The Conflict between the West and Middle East

[Anarky]

Well, this is the first attempt to create a discussion that might scratch on a political surface here. It actually might turn into a political discussion. So: DON'T MESS THIS UP, THIS IS THE FIRST AND ONLY CHANCE

Good, here's what it's all about. Yesterday the media in Germany started with their usual "Everybody panic!"-news coverage, because the Iranian Government said something not very nice to the US, it actually warned the US not to attack them, they'll lose.

This phenomenon is known as "Säbelrasseln" here. That term basically means that both nations try to impress each other.

My question now: What does your media tell you about this situation?

[That Matt Guy]

I haven't heard one thing about it.

[damnhooligan]

This is the first I've heard of it, and I've been watching the Pentagon Channel all day. I think, as Americans, we're just used to so many threats that after a while, they just don't have the impact they used to. Perhaps a case of crying "Wolf!"

[Anarky]

Well, either it's really a "Wolf!"-case, or, what just occured to me, the US-media wants this information to be kept secret. Although I really doubt that.

DH, you get German Television, right? Check RTL Teletext page 120. It's about all that has been leaking through. At least that's all I know of. (well, that plus that huge "OMG The US is going to conquer our planet and Bush is satan and only listens to his dad"-scare at another forum I tend to hang out)

[damnhooligan]

I get German cable, but my TV's NTSC so I can't pick up those PAL channels. But I haven't heard anything on CNN World and Five News both based in the UK either.

[Anarky]

Hmm, odd. I might really put research into that. See, I've been watching CNN for a short time today, I thought maybe I missed it, but apparently I didn't.

Well, for all those who speak German, here (http://n24.de/politik/ausland/index.php/a2005011916371354776) you'll find a pretty detailed article about what Germany is currently worrying about.

Maybe it's not important enough for US-media... that really is an odd phenomenon. I though, you as the US-people, should know more about this.

[Barkworm]

Now that's really interesting since the German media made it look like the US is definitely going to bomb Iran soon.

[That Matt Guy]

US government keeping THIS secret? Get real Anarky, if Germany is blabbing about it all over Europe then there is nothing to keep secret. I actually did read an article about this today and I don't see what the big deal is. Bush said he "wouldn't rule out the use of force" if Iran doesn't totally remove it's nukes and nuclear programs. What's wrong with that? It wasn't even a threat, he just claimed that force might be needed if Iran doesn't agree. Why did the German media go ape **** about this?

[Anarky]

German Media has had this anti-american position since the big scandal when GWB first was elected. Everything is good to them, as long as it makes people hate the US more. But, the irony, in the mid 90ies Germany was so blatantly pro-US, it was almost disgusting. Now they changed the view. And the funniest part: all these kids out there think they're major experts when it comes to being anti-american after watching the news once a week and having seen Fahrenheit 9/11.

[Barkworm]

I recently read that a huge majority of Germans hate Bush. When they were asked why, most of them couldn't even give an answer. :lol:

[Anarky]

I recently read that a huge majority of Germans hate Bush. When they were asked why, most of them couldn't even give an answer. :lol:

Suitable answers would be:

Adults:
"TV told us so"
"But I read that he is a bad guy"

Children:
"He is stupid"
"He is a warlord"
"TV told me so"

God, I hate those anti-americans. I can't agree with the government (can I even agree with a government?) but the US itself is a great country.

What I hate most is the fact that they call every single american stupid. Hey, I know a lot of americans and they are nowhere near stupid.

[Machias Banshee]

A lot of people go by stereotypes, which is one big problem. I wonder why Germany turned a 180..?

But yeah, I haven't heard anything about this either. I'm sure the extremists up here on campus will just Love this..

[Jamezer]

i havent heard anything about it, but i seriously doubt that we will attack iran. we have enuff on our plate with iraq, also i dont think that bush wants anymore bad press, so unless there is a good reason i dont think it will happen.

[Voltron]

I think Germany is pissed because we took out Saddam. With no Saddam, Germany doesn't cash in on the oil deal they had.

As for the problem of Iran and America: I doubt Bush can afford another Iraq. Sure, it's well and good that Saddam was taken out of power; but we're shelling out a pretty penny to do it. Americans probably wouldn't tolerate another war. (Unless it's those goofy ones who think Bush is the Second Coming)

On a personal note, some my friends went off to war and a few came back pretty roughed up. One lost his eye after getting nailed with some shrapnel. I don't want to see anyone else go over there to get injured or worse for now debunked causes.

[That Matt Guy]

One of my good friends from high school joined the Army soon after we all graduated. It was actually a decent thing for him to do, since he was a major pot head and was trying to turn his life around. He thought the military was a good place to start. He went through basic and was shipped out at the start of Operation Iraqi Freedom. He spent several months in Iraq, and came back a different person... he now spends his time in a local mental hospital, wrapped in a straight jacket. No joke.

