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Old 04-18-2018, 02:12 PM   #4021
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That was another issue I had with the show too....
And when a female character did show up she was almost guaranteed to become a love interest of some kind...
April/Mona/Karai/Renet....

I don't mind love interests...I love romance! but it gets a little shady when it happens to 90% of the girls on the show when there aren't that many to begin with...


yep, agreed. more like something that belongs on a CW teen drama than TMNT.
one of the many problems with this iteration of turtles that made it NOT feel like turtles 65% of the time.

cue cubed 'what the hell' post...start your drinking games!
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Old 04-18-2018, 03:03 PM   #4022
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It's a show aimed at boys, how can they add more female representation?

I mean April is usually a main character, Karai being a main villain, occational female recurring characters like Angel but what else can they do?

Venus? I personally like her but no one will ever accept a female turtle and adding another mutant turtle is lame. The dynamic is already centered around the 4 turtles and April.
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Old 04-18-2018, 03:14 PM   #4023
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It's a show aimed at boys, how can they add more female representation?

I mean April is usually a main character, Karai being a main villain, occational female recurring characters like Angel but what else can they do?
Well, they could start by creating more female characters.

The show-runners don't seem to have a problem creating male characters like Baron Draxum, Meat Sweats, and Sergeant Woodpecker. So, I assume that they shouldn't have an issue with handling female characters. (At least, I hope so.)
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Old 04-18-2018, 03:16 PM   #4024
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cue cubed 'what the hell' post...start your drinking games!
Everyone on this forum would die of alcohol poisoning if that were to happen

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It's a show aimed at boys, how can they add more female representation?
Its as ridiculous as arguing that My Little Pony doesn't have enough male characters. Obviously a show will have a larger representation of a certain sex based on whom its aimed at.
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The biggest villains were the censors. What they could do without being held back is my question. Shredder could've done more than blow up the Channel Six building. I don't mean as far as murdering Splinter, but think of the possibilities if censors were not an issue. Shredder and Krang combined had the biggest arsenal of any villains in all of the cartoons.
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Old 04-18-2018, 03:20 PM   #4025
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I actually would love more Male ponies in MLP. I get excited when I see one get focus XD
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Old 04-18-2018, 03:31 PM   #4026
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I actually would love more Male ponies in MLP. I get excited when I see one get focus XD
Would I love to see more male ponies? Absolutely. But I do I think they are not being represented enough and that makes the show worse? Absolutely not.

Same with tmnt, I have no problem with more female characters but I wouldn't judge a show negatively for featuring a predominantly male cast.
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The biggest villains were the censors. What they could do without being held back is my question. Shredder could've done more than blow up the Channel Six building. I don't mean as far as murdering Splinter, but think of the possibilities if censors were not an issue. Shredder and Krang combined had the biggest arsenal of any villains in all of the cartoons.
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Old 04-18-2018, 03:45 PM   #4027
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Don't think the original MLP had much in the way of a male fanbase... That doesn't seem to have happened in some big way until this new version.

TMNT however has always had plenty of female fans... dare I say it's one of those rare ones that has always been not far off from being 50/50. (So the whole "it's for boys" thing has and will always be quite irritating. Marketer's thoughts on it be damned. Fan perspectives should align with fellow fans and what actually exists in the fanbase... not marketers.)

Girls are not some mysterious "other" that are an exception to include on the rare occasion that they feel like it. When it's primarily focused on the Turtles and April, fine, that's as it should be. (And the TMNT are the ones I'm there to see, to hell with anyone else.) But when you've got a series like 2012 that, much as I loved it, adds sooooo many characters over time yet girls aren't just somewhat disproportionate in number but severely... ugh.

The only true female mutants we ever got - that being regular mutants (Mira and this version of Alopex) that don't spend all or most of their time looking like normal human girls - ended up coming very late in the series and just a one off thing, which is a shame.

I don't care if male characters are in a greater number... God knows girls/women grow up with this being the "rule" in society anyhow; like you've got one girl for every five males. (Which does suck btw.) But 2012 kinda made it more exaggerated than it needed to be.

Marketers need to realize that TMNT is for everybody, as both genders and all ages will gladly buy those toys... And the Turtles don't in fact exist in a world where women are somehow magically hard to come by.



In the end though, I'd rather just focus on the stars of the show. You don't need to be male to relate to them.

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Old 04-18-2018, 03:47 PM   #4028
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There was room for a female mutant/s or an older female human maybe (as they already had teen girls), but I didn't find myself thinking I needed to see a load more females when I was watching the show.

As for love interests, yeah okay there were a lot but it also depends what they do with that and what else they do with the character.

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Old 04-18-2018, 05:31 PM   #4029
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The most annoying thing about that whole situation for me, was that we didn't get a Karai action figure until the line was basically dead (snake one doesn't count)...which was absolutely ridiculous. She was major character from early on in the very first season and all throughout the rest of the show, and yet her figure was held until pretty much the end.
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Old 04-18-2018, 05:47 PM   #4030
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Very true. I was fortunate to come across one before the figures entirely died off at my stores. Only thing that bugs me is how tiny the figure is, though I know part of that is probably the restraint of packaging conformity on the hooks.

Spoiler:
Dammit I will probably never find a Monster Hunter Leo though.

Only thing my Walmart has sitting around still are/were three of the large scale Usagi figures and I did see one April in a random spot that I probably should have grabbed...
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Old 04-18-2018, 11:28 PM   #4031
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The most annoying thing about that whole situation for me, was that we didn't get a Karai action figure until the line was basically dead (snake one doesn't count)...which was absolutely ridiculous. She was major character from early on in the very first season and all throughout the rest of the show, and yet her figure was held until pretty much the end.
I was surprised by that too, also thought she had enough of a role to rate figure.

