Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Vol. 4 #22

[ZariusTwo]

Cut back on the alcahol Leo

I take personal gratification in knowing that I have two MIRAGE publications to read, one to give me new adventures every so often, and one with an arc that is presently enthralling me with how long it will be, if it loses money, so what? The guys' got a f*cking animated series, a toyline, and a movie backing him up, hes' counting his cash, and telling stories in the original comic that time and constraint did'nt allow him to do when he and Kevin only had ONE issue to handle after the initital Tales folded, they clawed and crafted an empire on thier backs, and now that one of them gives you a secondary door whilst he decorates his original homested with twists, turns, and new paths, you STILL spit on him?

If I had a word to describe Laird bashers, I'd settle on around three, "Brats" "Spoiled", "Rotten"

You've got Tales, READ it, you've got the animated series, in ANY form, repeats, downloads, DVDs, etc, WATCH them, and let people with more paitence than you read Volume Four with absoulute sense of appreciation of what we presently have.

[stonetemplepilot]

I don't think you're looking at his post the way it's intended to be looked at. While everyone is no doubt gratefull that we have everything we have, and I'm sure Laird is as well, the point as far as I can gather, is that while the writing has been of quite a good level, a number of fans are disappointed with Laird pretty much telling us that he's pretty much throwing away/excluding excellent stories from continuity and basically making it "my way or the highway". No one's spitting on him! You want to see fans spitting on writers go to the Newsarama boards, go to the Ghostbusters boards and see the reaction to that comic!
And to clear something up, he's not writing the stories he wanted to tell back in the day, sure, there may be influences, but he said it himself in the early days of Vol. 4 that he's got a very rough idea as to what will happen (being the Utrom's revealing themselves) and from there it was a matter of 'seeing where things go'.
And just another small thing, what good are the animated series, the figures, the whatever else to someone who only reads the comics or someone who just wants the continuity of the comic universe?
People react to big things like this in different ways, and I've used the examples of Jason Todd and the Scarlett Witch to illustrate this. While the idea is intriguing, April not being real (imagine if this kind of stunt was pulled over at Marvel with someone like Mary Jane, imagine the number of people who'd drop it!) it pushes that suspension of disbelief further and further, which Laird has managed to balance out fairly well.
Also if you look at the back issues, Eastman and Laird had little to do with the Turtles after the death of the Shredder up until City at War. Tales was the work of Ryan Brown and Jim Lawson exclusively, Vol. 2 was mainly Lawson and Talbot, 3 had nothing to do with any of them, and some of the other side stories were Kevin Eastman. Eastman and Laird were co-owners of the rights and characters up until the demise of Next Mutation. All Laird did in terms of the comic up until 4 was give stories the thumbs up or down basically. He approved what was and wasnt fly.
And before you go labelling Laird bashers as spoiled rotten brats, take another look at WHAT and WHY the fans are bashing him. I've got to admit, even though I'm not all that against what's going on in the comics (sure I'd PREFER other directions, but we have what we have and i'm gonna see where it goes), some of his letter responses are pretty surprising, and the backlash against them isn't.

[stonetemplepilot]

Also, if it loses money, so what right? It gets canned, that's what.

[Raph's Girl]

First off I'd like to say that yes I think the storyline is rather slow. I wish the guys weren't seperated in the comic. But perhaps the storyline seems slow because it's a bi-monthly comic. IMO it should be a monthly like what Tales is now.

But anyways.... eww...April was a roach and she mated with other roaches!! Gross!!

Anyways.... well now we know the rest of the story.... the origin of Kirby's pencil. Always wondered where it came from...and now we know... an auction.

April being a drawing... a manifestation of the thoughts and ideals of what her parents thought a baby should look like is rather interesting. April is a thought. No more, no less....She has emotions, she can love, she just can't have any kids. Not unless they find another crystal anyways. Perhaps one day April will find her "sisters"....Perhaps they were some of the people Kirby and Don met? Perhaps all of those people in that world were what April is....creations of an artist with a magical crystal.

Wasn't there a movie about an artist who's creations came to life???

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by stonetemplepilot

And to clear something up, he's not writing the stories he wanted to tell back in the day, sure, there may be influences, but he said it himself in the early days of Vol. 4 that he's got a very rough idea as to what will happen (being the Utrom's revealing themselves) and from there it was a matter of 'seeing where things go'.