I also heard he was writing death threats to his captain and fellow soldiers.

[Machias Banshee]

My brother is over there, along with a bunch of people I knew from High School. The stories I hear about how traumatized people get from warfare is... the stuff they go through could never be made up. Tim O'brien wrote a book about what he and his troop went through in Vietnam.

Its hard to see this happening to people we know... we havent seen or been part of a legitimate war in a long time. We had an entire generation grow up without experiencing a true 'homefront'.


It worries me how my brother will be once he comes back. But then, I havent talked to him in a decade... *sigh*

[damnhooligan]

I attend a local PTSD support group at the military hospital across the street from me, and most of the people are there because of battle related trauma. Some of the stories I hear are absolutely heart-wrenching, and make me tear up right now just thinking about it. Some of them may have to deal with PTSD for a few years, others, for their whole lives. But none of them ever forget what happened.

Yes, they all come back a little different, a little jaded and distant, but I honestly would be alarmed if they didn't. Even just residing in a combat zone is a harrowing experience.

[Anarky]

One of my best friends had his "Rekrutenschule" last year. That something like a boot camp. You learn discipline and order. For that your will is sort of broken. You get something like a diet-brainwashing. Anyways, not everyone takes it as good as they could, so there was this one guy in my buddy's unit who went nuts after 16 weeks, he scratched his arms and face open and threatened to kill people including himself. He was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia.

Bak to the subject: I am currently discussing with some kid that thinks that World War 3 is going to start tomorrow or something. She claims that she herself isn't a victim of the media, but hey, she uses words and idioms like "the glorious western world" and "preachers of hate"... I wonder where she got thoes.

People can be so stupid.

[Voltron]

World War 3 is a possibility at the moment, Anarky. If the North Korean situation heats up we may be staring the Apocolypse right in the face.

As for soldiers, my family is divided into the WWII group and the Vietnam group. My Uncle (Bless his soul) was through some real hard ****. He had to search for land mines with a metal detector. He told me this story that once he was doing it, and one of the men in his troop stepped on one that he didn't find. The guy's leg was blown off.

My father's friend was on his way home from Vietnam when he got shot in the head. It was his last day of his tour. Another one of my father's friends did three tours of Vietnam just to get his fill of fighting.

Most of the WWII soldiers have passed on. My grandfather never saw action (my grandmother insisted the Japanese were afraid of him.)

It's remarkable to hear the stories of soldiers who have been through war. I have the deepest respect for these guys. My uncle, especially-he still walks the beach with a metal detector.

[cqb101]

I can see this thread getting ugly, fast. I'd love to have a civilized discussion on this, tho.

[That Matt Guy]

Why does everyone think WWIII would be the end of the world? There is reason why the cold war stayed cold. People aren't stupid.

[Voltron]

Yeah, but some people are crazy. North Korea developed an atomic weapon; and I'm sure you'll agree that nothing good is going to come of that. I'm not saying that WWIII will be the end of civilization as we know it, or that it will even happen. I'm just saying that it's possible with the way things are going right now.

[Silent FOx]

Our Media in the US is quite pathetic. My dad was watching FOx News (extremely oonservatively biased) and they talk about it. I normally read the news from bbc or other internet sources because they are often free from bias.
And I like how we the US have the right to invade people for having weapons of mass destruction when we have the most in the world :ohwell: ? my $.02

[That Matt Guy]

Yeah, but some people are crazy. North Korea developed an atomic weapon; and I'm sure you'll agree that nothing good is going to come of that. I'm not saying that WWIII will be the end of civilization as we know it, or that it will even happen. I'm just saying that it's possible with the way things are going right now.


It depends on who they threaten with it. Does North Korea have an advanced enough guidance system to send a missle to US soil? Probably not. Could they strike a US allie such as South Korea or Japan? Yes. That's an even bigger worry.

And I like how we the US have the right to invade people for having weapons of mass destruction when we have the most in the world :ohwell: ? my $.02

We have the most? I think we only have enough to destroy the whole world twice.

We've done a great job keeping them away from the Russians, Pakistanis, Indians, Chinese, French, and English haven't we? God only knows how much stuff Russia has laying around.

[Anarky]

We have the most? I think we only have enough to destroy the whole world twice.

That is the best thing I've read today :D

And as for the A-bomb of the Koreans. Actually a nuclear wepaon is more useful when you have it. Because when you use it you destroyed something and then the whole world is against you, which is rather silly. So better have an A-bomb, tell everyone that you have one and then the rest of the world has good reasons not to attack you.

