Leonardo Vs. Raphael

[NeoBix]

My two favorite ninja turtles: Leonardo and Raphael.

Leonardo, the boy in blue, the swordmaster, with his two gleaming katana blades, and Raphael, or Big Red, as I like to call him, with his two powerful sais.

So, who do you think would win if they were in a serious fight to the death? Who's the better fighter?

Personally, I choose Raphael, because he could just use his sais to defend against Leonardo's sword attacks and then he could manuever around him and stab him.

What do you think? Who would win?

[Kazari]

I sense a MAJOR argument and a locked topic soon! But i would have to say that Leo would win since he's calmer than Raphael but it also matters what universe you're talking about as well.

[avervisal]

Raph

[KROW]

I think they would be at a stalemate. Neither one would want to fight to the death. But what I think would happen, Leo would win. He's more knowledgable in the arts of ninjitsu and Raph might make a mistake during the fight. Although I like Raph better, I give it to Leo.

One thing's for certain, it would be a L-O-N-G fight.

[JDavis]

1) They fight
2) Raph, in one of his hot-headed moments, makes some mistake that gives Leo the advantage
3) Leo effectively wins
4) Raph gets angry/Doesn't accept Leo's victory
5) Lather, rinse, repeat

[Jester]

there's the pay perview bought of the century.......but i think leo's cooler head would prevail...though i am a raphie guy

[Ryona]

Well, when you get down to it, people will tend to back up their favorite characters regardless if it's justifide or not.

I'm a Leonardo fan, so naturaly it's expected that I would go with Leo.
Now, putting that aside and going by statistics and facts, Leonardo is definetly going to be the victorious one.
As awesome as Raphael is as a fighter, Leonardo is the more skilled and more capable fighter.

[Kazari]

LOL Yeah I am a Don fan but I still say Leo! LOL

[Ryona]

I gotta say, Kazari, I love your avatar! It's soooo cute! :anime:

[Kazari]

Oh thankies! My friend Sango drew that for me awhile back! It's of my character, Kazari and Donnie! LOL

[Buslady]

For one they'd never fight to the death.

But in a fight, I hate to say Leo might win. He could block all he wants with his sai but for striking the weapon must be in close contact with the offender.

[Doppleganger]

Yeah probably Leonardo would win. His cool head and better skill would prevail. Raph's hot head is his Achilles heel.

[Misfit]

I think Leo.

Raph's blinding rages would just let him down in the long run, ESPECIALLY against Leo. Anger clouds the mind, allowing lots room for sloppiness.

[raphael_is_cool]

What if they were without weapons? Kinda like Mirage Volume 1, issue 19...

Raph overpowered Leo there, even pinned to the ground with a wooden sword thrust in his face

I'd say most times Leo would probably win, but you never see Raph go into a real rampage (like in the aforementioned issue) and really want to kill his brothers. It's kinda why I consider him quite good against other enemies but against friends or his brothers he holds a little something back

[leonardo13]

Leo would win because he trains harder.

[NiNjAtouRtle]

^exactly he is also seen winnig against all the turtles in shredder strikes but just them two leo becouse he just an overall great fighter

[Zelda]

I love Raph, but Leo would win... as said, Raph holds something back against his brothers, plus sais aren't exactly designed to kill so if they were in a deathmatch Leo would still win.

I was never a Leo fan but the new series is definitely getting me into him more and Donny as well. I just love all the guys <3

[Kazari]

Yeah I use to not like Leo either in the old show but now I respect him.

[Jephael]

In the original cartoon, Raphael would probably get bored fighting his brother since he's more of a couch potato in that series.

[Dr. Terminus]

.. I have been thinking.. and still I have no clue .. on who could win this...

[Shreddatron]

Leo would win, because he is leader, and things have to circle around him. But in the first episode of the old Toon Raphael was said to be able to disarm any sword with his sais. Then in the first movie, in the ending rap Raphael is called the leader of the group.

