Classic Episode Discussion: Revenge of The Fly

[MikeandRaph87]

-Baxter's final appearance in the series is written by David Wise. The previous episode had a writer with only one other credit in the series. Baxter once again returns from another dimension, but Z is with him rebuilt. Wise wrote three of the six episodes with Baxter as a mutant fly and the half that contained Z in some form.
-Genetic Essences Is DNA coding?
- Vernon ask if it could be used for diabolical purposes. Then he clearly states the lack of security and the address of the laboratory going down to the specifics! He wants it stolen! Or is he just that absent minded?
-Shredder does indicate that he sent Baxter off to an unknown dimension opposed to Donatello sending Baxter off. So it does lend credibility that Landlord of the Flies was forgotten.Between this and the out of character action of the TMNT later on in the episode it seems surprising that it is David Wise since I thought he had a good handle on everything.
-utronium crystal? What is that a play off of? What ever underwater found rare substance it is what powers the retromutagen ray gun.
-The retromutagen ray gun is the gun that was taken from the alien ship in Bye,Bye Fly so why is it referred to as the retromutagen ray gun? Perhaps Shredder is using the device as a replacement for the destroyed one and this is simply not working?
-Z is a computer chip, I was thinking he was back to his old school laptop look, so I guess there is some continuity here.
"Shredder, I need you!"-Krang, repeating his well known line from Shredder is Splintered.
-I find it odd how Z claims that Baxter is his best friend and he is always expressing how smart Baxter is. It is an odd partnership which Z is in the driver's seat and he acts like Baxter is.
April is caught in a fire that got out of control. Different predicament. Also, coincidence of timing as as soon as they leave guarding the chemicals Baxter shows up. Only Michelangelo and one other Turtle had to go off to help her. Or at least that is what should have happened.
-Leonardo defends Vernon after the scientist suggest it was Vernon's fault. Why defend him?
-Raphael states the obvious pointing out to the hole in the wall in Baxter's form. He does say that Baxter is five and a half feet tall? I thought the Turtles were roughly five feet and he was smaller?
-The scientist is voiced by Townsend Coleman who is using his Rat King voice. Its odd hearing an established character's voice coming out of another,
-Super Slosher 2000 as the newest fire fighting equipment? Odd but funny name.
-Baxter's lack of intelligence plays a role in the episode as he struggles to remember the number of Channel Six News and leaves behind Z who is now inhabiting an iPad before there were such things.
-Burne is a bumblebee- Irma a moth- Vernon a spider - April a wasp. Were there any symbolism to what they were turned into? If I read into it too much Irma eats through relationships as moths eat through clothes. -Bees are the most notable bug, aas far as feared and prestiege so the boss is a bumblebee? Vernon is the creep who started this mess indirectly so him turning Baxter into a meal is ironic...even if he was not able to go through with it. Also, April is The Wasp, a one time leader of The Avengers so being the Turtles human friend that is the connection. Like I said its all speculation.
-Baxter captures Michelangelo and Leonardo. Why are they the captured half of the Turtles? It happens several times! Mix it up!
-"We insects can never truly rule the world until the Turtles join our kind!"-Baxter. First off is it functioning exactly like Bye, Bye Fly so they could or is it one of those things the Turtles are immune to already being mutants? Perhaps demutate.
-There was an error in either storyboard or animation as Raphael and Donatello stopped because of Vernon's spider web and then come back from commercial and then suddenly they are a few feet up stuck on it.
-Leonardo makes a valid and simple point, "Baxter, just what did we do to you?". "I don't remember, but you will pay anyway".-Baxter. It was a combination of both Shredder for getting Baxter involved and Krang for attempting to execute him( the second time) that put him in the state he is in. However, the Turtles out of character moment is still to come and I would argue they do do something to Baxter.
-The mutagen causes them to be under Baxter's control. The mind controlling agent is not explained as an element to this unique mutagen.
-"Vernon, that is not how we get ride of villains in this show!"-Donatello. Good line and fourth wall acknowledgment. Dregg could have gone the way of death though and I am fine with that!
-The Turtles take Baxter prisoner and are moodier than usual.
-Z uses his control of the Technodrome and Baxter surprisingly did not tip off the Turtles accidentally.
-The primary color buzzsaw droids. Are those the same ones from Enter: The Shredder?
-The four Technodrome residents stay locked up in a closet for most of the episode, but manage to free themselves using Krang's bubble walker as a lever.
-"Its back to the pet shop for you!"-Shredder, another repeated line from Shredder is Splintered.
-Okay so he Turtles go after Baxter to to get the gun to return the human population to normal.
-Michelangelo reach through the portal to gives the Turtles a way back. Why not take Baxter with him? Better to leave him as a fly mutant stuck in an alternate dimension? Baxter is simply not seen after Mike throws his grapple hook.
-That is it for Baxter the fly and his friend Z. Z is still in the portable computer in the Techndrome, but that plotpoint is never followed upon. It is a shame that Baxter did not receive resolution in this series.

