Star Wars: Episode IX

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by frank_one

Do you think her character will survive? I think Leia will die and at the end of the movie we will see her in ghost form with Luke (and Yoda/Anakin/Obi-Wan?), something similar to the end of Ep 6.

I can't even call it. It sounds like the right people are asking the right questions about stuff, but I don't know. The obvious inclination would be to have Leia go out in a blaze of glory somehow, get audiences roaring... but it goes back to what I've been saying. Would Carrie want that? Should the character be killed quick just because the actress died IRL? I mean, if I played Luke Skywalker for 30 years and I died tomorrow... do I want the character to die with me? Certainly not.

However... it is not a simple issue. Was the plan to kill Leia in IX all along? If so, then proceed as planned, by all means. But... was there even a plan at all? We're kind of led to believe there never was, so... gah. I can't call it. Now that we finally know exactly how they're proceeding (deleted/unused footage of Leia from TFA) I think we at least have some clues but even then, not a full picture of their intent.

I personally think the best the best way to go with everything we know is, incorporate Leia's big addressing of the New Republic scene from TFA (the biggest scene we know was cut from TFA) in some big rallying way, use whatever else they have on the chopping block to insert into the middle of the body of the film... and leave her alive by the end. Books and comics and recastings set between IX and X can tell the rest of that story, but the trilogy of trilogies can end with her presiding over whatever is left aft the end of IX. Because no one else is.

[sdp]

In 5 years we will have gotten a new trilogy and two theatrical spin-off films. During the previous movies it took 6 years just to get 2 star wars movies out. This was always the problem, trying to MCU the Star Wars universe when it's supposed to be something special and an event.

I do think the backlash against TLJ and Solo bombing yet their 'blame the viewers' strategy didn't work has made Disney re-thinking how they'll manage the franchise. That's good the problem is they might not realize what the problem is and think JJ and how things were in TFA is when they got things right which it isn't. All the praise TFA got was because it was new Star Wars but that's when things began to go wrong. I'm not confident Disney will get things right but at least they're aware the way things were going was not the way.

I don't think there's anyway to salvage the Sequel Trilogy at this point, it's taken too much damage already but at least they can lower the blow somehow. Any future movies should take their time and deal with an entirely different time period away from this mess. I'd love to have an episode X one day but that can wait a decade or two. And yes the numbered saga must be about the Skywalker legacy, no reason to have a numbered sequel is it has nothing to do with it, we can explore other characters and settings in other types of films.

[TigerClaw]

The problem is the fans. They don't know what they want. The Force Awakens was great. But some fans thought it was too much like A New Hope. and wanted something different. The Last Jedi was something different. and the fans hated it for being different. Star Wars fans cannot make up there minds.

[sdp]

The fans are the problem is the narrative the mainstream geek blogs and Disney want to put out. In any fandom you'll never please all fans, especially one as big/ old / hardcore as Star Wars but it's certainly possible to not piss off most types of fans at the same time.

How is TLJ different? Adding comedy where it's not needed? Making a boring movie?

Again, it's the narrative they're trying to dictate, I think most of us loved all the new stuff they've done with the franchise. Characters like Rey, Phasma, Finn were all so cool and yet they've been handled so poorly. They've shoved legacy characters down our throats but given them crappy story arcs that only pisses us off, I think all of us would've been happy with the old cast having a very minor but GOOD role in the movies. TLJ kept saying "Let the past die, kill it if you have to" or whatever that was, I can tell you I was so excited when it seemed Rey and Kylo were going to join forces, this was something NEW, and what happens a few seconds later? Oh wait NEVERMIND let's go back to Empire vs Rebels so it's exactly the same as the OT.

Making these movies without a vision is what has ruined Star Wars, Lucas' flawed vision at least had an end point or sort of progress.

[Vegita-San]

the problem was, the last jedi wasn't different at all.

all that was different is that they tried to be dark and moody in a plot that hadn't earned that yet. it was still a cookie cutter copy of 5 and 6 right down to the last detail.

even the dark and moodiness angle.

face it. this area of star wars has no creativity.

[plastroncafe]

My issue with the idea that Disney is creating this false Narrative of a noxious fandom, is that they didn't create it.
It's nothing new, and has always existed.

the many who are seeing it now seemingly for the first time are doing so because they were the ones in the protected gatekeeper class to begin with.

you can just not like the movies all you want, they're not perfect movies by any stretch of the imagination. It's not exactly hard to find faults with anything in that universe, because all of the movies have them.
When I go to see a star war I'm not expecting Citizen Kane.
And there's no accounting for taste.

But to say that Disney and geek blogs are fabricating this idea of fandom and hardcore fans that doesn't exist, it's just patently false.

And no amount of no true Scotsman is going to change that.

[sdp]

But there is and it's clear as day, If you need me to provide examples you're just buying into it, I mean you already said it yourself. I've posted evidence before on the TLJ thread if you are really curious.

Mainstream blogs are not about "geek" culture, they're about getting clicks, and things had never been as bad as they have gotten in the 2010s. There is clearly a Disney bias since just like Apple they can keep their exclusive treatment only to those who give them good press and also because of identity politics. It's understandable since it's a business but they're making the industry worse off and you have apologists who side with them.

