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02-14-2018, 06:23 AM | #1 |
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Comicsgate
Yeah, I know I know, this thread is "stirring the pot", only no, it's not. I'm shocked at what I'm reading on Twitter.
Guess I've been out of the loop. I've been reading tweets from both sides, and I'm stunned by the ferocity and hatred. Creators and "fans" are at each others throats, with black lists and secret groups and mantras like #movetheneedle. What happened? How did this happen? WHY is this happening? Trying to get a better handle on where all the hate stems from, maybe people can talk out their positions here, without getting into blowouts. The comics community is in trouble. BIG trouble. |
02-14-2018, 07:23 AM | #2 | ||
PerfectlyTunedFightEngine
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Like all things ending in the suffix -gate, it's just unbridled entitlement.
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02-14-2018, 08:46 AM | #3 |
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Is it? I don't understand the hate. i just don't. Where does all of this come from? Why are guys like Vegital-san and Sumac so angry? They seem to be part of a growing wave of hatred for women, and the LGBTQ community.
Guy's? Real talk. Why so much anger? I really don't think you need a dick to play ghostbuster, do you? It don't make sense. |
02-14-2018, 12:21 PM | #4 | |
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That said though, I'd rather new inclusions (awesome ones) vs gender swaps. (i.e. Next generation of Ghostbusters vs reboot.) |
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02-14-2018, 12:40 PM | #5 | ||
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02-14-2018, 12:49 PM | #6 | |||
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There were tricks the industry used in the past that aren't working the same way they did before, because the market has changed. The fanbase has changed. All of those things are good things, but the growing pains are very real and very noticeable.
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02-14-2018, 01:24 PM | #7 | |
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I don't hate women and LGBT, only small subsets of the latter who are attacking women and generally act like religious zealots. As for comic books - receipt for success and to calm down fragile "progressives": create new characters, instead of replacing old one for "token minority of the year" and find good writers to write compelling POC / LGBT characters, not ham-fisted parodies with horrible dialogue and the like. |
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02-14-2018, 01:40 PM | #8 |
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And we were doing so well.
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02-14-2018, 02:01 PM | #9 | |
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Hey man, you started the thread.
I left Twitter for the most part about 6 months ago and stopped following the geek news sites. So I haven't really been privy to this until the last week or so. Instead of reading about the comics industry, I've just been (gasp!) reading comics. I particularly like the current Mister Miracle series.
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02-14-2018, 09:41 AM | #10 |
Overlord
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Peopel write crappy SJW comics. Customers get mad. Creators tell customers they're pixels that don't matter. Customers revolt.
Customers are always right in the end. |
02-14-2018, 11:23 AM | #11 | |
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I really don't get it. Can you give an example of why you think a comic is crappy? |
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02-14-2018, 12:19 PM | #12 | ||
Stone Warrior
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I assume we're talking about Marvel? They're generally not crappy, people just paint them that way because they don't like what's going on for other reasons I won't mention. The problem, I think, is Marvel deciding it would be a totally rad idea to replace f***in' everybody at near the same time.
To run it down, at the moment, the list of the replaced are, off the top of my head, so it's not complete: Iron Man, Thor, Ghost Rider (though, to be fair, Ghost Rider changes hosts like we change underwear), Hulk, Wolverine and until recently Captain America. Marvel's always had the catchphrase of being the "House of Ideas" but in the past two years it's felt like they're the house of "one idea". The replacement storyline. I like that in spurts - it's aged and long as hell, but I still get a kick out of Knightfall and Superior Spider-Man is probably in my top five favorite Spider-Man runs/series - but not all at once. They don't have the excuse of "legacy" and "passing down" DC used to use. Though I've always liked Amadeus Cho and enjoy his antics as Hulk, from what I've read, more than a lot of Banners, so that was always fine with me. There's also a dearth of big name writers there, these days. A lot of the big names they had propping themselves up for years and directing the universe - Fraction, Hickman, Brubaker, etc. - packed bags and left for creator owned. Hell, Bendis just left. They've got Jason Aaron and their stalwart mid range names like Pak and Waid and that's about it right now. So interest's kinda waned. Quote:
Not to say some creators can't just be @$$holes, though, but you either take it and enjoy their work or leave it. Quote:
Captain America and Hitler punchin' was a couple of Jewish mens reaction to a war America wasn't even in yet and seemed like it wanted to stay out of. I'd agree with you and go so far as to say it's in the very DNA of comics.
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02-14-2018, 02:28 PM | #13 | |
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I want more original heroes. I on't want a black batman, I want an original black superhero, that is better than using a hero's name to sell a new character. Like I get that a previously established title would have a better chance to sell then a new ip. I'm not mad that they do this, I just wish we were in a position to do it better. Granted, I'm a huge manga reader. So literally about everything I have read stars non-white people so the race thing is a mute point.
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02-14-2018, 11:29 AM | #14 | |
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All I care about is having decent comics to read every month, and the only Marvel series I followed last year was unceremoniously cancelled in the wake of all this. The LCS in my neighborhood also closed due to the sales slump.
Why do people feel such a to politicize every aspect of the comics industry today?
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02-14-2018, 11:47 AM | #15 | |
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What was the book that was cancelled? |
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02-14-2018, 11:39 AM | #16 |
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Superman beat up corrupt people, punched Hitler and kicked KKK's ass. Captain America punched Hitler, abandoned his America moniker and became Nomad when he was disillusioned with the US government. Kirby was ready to fistfight bigots who took offense when he drew Cap kicking Nazi ass. Black Panther writer was nagged by editorial to include more people which resulted into the Black Panther vs. the Klan arc. Most of Gerber's work.
Superhero comics have always been about politics and especially about social justice. And that bother bigots who now have a more vocal medium to whine on compared to a pre-twitter age where hatemail would either be trashed or get a snark Stan Lee reply in the letter column. |
02-14-2018, 11:44 AM | #17 | ||
PerfectlyTunedFightEngine
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Then there's the entire run of the X-Men and their various spin-off titles.
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02-14-2018, 11:47 AM | #18 |
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Or the Batman comics, which tell us that the rich are better than us at everything and we should just punch mentally ill people well.
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02-14-2018, 12:04 PM | #19 | |
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I understand the arguments about the political basis behind some of those classic arcs and such, but those were competently told stories by creators who valued their craft as a means of direct cultural discourse. They believed in the intellect of their audience and the possibility of persuading them towards a more tolerant attitude, rather than talking down to them about what terrible racists/sexists/homophobes they are.
Also, there's a big difference between a snarky letters page reply and the pure autism that manifests on people's Twitter feeds--for both creators and the fans.
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02-14-2018, 12:09 PM | #20 |
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Last edited by TurtleWA; 02-14-2018 at 12:16 PM. |
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