[Kazari]

well i think that song in the first movie was kind of off because Leo's the leader not Raph LOL And Leo would win not because everything revolves around him either. I mean in old toon when Don's clone was created, Don's clone beat Leo, Raph and Mike! LOL

[Hybrid DX]

Tough 1 I would say Leonardo he seems more discaplined but im a bit biased as he is my fave turtle (Raph is 2nd) :P

[NeoBix]

hey no fair you can't have biased answers. LOL j/k looks like so far people think Leo would win... but they not given Raph enough credit. I mean come on.. it's Raphael... he's the bad tough turtle who doesn't take nothin from no one. :D

[Ryona]

Lol! Yeah, Raphael is a badass and that's what makes him cool and all, but you have to keep in acount that Leonardo is more skilled, trains harder, has more control over his emotions and actions, studies millitary tactics & stratigies, has a much better sense of awareness, and chances are that Splinter has so far only taught Leonardo a few very advanced techniques that Raphael hasn't even seen yet.

I'm sorry but like I said, based on statistics and facts, Leonardo would win.

[Kazari]

LOL I am not biased because Neither Leo or Raph is my favorite. So I am neutral LOL But yeah I still stick with Leo! LOL

[heretic888]

Oy vey. Not another one of these..... :roll:

I suppose I could bring up that it depends on which version of the TMNT we are talking about, but honestly, Leo would beat Raph in all of them. And has done so, for that matter.

Raph overpowered Leo there, even pinned to the ground with a wooden sword thrust in his face

Raph didn't "overpower" Leo. Leo held back from using injurious force, and allowed Raph to win. Raph did not return the favor, throwing him through a wall (and injuring him in the process).

Leo later saved him from a cadre of Elite Foot guarding Shredder's quarters, and even later repeatedly bested him in sparring during the Shades of Grey (issues 48 to 49) storyarch, which was the prelude to City at War (issues 50 to 62).

Leonardo, unlike Raphael, also injured the Shredder one-on-one in issue 1 (along with Michelangelo).

Laterz.

[Kazari]

I think Raph would more likely attack one of his own brothers before Leo would. YEah Leo would hold back but his buttons can only be pushed so much when it comes to Raph.

[raphael_is_cool]

Raph didn't "overpower" Leo. Leo held back from using injurious force, and allowed Raph to win. Raph did not return the favor, throwing him through a wall (and injuring him in the process).

Leonardo, unlike Raphael, also injured the Shredder one-on-one in issue 1 (along with Michelangelo).

Laterz.

If that's how you want to see it, fine. You can interpret it how you want and I'll interpret it how I want

[Kazari]

Yeah no matter what u read or see or hear..it can always be interpreted in so many ways so what's the point of arguing over stuff? You know? I mean this has to do with anything in life not just TMNT.

[Ninja Turtl3 : RaphaeL]

i dont understand why people would think that leo would know more about fighting and skillz and all that other **** like realy there all the same age they all have the same master he teaches them and trains them all the same they just need to be treated differently, and you think if they were bros they would know eachothers strenghts and weaknesses? and i think if raph knew a weakness he would advance on it really fast ex mike has an injured leg and there fighting BLAMMO hard crippling blow to the leg but even so he is just to angry and thats his down fall maybe if he tooks splinters advice and stopped trying to solve all of his problems by himself and try to do everything by himself he should work with the team and become a team player but then that wouldnt be raph so yea it pains me to say that leo would win damn it...

[Kazari]

LOL Cute Avatar!!! It's the baby from Dinosaurs! True they do know each other's weaknesses and stuff. I think I would love to see the guys spar more in the upcoming episodes.

[Spitfire]

I like Raph more but Leo would win Leo is way more level headed

[Ninja Turtl3 : RaphaeL]

yea dinosaurs was a sick show anbd i dont really think leo being lvl headed is the reason that he would win its raphs anger... if he was calm like leo it would be a cool fight... but i like him angry thats what makes him cool.

[Kazari]

I like it when Raph makes Leo angry enough to where Leo will yell back at him like in City At War!

[Hamato Inya]

First Leo would get Raph mad and he would go into a bloodlust

Then Leo would get overconfident and eventually Raph would see his chance and strike.

Leo would try to dodge but probably get unbalanced giving Raph another chance.

Don and Mike would be yelling at them to quit it so Leo goes on the definsive trying to get Raph to stop.

Raph, in his bloodlust, tires Leo and then raises his sai for the final strike and the ne3xt thing he knows his sai is burried to the handle in Mikey's shoulder and then he would lock himself in his room but come out later testy and gets mad at Leo. Repeat.


sorry i got carried away :P i just thought of a good fanfic idea! *cracks knuckles* ok back to work

[Kazari]

LOL I would enjoy seeing Mikey and Don to yell at Leo and Raph to stop fighting :P

[Rainbow Daze]

I'm more of a Raphael fan, but I must admit that Leo would most likely win.

