They are listening to fans?

*Galactus* · 02-09-2016, 07:02 AM

So all the set reports and interviews have had people involved with the movie give the hard sell that this time they've really listened to the fans and that has influenced their choices in the movie. Certainly from the various trailers that emphasize all the elements that come from the Fred Wolf animated series a lot of fans have concluded the same despite the fact that inclusion of Bebop, Rocksteady, Krang and the Technodrome were all things they wanted from the beginning and were all in that horrible Blue Door scrtpy so this isn't really fan service. So let's take a closer look at the common complaints of the last movie and see what (if anything) they've done to address them.

In no particular order:

Donatello's glasses and gear
A relatively small thing on my radar but if there was an anywhere near consensus it was that those glasses were stupid and should go and yet here we are ready for a sequel with those same thick frames taped up like the most dated nerd stereotype and now he has added suspenders to complete the look.

The character still seems to be loaded with gear. It's not really toned down just different. In an interview Jeremy Howard said he agreed with fans that the character had way too much stuff on him then went on to say Donatello has some Iron Man-esque gear we've yet to see. Seems to me they've done the opposite of listen to fans where Donnie is concerned.

Turtles accessories in general
A lot of fans didn't like how busy the designs were with a lot of unnecessary accessories. You could argue it's toned down but honestly they've mostly just replaced it with different unnecessary accessories. Raphael in particular looks even more loaded with stuff. What are those metal straps that are so thick and wide it covers most of his upper body? Why does he have one big shoulder gauntlet? Why have they all got police-style walkie talkies? I'd personally give them some credit for getting rid of the loin cloths but I think it's debatable how much they've really addressed fan complaints on this one.

Designs in general
It really hits you how little the turtles themselves have changed when show up against the quite cartoon accurate characters and it's a very jarring to see the two together.

Pick on Cybercubed for not letting go of his obsession with those noses but he aint wrong, is he? Those faces do look weird and off putting and after so many internet memes you'd think they'd address...or rather address it more. It was noted that they did tinker with the faces particularly Leonardo's between that first trailer and before the last movie was released and certainly they've tone them all down to the point where Leo looks almost like a classic ninja turtle which shows that the arguments that the couldn't and retain the actor's performance do not hold water. This is something that really should have been fixed.

Stupidity
There's a reason why everyone called foul on the whole Splinter learning ninjutsu from a book thing - because that's way too stupid for even a franchise called Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. With nothing to indicate they've fixed that origin and we get the backstory fans want to see and is the true meat of the stort it's clear that there is a very clear line of when things get too silly for the fans and I think they've definitely crossed it.

Source fidelity
They are giving the hard sell that the sequel is much more faithful to TMNT and not just the the Fred Wolf show although it definitely seems that's the only version they are being faithful to...kinda. Like I said no signs of introducing Yoshi vs Saki backstory which is an important part of all the versions of TMNT including that Fred Wolf show. Despite their claims they are being ultra faithful they are eager to pat their backs on the idea are giving Casey Jones a backstory that isn't true to the popular one that he's had in two pretty prominent versions.

Any thoughts? Disagree? Any to add yourselves?

Myko · 02-09-2016, 07:43 AM

The thing about stupidity is that you can only have one (or very few) outrageous element before it just becomes a farce. When you have mutated turtles and a rat living in the sewers practicing ninjitsu, maybe you shouldn't also have a giant transformer robot suit shooting metal boomerang knives. (Or, what I feel is a valid criticism against TMNT90, have an unmutated rat learn ninjitsu by mirroring a human.)

But TMNT90 is a good example, there are mutated turtles and a rat, that's pretty much it. The rest is the regular world. Even the first episode of Fred Wolf only introduce the turtles, splinter and the technodrome. Krang and B&R are not revealed/created until episode 2.

slingtheory · 02-09-2016, 11:59 AM

As of right now the only critism it looks like they may have listened to is that foot should be ninjas of some kind, shredder shouldn't need powered armor, and Eric Sachs is an unnecessary character if he's not the shredder. Everything else looks the same with a few new old faces added.

*CyberCubed* · 02-10-2016, 02:37 PM

Donatello's glasses are as big an offense as the nostrils to be honest. Its absolutely baffling they feel the need to give Don glasses.

*CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy* · 02-10-2016, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Donatello's glasses are as big an offense as the nostrils to be honest. Its absolutely baffling they feel the need to give Don glasses.

Worse than the nostrils. Turtles gotta have nostrils to breathe, they just don't have to be cow nostrils or whatever you think about them.

But dem Urkel spectacles.

*CyberCubed* · 02-10-2016, 02:43 PM

I mean the glasses on Don are ridiculous. Its like something from a 70's or 80's sit-com. Nobody ever needed to give Don glasses to tell us he was "the smart one."

Its insulting.

*CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy* · 02-10-2016, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I mean the glasses on Don are ridiculous. Its like something from a 70's or 80's sit-com. Nobody ever needed to give Don glasses to tell us he was "the smart one."

Its insulting.

Yup.

10...

papa_smurf73 · 02-12-2016, 06:37 PM

i apologize if this in't the appropriate forum for discussing the first movie, but...

In my humble opinion, I wish someone would have started with the story of Shredder and Splinter's relationship. Obviously, there are soooo many directions one could take go when it comes to the Turtles story, but everyone starts with the Turtles (the main event so to speak). Of course we want to see some kick-ass Turtle goodness, but why not build us up a little first? Give the fans something to look forward to, rather than blow your load right away. (sorry if that offends)...

Issue number 5 of IDW's TMNT comic is sooo compelling and juicy. It made me roll a tear, man. If you haven't read it, read the first 4 comics, and brace yourself for number 5... Do it. Do it now! The story line provides very rich, deep insight into how the Turtle's came to exist, and takes the background story of Splinter and Shredder to new depths. It makes you appreciate where they came from, or it at least made me feel as though I wanted to know more about them.

I've silently grumbled about Bay's first TMNT flick since seeing it. While I kinda enjoy the premise, and crazy-amazing visuals, I still feel a huge void in my soul as a fan. I hesitate to share opinions like this because I don't like to hate on another's creation, but for god sake these are teenagers! Not roided-out body builders! TEENS!... How can you expect to connect with your audience when your main characters look like they were stung by a damn bee?! Don't get me wrong, I dig an occasional flick where man muscle saves the day, but this isn't the place my dude. Our Turtles deserve better. These are highly trained, skilled, stealth, Ninja's! And the reason they are so skilled came with a great price. They need not be portrayed as Lou Ferrigno (totally plays... he was a green giant too.. haha)! I could go-on about how useless April O'Neil's storyline was in the flick... More importantly, based on the first movie, Bay clearly had no respect for Kevin and Pete's creation. Sure he peppered in bits of Shredder and Splinter, but they are by far, in my opinion, the most important part of the Turtle's story. Maybe he's saving their story for the next flick? I really haven't kept up.

There's no doubt Bay has talent, but I left the theater feeling a bit robbed. Maybe this isn't a fair comparison, but I wanted to see something that loosely comes together like Batman Begins. I left that flick feeling like I had a deep connection with the storyline and characters. This flick was easy to follow, yet perfectly described the story of Bruce's connection to his family. I want Bay to take us there. Nurture the storyline more before giving the audience the whole ball of wax.

I will say I'm excited that our generation is continuing to be part of one of the best stories of all time. I only hope that the next film comes with more depth.

What a tremendously long rant. If you made it this far, thanks for reading for sure.

~~Commenter 42~~ · 02-12-2016, 07:35 PM

No.

10char.

*CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy* · 02-12-2016, 09:18 PM

Y'know what they really listen to?

Ticket sales. That's it.

*Shark_Blade* · 02-13-2016, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Donatello's glasses are as big an offense as the nostrils to be honest. Its absolutely baffling they feel the need to give Don glasses.

I think it's fine for Don to have glasses. It gives kids who wear glasses a turtle they can relate to. There's not many heroes wearing glasses in Hollywood.

Let's see...there's Harry Potter.

There's .... Invisible Woman, she wore glasses in Fantastic Four 2 - which was obviously stupid cause she never wore them in the first one (it's mainly to shoehorn her being a scientist when speaking technical script).

Superman was obviously fake cause Clark Kent is his disguise being a mortal weak human.

There's...hmm I can't think of anyone else. Pretty rare species.

