Pro Wrestling Discussion

[Autbot_Benz]

Best Part of the AEW Episode on April 1st

[ZariusTwo]

Wrestlemania Night One Results:

Nikki Cross and Alexa Bliss defeated WWE Women's Tag Team Champions The Kabuke Warriors to win the titles

Elias defeated Baron Corbin

RAW Women's Champion Becky Lynch defeated Shayna Bazler

WWE Intercontinental Champion Sami Zayn defeated Daniel Bryan

WWE Tag Team Champion John Morrison defeated Kofi Kingston and Jimmy Uso in a triple threat ladder match to retain the tag titles

Kevin Owens defeated Seth Rollins

Braun Strowman defeated WWE Universal Champion Goldberg to win the title

The Undertaker defeated AJ Styles in a boneyard match

'Taker's Metallica song used during his entrance and exit

[ZariusTwo]

Wrestlemania Night Two Results:

Charlotte Flair defeated NXT Womens' Champion Rhea Ripley to win the title

Otis defeated Dolph Ziggler with the help of Mandy Rose. They get together.

RAW Tag Team Champions The Street Profits defeated Angel Garza and Austin Theory.

Edge defeated Randy Orton

WWE Smackdown Women's Champion Bayley defeated Tamina, Lacey Evans, Naomi and Sasha Banks in a fatal five-way match

Bray Wyatt defeated John Cena in a firefly fun house match

Drew McIntyre defeated WWE Champion Brock Lesnar to win the title

[TMNTFanatic4Life]

The Boneyard Match and Firefly Funhouse matches were mindblowing lol

In a good way. Wwe can keep things fun and fresh by doing those types of matches once in a while when a certain feud needs it. I know WWE gets shafted on and rightfully but props them on those 2 matches.

Though I know both Cena and Bray had a lot of input in their match but still, well put together by wwe in this time of crisis.

[Leo656]

My wife watched it. I saw some of Night 1, including the finale, but fell asleep during the first few minutes of Night 2.

I did read about the "Funhouse" match, and it reminded me exactly why I hate wrestling. That's about all I can say.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I did read about the "Funhouse" match, and it reminded me exactly why I hate wrestling. That's about all I can say.

Putting on your best Cornette face.

[Leo656]

Not gonna lie, if I were ever to be a "fan" again and be able to watch it and enjoy it, he'd probably have to be the guy running it.

There's two schools of thought on wrestling: "It's all hokey horse sh*t and it's fake, so let's make it as ridiculous and stupid as possible, because f*ck it," and the other, which is more like, "Well, it's fake, but it's also an art, and the art is in getting as close to reality as possible and creating genuine suspension of disbelief, creating genuine emotion, and telling stories that get people emotionally invested." And frankly I've always found the former attitude insulting since people train like lunatics to get in incredible shape and go to great risks and make huge personal sacrifices in order to be privileged to perform.

It's like, on one side, "Well it's all fake, so the heck with it, might as well have a match between a 10-year old girl and the Invisible Man, and charge people $20 to see it." And that might draw a crowd, but so does a lynching, or shooting a guy out of a cannon. But there's no "art" in it.

Then, there's stuff like the Magnum TA/Tully Blanchard feud, which was also "fake" but managed to blur the line between fiction and reality to the point where anyone watching - particularly the infamous "I Quit" match - would be forced to wonder just a little. Or for example, the match between Bret hart and Roddy Piper at WrestleMania, which isn't often cited or spoken of because it isn't a lot of flash or spectacle, but is as close to a perfectly executed match as you'll ever find anywhere. If you sat someone down who knew nothing about wrestling at all, and told them, "This stuff actually IS real," and showed them that particular match, they'd come away believing you because there's simply not a single moment in the match that betrays the "fakeness" of it. Everything from the physical intensity to the emotions on their faces creates a perfect arena for suspension of disbelief; you could believe that it was real, if you didn't know any better.