[ThirdMarioBro]

I'll just say this. If they ever draft me to go blow up Japan, I'll kill myself. Yeah, you all knew I was going to say that.

WWIII won't be the end of the world, but it will be the birth of living in an atomic wasteland with clean water becoming gold, and food being mutated due to radiation poisoning.

[Voltron]

That is the best thing I've read today :D

And as for the A-bomb of the Koreans. Actually a nuclear wepaon is more useful when you have it. Because when you use it you destroyed something and then the whole world is against you, which is rather silly. So better have an A-bomb, tell everyone that you have one and then the rest of the world has good reasons not to attack you.


That's not necessarily the case, Anarky. If North Korea nukes Japan, then the US will most likely declare war on North Korea. With the US and North Korea going at it, there is a good chance that the Chinese will jump into the fray. Add NATO to the mix and presto: WWIII.

[Anarky]

But, you see an A-bomb really is more useful if you have it instead of using it. I mean, a threat like "You set foot on our country, we shall nuke your capitol!" is really scary.

Well, of course it'd produce something that will be called WWIII. But the north koreans aren't necessarily stupid, so they porbably won't nuje anything.

[That Matt Guy]

Exactly. North Korea wouldn't have anything to gain by heaving nukes at random nearby countries, except maybe massive retaliation by foreign powers. They know this.

[Andrew NDB]

So... a thing happened today.

[Barkworm]

Wow, the gems you can find here. I miss damnhooligan, she was awesome.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

In New Zealand, the establishment media is by and large Pro-USA and Pro-Israel, while the populace (with the exception of many super old people) is mostly Pro-Palestine.

In the current conflict, our current right wing government chose to side with Trump and Netanyahu. Just another reason as to why they are widely hated and will be voted out in the 2026 election.

[Mayhem]

View inside Iran, which perfectly conflates with my own viewpoint here, partly because my brother has two Iranian friends whose family escaped the carnage that was 1979 and came to the UK, and I’ve spoken to them about what happened. There’s also a well known stand up comedienne here called Shapi Korsandi who has often talked about similar in her routines,


https://i.ibb.co/k22R07yP/IMG-4232.jpg


As for the aftermath, if true, not really surprising as you’d prepare for eventualities…


https://i.ibb.co/7x4Bf2C8/IMG-4233.jpg (https://ibb.co/kV1z7QBk)

[CyberCubed]

Considering this thread is from 20 years ago (2005) it really just proves nothing ever changes. The middle east will forever be at war, people will always be keeping an eye on North Korea, and everyone will keep spouting, "World War III is inevitable" over and over.

It really does bring back memories people were saying the same things during the George W. Bush administration as now, I guess history just repeats itself.

[ToTheNines]

Operation Iranian Freedom! What could go wrong?

[Prowler]

The mentions of the so called future WW3 are amusing. I've been hearing about WW3 being nearby ever since the 9/11 attacks, at least. But I'm sure that has been a thing way before that.

Many wars have been fought in the last several decades and will continue to be fought. But a world war? Literally no one would gain anything from it. It would be the end of mankind.

[CyberCubed]

It's actually the main reason nobody attacks Russia, because it would trigger a World War. Why do you think nobody stopped Putin after all this time?

[Prowler]

It's actually the main reason nobody attacks Russia, because it would trigger a World War. Why do you think nobody stopped Putin after all this time?
Well, and also because invading Russia and being successful at it is very difficult. Just ask Napoleon and Hitler how invading Russia went for them...

[ProphetofGanja]

So... a thing happened today.

Jesus Christ, talk about a necro bump :lol:

Well, and also because invading Russia and being successful at it is very difficult. Just ask Napoleon and Hitler how invading Russia went for them...

I dunno, drone warfare really changed the game

[Barkworm]

Operation Iranian Freedom! What could go wrong?
Iranians here don‘t seem to consider any of this. All I see from friends are party pics while all Persian restaurants in the center Hesse area (there are quite a few!) are completely booked out for the next couple of days.

I‘m sure the US government has no idea where they are going with this but the reaction from secular Iranians is unanimously positive.

[Andrew NDB]

Iranians here don‘t seem to consider any of this. All I see from friends are party pics while all Persian restaurants in the center Hesse area (there are quite a few!) are completely booked out for the next couple of days.

I‘m sure the US government has no idea where they are going with this but the reaction from secular Iranians is unanimously positive.

The same here in Seattle. I was driving up north yesterday and there was like caravans of cars with flags and people hooting out of the side of their cars on the bridges in downtown, super happy.

