigns vs The Miz segment of RAW last night that stated that Roman lasted 21 minutes and eliminated Seth Rollins while being the second to last in the ring overall. Is there any animosity between Seth and Roman or is something they shrug off and keep going?

The Royal Rumble is every man for themself so it's nothing.

[MikeandRaph87]

I was not sure since it set the stage for Undertaker vs Roman Reigns last year and sparked other rivalries in the past. The root my question is, the frustration of injuries effecting the The Shield not to really reunite for more than a month. I know the long held rumor about Dean turning on Seth this time, but was hoping it would be granted a push back to get more than The Shield vs The New Day.


This is too funny,a step-grandmother ran into Bray Wyatt while looking for his action figure.
https://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/20...-action-figure

[Krutch]

Anyone else bothered by the inherent conundrum of bringing in UFC competitors as beasts to the WWE? I mean, I know we live in an age where kayfabe is dead and everyone knows WWE is predetermined, but... From a business standpoint, I feel like no matter what you do, you shoot yourself in the foot.

Bring in "legitimate UFC fighter" and hype them up, then they lay waste to most of the roster... which effectively says UFC is better than WWE.

Or...

Bring in "legitimate UFC fighter" and job them out, which makes the WWE guys look stronger... which basically kills your return on investment for bringing them over in the first place.

I dunno. Just a thought I had. Thought I'd share.

[dl316bh]

I understand the concern and feel it sometimes in regards to that. I keep up with what Impact does through reports and reviews out of curiosity and they've been stumbling a lot with that. They have/had a stable of MMA guys surrounding Lashley that just kind of ran roughshod. I guess Moose was feuding with them for a while but got his ass kicked every time until the end when he finally beat Lashley. But the kicker is how the wrestling guys reacted, kind of admitting MMA is better - which, why, you're a wrestling program - and the MMA group just s***s on wrestling with no consequences while winning all the time. If a company screws up it's just real bad.

But in practice I think it depends a lot on how it's handled. WWE's had some MMA guys before and it's gone fine. Ken Shamrock had a respectable midcard career and wasn't unbeatable, though you could say that was before MMA "caught". Shayna Blaszer's an MMA person and they book her strong, but not unbeatable (Kairi Sane pinned her to win the Mae Young Classic and Ember Moon had a successful title defense). Brocks the obvious pick for "he comes in and wrecks everyone" but aside from his immediate return I don't think they've overused the MMA stuff. It also has the weight of Brock having been there before MMA and wrecking shop, so he's still a wrestling guy, he just went to MMA.

They're going to have to take care with Rousey though for reasons you've said. I think they have a bit of a boon though in that they have a Ronda that's lost in MMA twice to end her career. Some people will roll their eyes at wrestling no matter what, but at least with her no longer having the invincible aura of her undefeated days they won't roll eyes for WWE having Ronda lose a match when she didn't in MMA. If Ronda retired undefeated and made the jump, then they'd have some new issues to deal with.

[Krutch]

All good points.

[The Deadman]

Rey Mysterio vs. Jushin Liger Set for NJPW Strong Style Evolved Next Month

WWE is planning Alexa vs Nia for the Raw Women's Title at Mania

So either Asuka is losing, or Asuka chooses Charlotte after the PPV.

[dl316bh]

Originally Posted by The Deadman

Rey Mysterio vs. Jushin Liger Set for NJPW Strong Style Evolved Next Month

WWE is planning Alexa vs Nia for the Raw Women's Title at Mania

So either Asuka is losing, or Asuka chooses Charlotte after the PPV.

Asuka's in a title match regardless. The match at Elimination Chamber is for whether Nia Jax is in a triple threat at 'Mania. So assuming this is correct, Asuka's probably jumping to Smackdown to challenge Charlotte. Which would actually make sense. The past few weeks have been spent with Asuka defeating all the heavies of the Raw division on the way to 'Mania. So it would make some sense - and be pretty in character - for her to "want a real challenge" and go for the queen, plus it's fresh matches with that division. Which leaves Nia to go after Alexa, paying off that angle they've had come and go over the year.

Asuka's probably winning at Elimination Chamber though. If they throw all this build with her being undefeated away THERE, instead of paying off with a big win for someone, probably Ember Moon when she moves up - I won't be surprised if she drops the NXT title soon - they're colossal morons. They've kept her undefeated for over two years.