In other words, a reallistic approach, treating the world of the TMNT in a very new way, it seems pretty coherant with the way he's telling it, individual stories all taking them in directions that seem epic in execution, and well paced to keep you reading, what I current get from the hostility is'nt concern, it's apparent boredom and impaitence with the way the story is advancing, and this little complaint about Lairds' "hyporcrisy" in not telling the stories he wanted to write, how do you know this was'nt something he wanted to write? What if he and Kevin kept it from the fans on the pure magnitude of how many shocks it contained, or that Laird wanted to write it, but Kevin disagreed with it?

And just another small thing, what good are the animated series, the figures, the whatever else to someone who only reads the comics or someone who just wants the continuity of the comic universe?

Read Tales of the TMNT.

Also if you look at the back issues, Eastman and Laird had little to do with the Turtles after the death of the Shredder up until City at War. Tales was the work of Ryan Brown and Jim Lawson exclusively, Vol. 2 was mainly Lawson and Talbot, 3 had nothing to do with any of them, and some of the other side stories were Kevin Eastman. Eastman and Laird were co-owners of the rights and characters up until the demise of Next Mutation. All Laird did in terms of the comic up until 4 was give stories the thumbs up or down basically. He approved what was and wasnt fly.

I know that, but the reason they left the comic behind was to expand the franchise, help get the cartoon rolling if not neccersarily associate themselves with it entirly, get the movie produced, they had work beyond it, hence the point of "crafting an empire on thier backs" still stands.

Originally Posted by stonetemplepilot

Also, if it loses money, so what right? It gets canned, that's what.

if it loses money, so what? The guys' got an animated series, a toyline, and a movie backing him up

Regardless of fan opinion, the fourth volume is'nt that essential at this present time. Relax.

[R-iZZy]

One thing I can surely agree on is Peter Laird has and extremely immature, rude and narrowminded approach to discussing differences with the very people that made him rich in his Turtle Tracks. I mean, okay, so you believe you've put out work and they made you rich for it, that's fair exchange? I can't stand how Laird puts off everyone for not agreeing with his approach to things, and if I could pull a Laird here: I'd call him "moronic" (or "idiotic", you take your pick).

April's character has now gone to total sh*t, now that we know she is a f*cking drawing. And I hear those that think we should accept it and be happy... but this angle was just poorly executed, not to mention the direction of April coming from the crystal that Kirby used in Donatello's one-shot issue was just terrible!

We were used to the idea of April being human, just as we were used to Oroku Saki being human (look at the immediate response from the new series when we discovered that Saki was an utrom). The idea was terrible, the "secret origin of April" was totally unnecessary, it was just a terrible attempt at a good twist.

Disappointed, yes... but what can you do? I don't want Laird's comics to run out of funds from his supporters, but a part of me wants it to happen, just so Laird can understand that he doesn't make a comic successful, but supporters do. His "my way or the highway" approach sucks, and he's handled this franchise terribly. I'm starting to understand how Eastman and Laird argued a lot, it was probably because Laird pitched bullsh*t ideas, like this, and Eastman, the level-headed one, had to fight them off for the sake of the fans that made them rich.

Whatever... all I can say is I'll just be waiting for the next issue. Perhaps, down the line, Laird can pull a Dallas off and have April see this as just one stupid dream.

[twopinacoladas]

Leo656, I have to agree with lots of what you said and I thought it was ironic that he said that about George Lucas and his Star Wars films (though I am not a fan of them and have seen some of them on TV before and seemed decent).

Anyway with that in mind Star Wars isn't what he had hoped it to be and I can somewhat say that about VOl 4, I got on late I started collecting about issue 11 or so and got all the back issues from Mirage. I did enjoy them and still am to some extent it is much slower then other comics and you hardly know when they are coming out as they are not on Diamonds list 80% of the time, not to mention they dont come out the month it says on the book...

With that aside I have liked Vol 4 maybe not as much as the first say 1-15 issues plus Return To NY and City at war along with the issues of the original Tales of the TMNT that I have managed to find.

This issue #22 I wasn't sure what to make of it, it seemed unnessecary its like in Amazing Spider-man going back and saying that Gwen was a slut and screwed Norman Osborn and created Super Kids that grow at a rapid speed... I was able to enjoy that arc to a point but it seemed wrong to do that to the character after shes been dead for how many years.

There are few characters in the TMNT universe that are actually real people to the turtles actual human beings. Casey and April were always the turtles human friends, I always thought of the TMNT in the real world it takes place in Manhattan New York City I dont mind time travel and parallel demsions or traveling through space to different planets its all pretty cool.