[Mayhem]

So Trump apparently has had a meltdown to the heads of armament companies in the US after this initial volley of attacks into Iran and then realising American stocks of certain missiles were depleted last year defending Israel, and haven't been restocked by anywhere near enough since. So of course it's the defensive companies fault for not making them fast enough (even though they outlined how quickly they can be made in the past) and not massive overreach as usual.

Whereas it is estimated Iran has up to 100k of those drones we've already seen in action...

[Mayhem]

Plenty going on and I don’t just mean Israel bombing pictures of helicopters and jets on Iranian territory… or that apparently the war is already costing $1B per day. Or Krusti the Clown will be replaced, albeit this is like ******** your pants and then running home to change your shirt.

Two key US partners have arrested Israeli agents on their soil for planning the very attacks now being blamed on Iran. Saudi Arabia and Qatar have detained Mossad operatives attempting to carry out bombings in the Gulf, according to the American commentator Tucker Carlson. The claims, if true, expose a covert war being waged not just against Tehran, but against the United States' own allies.

Mossad infamous for their dirty tricks stands accused of plotting to destabilise the very states hosting American military bases. Military sources in Tehran also claim the recent strike on Saudi Aramco, a facility critical to global energy supplies, was not an Iranian attack at all. They call it an Israeli false flag, designed to frame Iran and drag the Gulf monarchies deeper into a war that serves Tel Aviv's interests alone.

Nearly 800 Iranians are dead. This was never a clean war of liberation as that idiot in The White House claims. It is a dirty game of betrayal, Israel attempting to wipe out perceived enemies, the US once again trying to steal other country's resources.

Here in the UK, the MoD confirm that the drone that hit the base in Cyprus did not launch from Iran, and is also being considered a potential attack from Israel.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

6 dead American soldiers (atleast what US has confirmed) is shameful and should've never happened.

Don't die for Israel! You owe them nothing, no Holocaust guilt, no foreign aid and no boots on the ground.

[Andrew NDB]

My general opinion...

* Did I have any strong feelings about taking out Iran or facilitating a regime change before or after this attack? Not really. But this isn't a nice place. This is a place where -- in addition to many, many other things you could point to -- women "convicted" of crimes were made to be raped before their executions so that they would assuredly go to Hell. So there's no love lost here.

* Did this have to happen NOW? No, probably not. But there really isn't any question nuclear development on a weapons level goal remains a central objective there, discussions weren't going anywhere and my country is "Big Satan" to the ruling regime there and "Death to America" and all that. We probably have to take them at their word.

* Did the idea of attacking Iran frighten me previously? Of course! As a kid growing up in the 80s and 90s there was plenty of imagery and media pretty much convincing everyone in my generation that if you so much as poke them, it'll be the Judgement Day nuclear explosions in Terminator 2 the next day. But last year's strike on their nuclear compound sort of proved... well... they're not super capable of doing much of anything, it seems. But I'm not going to lie, the idea of low-key terrorists deploying smaller-scale "dirty bombs" in cities still seems like a very possible threat. Or retaliation, in this case. But what could be the alternative to stopping them from nuclear weapons, at this point?

* Does this have anything to do with Trump wanting to hide stuff from the Epstein Files? No, that's stupid. Though I suppose a case could be made Trump was advised that there would be a lot of celebratory press on the Iranian/Iranian-American side of things as an effort to "turn the page" on a lot of the general hysteria going on -- and sure enough, there was. That it lines up with negotiations with Iran going in circles is a nice coincidence, but Iran really DID kill about 30,000 protesters over the last couple of months, ones largely looking to get the promise of our aid.

* Did Iran have to be dealt with similarly, at some point? Probably, yes. It's hard to imagine any other outcome having just recently seen what happens when the people tried to rise up. And I'm not sure waiting for the next democrat presidency to try and smooth things over with Iran by handing them billions of dollars again would be a great idea for anybody.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Do you think American troops are worth sacrificing for this operation, or the billions of dollars spent?

It's okay to say no, and it doesn't mean you are siding with Iran. I don't care about Iran, I just don't want my country involved (and so far, my country has diplomatically supported U.S. and Israel).

[Andrew NDB]

Do you think American troops are worth sacrificing for this operation, or the billions of dollars spent?

I think the idea that ANY kind of acts of warfare that do or even MAY cost American troops -- ever -- are ones that should be frowned on, removed from the table or discounted is a modern day lunacy. I think we can quibble about the timing or timeline to some extent but the stakes absolutely justify it, in this case.

It's okay to say no, and it doesn't mean you are siding with Iran. I don't care about Iran, I just don't want my country involved (and so far, my country has diplomatically supported U.S. and Israel).

I think you'll be OK, man.

[Barkworm]

If anyone still cared about international law, that would be the part people should frown upon. But the big players have been wiping their asses with legality in general for years now so WHATEVER, right?