To me Raph is the fav because of the anger that consumes him. Part of the fascination in the story is how he was the strongest and most fearless of them all. As said in "Tales of Leo," Rapael expected himself to be the leader one day. But it turned out that his strenght and fearlessnes alone was not enough. With calm, focused training and disipline Leo excelled where Raph could not.

Raph might still be the strongest and most fearless of them all, but that alone is not enough against Leonardos mastery over the arts of ninjutsu.

[Hamato Inya]

*folds arms and nods* true true true... but Raph is a ruthless fighter and has the brute strength Leo has the skills but he would tire after a while since Raph is sturdier

[Ryona]

Yes, it is true that Raphael has more endurance than Leonardo, but not by that much. In the official TMNT role-playing game book, Raph has a physical endurance rating of 20 and Leo has 18, but in physical prowess (agility and refexes) Leo has a rating of 20 and Raph has 18. Plus with Leo's higher combat ratings, Leo would definetly win way before they would get exausted. Raph is still an awesome fighter though, and all four of the turtles are, like, the best fighters in the book (along side Splinter, Casey, and Shredder)!

^_^

[SeaThreePeeO]

Raph is a ruthless fighter and has the brute strength

mmm but being 'sucessful' in the martial arts has nothing to do with ruthlessness nor brute strength. With the correct pressure point strike you could disable someone twice your size and twice your strength.

If I may quote some ancient something or other

~Gentle always turns away strong~

[raphael_is_cool]

If I may quote some ancient something or other

~Gentle always turns away strong~

'Many things are said but few of them are true'

But I'm quoting Splinter...there goes my credibility :lol:

[SeaThreePeeO]

Actually that was a Splinter quote but shhhhhhh :lol:

[Kazari]

Yeah it was...LOL but sometimes gentle is not as hot as strong :P

[NeoBix]

actually, as silly as this might sound to some of you not-so-hardcore turtle fans out there, I think the words of Splinter are some of the coolest quotes and lines I've ever heard. he is one smart rat. i mean, he's the master of the ninja turtles... you gotta be pretty wise to raise 4 mutant turtles and turn them into powerful ninjas. sure it's fiction, but eh... without fiction, life would be boring...

my especially favorite words of wisdom from splinter is prolly from the first movie when he is speaking to Raph about his anger, and he talks to him about how anger clouds the mind and to not confront his emotions by himself. I've never heard any dull or stupid lines from Splinter...

funny thing is... whenever I start to get really mad about something in my life... I always seem to think about the words that Splinter shared with Raph in the movie and it actually calms me down a lot. I think to myself "the angrier I get, the more stupid things I will do and say, so just calm down, take a deep breath and relax." and it works lol :lol:

I took one of those TMNT personality tests a while back and it said I was most like Raphael, which is kinda what I expected. I would like to be more like Leo than Raph, but I find myself often to get way too annoyed and angry to be a leader like Leo. But Raph certainly has his strong points, as you guys have said.

Anyway, I'm rambling... but HEED the words of SPLINTER!! :wink:

[Kazari]

Everyone should listen to sensei! :D! *nods*

[NeoBix]

cuz if u don't, sensei will drop kick u in the head... like splinter does to the turtles.. j/k :P

[SeaThreePeeO]

I would like to be more like Leo than Raph, but I find myself often to get way too annoyed and angry to be a leader like Leo.

Personally I feel that Leo and Raph are more alike then they would care to admit.

[Jo Dawn]

I would like to be more like Leo than Raph, but I find myself often to get way too annoyed and angry to be a leader like Leo.

Personally I feel that Leo and Raph are more alike then they would care to admit.

I totally agree with that. I think so, too.

[Kazari]

Yeah they are! LOL

[NeoBix]

Now that I think about it, you 3 are right about that... it's kind of subtle, in a way, but I do see it.

me and my linear thinking patterns.. lol

[Hamato Inya]

Yes, it is true that Raphael has more endurance than Leonardo, but not by that much. In the official TMNT role-playing game book, Raph has a physical endurance rating of 20 and Leo has 18, but in physical prowess (agility and refexes) Leo has a rating of 20 and Raph has 18. Plus with Leo's higher combat ratings, Leo would definetly win way before they would get exausted. Raph is still an awesome fighter though, and all four of the turtles are, like, the best fighters in the book (along side Splinter, Casey, and Shredder)!