*ToTheNines* · 02-13-2016, 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shark_Blade

(it's mainly to shoehorn her being a scientist when speaking technical script).

... think about what you just said.

*Shark_Blade* · 02-13-2016, 04:31 AM

I mean she is a scientist but in the second one they put glasses on her to make it more apparent that she's "smart".

*ToTheNines* · 02-13-2016, 05:12 AM

I agree, I'm just saying they applied the same stereotypical logic to Donatello in the movie. While it's true that you don't see many heroes with eye glasses, it's pretty dumb to throw them on your "brain" character. But then again, just about everything relating to the design of the turtles in these movies is dumb.

I mean, how many millions of dollars did they waste rendering all of that garbage they're covered in? Coulda went with simple designs... like every other version of TMNT.

*Candy Kappa* · 02-13-2016, 05:15 AM

Only reason Donnie got glasses in BayTurtles is to better code him as the nerd, only reason.

~~Amaranthus~~ · 02-13-2016, 05:35 AM

Kids with glasses don't need someone to relate to. What the hell?

*IndigoErth* · 02-13-2016, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shark_Blade

I think it's fine for Don to have glasses. It gives kids who wear glasses a turtle they can relate to.

As a glasses wearer, you know what would be cool of 'Hollywood' to do sometimes? Actually put them on a few "cool" characters now and then... just simple, stylish frames that don't stick out like a sore thumb and the character is no more judged as awkward or brainy then they are without them.

Though superheros as mentioned aren't exactly very relateable and relating only via glasses... no. The Turtles a bit moreso since they aren't really "super" (if the bulletproof nonsense is ignored I guess), but hey... just throw them on Donnie for little reason more than to continue to convey a false, stereotypical message to kids. Yay, thanks 'Hollywood.'

Donnie having glasses isn't offensive (just stupid considering their combat situations), the use of them however purely because he's the nerdy/smart one kind of is. (Am I really supposed to relate to him simply as a fellow wearer...? They aren't a part of me, simply a necessary accessory. I relate far more to my fave even if he doesn't wear any. *Although the fan art I saw a while back with the other three in glasses was adorable.

) And lets not forget he also had to mention his retainer. (Oh, like the others couldn't use some braces themselves?

)

Is our species really so limited minded that we have to make sure we put in dumb signifiers like that... be it glasses, or being overweight, or the use of pink and/or bows 'because girl,' etc. *sigh* I can't wait for the day when things are simply conveyed via personality and the audience can pick up on that on their own without having to be shown visually things that shouldn't have to be made visual.

They could have simply shown Donnie putting in contacts. Or what would be more creative... he *gasp* figures out how to create contacts for one of his other brothers who needs them, or alternately one of the them uses reading glasses at home.

slingtheory · 02-13-2016, 09:56 AM

Donatello with glasses, rapheal with a toothpick that's apparently glued to his lip, michelangelo with sun glasses he never wears and may not even fit his head anyway. Its all lazy visual shorthand for things that should come across through character actions and dialogue. And stereotypical shorthad at that

Shred87 · 02-13-2016, 01:51 PM

Without a yoshi/saki storyline I would say they aren't listening at all. Thats the entire point of the turtles-shredder feud. It makes no sense without that angle... How would splinter even know who Shredder is? If they can fix that i would be able to almost overlook some of these other things...