I see his vision for the TMNT and its not bad, Utroms coming to earth and allowing beings to vacation on distant planets is a neat idea but its not really what I would have liked to have seen but is still enjoyable.

Tales is good its more classic TMNT where they are not able to walk the streets or go into a bar for a few beer and just to be thought of as an alien visiting earth.

This book (Vol 4) could have been really awesome, I say its good but could have been much better. I will say that I think part of it and its pretty obvious that it is a bige part of it is that Kevin Eastman is not in the book at all, I used to think that they were equal partners and that it was 50/50 but I read Kevin Eastmans Artobiography and found out that he did basically all the page layouts and that they would pencil and ink 50/50 based on his stuff.

The layouts are mostly all identical to the finished pages, so it makes me wish that Mr. Eastman would be involved in a TMNT book which will probably never happen. Actually Mr. Laird did TMNT #2's layouts I believe; but it seems to me it was a collaberation on story and I see it a little bit more of Eastmans vision as for the look and layout. But the storys I am sure were 50/50 and thats whats lost in this new book some one to say; "no how about we dont go that far, how about we do this and take some of those ideas and rework them like this"

I read on the Heavy Metal website forums Keving posted about TMNT the new movie, and he was working with Imigi (sp) on some Heavy Metal projects and they asked him about doing a TMNT movie. Kevin sent them to Mirage and Peter who had been looking for someone to do the movie with; Kevin said he had not got a thank you from Peter yet and that he guessed when he gets his queque from being one of the creators from Pete that will be thanks enough. I guess he still gets royaltys but has no creative controll... I am not sure it works but he does get some money once the movie is out...

Anyway this post was longer then I anticipated I look forward to the TMNT comics and usually like reading them a bit more then the Spider-man comics and what not but I was kind of undecided about what to think of issue 22, it was done well I think for what it was but there was no need to mess with Aprils origin... how about she was adopted because her mother couldnt have another kid and she gets to meet her biological mother/father and they are friends with a Mutant female turtle named Venus living in the sewers of Boston or something lol thats enought for this post.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Ninja Turtle Nincompoop

One thing I can surely agree on is Peter Laird has and extremely immature, rude and narrowminded approach to discussing differences with the very people that made him rich in his Turtle Tracks. I mean, okay, so you believe you've put out work and they made you rich for it, that's fair exchange? I can't stand how Laird puts off everyone for not agreeing with his approach to things, and if I could pull a Laird here: I'd call him "moronic" (or "idiotic", you take your pick)

I'd just call him a passionate writer, a lot of other writers just try and sugercoat complaints with "Ahhh, thanks for your relevent opinion", Laird has the balls to tell those people where to stick there's. Noone has the right to carry thier weight around and use his letters page as a soapbox as if they know better than anyone, a lot of their prattling s*it contains story ideas and suggestions that no sane TMNT Fan would approve of either, hes' loyal to his artists and stories.

April's character has now gone to total sh*t, now that we know she is a f*cking drawing. And I hear those that think we should accept it and be happy... but this angle was just poorly executed

Your opinion

We were used to the idea of April being human,

I've have no problem with April being a flipping drawing, or Casey being a Leprechaun, it's called EVOLUTION, character expansion, sometimes that means causing a great deal of change, some people can't handle that obviously.

Maybe Lairds' taking a leaf out of IMAGES' book, thier plotlines were far worse than what you presently have, yet noone denies they took risks with the status quoe, now because that quoes' been shattered, fans are abandoning it in favour of sentiment.

Sentiment is all that's blinding these haters, sentiment and disdain for Lairds' characteristics, he's not a kiss ass, he does'nt owe his detracting "fans" anything, I'm not saying you should owe him your time, or praise, but clearly there's enough fans who do like his work

just as we were used to Oroku Saki being human (look at the immediate response from the new series when we discovered that Saki was an utrom.

Yeah, it was DIVIDED OPINION, where the hell were you when people expressed they liked the idea? You;re catergorising us in the same f*cking book, and that's not going to cut it.

Disappointed, yes... but what can you do? I don't want Laird's comics to run out of funds from his supporters, but a part of me wants it to happen, just so Laird can understand that he doesn't make a comic successful, but supporters do. His "my way or the highway" approach sucks, and he's handled this franchise terribly

Your opinion.

As weak as the new series is in the ratings, that is the fault of audience diversity, not Laird

I'm starting to understand how Eastman and Laird argued a lot, it was probably because Laird pitched bullsh*t ideas, like this, and Eastman, the level-headed one, had to fight them off for the sake of the fans that made them rich.