^_^




geesh you have to be that precise! *stares at all the other Leo supporters* you all suck.... I can't imagine things? *imaginary tear*

[NeoBix]

... whoa whoa whoa.. hold on just one darn second.

I think I just had an epiphany or something... because... well, when you think about it...

couldn't Leonardo could just stab Raphael right in his forehead? Eh?

Sure, Raphael could TRY to stab Leo in the forehead, but, I mean... come on, let's get serious folks... do you REALLY think Raphael is that quick? Leo is MUCH quicker. Raphael is like a snail or something... maybe slower than a snail... so he's like a... well.. what's a creature that's slower than a snail? I guess I don't know.. but anyway... yea...

[Buslady]

... whoa whoa whoa.. hold on just one darn second.

I think I just had an epiphany or something... because... well, when you think about it...

couldn't Leonardo could just stab Raphael right in his forehead? Eh?

Sure, Raphael could TRY to stab Leo in the forehead, but, I mean... come on, let's get serious folks... do you REALLY think Raphael is that quick? Leo is MUCH quicker. Raphael is like a snail or something... maybe slower than a snail... so he's like a... well.. what's a creature that's slower than a snail? I guess I don't know.. but anyway... yea...

neither of them can STAB because their weapons are not made for that! hahahahahahaha!!
sai are not sharp and katana are built for slicing and cutting, not poking hehehe

that's funny

and baloney, Raph's as fast as Leo.

[Sakirules]

Rapheal is not the strongest Turtle. He maybe the most fearless but not the strongest. Leo would win plain and simple. He kicked Raph's butt in an episode of the old toon and the new series.

I noticed a couple of Raph fans seemed disappointed that Leo is getting a lot of support. What can I say? We're just being honest. We're not going by favorites like you Raph fans always do

[Buslady]

Rapheal is not the strongest Turtle. He maybe the most fearless but not the strongest. Leo would win plain and simple. He kicked Raph's butt in an episode of the old toon and the new series.

I noticed a couple of Raph fans seemed disappointed that Leo is getting a lot of support. What can I say? We're just being honest. We're not going by favorites like you Raph fans always do


Exqueeze me? Did I pick Raph as the winner? I believe I did not?
Raphael is physically stronger and extremely brave but his attitude and temper would get in the way and he may lose. Leo has alot more discipline and is very good at his art, and probably quicker than Raph also. So don't go sayin I'm picking favorites here..

[KROW]

Don't you know anything about martial combat?

What in the blue hell is "martial combat"?

[NeoBix]

Martial combat..

It is like military combat or war combat i think

[Ryona]

*blinks* You two are very confused.
First off, I thought you were supporting Leo, NeoBix.
Second, color of belt has very little meaning when it comes to if you're a good and capable fighter (especially colors below black).
Third, there are higher levels than fourth degree black belt. In most Martial Arts it tends to go up to nineth degree (or "dan"), and in Ninjutsu, it goes all the way to 15th degree black belt (that's the level of the grandmaster, Hatsumi Masaaki).
Fourth, I know for a fact that you picked Raph because you are not fond of Leo, Hamato Inya. *wags finger* Tsk, tsk, it's not fair to ignore facts and pick favorites.

[NeoBix]

Hmm very true it would appear that I did get confused. Good call Ryo.

Oh and a question for you...

you said that after the 9th degree there is a degree called "dan"?

is that maybe why that one character is named Dan in the Street Fighter Alpha series of video games?

[Ryona]

Oops. I think I confused you there a bit on that one. "Dan" is just the Japanese term for "degree". So, a second degree black belt can also be called a second dan. "Dan" means a few other things in Japanese as well.

^_^

[NeoBix]

oh ok lol sorry

and thanks

[KROW]

Martial combat..

It is like military combat or war combat i think

Ooookay. The only thing I've heard of that comes close is "marital combat". This usually takes place in a domestic setting and involves a case or two of Scotch, Gin, Vodka, or Rum.

[Sakirules]

Exqueeze me? Did I pick Raph as the winner? I believe I did not?
Raphael is physically stronger and extremely brave but his attitude and temper would get in the way and he may lose. Leo has alot more discipline and is very good at his art, and probably quicker than Raph also. So don't go sayin I'm picking favorites here..