And that, to me, describes what professional wrestling, at its best, can and should be. And it also illustrates how you can have a storyline that creates drama and emotion and sincere engagement, and NOT need to drag it out for a year or so, and create all kinds of illogical and nonsensical twists and turns and comic book bullsh*t to try and milk more out of it; you CAN make it as simple as, "Well, these two guys respect each other, but they both wanna be 'the best', and they'll go to any lengths to prove it," and if you know how to work - not "perform", but "WORK" - you can create a compelling scenario and execute an amazing match that doesn't require any complicated gymnastics, be they of the physical or storytelling variety, in order to get a reaction and build to an epic crescendo. You CAN pop 80,000 people with something as simple as reversing a Sleeper into a bridge/cradle, if you do the A-to-Z of getting there. You don't HAVE to throw people off of scaffolds or hit them with pies or strip the women down to their underpants in order to get a reaction. It WILL get a reaction, every time, but again, so does a hanging. There's nothing "artistic" or even incredibly impressive about it, to me.

So yeah; I'm not thoroughly impressed by a "match" that took over a week to film and edit, that required a lot of smoke and mirrors and literal Hollywood-grade special effects in order to create drama and look good. If you go to that kind of lengths and can't create something that's interesting to look at, then you've got a problem. You spent a million dollars producing it, I hope it's not boring, y'know? But it's like, okay, good job doing what you're supposed to do, with those resources and that direction. Anyone with decent resources can make a short film.

Put two guys in their underwear in the middle of the ring, then tell 'em to fake fight BUT make it look as real as possible, and never give the con away? THAT is work, my friend, and it's that sort of thing which people train for years to achieve. Put simply, anything "anyone" can do is spectacle, not art. Maybe that's "elitist" "cynical" or whatever, but it's also simply true. Like the Omega vs little girl match from a ways back; like yeah, it's well-choreographed and kind of amusing to watch, but they probably spent a week rehearsing it so of course it is. That's gymnastics, not wrestling, and "anyone" with a thimble full of athletic ability at all can be "bottle-fed" and carried through a series of maneuvers and you can call it "a match". You can call it that, just like you can film a mini horror movie or whatever and call it "a match", but... it isn't. You're not "wrestling", you're f*cking around jerking yourselves off. It can be fun to watch but I find it somewhat vulgar, all the same.

I know me and Cornette are probably in the same minority on this, nowadays, but... well, the guy's right about 99% of the time, from where I sit. I think he goes too far sometimes, but if you watch any of his shoots where he's actually staying on a topic rather than just ranting and raving, and he breaks down how to run a territory, create a character, build a star, tell a story, all that stuff... The stuff that was true in 1985 is still true today, and those same basic building blocks CAN still work... it's not all passe' and irrelevant just because everyone does a backflip as a transitional move, now, and nobody sells anything and the fans are trained to only pop for pinfall attempts and finishers. It's not that his mentality is "old-fashioned", it's simply that you have to re-wire your audience sometimes and the audience is currently "wired" into popping for gaga and nonsense because "F*ck it, it's all fake". Just like in the late-90s they were "wired" to pop for garbage wrestling and high spots, and now everyone mostly accepts that stuff is of very little value and only cretins still jerk off over balcony dives and barb wire and light tubes. If you work at it and "train" the audience to pop for stuff like chain wrestling and basic psychology again, though, they will. That's just "hard", and it's a TV business now, so going for spectacle is easier. But that doesn't make it "right".

Add Raven to the list of guys I admire and agree with most of the time. He doesn't watch wrestling, either. It breaks my heart when these guys who understand the business better than anyone, end up not even able to watch it anymore because it simply doesn't adhere to the core principles of storytelling and psychology anymore. But, it is what it is.

We're all "yelling at clouds" because once upon a time you could get people invested with a ring, four ropes, two people, and nothing else. "Yeah, well, you can't do it like that now." Yes you can, it's just more difficult. But WHEN you do it, the product is better and the fans are more invested. You don't win "fans for life" with these mini-movies or guys teleporting with drones or whatever other forms of what I call "Skit Comedy Pro Wrestling" you put out there. You'll get a lot of traction on the internet with it and end up on a "listicle" of pop culture moments, but you'll never hook people to their core and make them fans for the rest of their lives with that stuff, the way you will with Hart/Austin or Pillman/Liger.

