New Ep Discussion: "The Darkness Within"

[IceFlash78]

Interesting.. I don't know much about Cthulhu other than the name.. but when I saw the monster.. i was thinking of Stephen King's IT....

True, the dreams coudl have been explored further, and Leo maybe for once could have been rescued by his brothers instead of vice versa... This episode was well done, considering they only had a half hour to do it.

Few interesting points... Leo saved Mikey first... (true, it was up to chance which turtle Leo would save first, but i thought it was interesting how the writers had Leo finding Mikey first...)

and about Mikey's dream... my impression from reading your comments was that you were all unimpressed that Mikey was afraid of a one-armed Leo.... I, however was impressed... Mikey's greatest fear is that Leo will someday abandon them and/or turn bad. I thought it really gave some depth to Mikey's character because it showed how much Leo really means to Mikey, and how despite his goofiness and tendency to annoy Leo, he looks up to and relies upon Leo for guidance.

[Lioness-Goddess]

"Leo's" laugh in Mikey's nightmare was freaky...

And you'd think Don would be more afraid of losing his brothers or something. Oh well. They can't all be masterpieces.

[Jester]

The thing with thois episode that shocked me is the fact it showed Leo actually running Splinter through....PG-13 much....I agree it was rushed....it may have been the whole set up with the old guy....i wish they'd spent mor etime on Donny's nightmare....i mean, Angel dieing...a bit forced....I see where Flash is coming from with the whole mikey afraid of leo turining on them...u'd think after that nightmare, he'd be warry of leo a bit. Raph should have fought himself more....unmasked....to come to grips....over all a good episode, but i was shocked by the graphic violence of it, for a kids show....

[Brinatello]

I know, which is why such an episode cannot express itself fully within a half an hour. Hell, less than half an hour! Maybe that's why it ended the way it did, to leave it open for possibilities. I'm just waiting to see the rating change. What's after Y-7 anyway? I never keep track, but with Leo stabbing Splinter, that is NOT grade school material!

[JDavis]

Originally Posted by Brinatello

Speaking of Italian, it would have been better if the creature spoke to Leo in another language with subtitles. I mean, something of that magnitude below the earth would not know English, but its own native language instead. I usually laugh when a creature like that speaks such perfect English. Oh, well!

My impression of it, the creature wasn't really speaking, it was communicating telepathically.

Anyway, a good ep in my opinion. A little rushed, admitedly, but good. Raph unmasking Shredder-Raph was classic. Leo having to deal with and kill an evil Splinter was also interesting (reminded me of a certain MNT Gaiden).

[Doppleganger]

Yeah I'm a bit surprised by all the deaths that went on in this episode, the Native American, Splinter (even if it was a dream it was graphic running him through ), and the old guy. Oh my! Definitely something you don't see everyday.

I agree that Mike's fear was more of Leo turning on them, Raph's was his anger turning him into a monster, Leo's of course about Master Splinter, but Don's was strange. I have to say it probably was about fearing losing their friends. Kind of makes me wonders what his thoughts were when Zog and Leatherhead died, Mikey seemed the most affected by them but who knows...

And I have to say that yeah again they are doing that joking bit after someone dies. They did it with Leatherhead and now they are doing it again. Yeah...not a good moment for them.

But the ending leaves it open for the monster to come back in Season 4. They might do it but then they might not. Not bad.

But that Dr. Chapman, what a ham! He's using his mentors old gimmick. Mousers!

[Brinatello]

The only connection I can get with Don's vision is he's very attached to their human friends. Not just with April, but everyone they've gotten to know. To me, his love for his family extends toward people they would have a hard time trusting at first, but after they enter his circle of trust (thinking of "Meet the Parents" here ), the last thing he would want to see is any of them get hurt, or worse, die.

[rayfillet101]

I thought angel was going to fall into the fire! THAT would have been amazing!

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Jester

but i was shocked by the graphic violence of it, for a kids show....

Hey, what would you prefer? An Anime with badly dubbed lines, bad jokes, and very little blood, or an American show that proves we can still go the distance and not have to depend on crappy s*it from Japan?

It's nothing compared to Return of the Joker...that movie went to limits most American shows will never touch, schizophrensia, child abuse, blood, man, that film owns

...Judging from the reviews, this had a lot of flaws in it, the general consensus on other boards was that the story should have had two parts

[Aska_Badoura]

Someone asked what the Illuminati is.. it's supposedly an organization that has secret control over just about everything in the world. It's been around since at least the Middle Ages, orchestrating political events, manipulating funds, and learning secrets about *everything*, even supernatural/non-human. Featured a few times in Gargoyles. Saki would have made a good member, had he not been busy being an alien. Heck, he probably is anyway.

Klunk! I was hoping he'd show up again!

And the old guy called Raph an ignoramus!!

And he didn't kill him for it!

Even the guy who was from the New World in the flashback looked like Sean Bean with the blonde hair in National Treasure.

*shrugs* I dunno, I think we project stuff on animated characters sometimes. I thought he looked like John Smith from Disney's Pocahontas, myself.

BTW, I like your avatar, Kazari! I want one!

I wonder why Don's dream was about Angel not April...

I'd hate to think it was simply because they didn't want to pay the voice actress for just a few lines of dialog. They had her appear briefly in "Notes From the Underground" and not say a word, for what seems to be that same purpose. As for it being confusing to him... I think Don would investigate, whether she was supposed to be there or not, at least to find out what the heck was going on.