...You're comparing Laird to Vince Russo then?

When fans act like they know what makes the franchise, that's when I just disregard them, I think they LIVE to complain and waste thier time and lives rather than enjoy what they presently have to distract them from things they dislike.

[R-iZZy]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

I'd just call him a passionate writer, a lot of other writers just try and sugercoat complaints with "Ahhh, thanks for your relevent opinion", Laird has the balls to tell those people where to stick there's. Noone has the right to carry thier weight around and use his letters page as a soapbox as if they know better than anyone, a lot of their prattling s*it contains story ideas and suggestions that no sane TMNT Fan would approve of either, hes' loyal to his artists and stories.

First off, no one is telling Laird what to do... all they're expressing is that they believe that his idea is going in a wrong direction. Laird takes offense to not having his ass kissed and feels that his pride has been attacked when someone doesn't approve of an idea that he, alone, is executing. That is the trait of someone who can't react well to criticism. Okay, so he has the balls to tell them they're stupid. Does that disregard the fact that he's still a pompous, immature jerk who can't act civil when someone is on the opposite side of the line when it comes to views? If you want others to see things your way, you attack the ideas that the debater is presenting, not the debater.

Your opinion

Thank you.

I've have no problem with April being a flipping drawing, or Casey being a Leprechaun, it's called EVOLUTION, character expansion, sometimes that means causing a great deal of change, some people can't handle that obviously.

Maybe Lairds' taking a leaf out of IMAGES' book, thier plotlines were far worse than what you presently have, yet noone denies they took risks with the status quoe, now because that quoes' been shattered, fans are abandoning it in favour of sentiment.

Sentiment is all that's blinding these haters, sentiment and disdain for Lairds' characteristics, he's not a kiss ass, he does'nt owe his detracting "fans" anything, I'm not saying you should owe him your time, or praise, but clearly there's enough fans who do like his work

Okay, so "evolution" has occured. Is it not possible that maybe some people don't like the way the author has made this evolution take place? I mean, I understand what you're saying... but my statements were not to cause change or for Laird to take a different approach, it was just to express my opinion, and my opinion still remains... the idea was just terrible. It happens, and no matter what point you bring up... it doesn't change the fact that I still think the idea was just horrible.

Yeah, it was DIVIDED OPINION, where the hell were you when people expressed they liked the idea? You;re catergorising us in the same f*cking book, and that's not going to cut it.

I could see the people who liked the idea, but I saw an even greater mass hate it. I wasn't categorizing this whole board, when I said "we", I was referring to the portion of the board that didn't like the idea, and that was the majority of those who were following the story. Don't make assumptions, and don't let your emotions get the best of you in a point you're trying to make... it just makes you look stupid. That's a suggestion, not an insult.

Your opinion.

As weak as the new series is in the ratings, that is the fault of audience diversity, not Laird

As true as that may be, don't you think that those who don't watch the turtles anymore was a reaction to Laird's idea? The turtles were running STRONGLY in the beginning, and then they start to drop. That means an idea went wrong that didn't captivate the audience, and that must mean the ideas just didn't click with the audience. Who makes the ideas for the storyline?

...You're comparing Laird to Vince Russo then?

Heh, I guess I did.

When fans act like they know what makes the franchise, that's when I just disregard them, I think they LIVE to complain and waste thier time and lives rather than enjoy what they presently have to distract them from things they dislike.

That's a pretty ignorant statement to make. Of course it is fans that make a franchise lift off the ground. The creators don't dig money out of their pockets to throw money into their franchise. Then, that creator is making nothing. It's obviously the folks at home who take the time to watch the shows and movies, buy the DVDs and comics, and feed into the product are what make a franchise. That is basics, no matter what industry you're in, whether that be TV shows, movies, music, inventions, etc. I'm not complaining, I'm expressing what I feel, and I expect nothing in return, just an opinion I'd want others to acknowledge I have. Nothing more, nothing less.

[BigApple3AM]

I'm not sure if anyone brought this up, but doesn't it make it really weird that "shadow" is her daughter (even if not biologically) when April is "nobody"

I think they LIVE to complain and waste thier time and lives rather than enjoy what they presently have to distract them from things they dislike.

Oh kinda like some "fans" live to argue with other fans?

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Ectocooler

Oh kinda like some "fans" live to argue with other fans?