That's the biggest separation between the "casual wrestling fan" and the so-called "hardcore fan". The casual fan will pop for a guy getting hit with a pie or someone shouting a goofy catchphrase because "F*ck it, it's all fake, let's just have fun." He won't be watching in five years. The little kid with a ringside seat for Pillman/Liger, though, who looks up at his Dad and says, "Are you sure this isn't real?" is going to be watching (and complaining ) for the rest of his life.

In my mind, there's never any excuse not to aim as high as you can, and "It's all fake anyway" isn't a good excuse. So yeah, I'll gladly get on the bus with Cornette, and Raven too, any day. They're cranky and old-fashioned and set in their ways, but... they're also right. They worked in the business when the business made money off of more than just T-shirts and quarterly advertising shares, I figure they might know a thing or two.

[MikeandRaph87]

[Autbot_Benz]

WWE just released Drake Maverick EC3 Luke Gallows and Karl Anderson Curt Hawkins and Lio Rush Eric young and heath slater. Im excited for Ec3 he will go to AEW or back to Impact

https://www.wwe.com/article/wwe-tale...-karl-anderson

WWE also released a bunch of producers

PWInsider.com is reporting that the following WWE Producers have been released today:

Dave "Fit" Finlay
Mike "IRS" Rotunda
Shane "Hurricane" Helms
Lance Storm
Billy Kidman
Pat Buck
Shawn Daivari
Scott Armstrong
Sarah Stock

Add Kurt Angle and Adien English to the release list as well. Same for Sarah Logan and Mike chioda Erick Rowan Primo and Epico as well Mike and Maria Kanellis too Zack Ryder is gone too No Way Jose too Rusev is too no more rusev day

[ZariusTwo]

Aiden and Rusev might resume their double-act on the independent scene now

[ZariusTwo]

Howard Finkel has died

https://www.wwe.com/article/howard-finkel-passes-away

[MikeandRaph87]

I knew it was inevitable that Vince would have to cut losses. I admit I am rather casual but I thought Anderson and Gallows would have a storyline waiting as a part of The Bullet Club/OC after A.J. finished selling The Undertaker's burial of him. Also surprised Rusev is gone or was he not working as a shades of gray face? Angle was still on the payroll? I thought he retired and was done as general manager too.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Autbot_Benz

Best Part of the AEW Episode on April 1st

https://i.imgur.com/2QcP6t7.gif

I keep wondering if this is a jab at The Hounds of Justice.

[ZariusTwo]

So the premise for Money In The Bank this year is like something out of Finders Keepers or the Crystal Maze...or the Mr X stages of Streets of Rage

BREAKING: WWE Superstars will climb the corporate ladder at #MITB!

The match begins on the ground floor of WWE Headquarters but the briefcases will be hanging all the way up on the roof of the corporate tower!

https://twitter.com/WWE/status/1251312417163874307

[TMNTFanatic4Life]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

I knew it was inevitable that Vince would have to cut losses. I admit I am rather casual but I thought Anderson and Gallows would have a storyline waiting as a part of The Bullet Club/OC after A.J. finished selling The Undertaker's burial of him. Also surprised Rusev is gone or was he not working as a shades of gray face? Angle was still on the payroll? I thought he retired and was done as general manager too.

Rumor was Rusev wasn't being used due to a contract dispute...I guess cutting him was due to that and being on Vinces "shat list" only stemming from cutting his hair and getting over with the Rusev Day gimmick.

As for Angle....he was recently brought back as a match producer.

[Coola Yagami]

I didn't know IRS was still alive.

[Hamato Yoshi]

Howard Finkle was so sweet

[Autbot_Benz]

WWE released Joe Henning fka Curtis Axel

https://nodq.com/news/590279724.shtml

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by Autbot_Benz

WWE released Joe Henning fka Curtis Axel

https://nodq.com/news/590279724.shtml

Dang, but like... they never knew what to do with him. Him, Bo Dallas, Heath Slater and Zack Ryder were like the quartet of glorified jobbers.

[Autbot_Benz]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Dang, but like... they never knew what to do with him. Him, Bo Dallas, Heath Slater and Zack Ryder were like the quartet of glorified jobbers.

ya I bet Matt Cardona FKA Zack Ryder will go to AEW his best friend Cody is there. Id see Joe in NWA possibly Slater not sure.