DC Relaunching AGAIN

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

Barbara does have some history with Jason Bard, they dated in the early 70s' during her original backup run in Detective Comics and parted ways because of careers taking them in different directions. However, Jason Bard since One Year Later set of appearances is a wishy washy douche

Reading the solicitation for the final issue, it appears they're going to give him some traumatic incident that made him a douche, likely to reinvent his character and freshen him up or start him on a path where Bab sacrifices all her free time trying to 'fix' him

[ZariusTwo]

I read today's Batgirl. Felt like a case of Writer Revolt, a big take that to not just Killing Joke, but Joker War as well

Spoiler:

Babs' spinal implant ends up being remote controlled by Joker, so she damages it by sticking a metal rod through her back, then manages to stab the Joker in the spine with it.

The writer appears to be indicating the series is'nt in canon with the rest of the books in tweets and interviews though

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

I read today's Batgirl. Felt like a case of Writer Revolt, a big take that to not just Killing Joke, but Joker War as well

Spoiler:

Babs' spinal implant ends up being remote controlled by Joker, so she damages it by sticking a metal rod through her back, then manages to stab the Joker in the spine with it.

The writer appears to be indicating the series is'nt in canon with the rest of the books in tweets and interviews though

I just read Detective Comics and Batgirl back to back. Batgirl was intense. Why does the artist give her four hands though? Also, while no plastic surgery Harvey Dent is back in complete control.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

All of the reviews I'm reading online for this week's issue of Batgirl are horrified, offended, triggered, and pissed off.

I don't get it. I thought it was a damn good issue.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

All of the reviews I'm reading online for this week's issue of Batgirl are horrified, offended, triggered, and pissed off.

I don't get it. I thought it was a damn good issue.

The problem is we don't read the whole story anymore just chapters of it by the month. I was left uneasy with the first part of the Church of Two arc,but it settled once it progressed. I am viewing the arc in Batgirl as Barbara Gordon getting revenge on Joker by the end of the story from The Killing Joke story. She just has to be brought to her knees to rise up and win in the end. I am reserving judgement until it is over. I am leaning towards favoring it at the moment. Batgirl has suffered some really bad stories from the sick blood thirsty James Jr. and his romancing her bi-roomate near the end of Simone's run. Then there was the evil trans-Batgirl. The brief romance with Lucius's son and the trip to Japan not leading to anything. Finally with Dick in her heart she is forcing herself into a relationship with Bard. Barbara has suffered poor plot direction for a long time. I hope in the end of this arc my favorite female hero stands tall and will receive great guest spots afterward.

What is it about being out of continuity? It references Batman#95. My question is the Nightwing arc she guest stars in, that comes before or after the current Batgirl story?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

The problem is we don't read the whole story anymore just chapters of it by the month. I was left uneasy with the first part of the Church of Two arc,but it settled once it progressed. I am viewing the arc in Batgirl as Barbara Gordon getting revenge on Joker by the end of the story from The Killing Joke story. She just has to be brought to her knees to rise up and win in the end. I am reserving judgement until it is over. I am leaning towards favoring it at the moment. Batgirl has suffered some really bad stories from the sick blood thirsty James Jr. and his romancing her bi-roomate near the end of Simone's run. Then there was the evil trans-Batgirl. The brief romance with Lucius's son and the trip to Japan not leading to anything. Finally with Dick in her heart she is forcing herself into a relationship with Bard. Barbara has suffered poor plot direction for a long time. I hope in the end of this arc my favorite female hero stands tall and will receive great guest spots afterward.

What is it about being out of continuity? It references Batman#95. My question is the Nightwing arc she guest stars in, that comes before or after the current Batgirl story?

$hit, man, I don't even care. I just read it for the hopes of a damn good Babs vs Joker story, and the issue fvcking delivered.

And all the tender hearts on the internet are bleating that it's a terrible, horrible, rotten, no-good very-bad thing to have published. Probably the same ones who freaked out at the cover with Joker painting a grin on Babs' face a few years back...