Watch the jaw line before I fracture it

But I apologise for using the term "fans", it was uncalled for, but hey, I don't take kindly to being accused of taking crack

[Buslady]

Originally Posted by Leo656

(Deep Breaths)



I'm sorry. I am. Really. I know you're not (or at least, you shouldn't be). But after this issue, this book officially *sucks*. I've been patient, understanding, even supportive of Laird's "slow burn" storytelling style that people seem to dislike at times. I've put up with Lawson's mediocre (to be kind) artwork. I have been a TMNT fan since 1988, have every DVD, almost all of the video games, a crapload of the toys... hell, I even own a copy of the "Coming Out of Their Shells" album that I PAID for. *Snipped*

Guess what? I agree.
I think I like TNM more than I like this current crap they're doing in the books.
I wish Peter Laird would listen to his readers, he can't just expect us to buy and take every corny idea he comes up with. In some part he shold give us what we want, the reason he doesnt give a rats ass (*looks up* sorry splinter-sensei) about what we think cause he's rich! He's got money, he can do whatever stupid thing he wants to.

The April thing is stupid, flat out stupid! Raph being this monster is cruel to him, yeah so he's just ink on paper, but he's my fave-I stick up for him. Leo and Don's stories are a bore. Mike's is the most amusing; it at least says they aren't exempt from sex.

I think this title is bound to fail. It's no wonder very few comic shops carry it around here.
At least we have Tales of the TMNT and they're NORMAL in it.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Buslady

I wish Peter Laird would listen to his readers

Most of whom in his mailbag hav'nt got a problem with it, and are encouraging him to keep it up, once more the Laird bashing bandwagon fails at life in speaking for every member of the comics fandom.

Raph being this monster is cruel to him, yeah so he's just ink on paper, but he's my fave-I stick up for him

Laird can do anything he wants with these characters, stop treating them as if there real people, this is the part where I just laugh the comments off, at least when Leo thrashes the comic, he's more reallistic about it, if anyone says "Raphy my darlingz, Lairdz beingz cruelz"...christ, I'm half expecting them to start slashing thier wrists next...

Leo and Don's stories are a bore. Mike's is the most amusing; it at least says they aren't exempt from sex.

Oh, well, no surpise there, you take something with sex involved over something that's entrenced in the Foot mythology (Leo) or the Utroms' origins (Donnys')

At least we have Tales of the TMNT and they're NORMAL in it.

Good, READ IT, let people with more appreciation enjoy this story than b*ch endlessly about it, this is what the Laird bashers ignorantly look over, the fact Laird has given you enoiugh f*cking diversity to keep you interested in every media aspect, if you don't like one, read or watch the other. That simple. He was responsible for TALES, he co-plots certain issues, your complaints are boardering on absolute hypocrisy

Does that disregard the fact that he's still a pompous, immature jerk who can't act civil when someone is on the opposite side of the line when it comes to views?

...Depends. I loved his line about republicans and serial killers , naturally, I would'nt risk alienating customers by going to that level, but I'm not above telling someone to shut up if they criticise me without a constructive opinion, sometimes I see more cases of this than most.

It happens, and no matter what point you bring up... it doesn't change the fact that I still think the idea was just horrible.

That's fine, sometimes Laird bashers themselves get too emotional in deriding someone they dislike, (take Bus Ladys' post for example) or disapprove of, (and thank god Leo had to apologise in advance before accusing people like me of taking "crack")

I stand by the opinion that Laird bashers fear change, and so far, with the outcry for a dedicated reasherip of TALES, or "simpler times", this has yet to be proven wrong.

Don't make assumptions, and don't let your emotions get the best of you in a point you're trying to make... it just makes you look stupid. That's a suggestion, not an insult.

Sue me for getting tired of the same old, same old around here. This board has had a problem with Laird for years ever since he attacked members for disapproving of Lawsons' work, no matter what he does, people here are going to complain. Regardless. To this comic forums, he's satan, and can't do any right, not an insult, just an observation.

[Kali]

I don’t think we’ve ever had to close one of these discussion threads for fighting, but this is getting really close. Everyone has different opinions about where these comics are going and what we like and dislike about them. Fine. But now this argument is bashing posters’ opinions as well as the book itself. Quit it.

I agree with the “if you don’t like it, don’t read it” philosophy, but I think everyone’s taking this much too personally.

[zkarlette]

I finally aquired this issue last week after looking for it forever...and let me tell you I respect Mr. laird and I hope vol 4 will last but......reading about April's adventures as a roach was way to much I think..... and that whole "I used to be a drawing so now Im nobody" was totally unnecessary to the hole story... I wish he can come up with better ideas ...Its hard enough to find them and a dissapointment to read lately

[Raph's Girl]

If ya think about it April's origins are somewhat similar to Wonder Woman's (Diane)

April was a drawing created out of love and braught to life thru magical means because her parents wanted another child.