Don reading that Italian quote, "Abandon Hope, All Ye Who Enter Here" or Don said, "Abandon All Hope, Ye Who Enter Here."

It could have been "Dead men tell no tales", so be happy.

My mini-essay on the violence, using Gargoyles as a model (in my enternal comparison of TMNT2K3 to Gargoyles ):

Events in Gargoyles where you do see blood:

Goliath catching a sword blade in his hand (sword swings down, he catches, skin thick enough it only cuts, making blood run down his hand)
Elisa accidentally shot (see the gun go off (on screen!), then see an unconscious Elisa on the floor in a pool of blood)
Goliath raked in the arm by a robot with claws (causing a series of small cuts, treated with first-aid after that)
There may be other things, I haven't watch the series in a loooong time.

Events in Turtles where you'd expect to see blood:

Leo's beating and tossing-of-through-the-window by the Foot (see some of the beating and interior shot of him coming through the window, but he's only bruised up, not cut up)
Beheading of the Shredder (see them leaping toward each other with a slow-mo effect, hear off-screen sword slash, then body landing on feet,supposedly whole, then head falling off, body collapsing, no blood)
Mike slashed by the Shredder in VR world (see blade coming toward him, off-screen slash sound, Mike flying through the air and collapsing, unconscious as though severely wounded, but no blood, which made it confusing in that case. Should have made it more obvious it was a slash, rather than a punch)
Leo running through the apparition of Splinter (eek!) (back view of Splinter as he runs toward Leo, who brings his sword up. See him collapse, hear sword slash, see tip of sword through back of robe without piercing it. Wow.)

Now, I found myself squirming a lot more describing the violence in TMNT than in Gargoyles. They present shocking situations, that are supposedly toned down by the lack of blood (they aren't!), while Gargoyles presents only minor situations, and uses the blood. The exception of course is Elisa's shooting, on par with Shredder's decapitation, only no body parts are lost (which I think is more shocking), and there is blood, and quite a bit of it. I argue that TMNT is more violent, even without blood! I mean, showing such violence is acceptable if there's not blood? I'm not on a soapbox, because I don't mind if they have violence like that, as long as it's not every episode. But leaving the blood out does absolutely nothing. If you're gonna go to such extremes anyway, then show the blood! Maybe it'll teach kids not to use swords or something.

[IceFlash78]

*edit* OH FYI: That "Abandon all hope/ All ye who enter here" quote is from Dante's Inferno (I forgot exactly which canto/line) for anybody who didn't know that.

*shifts uncomfortably*

I need to see this episode again... I don't remember the TMNT making a joke after that guy died... (for that matter, I don't remember them joking after Leatherhead's "death") Maybe the TMNT were like trying to make light of the situation... like they were trying to cope with death by making fun of it? Cruel, I know.. but they're still teenagers.. they're still slightly immature... *shrugs?* Still.. if they DID joke after Leatherhead's "death" i would have been offended... LH was their friend after all... But this guy.. he was just some random guy and the TMNT didn't see him die, so the TMNT wasn't "attached" to him?

Again... it could be the writers' way to "lighten up" the show and making it more "acceptable" to the young viewers, even though it IS cruel and insensitive...

*looks around* Who's Klunk, and which episodes did he first appear in? (I still haven't seen all of the episodes... )

On a positive note.. I like your analysis of Don's dream... it makes sense considering Don's character (although it could be argued that Mikey's the one who cares the most about humans, not Don...)

[Leonardo Mystic]

*cries* I didn't get to see this episode. We had an ice storm, and it knocked out the power. It never came back on in time to record the show.

*sighs* And I was so stoked to see it. I guess I'll have to wait until it comes on CN to catch it, whenever that will be.

[Utrom Shredder]

Originally Posted by Machias Banshee

This was an interesting episode. The first thing I noticed was the Pyramid with the Eye.

Did anyone else catch the fact that that Pyramid with the Eye looks almost exactly like the one on the back of the $1 bill?

[Jester]

it's the symbol of the illuminati...and yess it does....

[Kazari]

Like National Treasure *runs off before she gets hit*

[Lioness-Goddess]

*looks around* Who's Klunk, and which episodes did he first appear in? (I still haven't seen all of the episodes... )

Klunk is Mikey's cat. He first appeared in the Christmas Aliens. You could only see him briefly in the garage in the beginning.

But TMNT has always been kind of dark. The rating will probably go up, I think the cartoon has more older viewers as well.

[TheCloneRanger]

Originally Posted by IceFlash78

*looks around* Who's Klunk, and which episodes did he first appear in? (I still haven't seen all of the episodes... )

Mike's pet cat. He first showed up (in the cartoon, anyway) in the Christmas episode.


Edit: So, you can't delete posts anymore?

[Torrant2]

quote
Beheading of the Shredder (see them leaping toward each other with a slow-mo effect, hear off-screen sword slash, then body landing on feet,supposedly whole, then head falling off, body collapsing, no blood)


Shredders body is a robot. There wouldn't be any blood.

I keep wishing that Leo would have said "You're not my father" instead of "You're not my master".

[Kazari]

True but before then we didn't know that his body was an utrom exoskeleton.

[Aska_Badoura]

Shredders body is a robot. There wouldn't be any blood.

Er, you're right. Well, you get the idea anyway.