[Leo656]

More details, please. Haven't heard about it yet but I like to know what's got the snowflakes melting on any given day.

It's 2020, though, so... any comic book that isn't 22 pages of a female protagonist standing triumphantly on the villain's neck while talking about why she's awesome and more people ought'a be gay would in itself be "bad" enough to get the sheep bleating.

But yeah, what are they whining about THIS time?

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

$hit, man, I don't even care. I just read it for the hopes of a damn good Babs vs Joker story, and the issue fvcking delivered.

And all the tender hearts on the internet are bleating that it's a terrible, horrible, rotten, no-good very-bad thing to have published. Probably the same ones who freaked out at the cover with Joker painting a grin on Babs' face a few years back...

I don't understand the praise of The Killing Joke because it paralyzes Barbara Gordon for no good reason. However, this could be an inverse and is set up to raise Batgirl up and get past the specter of the Killing Joke. I am thinking positive results in this.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

I don't understand the praise of The Killing Joke because it paralyzes Barbara Gordon for no good reason.

Very simple.

1. It's a great story.
2. It changed the status quo, something comics always tease but never actually do. And it stuck for ages, something else that never happens.
3. She was dead weight otherwise. Barely used in years and they had no plans for her at all.

I know she's a favorite of yours, but she had no value as anything but maybe a picture on a kids' lunchbox by 1987. Crippling her actually made people pay attention to the character and gave her an entire "second life" as Oracle. "Batgirl" was already dead because - Harsh Truth time - her books never sold.

So they could have made her one of a million characters they just stick in a drawer and forget about for the next 15 years, but instead they "accidentally" made her interesting. Oracle was way, way, WAY more of a "player" in the DCU than Batgirl was. Batgirl was straight-up C-list, something that was even mentioned in-canon from time to time; conversely, DC's heroes depended and relied on Oracle. She was arguably a much stronger character than she'd ever been previously. Even the villains spoke in hushed whispers about "The Oracle", the mysterious information broker who knew all of their weaknesses and kept the DC heroes one step ahead of all their misdeeds. Villains weren't afraid of Batgirl, they laughed at her. But Oracle? They may not have known who she was, but everyone knew she was A Player. Hell of a promotion, if you ask me.

The decision to cripple her may have been, in the moment, "for no good reason" - although "Creative Has Nothing For You" is always a pretty good reason, let's be honest - but it ended up being best for everyone.

They probably only even brought her back as Batgirl because that entire Oracle run made her popular "for reals" for the first time. Otherwise, she'd be one of those "retired" super-heroes who suits up once every 10 years when there's a "Crisis" cross-over, and that's the only time she'd even be around. A lot of the post-New 52 stuff with her has been awful from what I've seen, BUT, it's only even possible because her being Oracle got her a ton of "sympathy heat", thus enabling her to be popular enough to eventually put back on the active roster.

"Big Picture", buddy. Big Picture.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Leo656

More details, please. Haven't heard about it yet but I like to know what's got the snowflakes melting on any given day.

It's 2020, though, so... any comic book that isn't 22 pages of a female protagonist standing triumphantly on the villain's neck while talking about why she's awesome and more people ought'a be gay would in itself be "bad" enough to get the sheep bleating.

But yeah, what are they whining about THIS time?

So back when the New 52 started, she got a spinal implant allowing her to move around on her own two feet again.

Joker shows up with a remote control to her spinal implant, starts playing around with her and monologuing about all the wild 'n' crazy $hit he's gonna do to Batman THIS time...

Babs grabs a steel pole (broken off a roof satellite dish) and stabs herself in the back with it, shorting out the implant and freeing herself from Joker's control (at the cost of crippling herself again). Then she stabs Joker in the back the steel pole, and the issue closes with both Babs and Joker lying in pools of their own blood on the roof... Joker complimenting her on being the best Robin.

It was a damn good issue.