[Jester]

Call me a conspiracy theorist, but does anyone else think taking out Mudero in Venezuela was intentionally done before attacking Iran so America would control Venezuelan oil in an attempt to lesson the blow if the war disrupts Mid-East supplies?

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Call me a conspiracy theorist, but does anyone else think taking out Mudero in Venezuela was intentionally done before attacking Iran so America would control Venezuelan oil in an attempt to lesson the blow if the war disrupts Mid-East supplies?

I think that is pretty much a fact.

[ToTheNines]

Maybe. Gas prices aren’t looking good right now.

[Andrew NDB]

Maybe. Gas prices aren’t looking good right now.

Mostly that's due to the state level, at this point. Like my state, shesus.

https://i.ibb.co/60KLhgJb/647801377-1465639628259816-3821801687761548963-n.jpg

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I think you'll be OK, man.

Not really. I'm not in the military, but my country is a slave to the US and supporting a foreign war negatively impacts our everyday lives.

We spy on our own citizens and give the U.S. our intelligence, we have an FBI office here, and we support America and Israel's wars with foreign aid and sometimes troops.

That's called being cucked. Being cucked is a bad thing.

[IndigoErth]

Call me a conspiracy theorist, but does anyone else think taking out Mudero in Venezuela was intentionally done before attacking Iran so America would control Venezuelan oil in an attempt to lesson the blow if the war disrupts Mid-East supplies?
It did also cross my mind. I'm not one for conspiracies, but that seems a bit too "coincidental."

[Mayhem]

It did also cross my mind. I'm not one for conspiracies, but that seems a bit too "coincidental."
Oh that’s definitely the angle. Problem is, their oil isn’t processable in the US afaik.

[Andrew NDB]

Not really. I'm not in the military, but my country is a slave to the US and supporting a foreign war negatively impacts our everyday lives.

We spy on our own citizens and give the U.S. our intelligence, we have an FBI office here, and we support America and Israel's wars with foreign aid and sometimes troops.

That's called being cucked. Being cucked is a bad thing.

I guess walk me through your day to day as a thought experiment as to how this is impacting you on your day to day? If you'll humor me.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I guess walk me through your day to day as a thought experiment as to how this is impacting you on your day to day? If you'll humor me.

Well, I spend my day to day knowing my country is cucked and a slave to foreign inteference by a cabal that seeks total control. That's a huge insult to a nation's sovereignty and any decent person's self-respect no matter how you put it.

Things like material conditions don't matter as much as having an independent national identity and self-determination. Screw being owned by "them". Being our own people and making our own decisions are the most important things for the nation.

[Barkworm]

Despicable. (https://www.nytimes.com/2026/03/08/world/middleeast/iran-minab-school-strike.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share)

[Mayhem]

And the claim will be, like Israel bombing Gaza, they put civilians near military targets to try and stop them being targetted, and when they are, then the outrage happens...

[FredWolfLeonardo]

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[Andrew NDB]

And the claim will be, like Israel bombing Gaza, they put civilians near military targets to try and stop them being targetted, and when they are, then the outrage happens...

Or malfunctions. Like Holy Ukraine accidentally bombing this or that.

[IndigoErth]

5BumE9rI6js?si=PZXEoX2nLtLgLsrv

As expected, he said what he had to in order to get votes, but it was wholly predictable that, since he can't run again, the guardrails would be off in a 2nd term and he'd just do whatever the hell he wants.

I remember when people would complain about Bush flip flopping... now in less than two weeks we've got Trump going on about gas being low in price -- based on freakin' Iowa of all places, a price that isn't anywhere near reality for most -- and now he has shrugged at prices that have quickly jumped after attacking Iran?

[FredWolfLeonardo]

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/pentagon-says-about-140-u-s-troops-have-been-injured-in-iran-war-so-far-8-severely

Pentagon says about 140 U.S. troops have been injured in Iran war so far, 8 severely.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/trump-administration-estimates-cost-iran-wars-first-two-days-56-bln-source-says-2026-03-10/

Cost of first two days of war for the U.S, $5.6 Billion.

[Barkworm]

TACO. Soon.

[Mayhem]

Not while Bibi is blackmailing the shots.

[ToTheNines]

Israel first.

[member_removed]

Not while Bibi is blackmailing the shots.

No TACO's while Bibi has the unredacted Epstein files.

[Mayhem]

No TACO's while Bibi has the unredacted Epstein files.
And if the photos are to be believed, also harbouring Epstein and Ghislain...

(the person on camera pleading the Fifth recently in a deposition was NOT her)

[Mayhem]

The Lockheed Martin Twitter account admitting the strike on Iran was planned months and months ago?


https://i.ibb.co/SXkPrZLM/IMG-4307.jpg

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Why hasn't the Iranian regime been overthrown yet?

