Revenge - Page 2

*Original TMNT Cartoon Fan* · 01-04-2021, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galactus

Whether you think the law should apply to non humans who live on the fringes of society is a different question.

Bebop and Rocksteady were arrested by police in Superhero for a Day. But usually, police aren't aware of the weird things going on in TMNT.

*FredWolfLeonardo* · 01-16-2021, 01:19 PM

In real life, Splinter would be absolutely be in the right for orchestrating the killing of Shredder considering what the latter has done.

It's also how things work in the real world, might makes right. If a real life Splinter didn't go after Shredder, it would only be a matter of time before Shredder comes after him.

I suppose part of this connection to how the real world works is why so many people find Mirage tmnt compelling, although I've heard many people bring up "morally grey areas" when they are referring to Mirage Splinter's motivations, which may be because the idea of revenge makes them uncomfortable.

Dejablue · 01-16-2021, 09:02 PM

Huh. In versions where Splinter was never human I wouldn't think questioning his morality is possible. But then I remember he loved his master so...eh.
In the long term obviously revenge is bad. But in the eyes of a rat that grew up as the pet of Yoshi who basically was a criminal himself (he and shredder were both in the foot clan), makes perfect sense to him to exact gang vengeance.

Then there would be fallout and the turtles have to deal with that or die. But if the turtles die that's basically it. No cycle since the turtles don't have children. I think eventually someone would kill them though.

*Prowler* · 02-15-2021, 08:20 PM

Morality? Well, Splinter is a rat and has always been one in Mirage. And he didn't get mutated until later in his life. So it's not like he was raised like human beings are. His owner mostly just fed him and cleaned his cage, I assume.

Mirage Splinter was selfish and kind of an asshole to raise 4 mutant turtles with the sole purpose of murdering Oroku Saki. But it's not like Saki was a good man either. So we shouldn't feel sorry for him.

Obviously in real life such actions aren't advisable, but since Splinter and the Turtles aren't human, it's not like man-made laws apply to them. If the cops found them they'd not send them to jail, but to some sort of lab. I doubt they'd have a right to a lawyer and go to court. They don't even have social security numbers!

Anyway, with human-like intelligence obtained from mutating, morality is bound to be obtained as well. I guess we can somewhat excuse Splinter l, but not the Turtles who were raised from very young and had more experience with the outside world. It's not like Splinter turned them into murderous machines, anyway. They didn't kill April or Jack Kirby on sight, after all. They've only hurt humans who were their enemies.

*ssjup81* · 02-15-2021, 08:55 PM

This is something interesting to think about. Since we're basing this on the rat > mutated rat mythology, can we really say one way or the other if it's moral? For humans, we would question it, but would that really apply in terms of a rat who wouldn't have grown up with human morals?

I don't feel Splinter really had them as far as Mirage goes. He lived for revenge, which was why he trained the four turtles to begin with. This is probably why I don't care for that backstory for the group, but I do give it a past since it's not like Eastman and Laird planned that far ahead. I will always prefer the human to rat origin.

Like others have said, though, given that they started hanging around humans and befriending some, of course their morality would become more of a thing.

01-16-2021, 09:02 PM	#23
Dejablue Stone Warrior Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: In the USA Posts: 637	Huh. In versions where Splinter was never human I wouldn't think questioning his morality is possible. But then I remember he loved his master so...eh. In the long term obviously revenge is bad. But in the eyes of a rat that grew up as the pet of Yoshi who basically was a criminal himself (he and shredder were both in the foot clan), makes perfect sense to him to exact gang vengeance. Then there would be fallout and the turtles have to deal with that or die. But if the turtles die that's basically it. No cycle since the turtles don't have children. I think eventually someone would kill them though. __________________ ^^^^ SHELLHEADS Inc.- A TMNT Discord! Last edited by Dejablue; 01-16-2021 at 09:09 PM.

02-15-2021, 08:20 PM	#24
Prowler Emperor Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Portugal Posts: 8,909	Morality? Well, Splinter is a rat and has always been one in Mirage. And he didn't get mutated until later in his life. So it's not like he was raised like human beings are. His owner mostly just fed him and cleaned his cage, I assume. Mirage Splinter was selfish and kind of an asshole to raise 4 mutant turtles with the sole purpose of murdering Oroku Saki. But it's not like Saki was a good man either. So we shouldn't feel sorry for him. Obviously in real life such actions aren't advisable, but since Splinter and the Turtles aren't human, it's not like man-made laws apply to them. If the cops found them they'd not send them to jail, but to some sort of lab. I doubt they'd have a right to a lawyer and go to court. They don't even have social security numbers! Anyway, with human-like intelligence obtained from mutating, morality is bound to be obtained as well. I guess we can somewhat excuse Splinter l, but not the Turtles who were raised from very young and had more experience with the outside world. It's not like Splinter turned them into murderous machines, anyway. They didn't kill April or Jack Kirby on sight, after all. They've only hurt humans who were their enemies.

02-15-2021, 08:55 PM	#25
ssjup81 Foot Elite Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Central Virginia (Back in the US) Posts: 4,697	This is something interesting to think about. Since we're basing this on the rat > mutated rat mythology, can we really say one way or the other if it's moral? For humans, we would question it, but would that really apply in terms of a rat who wouldn't have grown up with human morals? I don't feel Splinter really had them as far as Mirage goes. He lived for revenge, which was why he trained the four turtles to begin with. This is probably why I don't care for that backstory for the group, but I do give it a past since it's not like Eastman and Laird planned that far ahead. I will always prefer the human to rat origin. Like others have said, though, given that they started hanging around humans and befriending some, of course their morality would become more of a thing.