[lonewarrior20]

I have the production template cells of wasp april and moth Irma in this episode. I wish they would have shown more of Aprils transformation and the transformations of the channel six crew. I also find it ironic that april when she get changed back has her full jump suit back. the bottom half did get destroyed when she mutated.

[Icebot]

When Baxter told the security guard he can park wherever he wants, I noticed the guard sounds like Homer Simpson and I was wondering if Dan Castellanca did his voice?

The episode also shows another possible continuity error about the retromutagen ray. The turtles took it and destroyed it after turning everyone back to normal but they still had the ray later in Wrath of the Rat King and it was a completely different ray.

[neatoman]

Sure are a lot of threads about the Baxter episodes up lately...

1. I'm surprised that a character given such an unfair time is treated as harshly as any other villain.
2. His inventions were rejected
3. They're then used for evil purposes he didn't know about
4. Is almost killed for his involvement
5. Gets interrogated for things he barely knew about
6. Gets arrested for a crime he didn't understand he was a part of
7. His belongings are stolen by a mutant turtle
8. Ends up in a mental hospital
9. Is abducted from said hospital
10. Is almost killed for failing his abductors
11. Is accidentally transformed into an insect monster
12. Clearly suffers legitimate mental degredation
13. Often end up trapped
14. His chance to reverse his mutation is pointlessly taken away from him

Even the legitimately evil versions of this character are not treated this badly. I think the reason he's not really evil here is because of that "Baxter as Turtles' ally" thing Peter and Kevin vetoed.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Sure are a lot of threads about the Baxter episodes up lately...

1. I'm surprised that a character given such an unfair time is treated as harshly as any other villain.
2. His inventions were rejected
3. They're then used for evil purposes he didn't know about
4. Is almost killed for his involvement
5. Gets interrogated for things he barely knew about
6. Gets arrested for a crime he didn't understand he was a part of
7. His belongings are stolen by a mutant turtle
8. Ends up in a mental hospital
9. Is abducted from said hospital
10. Is almost killed for failing his abductors
11. Is accidentally transformed into an insect monster
12. Clearly suffers legitimate mental degredation
13. Often end up trapped
14. His chance to reverse his mutation is pointlessly taken away from him

Even the legitimately evil versions of this character are not treated this badly. I think the reason he's not really evil here is because of that "Baxter as Turtles' ally" thing Peter and Kevin vetoed.

I used free time during the pandemic to watch all six Baxter the Fly episodes chronologically and made comments as I watched it. That is where the threads came from. It was also asked if I would create instead of bump up decade old threads.

What is this about Baxter Stockman as the Turtles ally being vetoed? At what point could this have happened?

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

I used free time during the pandemic to watch all six Baxter the Fly episodes chronologically and made comments as I watched it. That is where the threads came from. It was also asked if I would create instead of bump up decade old threads.

What is this about Baxter Stockman as the Turtles ally being vetoed? At what point could this have happened?

Yeah, someone started a thread in which they uploaded an old interview in which Kevin and Peter talked about some vetos they did early in the show's production. Sadly I can't find said thread despite my best efforts but I know it's around here somewhere. Anyway, if memory serves me right, the things that were changed are:

1. Shredder was not going to build Krang a body, rather Krang would fuse to him.
2. The Turtles were going to hijack the Technodrome and make it their new headquarters.
3. Baxter was going to become an ally.