I was told by Facebook Boomers that EVERYONE in Iran hates the regime and that the regime was TOAST.

Every passing day the Iranian girls can't wear bikinis in public and run an OnlyFans makes me sadder and sadder.

Oh well, any day now.

[Andrew NDB]

You guys win. Who I am to argue with such facts?

[Mayhem]

Why hasn't the Iranian regime been overthrown yet?
I get the impression many are/were expecting the US to do that…

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/mar/14/anti-regime-iranians-turn-on-trump-us

[Barkworm]

Why hasn't the Iranian regime been overthrown yet?

I was told by Facebook Boomers that EVERYONE in Iran hates the regime and that the regime was TOAST.

Every passing day the Iranian girls can't wear bikinis in public and run an OnlyFans makes me sadder and sadder.

Oh well, any day now.

I don't agree with the technicalities of this war but the Iranian regime is a bunch of murderers. Do not trivialise their atrocities.

[Andrew NDB]

How about Iran just hanging that wrestler in the public square? That was a hoot. Or maybe Israel™ cooked that up somehow, nefariously.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

How about Iran just hanging that wrestler in the public square? That was a hoot. Or maybe Israel™ cooked that up somehow, nefariously.

I thought you had given up as per your earlier post. Well, that was probably sarcastic on your part, but I was hoping it wasn't. So what's the argument here? Iran hung a wrestler, therefore America's invasion is more justified?

Iran does things I may not like. Russia does things I may not like. North Korea does things I may not like.The part where you lose me is trying to translate these internal affairs of a regime into justification for the war you support.

How's that 4-day war going for you by the way? Enjoying the gas prices going up? Happy that the Pentagon has requested $200 Billion for the war? Sleeping tight knowing that Iran is no longer 2 minutes away from nukes they were totally going to use to blow up all of the West?

[Andrew NDB]

How's that 4-day war going for you by the way? Enjoying the gas prices going up? Happy that the Pentagon has requested $200 Billion for the war? Sleeping tight knowing that Iran is no longer 2 minutes away from nukes they were totally going to use to blow up all of the West?

I'm fine, thanks. But wasn't it you who were saying your whole way of life has been uprooted and you were basically being miserable in your country as a result, somehow?

[Barkworm]

I'm miserable paying insane amounts of money for Diesel because of this war.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I'm fine, thanks. But wasn't it you who were saying your whole way of life has been uprooted and you were basically being miserable in your country as a result, somehow?

'Miserable' is bit of a stretch. As long as I have my faith in God, I'm not miserable regardless of where I live.

But as far as the state of the nation goes, not ideal. Everything (especially gas) is getting far more expensive as a direct result of the war and our government is strongly weighing putting in covid-style fuel restrictions.

Additionally, our US-puppet government is considering sending the New Zealand Navy to help America force open the Strait of Hormuz which is a terrible idea because its gonna cost us a ton of money and its gonna get our troops killed.

Look, once this disastrous war is over and everyone will call it a huge mistake in hindsight, you can pretend to have always opposed the war and I won't hold it against you. Deal?

[Andrew NDB]

Look, once this disastrous war is over and everyone will call it a huge mistake in hindsight, you can pretend to have always opposed the war and I won't hold it against you. Deal?

Look, I don't want to be adversarial to you. You live in a completely different country than me in a different walk of life.

But if you want to place bets... let's revisit the cost of gas in... 3 months? And then let's see. Feel free to quote this post and put egg in my face. I could be wrong.

[ToTheNines]

Whatever happened to this guy?

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I'm miserable paying insane amounts of money for Diesel because of this war.

Yeah it’s insane, killing me too. You drive a Volkswagen?

[Andrew NDB]

Heh. I've actually been revisiting a lot of those old 2016 and even 2020 debates and have been finding various nuggets here and there.

[Barkworm]

Yeah it’s insane, killing me too. You drive a Volkswagen?

Oh riiiight! The guy from Germany HAS GOT to drive a VW! What else?


But yeah, we've got one. :lol:

[member_removed]

But if you want to place bets... let's revisit the cost of gas in... 3 months? And then let's see. Feel free to quote this post and put egg in my face. I could be wrong.

Lucky for you JD Vance has been hard work lowering the price of eggs.

[member_removed]

Taco gunna taco.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel-new-attacks-tehran-9.7138210

Oh yes, an unnamed Iranian leader. Right.

[Mayhem]

I mean... yeah... the 25th can't be too far away, surely? :roll:


https://i.ibb.co/93Sk3zdr/655444223-10105570700209289-7570698171641000092-n.jpg

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I think there will be Boots on the Ground.