[Leo656]

Yeah, that's what MikeandRaph said happens, but I'm not sure what the complaints would be about, is what I'm saying.

Because Plot Happened? Because a female protagonist had to "look weak" in victory?

I don't get it. I didn't read the issue but I'm not seeing anything worth whining about just going off of description.

Of course, ever since they brought her back as "Hipster Babs" with New 52 or shortly after, she's been attracting the exact wrong type of "fan" anyways. The kind who don't exactly need a reason to whine because they make it a point to be "triggered" by anything and everything.

So I can imagine. But seriously... what's the problem?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Yeah, that's what MikeandRaph said happens, but I'm not sure what the complaints would be about, is what I'm saying.

Because Plot Happened? Because a female protagonist had to "look weak" in victory?

I don't get it. I didn't read the issue but I'm not seeing anything worth whining about just going off of description.

Of course, ever since they brought her back as "Hipster Babs" with New 52 or shortly after, she's been attracting the exact wrong type of "fan" anyways. The kind who don't exactly need a reason to whine because they make it a point to be "triggered" by anything and everything.

So I can imagine. But seriously... what's the problem?

I don't get it either. Because the Joker uses her as a puppet for half the issue?

He's the fvcking Joker. Yeah, it's creepy and evil. What, do people think he's going to take Babs out for an ice cream cone and buy her a puppy?

[Leo656]

That's what I mean. Because she's a female character, she can't ever be on the defensive or made to look weak for even a moment, or else it's terrible, horrible, misogynist, etc. etc.? If she's not "over" 100% of the time, her f*cking Tumblrista fanbase is gonna cry about it? Is that the temperature? That's what it feels like.

Someone ought'a tell the hens and the White Knights that you have to put over the Bad Guy before you make the Big Babyface Comeback. That's how this sh*t works. Hulk Hogan was World Champion for a combined total of around 9 years (not a joke), and even HE spent 90% of every match on his back, whether it was Andre the Giant or the goddamn Honky Tonk Man. Sure, he won almost every single time to the point it was a bit stale and predictable, but he still made the bad guys look strong before he inevitably got up and kicked their asses. That's how it works!

Unpopular Opinion Theater: Stuff like this is why a lot of people don't particularly want girls to read super-hero comics. They're soft, and they're whiny, and they don't understand proper storytelling and things like a character having to "lose to win", such as this case; they only know how to piss and moan if they're favorite wasn't made to look like an untouchable Mary Sue. Those are the kind of people who jumped onto Babs's book with New 52 - those soft, left-leaning "safe space" types who think everything is All About Them - and I guess based on what I'm hearing that they're still around and still trying to muck around with everything.

Am I close? Is that who's complaining? Is it mostly women and "White Knights" trying to score some Internet Choch? Because I haven't clicked a single article about this, but something tells me if I do, all these comments are gonna be coming from rainbow-haired females and "guys" named Chad. Just a gut feeling.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Am I close? Is that who's complaining? Is it mostly women and "White Knights" trying to score some Internet Choch? Because I haven't clicked a single article about this, but something tells me if I do, all these comments are gonna be coming from rainbow-haired females and "guys" named Chad. Just a gut feeling.

I haven't seen a single woman comment on it. Just a lot of dudes. Maybe they're trying to earn enough brownie points to get laid, I dunno.

The Internet is full of fake people, man. $hit, I'm really a 400-pound Samoan living in a doublewide in Georgia for all you know. But I don't play ukelele.

[Leo656]

Alright, shame on me for assuming, I guess. But men usually know better, is all.

When I spent that one night in the clink, I found out about how they put a lot of soy in the prison food to keep the men passive and basically try and make them more "effeminate" and docile. Kinda feel like that's been a nationwide practice the last 10 years or so and they just haven't told anyone. Sure would explain SOOOOO much.

At the absolute LEAST, it would explain the "Skinny Jeans w/Goatee, Nerd Glasses and Man-Bun (aka "Bitch Biscuit")" trend. Seriously, can we shoot these people?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Alright, shame on me for assuming, I guess. But men usually know better, is all.