Raph is not Physically stronger. All the turtles are equally strong.

[heretic888]

Raph is not Physically stronger. All the turtles are equally strong.

This, I'm afraid, is incorrect.

[Barkworm]

Heretic, we're talking about fictional characters after all. You tend to take these things a bit too serious.

[Duke]

In a real no holds bar fight, Leo would own Raph without really breaking a sweat.

[Sakirules]

This, I'm afraid, is incorrect.


I'm afraid it is

[NeoBix]

lol Krow well I think wife-beating and militaristic fighting are a bit different, but I do see your point... lol

[Weapon X]

I go with leo. My favorite

[heretic888]

Heretic, we're talking about fictional characters after all. You tend to take these things a bit too serious.

Not at all. Just making a statement of fact, something that the creators and others established very early on. Besides, the notion that all four would be "equally strong" is beyond ridiculous --- I have two brothers, and I can assure you we can not all lift the same amount of weights.

"Taking things too seriously" is a common defense against those that don't wish to have their views questioned.

I'm afraid it is

*cough* Proof, please. *cough*

[Duke]

I am not one to typically agree with heretic on much stuff here but he is exactly right.

[NeoBix]

oops heretic...

i think maybe saki was agreeing with you on that post bud..

you said that you think it is incorrect, and he/she said that he is afraid it is incorrect too...

little misunderstanding i think, but i don't think saki was arguing with u there. i could be wrong though!!! :wink:

[Sakirules]

[quote]

*cough* Proof, please. *cough*

You sure ain't got any.

[Jo Dawn]

I gotta go with Heretic on this one. They are not all equally strong. They're just not.

I know everyone just feels a need to defend their favorite, whoever it may be, but they're not equally strong. S'just the way it is.

[Ryona]

I totally agree with you, April! :D

[remain in light]

Here's my synopsis:
Leo gets the better of Raph, due to all the factors people have already mentioned (Raph's temper, Leo's training, etc etc). Leo is about to deliver the fatal blow, but then realizes he can't kill his brother (unless Raph went cuckoo for cocoa puffs and was threatening to kill innocent people or other members of the Turtle's posse or something. In that case, Leo would definetly "FINISH HIM!" as they say in those wacky Mortal Combat games). Leo lets him go, but then Raph, feeling so overwhelmed that he lost to that damn Leo who always seems to get the better of him, sneaks up on him and kills him. But then later on, Raph would probably feel so much angst and kill himself. That's my two cents.

That got me thinking about a Don/Mike battle to the death. Mike is most likely the better fighter, but Don seems to be way more focused. Hmm...

[NeoBix]

JO DAWN!!!!! ***BIG WARM HUG***

April sure is cute in that pic lol but then again April is always cute

Yea I think Mikey might beat Don in a fight, but he would need to stay focused... Donny can be pretty mean with his bo staff when he has to be though, so it would be a tough fight for sure!

[Barkworm]

Heretic, we're talking about fictional characters after all. You tend to take these things a bit too serious.

Not at all. Just making a statement of fact, something that the creators and others established very early on. Besides, the notion that all four would be "equally strong" is beyond ridiculous --- I have two brothers, and I can assure you we can not all lift the same amount of weights.

"Taking things too seriously" is a common defense against those that don't wish to have their views questioned.
My "view" is that I don't care which of those four phantasy creatures is the "strongest".

[moonfog]

all this crap about leo being leo being "level headed, calm, highly skilled, leader of the team" doesnt make as affective in a death match against raph who can easily lose his anger and stab his bro in the face after disarming his swords as quoted by splinter in the first cartoon.
raph would win

[Dane E5R]

... whoa whoa whoa.. hold on just one darn second.

I think I just had an epiphany or something... because... well, when you think about it...

couldn't Leonardo could just stab Raphael right in his forehead? Eh?

Sure, Raphael could TRY to stab Leo in the forehead, but, I mean... come on, let's get serious folks... do you REALLY think Raphael is that quick? Leo is MUCH quicker. Raphael is like a snail or something... maybe slower than a snail... so he's like a... well.. what's a creature that's slower than a snail? I guess I don't know.. but anyway... yea...

...Pardon me, this may sound harsh, but that's one of the dumbest things I've ever read. Raphael is a ninja. No ninja is "slower than a snail."