02-09-2016, 07:02 AM	#1
Galactus Foot Elite Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 2,950	They are listening to fans? So all the set reports and interviews have had people involved with the movie give the hard sell that this time they've really listened to the fans and that has influenced their choices in the movie. Certainly from the various trailers that emphasize all the elements that come from the Fred Wolf animated series a lot of fans have concluded the same despite the fact that inclusion of Bebop, Rocksteady, Krang and the Technodrome were all things they wanted from the beginning and were all in that horrible Blue Door scrtpy so this isn't really fan service. So let's take a closer look at the common complaints of the last movie and see what (if anything) they've done to address them. In no particular order: Donatello's glasses and gear A relatively small thing on my radar but if there was an anywhere near consensus it was that those glasses were stupid and should go and yet here we are ready for a sequel with those same thick frames taped up like the most dated nerd stereotype and now he has added suspenders to complete the look. The character still seems to be loaded with gear. It's not really toned down just different. In an interview Jeremy Howard said he agreed with fans that the character had way too much stuff on him then went on to say Donatello has some Iron Man-esque gear we've yet to see. Seems to me they've done the opposite of listen to fans where Donnie is concerned. Turtles accessories in general A lot of fans didn't like how busy the designs were with a lot of unnecessary accessories. You could argue it's toned down but honestly they've mostly just replaced it with different unnecessary accessories. Raphael in particular looks even more loaded with stuff. What are those metal straps that are so thick and wide it covers most of his upper body? Why does he have one big shoulder gauntlet? Why have they all got police-style walkie talkies? I'd personally give them some credit for getting rid of the loin cloths but I think it's debatable how much they've really addressed fan complaints on this one. Designs in general It really hits you how little the turtles themselves have changed when show up against the quite cartoon accurate characters and it's a very jarring to see the two together. Pick on Cybercubed for not letting go of his obsession with those noses but he aint wrong, is he? Those faces do look weird and off putting and after so many internet memes you'd think they'd address...or rather address it more. It was noted that they did tinker with the faces particularly Leonardo's between that first trailer and before the last movie was released and certainly they've tone them all down to the point where Leo looks almost like a classic ninja turtle which shows that the arguments that the couldn't and retain the actor's performance do not hold water. This is something that really should have been fixed. Stupidity There's a reason why everyone called foul on the whole Splinter learning ninjutsu from a book thing - because that's way too stupid for even a franchise called Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. With nothing to indicate they've fixed that origin and we get the backstory fans want to see and is the true meat of the stort it's clear that there is a very clear line of when things get too silly for the fans and I think they've definitely crossed it. Source fidelity They are giving the hard sell that the sequel is much more faithful to TMNT and not just the the Fred Wolf show although it definitely seems that's the only version they are being faithful to...kinda. Like I said no signs of introducing Yoshi vs Saki backstory which is an important part of all the versions of TMNT including that Fred Wolf show. Despite their claims they are being ultra faithful they are eager to pat their backs on the idea are giving Casey Jones a backstory that isn't true to the popular one that he's had in two pretty prominent versions. Any thoughts? Disagree? Any to add yourselves?

02-09-2016, 11:59 AM	#3
slingtheory Stone Warrior Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Texas Posts: 580	As of right now the only critism it looks like they may have listened to is that foot should be ninjas of some kind, shredder shouldn't need powered armor, and Eric Sachs is an unnecessary character if he's not the shredder. Everything else looks the same with a few new old faces added. __________________

02-12-2016, 06:37 PM	#8
papa_smurf73 Stone Warrior Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 933	i apologize if this in't the appropriate forum for discussing the first movie, but... In my humble opinion, I wish someone would have started with the story of Shredder and Splinter's relationship. Obviously, there are soooo many directions one could take go when it comes to the Turtles story, but everyone starts with the Turtles (the main event so to speak). Of course we want to see some kick-ass Turtle goodness, but why not build us up a little first? Give the fans something to look forward to, rather than blow your load right away. (sorry if that offends)... Issue number 5 of IDW's TMNT comic is sooo compelling and juicy. It made me roll a tear, man. If you haven't read it, read the first 4 comics, and brace yourself for number 5... Do it. Do it now! The story line provides very rich, deep insight into how the Turtle's came to exist, and takes the background story of Splinter and Shredder to new depths. It makes you appreciate where they came from, or it at least made me feel as though I wanted to know more about them. I've silently grumbled about Bay's first TMNT flick since seeing it. While I kinda enjoy the premise, and crazy-amazing visuals, I still feel a huge void in my soul as a fan. I hesitate to share opinions like this because I don't like to hate on another's creation, but for god sake these are teenagers! Not roided-out body builders! TEENS!... How can you expect to connect with your audience when your main characters look like they were stung by a damn bee?! Don't get me wrong, I dig an occasional flick where man muscle saves the day, but this isn't the place my dude. Our Turtles deserve better. These are highly trained, skilled, stealth, Ninja's! And the reason they are so skilled came with a great price. They need not be portrayed as Lou Ferrigno (totally plays... he was a green giant too.. haha)! I could go-on about how useless April O'Neil's storyline was in the flick... More importantly, based on the first movie, Bay clearly had no respect for Kevin and Pete's creation. Sure he peppered in bits of Shredder and Splinter, but they are by far, in my opinion, the most important part of the Turtle's story. Maybe he's saving their story for the next flick? I really haven't kept up. There's no doubt Bay has talent, but I left the theater feeling a bit robbed. Maybe this isn't a fair comparison, but I wanted to see something that loosely comes together like Batman Begins. I left that flick feeling like I had a deep connection with the storyline and characters. This flick was easy to follow, yet perfectly described the story of Bruce's connection to his family. I want Bay to take us there. Nurture the storyline more before giving the audience the whole ball of wax. I will say I'm excited that our generation is continuing to be part of one of the best stories of all time. I only hope that the next film comes with more depth. What a tremendously long rant. If you made it this far, thanks for reading for sure. __________________ My Collection: https://picasaweb.google.com/1182615...eat=directlink COOL STUFF FOR SALE LOOK!!!! - papa_smurf73