When I spent that one night in the clink, I found out about how they put a lot of soy in the prison food to keep the men passive and basically try and make them more "effeminate" and docile. Kinda feel like that's been a nationwide practice the last 10 years or so and they just haven't told anyone. Sure would explain SOOOOO much.

At the absolute LEAST, it would explain the "Skinny Jeans w/Goatee, Nerd Glasses and Man-Bun (aka "Bitch Biscuit")" trend. Seriously, can we shoot these people?

I hadn't heard about it in prison food, but I've heard of that effect in general from soy foods. Huh.

"Bitch Biscuit", LOL. That's a great name for man buns.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

What is it about being out of continuity? It references Batman#95. My question is the Nightwing arc she guest stars in, that comes before or after the current Batgirl story?

That confused me too a bit. The idea that the book is out of continuity is largely because the writer gave interviews saying she didn't consult the Joker War event with the other writers and went her own way with the story

Then she tweeted that all of her plans for the final few issues of the title were leading to things that 'weren't happening' any longer because Didio got fired, so people, including me, simply assumed that meant the book will be non-essential to the rest of what's going on with Joker War...or it could be a case of the upcoming Three Jokers and Batman/Catwoman, stories which are said to be canon, but don't' fit into the timeline of events.

If it helps (pro tip: it doesn't), according to Scott Snyder, Death Metal is what's ACTUALLY going on in the DC universe and everything else are side realities created as a result of the splintered source wall, and will make sense in the universe once Death Metal concludes in January.

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

I don't understand the praise of The Killing Joke because it paralyzes Barbara Gordon for no good reason. However, this could be an inverse and is set up to raise Batgirl up and get past the spectre of the Killing Joke. I am thinking positive results in this.

They're never moving past the Killing Joke. Babs was lucky to have the Oracle gig that defined her for the whole of our generation, because without that, Killing Joke is all Babs will ever be remembered for, just as Gwen Stacy is only remembered for dying

Babs rising above the Killing Joke isn't new to her character, only not many people remember the other times she got her 'revenge' on the Joker in pre-flashpoint or whatever, because I don't think anyone really wants to see it. That's not something sexist to say, it's just some goals should be that unattainable. Just as Peter couldn't save Gwen or Uncle Ben.

I don't see the problem in allowing Joker the ultimate victory, just as they shouldn't have taken Jason's murder away from him either, it makes Batman's world all that more unpredictable, vulnerable and dangerous...that lives can be affected, horrifically altered, all in the name of following Bruce along on the crazy ride that is his mission...the hope comes in rising above being wronged by your bully by becoming something bigger than his crime to your life. Babs might get to give him a recite here and there, but she can never put him away or put it behind her permanently, she can defeat him by simply growing into a stronger force opposed to him, turning his scar into a symbol. That's what Oracle represented for fans and more importantly, for the disabled and handicapped...you don't have to take this literally lying down

Babs walking again did more damage than being crippled ever did. She was representation for people who deserved the word "representation", and DC took that representation away from them.

[Andrew NDB]

Shesus. I'm glad I'm not reading Batman comics anymore. The writers don't even talk to each other anymore... and editors don't enforce anything.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

I hadn't heard about it in prison food, but I've heard of that effect in general from soy foods. Huh.

"Bitch Biscuit", LOL. That's a great name for man buns.

The warden of the local jail attends my Sunday school class. He mentioned the seasoning to keep them docile.

I thought the issue showed Barbara Gordon as confident and strong throughout the issue and overcame the memory that she fears putting The Joker down. The question is how do they both walk away and she has to deal with her sociopath brother again?
https://mlpnk72yciwc.i.optimole.com/...tgirl-47-2.jpg

[ZariusTwo]

DC have put up an article on this week's Batgirl written by the book's author. Seems they're making quite the big deal out of this

[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2020/07/22/batgirls-last-laugh[/URL]