Anyway, Raphael is my favorite turtle (I bet no one would've guessed that), as I can relate to him on levels professionals would probably deem..Um.."unsound." 8) I've never felt so close to a fictional character. However even I gotta submit to the fact that when it comes down to it, Leo would beat him. As many have said, Raph's temper would just get in the way. I mean, if Raph's temper could cause him to lose to Mikey, Leo would absolutely beat him!

...But we'll always have Return to NY, Raph fans. No matter what anyone tries to say, fact is Raph kicked Leo's ass there. :D

[moonfog]

how did raph disappear in the fight against mikey?
if memory serves me correct, the other fighters only disappeared when their about to get stabbed, so what did mikey do to make raph disappear?

EDIT: i just asked my lil bro and he said raph ran into a wall, thats how he got defeated, so he didnt lose to mikey in a death match so thats out of the question.
raph would have either won or kill himself, because of his 'dont care if i die' attitude, added his ninja skills, would make him the deadliest turtle, therefore owning leos meditating @ss

[Dane E5R]

Mike beat Raph in a sparring match in the new 'toon (episode 4) and the original Mirage comic (Raphael micro-series) Which caused Raph to nearly kill him with a wrench. Still, Mike beat him fair and square because Raph was hot, and Mike was cool, even having fun with it. I don't doubt that Raph would give Leo a run for his money, but my bet is on Leonardo coming out on top because Raphael would inevitably lose his patience and go berserker. Leo would get angry, but not so much that he loses his head.

[Jo Dawn]

JO DAWN!!!!! ***BIG WARM HUG***



Heya, NeoBix!! *returns hug*

You have no idea how much I needed that today... :)

[Sakirules]

I gotta go with Heretic on this one. They are not all equally strong. They're just not.

I know everyone just feels a need to defend their favorite, whoever it may be, but they're not equally strong. S'just the way it is.


Yes they are. if you go to the official site it says that they all have the same height and weight.

[Sakirules]

all this crap about leo being leo being "level headed, calm, highly skilled, leader of the team" doesnt make as affective in a death match against raph who can easily lose his anger and stab his bro in the face after disarming his swords as quoted by splinter in the first cartoon.
raph would win

Actually it does help make it effective. Raph loses it it'll simply cloud his reason and that will cost him dearly. Raph would lose

[Jo Dawn]

I gotta go with Heretic on this one. They are not all equally strong. They're just not.

I know everyone just feels a need to defend their favorite, whoever it may be, but they're not equally strong. S'just the way it is.


Yes they are. if you go to the official site it says that they all have the same height and weight.

I realize what the official site says is their height and weight. Just because they're the same height and weight doesn't mean they're all the same strength.

It's different. Height and weight do not strength make.

[NeoBix]

JO DAWN!!!!! ***BIG WARM HUG***



Heya, NeoBix!! *returns hug*

You have no idea how much I needed that today... :)

Hey, that's what fellow turtle fans are for!! :wink:

[cqb101]

Leo. The fight would be long, but Leo would end up winning.

[Doppleganger]

Yeah I think Leonardo would win because of his cool head and he is the better fighter. :o Yikes! Some people seem to want the turtles to fight to the death. I don't think they would kill each other under any circumstances. They are brothers after all.

[KROW]

I think they would be at a stalemate. Neither one would want to fight to the death. But what I think would happen, Leo would win. He's more knowledgable in the arts of ninjitsu and Raph might make a mistake during the fight. Although I like Raph better, I give it to Leo.

One thing's for certain, it would be a L-O-N-G fight.

I stand by what I said before.

[Sakirules]

I realize what the official site says is their height and weight. Just because they're the same height and weight doesn't mean they're all the same strength.

It's different. Height and weight do not strength make.


Raph is the bravest. Not the strongest.

[JDavis]

Raph isn't really the bravest, necisarily, just the one most likely to not think about what he's doing before rushing into something head-first. But he is the strongest.

[Kazari]

Being Brave doesnt mean going out and looking for a fight..it means being strong when you HAVE to fight.

[Jephael]

Good lord, are you folks still arguing over who could beat who's @$$ into the ground?!

I think this topic needs to be locked cause it's just repeating the same friggin' remarks and just creating this endless loop pattern which needs to be brought to and end. I don't mean to be rude, but that's the way I feel.

[Krang]

Good idea. I'm really sick of these versus threads anyway...