02-12-2016, 09:18 PM	#10
CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy Annalist Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 16,435	Y'know what they really listen to? Ticket sales. That's it. __________________ *ALL THEIR DAYS ARE NUMBERED*

02-13-2016, 05:15 AM	#15
Candy Kappa The Agenda of Existing Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Vikingland Posts: 14,596	Only reason Donnie got glasses in BayTurtles is to better code him as the nerd, only reason. __________________ devianArt Instagram Youtube Tumblr Art Blog Patreon

02-09-2016, 07:43 AM	#2
Myko Thug Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Sweden Posts: 73	The thing about stupidity is that you can only have one (or very few) outrageous element before it just becomes a farce. When you have mutated turtles and a rat living in the sewers practicing ninjitsu, maybe you shouldn't also have a giant transformer robot suit shooting metal boomerang knives. (Or, what I feel is a valid criticism against TMNT90, have an unmutated rat learn ninjitsu by mirroring a human.) But TMNT90 is a good example, there are mutated turtles and a rat, that's pretty much it. The rest is the regular world. Even the first episode of Fred Wolf only introduce the turtles, splinter and the technodrome. Krang and B&R are not revealed/created until episode 2.

02-10-2016, 02:37 PM	#4
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 41,101	Donatello's glasses are as big an offense as the nostrils to be honest. Its absolutely baffling they feel the need to give Don glasses.

02-10-2016, 02:43 PM	#6
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 41,101	I mean the glasses on Don are ridiculous. Its like something from a 70's or 80's sit-com. Nobody ever needed to give Don glasses to tell us he was "the smart one." Its insulting.

02-12-2016, 07:35 PM	#9
~~Commenter 42~~ Banned Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 3,954	No. 10char.

02-13-2016, 04:31 AM	#13
Shark_Blade Emperor Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 7,902	I mean she is a scientist but in the second one they put glasses on her to make it more apparent that she's "smart".

02-13-2016, 05:12 AM	#14
ToTheNines [sic] Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 15,098	I agree, I'm just saying they applied the same stereotypical logic to Donatello in the movie. While it's true that you don't see many heroes with eye glasses, it's pretty dumb to throw them on your "brain" character. But then again, just about everything relating to the design of the turtles in these movies is dumb. I mean, how many millions of dollars did they waste rendering all of that garbage they're covered in? Coulda went with simple designs... like every other version of TMNT.

02-13-2016, 05:35 AM	#16
~~Amaranthus~~ Banned Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: West-Flanders, Belgium Posts: 1,815	Kids with glasses don't need someone to relate to. What the hell?

02-13-2016, 09:56 AM	#18
slingtheory Stone Warrior Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Texas Posts: 580	Donatello with glasses, rapheal with a toothpick that's apparently glued to his lip, michelangelo with sun glasses he never wears and may not even fit his head anyway. Its all lazy visual shorthand for things that should come across through character actions and dialogue. And stereotypical shorthad at that

02-13-2016, 01:51 PM	#19
Shred87 Hench Mutant Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 467	Without a yoshi/saki storyline I would say they aren't listening at all. Thats the entire point of the turtles-shredder feud. It makes no sense without that angle... How would splinter even know who Shredder is? If they can fix that i would be able to almost overlook some of these other things...