Another reason as to why reincarnation might be a perfect compromise.

[neatoman]

So I've typically criticized the concept of Hamato Yoshi directly mutating into Splinter as an added complication, that it's just the first step towards turning the Ooze into a catch all plot device. Not to mention how David Wise, in all his infinite hackiness, couldn't present it in a sensical way. While I still stick to that, I just realized there's another reason it sucks, it kills the point of Splinter being a mutant in the first place.

See here's the deal, Splinter is a mutant so he would be able to exact revenge, something he wouldn't be able to do as a normal rat. Of course, if Hamato Yoshi just lives, what the point of mutating or taking revenge? He already fled the country and the mutation didn't add anything in case he wanted revenge. There's the argument that it explains how he has the knowledge to teach but, again, why mutate him at all then? To make us sympathise with him? The versions that depict him as a mutated Yoshi just has him being chill about it, probably to give him a reason to stay that way when they also depict a cure. Not to mention how any other drama just seems to be unrelated to the mutation itself. Point is, all you get with mutant Yoshi is a theme without payoff.

Of course, there's the reincarnation. When it comes to reincarnation origin you get to keep the reason for revenge, as well as the enabling of revenge. It also solves the nitpicks the Mutant Yoshi advocates base their entire arguments on, without tearing new holes in the story.

Does anyone else agree?

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by neatoman

So I've typically criticized the concept of Hamato Yoshi directly mutating into Splinter as an added complication, that it's just the first step towards turning the Ooze into a catch all plot device. Not to mention how David Wise, in all his infinite hackiness, couldn't present it in a sensical way. While I still stick to that, I just realized there's another reason it sucks, it kills the point of Splinter being a mutant in the first place.

See here's the deal, Splinter is a mutant so he would be able to exact revenge, something he wouldn't be able to do as a normal rat. Of course, if Hamato Yoshi just lives, what the point of mutating or taking revenge? He already fled the country and the mutation didn't add anything in case he wanted revenge. There's the argument that it explains how he has the knowledge to teach but, again, why mutate him at all then? To make us sympathise with him? The versions that depict him as a mutated Yoshi just has him being chill about it, probably to give him a reason to stay that way when they also depict a cure. Not to mention how any other drama just seems to be unrelated to the mutation itself. Point is, all you get with mutant Yoshi is a theme without payoff.

Of course, there's the reincarnation. When it comes to reincarnation origin you get to keep the reason for revenge, as well as the enabling of revenge. It also solves the nitpicks the Mutant Yoshi advocates base their entire arguments on, without tearing new holes in the story.

Does anyone else agree?

I'm OK with the reincarnation thing. It makes for a lot of possibilities.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I'm OK with the reincarnation thing. It makes for a lot of possibilities.

What about my analysis on why Splinter's mutation needs to be a key to revenge, as well as how that doesn't work with a mutated Yoshi? It's kind of the crux of this argument.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I only think your criticism point is valid if Yoshi Splinter's main theme was revenge, which it never was. Both Original Cartoon and Nick Splinter believed that revenge was a bad thing and only fought Shredder out of necessity.

As for reincarnation, I don't view it as the holy grail of tmnt origins or anything but I think its just as good and valid as the other two origins.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

I only think your criticism point is valid if Yoshi Splinter's main theme was revenge, which it never was. Both Original Cartoon and Nick Splinter believed that revenge was a bad thing and only fought Shredder out of necessity.

That seems a little contrived and boring don't you think? If he only wants to fight him because it's necessary, then what's the point of being wronged? Wouldn't it be stronger if he had personal reasons?

Even if I like the Nickelodeon cartoon better than the Fred Wolf cartoon, I can't say either one is an example of good storytelling.

[Candy Kappa]

I really dislike the reincarnation angle in IDW, so I hope we never see that again in another incarnation.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by neatoman

So I've typically criticized the concept of Hamato Yoshi directly mutating into Splinter as an added complication, that it's just the first step towards turning the Ooze into a catch all plot device. Not to mention how David Wise, in all his infinite hackiness, couldn't present it in a sensical way. While I still stick to that, I just realized there's another reason it sucks, it kills the point of Splinter being a mutant in the first place.

You still can't get your head around this yet you think the reincarnation thing that IDW (which is preposterous) fixes all these 'issues'?

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

I only think your criticism point is valid if Yoshi Splinter's main theme was revenge, which it never was. Both Original Cartoon and Nick Splinter believed that revenge was a bad thing and only fought Shredder out of necessity.

Agreed, it's works better for the character at least in those versions.