[Andrew NDB]

I think there will be Boots on the Ground.

https://i.ibb.co/pjpnVsHJ/69c40fb7060cb69c40fb7060cc.jpg

[FredWolfLeonardo]

A whole civilization will die tonight, never to be brought back again. I don’t want that to happen, but it probably will. However, now that we have Complete and Total Regime Change, where different, smarter, and less radicalized minds prevail, maybe something revolutionarily wonderful can happen, WHO KNOWS? We will find out tonight, one of the most important moments in the long and complex history of the World. 47 years of extortion, corruption, and death, will finally end. God Bless the Great People of Iran!

Notice how Trump said a whole Civilization will die, not a Regime because according to him, there has already been Regime Change in Iran (Wrong, the Islamic Republic is still in charge). Civilization = Civilians.

What does Trump mean by his opening words that imply the total destruction of Iran? We will find out by Tuesday 8pm Eastern Time, but one can hope it's not as ominous and reckless as what the wording suggests.

[FrederikWolferson]

Willingness to end an ancient civilization in a genocidal fire for Jewish ambitions is not a sign of sanity.

[Andrew NDB]

"Did you hear that, guys? Trump just said something outrageous!" <---- don't be the person still saying this in 2026.

Stop it. Don't be that dumb. And in this particular case he is almost undoubtedly beta testing different levels of hyperbole to see what -- if anything -- will get a deal done. If none of it works I'd expect a war machine response that is probably more than the IRGC expects but less than anyone is fearing.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

"Did you hear that, guys? Trump just said something outrageous!" <---- don't be the person still saying this in 2026.

Stop it. Don't be that dumb. And in this particular case he is almost undoubtedly beta testing different levels of hyperbole to see what -- if anything -- will get a deal done. If none of it works I'd expect a war machine response that is probably more than the IRGC expects but less than anyone is fearing.

Lying is not good. It makes Trump look weak and pathetic.

No one will take the boy who cried wolf seriously anymore.

And why are you saying Trump is testing out a deal?

Trump said the War is WON. Don't you dare contradict your master.

[Andrew NDB]

Lying is not good. It makes Trump look weak and pathetic.

No one will take the boy who cried wolf seriously anymore.

The goal is always to be unpredictable or a "loose cannon" in situations like these. Probably so Vance can be like, "I dunno, IRGC guys... I can't control Trump! If you don't agree to a deal I don't know if I can hold him back!" so they can try to Good Cop/Bad Cop things. As opposed to someone like Joe Biden who just announced to the world, "The US would probably be OK if Putin just did like a small military engagement in Ukraine," thus rolling out the red carpet for Russia to do just that. Which they did.

And why are you saying Trump is testing out a deal?

I'm not. Read my post again.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

The goal is always to be unpredictable or a "loose cannon" in situations like these. Probably so Vance can be like, "I dunno, IRGC guys... I can't control Trump! If you don't agree a deal I don't know if I can hold him back!" so they can try to Good Cop/Bad Cop things. As opposed to someone like Joe Biden who just announced to the world, "The US would probably be OK if Putin just did like a small military engagement in Ukraine," thus rolling out the red carpet for Russia to do just that. Which they did.

Oooohhhhhhhh. Very scary and unpredictable indeed.

Like how Trump gave the 48 hour deadline before and then we got absolutely nothing.

I'm not. Read my post again.

Come on man, testing out a deal. It's much shorter and gets the message across.

If I said, "Trump is is undoubtebly beta testing different levels of hyperbole to see what if anything will, get a deal done", that would not be concise which is uncool.

[Andrew NDB]

Come on man, testing out a deal. It's much shorter and gets the message across.

If I said, "Trump is is undoubtebly beta testing different levels of hyperbole to see what if anything will, get a deal done", that would not be concise which is uncool.

I know since you mentioned you are a Muslim that English may not be your first language but "Testing out a deal" and "Testing out different levels of hyperbole to see if he can GET a deal" are not remotely the same thing.

And "Testing out a deal" would imply there already is one. There isn't. We're pretty far from that, apparently.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I know since you mentioned you are a Muslim that English may not be your first language but "Testing out a deal" and "Testing out different levels of hyperbole to see if he can GET a deal" are not remotely the same thing.

And "Testing out a deal" would imply there already is one. There isn't. We're pretty far from that, apparently.

Why are we even arguing about grammar when Trump said that the war is already won? Pinching over grammar is uncool.

No need for Trump to be "Testing out different levels of hyperbole to see if he can GET a deal" if the war is won, right?