Diane was a statue created out of love and braught to life thru magical means because Queen Hypolita wanted a child in the first place.

Noone complains about Wonder Woman starting out life as a frelling statue but everybody complains because April was originally a drawing.

[BigApple3AM]

Originally Posted by Buslady

Mike's is the most amusing; it at least says they aren't exempt from sex.

This story is actually my least favorite. There's so much sex out there these days (TV, billboards, wherver the f-- you go there's sex) that TMNT is one place where I really don't need it. Especially when it takes place between a turtle and a dinosaur (or w/e she is). Nasty. Throwup nasty.

Originally Posted by Raph's Girl

Noone complains about Wonder Woman starting out life as a frelling statue but everybody complains because April was originally a drawing.

Not to be mean or anything, but was that origin created over 20 years after the character had been created? Was it necessary to the story or actually interesting or was it something just to piss fans off and hopefully get more people to read the book because he's destroying characters?

I hated this story, but I've enjoyed past stories in this book so I'll keep going and see where he goes with this.

Though I'll admit that it all ties together pretty well, he didn't just throw in a random story out of no where, at least it works with continuity.

I'm not too keen on this book because it takes place with aliens and such. Sci Fi is cool sometimes, but what really got me into TMNT was, believe it or not, the realism. They would fight on the gritty streets of NY, living in the sewers because people would think they are outcasts. They fought Ninjas from Japan that migrated to the melting pot of America. The first 3 issues of the original TMNT comic are pure gold. The Utrom issues were out there but still enjoyable especially since it was temporary and then it returned back to gritty NY TMNT.

That's why the Movie is one of my favorite things about the Turtles.

[stonetemplepilot]

I'm in complete agreeance with you Ectocooler. It's the same reason people like Batman and Punisher. Inspite of a few characters, the surreality is grounded so well by the reality of the universe it's set in.

I think the wonder woman argument is vastly different though. Wonder Woman is Wonder Woman. April was, up until now, a very REAL character. In fact, the only real character I suppose. Now the human link is Casey, who's a vigilante himself. Before we had April, who was special in that she was the grounding link between four mutant turtles, hidden alien infiltrators, a secret ninja guild and the real world. Now she's something else.

[BartAllen]

Originally Posted by Raph's Girl

If ya think about it April's origins are somewhat similar to Wonder Woman's (Diane)

April was a drawing created out of love and braught to life thru magical means because her parents wanted another child.

Diane was a statue created out of love and braught to life thru magical means because Queen Hypolita wanted a child in the first place.

Noone complains about Wonder Woman starting out life as a frelling statue but everybody complains because April was originally a drawing.

actually wonderwomans origin is very much apart of who she is. her mother was more a less a cavewoman. who was brutally raped, from that she had a baby, who died. then the mother was later killed . so the goddess athena. taking pity on women all over the world who were being brutally abused and killed by men.. took all the dead spirits and made them flesh again and put them on an island in the bremueda triangle, and athena made that cavewoman the queen of those people. because she was the first to die by a mans hands. but this queen.. longed for her dead daughter so the gods told her to get this clay and sculpt it into a baby. and the gods made the sculpter into a baby dianna. the only woman ever born on themyscra (sp?).. the biggest difference between this and the stuff with april.. it was all a part of wonderwomans origin. whereas this stuff with april just seemed to be made up out of the blue.


and dont get me wrong. i like aprils origin its interesting. i just dont think you can compare a warrior princess that has a comic history of 60 years. to april.

[Buslady]

Originally Posted by Raph's Girl

Noone complains about Wonder Woman starting out life as a frelling statue but everybody complains because April was originally a drawing.

yah but..im not expert, but isnt Diana's origins known early on?
With Ape, YEARS later...suddenly she's a living ink drawing. Come on, too corny.


Yeha I love how I post my opinion of the current TMNT .... feh, oh well. it's not worth my time to get mad over something this stupid.

I wish they would return to the core of the TMNT, living on the streets surviving and trying to stay out of trouble. They seemed to be looking for trouble nowadays. Leo going off to investigate those weirdo fighters. Don investigating the habitrail thing. Mike is in the worst of trouble. Raph has absolutely nothing to do but get drunk and get screwed up.
Ugh.

I know Peter would say 'this is how it's gonna be'..yeah true, i can voice my opinion though.