Indigo, could you not get the figure on Amazon?
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Old 04-19-2018, 07:07 AM   #4032
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The most annoying thing about that whole situation for me, was that we didn't get a Karai action figure until the line was basically dead (snake one doesn't count)...which was absolutely ridiculous. She was major character from early on in the very first season and all throughout the rest of the show, and yet her figure was held until pretty much the end.
That's sexism at its finest.

I hope that we'll see more mutants soon.
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Old 04-19-2018, 11:58 AM   #4033
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Indigo, could you not get the figure on Amazon?
I'd looked for it there, but it's like twice the price as it would have been at the store, which is ridiculous. A dollar or two more, fine, but I can't justify paying double.
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Old 04-19-2018, 12:09 PM   #4034
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I'd looked for it there, but it's like twice the price as it would have been at the store, which is ridiculous. A dollar or two more, fine, but I can't justify paying double.
That sucks, they were the same price as the store on Amazon here, they seem to be when they are the newer releases, otherwise they can cost more.
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Old 04-19-2018, 01:15 PM   #4035
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That's sexism at its finest.

I hope that we'll see more mutants soon.
It's not sexism when data proves that female characters in boy-aimed toylines do not sell well enough to justify their creation most of the time.
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Old 04-19-2018, 01:49 PM   #4036
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It's not sexism when data proves that female characters in boy-aimed toylines do not sell well enough to justify their creation most of the time.
Isn't that data, which doesn't prove so much as it supply strong evidence of a correlation between two things, evidence of implicit sexism though?

I mean, if there's nothing wrong with girls, why do boys avoid playing with dolls of female characters?

I'm just confused as to how toy companies get licenses to make toys for properties if they're so terrible at their jobs that they can't sell dolls to children.
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Old 04-19-2018, 02:35 PM   #4037
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Isn't that data, which doesn't prove so much as it supply strong evidence of a correlation between two things, evidence of implicit sexism though?

I mean, if there's nothing wrong with girls, why do boys avoid playing with dolls of female characters?

I'm just confused as to how toy companies get licenses to make toys for properties if they're so terrible at their jobs that they can't sell dolls to children.
I don't think you give the people in charge of companies enough credit because of your political inclination. Any person who's doing the econometric models knows that correlation does not imply causation. You wouldn't have that job if you don't know how to tell slants and ignore them.

Why do boys avoid playing with female characters? That's a whole different topic that has nothing to do with the rest, it's a socio-cultural issue which while interesting isn't the same as the other in which we have hard data we can analyze.

Trust me these licensee's spend a lot of money on research and big data, I know for a fact, they try to optimize profits in any way they can. Selling toys to kids is also the job of the marketing department which is a whole different thing.

But in any way you look at it toys are still kids property so getting adults to buy them is secondary to them. Toylines have failed aimed at adults and kids (in that order), don't confuse collectors lines with mass market kids lines, two totally different markets that go by very different rules. It'll always be Kids with adults in mind in that order when it's a mass market toyline.

Also, toy companies have wanted to breach that gap between properties for as long as I have lived since making products that can appeal to both sexes they can maximize profits and of course there's going to be slants/sesgos but that doesn't mean that because some girls buy a product for boys actually mean there's a market that can be grown. Many toy companies have tried and have failed for the most part. Recent examples, we've seen DC fail with their female action figure line and Disney with their Star Wars line.

There's few properties where there's an actual crossover of fans, no some weirdo furry MLP "bronies" is far from what a company would call a crossover. And I can assure you having TMNT sell more female figures would mean Playmates goes bankrupt (which I know some would like to see ). I think a good example might be Power Rangers who has tried really hard to get girls into the show/merchandise but has failed and hasn't seen the success it had with girls since it was a fad with Mighty Morphin.
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Old 04-19-2018, 02:44 PM   #4038
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Originally Posted by plastroncafe View Post
Isn't that data, which doesn't prove so much as it supply strong evidence of a correlation between two things, evidence of implicit sexism though?

I mean, if there's nothing wrong with girls, why do boys avoid playing with dolls of female characters?

I'm just confused as to how toy companies get licenses to make toys for properties if they're so terrible at their jobs that they can't sell dolls to children.
What the actual hell are you rambling on about?
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The biggest villains were the censors. What they could do without being held back is my question. Shredder could've done more than blow up the Channel Six building. I don't mean as far as murdering Splinter, but think of the possibilities if censors were not an issue. Shredder and Krang combined had the biggest arsenal of any villains in all of the cartoons.
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Old 04-19-2018, 03:28 PM   #4039
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I don't think you give the people in charge of companies enough credit because of your political inclination. Any person who's doing the econometric models knows that correlation does not imply causation. You wouldn't have that job if you don't know how to tell slants and ignore them.
I'm sure some of it has to do with my political inclinations, but I'd say a good chunk of that disparagement comes from marketing mishaps that I've seen happen in the marketplace.

We've heard from both Paul dini and Giancarlo Volpe about the role that toy companies play in the life of an animated series.

Marketing companies consider a large female fan presence as detrimental to the selling potential of what they deem to be a primarily male property.

Disney, who makes most of their money off of their princess lines, changed the name s of their Rapunzel and Snow Queen movies try to win over a male Market.
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just ignore what you don't like rather than obsessing over it and move on with your life.
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Old 04-19-2018, 04:14 PM   #4040
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we didn't get a Karai action figure until the line was basically dead
I don’t think the line was “basically dead.” Karai was released before the Super Shredder wave. Before the Out Of The Shadows movie. Before either of the WWE waves. Before Muckman. Before tons and tons of other figures. Karai was released more in the middle of the line in my opinion. The line had a lot of life left after Karai was released.
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