As far as the fans, the fandom is far more polarized than it ever was during the prequel era, why is that? Everyone and their mom seemed to hate the prequels and yet things didn't get this ridiculous as with TLJ. I think it's part because the blogs back then tried to copy what the fandom did, the fandom disliked it so they disliked it, and now it's the other way around where the blogs want to tell you how to feel about the property. Also because politics have been intertwined with your opinion of something, certainly if you didn't like Episode II back then people didn't tell you that you were a Bush supporter or imply that you were one of the -ists like they do now.

Yes, the current narrative is false, and it's a strategy that has worked for a lot of things, it only seemed to fail with Ghostbusters 3 and now with Star Wars because there's enough fans who aren't putting up with it. And I thinkGhostbusters 3 (in b4 andrew says it isn't 3) is ok and think it was given an unfair chance by fans and critics, but the narrative of "it's the fans that are wrong" that killed the movie. For Star Wars it's been more divided but clearly it also failed.

edit: And I apologize for this post as I hope it doesn't start another 10 pages of people going nowhere.

[frank_one]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

The problem is the fans. They don't know what they want. The Force Awakens was great. But some fans thought it was too much like A New Hope. and wanted something different. The Last Jedi was something different. and the fans hated it for being different. Star Wars fans cannot make up there minds.

The fans hated it for being bad, not for being different. Rogue one was different and the fans loved it.

[Andrew NDB]

I wonder why on earth Spaceballs 2: The Quest for more Money hasn't happened yet. The time is more perfect than ever!

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by frank_one

The fans hated it for being bad, not for being different. Rogue one was different and the fans loved it.

Some fans hated it, and some fans didn't.
That's kind of how this always plays out.
It's just that the fans that didn't like a think seem to be suffering under the delusion that they're the only fans that matter.

To that I say:

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by frank_one

The fans hated it for being bad, not for being different. Rogue one was different and the fans loved it.

There's literally people who liked TFA and hated Rogue One. I mean you can see varied opinions by virtually everyone online of the 4 new movies Disney released so far.

[Andrew NDB]

Yeah, the idea that "Rogue One" is universally liked is... not true.

[snake]

Rogue One and to an extent- Solo, are the only good didney sw movies.

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

The problem is the fans. They don't know what they want. The Force Awakens was great. But some fans thought it was too much like A New Hope. and wanted something different. The Last Jedi was something different. and the fans hated it for being different. Star Wars fans cannot make up there minds.

TFA was a literal carbon copy of TNH, just worse. And TLJ seemingly was just a bad movie.
It's not about fans, it's about Disney making mistakes and producing mediocre movies.

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

you can just not like the movies all you want, they're not perfect movies by any stretch of the imagination. It's not exactly hard to find faults with anything in that universe, because all of the movies have them.
When I go to see a star war I'm not expecting Citizen Kane.
And there's no accounting for taste.

When producers are trying to reframe all criticisms of the movie as "angry nerds being angry" - it's issue of the producers, not fanbase.
When author is being angry that his work is controversial and doesn't hailed by everyone, even though he virtue signaling to the max, it's a problem of the author.
Doing any of those is not only unprofessional and outs people who do so, as extremely little minded people with inflated egos without ability for self-reflection.

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

But to say that Disney and geek blogs are fabricating this idea of fandom and hardcore fans that doesn't exist, it's just patently false.

Actually, no-one is trying to do this. Thanks for putting argument on top of its head as always.

[Vegita-San]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Yeah, the idea that "Rogue One" is universally liked is... not true.

especially considering this is where lucasfilm started going full SJW on fans. I WAS looking forward to it, until that started, then I lost all enthusiasm..and saw that it was just another safe episode 4 nostalgia callback that wasn't needed.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

especially considering this is where lucasfilm started going full SJW on fans. I WAS looking forward to it, until that started, then I lost all enthusiasm..

So a movie having a female lead automatically makes it going full SJW? WTF?

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Sumac

TFA was a literal carbon copy of TNH, just worse. And TLJ seemingly was just a bad movie.

True. TFA was such -- even as a carbon copy of ANH -- that everything hinged on what they would do in part 8. And then they did TLJ...

[ZariusTwo]

So apparently the scene where Leia and Han reunite from Force Awakens was not meant to be Leia's first appearance in the movie...her first scene, where she tries to gather resources for the resistance, was cut. According to this guy, the scene could now serve as the footage used to keep Carrie in episode IX

https://twitter.com/mikeryan/status/...019%3Fpage%3D3

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

So apparently the scene where Leia and Han reunite from Force Awakens was not meant to be Leia's first appearance in the movie...her first scene, where she tries to gather resources for the resistance, was cut. According to this guy, the scene could now serve as the footage used to keep Carrie in episode IX

We've known about that scene for years now. It's in the novel, too. And I posted that very thing like 3 days ago:

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I think they'll find a way to repurpose the deleted scene of Leia addressing the New Republic from TFA. Then snippets of her looking deep in thought at various times.

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

True. TFA was such -- even as a carbon copy of ANH -- that everything hinged on what they would do in part 8. And then they did TLJ...

It's actually hilarious that they used TNH (one of the most "complete" movies ever) as a template and managed to make it worse by trying to connect it to the future part...which eschewed a lot connections for the sake of the ****** "PLOT TWISTS".

And then Johnson and Disney attempted to justify it by saying "we must forgot about the past", except the whole sequel trilogy is founded upon the past and is a continuation of the past and the first movie was a copypaste of the past movie and TLJ still uses the same status quo from the past...