While I can't find the thread with the article, Peter Laird did mention the Technodrome thing on his blog:
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot..../ask-pl-6.html

I don't have many clear memories about getting those first batch of scripts, but I think we may not have seen any of them until our first visit to the offices of Murakami/Wolf in California. One thing I DO remember quite clearly is shooting down what Kevin and I both considered to be a ridiculous idea that Wolf (or someone writing for him) put forward -- that at the end of the first few episodes, the Turtles would take over the Technodrome and turn it into their lair.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Yeah, someone started a thread in which they uploaded an old interview in which Kevin and Peter talked about some vetos they did early in the show's production. Sadly I can't find said thread despite my best efforts but I know it's around here somewhere. Anyway, if memory serves me right, the things that were changed are:

1. Shredder was not going to build Krang a body, rather Krang would fuse to him.
2. The Turtles were going to hijack the Technodrome and make it their new headquarters.
3. Baxter was going to become an ally.

While I can't find the thread with the article, Peter Laird did mention the Technodrome thing on his blog:
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot..../ask-pl-6.html

I guess Krang was going to trick Shredder into believing he would build him a new robot body, and then Krang would somehow instead just take over Shredder's body.

But would Baxter Stockman really been an ally of the Turtles already from the beginning?

[Sumac]

Interesting ideas, those were.
In particularly Technodrome being Turtles' lair.
Also Krang fusing with Shredder was sort of done in Archie series.

Also, for some reason I always thought that last Baxter episode was Return of the Son of the Fly 2. But apparently it was in season 4.

About this episode - solid as always. I love when S&K end up being put into hot place other villains. Gives them something else to do besides chasing down Turtles.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

But would Baxter Stockman really been an ally of the Turtles already from the beginning?

Since I don't have access to the thread in question, I don't know for sure. I think he was going to start out as Shredder's unwitting lackey and then become an ally at the end of season 1.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Since I don't have access to the thread in question, I don't know for sure. I think he was going to start out as Shredder's unwitting lackey and then become an ally at the end of season 1.

Like inventor of the Turtle Van and Turtle Blimp? Serve a role similar to Harold Lija in IDW? Instead the Turtles tie him up and steal his vehicle.

[neatoman]

Never mind what I said about not finding the thread, here it is:
http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=57229

Spoiler:

[Wesley]

This was a great episode and a fitting conclusion for Baxter and Z imo.

I enjoyed rewatching these Baxter-Fly eps. Their story structure kinda remind me of the Sideshow Bob eps from The Simpsons.

I didn’t think it was out of the character for the Turtles to leave Baxter in the dimensional limbo. They needed to act quickly to retrieve the retromutagen ray from him before the portal closed.

Was hilarious when Shredder got locked up again.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

What if Baxter Stockman returned to Earth during the Red Sky Seasons?

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

What if Baxter Stockman returned to Earth during the Red Sky Seasons?

I'm surprised he didn't, considering that many of the shows biggest side characters made an appearance during season 8 (General Traag, Rat King and Casey Jones).

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

I'm surprised he didn't, considering that many of the shows biggest side characters made an appearance during season 8 (General Traag, Rat King and Casey Jones).

He could have met Barney Stockman or something, or try a serious revenge on Shredder and Krang (like attempting to blow up the Technodrome or something).

[FredWolfLeonardo]

As an idea, perhaps Baxter could've replaced Gargon in the season 8 finale, Turtle Trek.

The turtles find him in the Dimension X prison, where he is repentant of his past hostility and helps them defeat Shredder and Krang in the end, getting restored to his human form much like Gargon in the actual episode.

From then on Baxter could've been either a regular or an occasional ally to the turtles during their battles against Lord Dregg.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

I think Baxter Stockman could have travelled to Dimension X, found a spacecraft and crashed it into the Technodrome (and escape in an escape pod).

[Egon1982]

Irma looked strange as a butterfly lady

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by Egon1982

Irma looked strange as a butterfly lady

I like

Don't worry for any ants ruining your picknick. You are the ants.

[Coola Yagami]

I dunno, I always envisioned some story or episode where the Turtles, amidst stopping whatever Baxter's next plan was involving the mutagen ray or whatever, would decide, for the heck of it to just blast Baxter too and turn him human again. Baxter can be confused and ask why they did that, the Turtles can say they realize all along all the stuff Baxter has been doing has mainly been due to Shredder telling him to. Then Baxter turns on Shredder, who of course tries one last time to manipulate him, and does whatever ruins the plan of the week, idk, cut April free or push some button on whatever device that undoes whatever it does, etc.

It would be a cool way for Baxter to exit the show, he'd walk off and the turtles would end it on some one liner. Maybe Don can mention something like 'wow, just think guys, now we basically have one less bad guy to worry about' and Raph can say 'hey who knows, maybe we can get Rat King a job at a grocery store and we can retire.'