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Ceasefire is in effect, mediated by Pakistan. Iran has stated that the ceasefire is contingent on accepting its 10 points, which are as follows:

1. Commitment to non-aggression.

2. Continued Iranian control over the Strait of Hormuz.

3. Acceptance of uranium enrichment.

4. Lifting of all primary sanctions.

5. Lifting of all secondary sanctions.

6. Termination of all resolutions of the UN Security Council

7. Termination of all resolutions of the IEAE Board of Governors.

8. Payments of compensation for Iran.

9. Withdrawal of American combat forces from the region.

10. Cessation of war on all fronts.

@Middle_East_Spectator

[Mayhem]

There was no discussion, it’s TACO again and ********ting around it.

[Daytona]

There was no discussion, it’s TACO again and ********ting around it.

Nope. He threatened, Iran blinked.

Normally all the democrats meltdown down were a hindrance but I think the fact that you guys went ape-**** over the last 24 hours may have actually been useful this time in convincing Iran they might be in serious ****.

Stock market futures are going crazy right now. Money talks. Things are looking pretty positive right now. Hopefully it sticks. Either way it’s clear democrats have no clue how Trump negotiates - they still don’t get it.

The goal is always to be unpredictable or a "loose cannon" in situations like these. Probably so Vance can be like, "I dunno, IRGC guys... I can't control Trump! If you don't agree a deal I don't know if I can hold him back!" so they can try to Good Cop/Bad Cop things. As opposed to someone like Joe Biden who just announced to the world, "The US would probably be OK if Putin just did like a small military engagement in Ukraine," thus rolling out the red carpet for Russia to do just that. Which they did..

You get it.


Some people have no idea how negotiation works. When someone asks how much you’re asking for the rare $100 toy you bought, you say $150. When they barter you down to $125 and you agree, that’s not “chickening out”. I’m sorry but that type of conclusion could only come from a child or someone extremely naive to the way things work.

But Democrats have to cling to “taco” every time Trump does something like this bc it’s their only way to try to save face after they call his initial comments crazy. So he’s either crazy or a chicken for not being crazy. It would bother me if they didn’t keep stepping on rakes. As is, it’s just pure comedy watching the left completely lose their grip on reality and make fools of themselves. Harsh but true.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Nope. He threatened, Iran blinked.

Normally all the democrats meltdown down were a hindrance but I think the fact that you guys went ape-**** over the last 24 hours may have actually been useful this time in convincing Iran they might be in serious ****.

Stock market futures are going crazy right now. Money talks. Things are looking pretty positive right now. Hopefully it sticks. Either way it’s clear democrats have no clue how Trump negotiates - they still don’t get it.

Trump is so scary that he got into a ceasefire with zero of the American military objectives fulfilled. Just to be clear:

1. Islamic Regime is still intact.
2. Nuclear enrichment is still on a table.
3. Iran still controls the Strait of Hormuz, and will be charging tolls .

Are you okay with those terms? How exactly do these terms leave Trump better off than before the war?

[Barkworm]

You get it.


Some people have no idea how negotiation works.

Hey, I deal with children a lot, I have seen this kind of "strategy" many times. If this is considered "negotiation", it says a lot about the times we live in.

[Daytona]

Trump is so scary that he got into a ceasefire with zero of the American military objectives fulfilled. Just to be clear:

1. Islamic Regime is still intact.
2. Nuclear enrichment is still on a table.
3. Iran still controls the Strait of Hormuz, and will be charging tolls .

Are you okay with those terms? How exactly do these terms leave Trump better off than before the war?

Bc we have decimated their army and equipment and have gotten them to bend their knee to a ceasefire in which we will now negotiate to make the world a safer place.

I suppose dem strategy will be to claim we will get nothing that we are asking for. And then when we don’t get every single thing we asked for, but get the most important stuff, they will again show that they don’t understand negotiation.


Hey, I deal with children a lot, I have seen this kind of "strategy" many times. If this is considered "negotiation", it says a lot about the times we live in.

It really doesn’t though. Negotiation has always been about asking more than what you want. I feel bad for anyone who ever tried to sell something without understanding this.

[FrederikWolferson]

Bc we have decimated their army and equipment and have gotten them to bend their knee to a ceasefire in which we will now negotiate to make the world a safer place.

I suppose dem strategy will be to claim we will get nothing that we are asking for. And then when we don’t get every single thing we asked for, but get the most important stuff, they will again show that they don’t understand negotiation.




It really doesn’t though. Negotiation has always been about asking more than what you want. I feel bad for anyone who ever tried to sell something without understanding this.

Who's we,dude?

[Daytona]

Who's we,dude?

The US primarily.

[Andrew NDB]

The US primarily.

Don't worry, now he'll swing around and talk about Israel, or something, since you took his "bait."

[FrederikWolferson]

The US primarily.

And how are YOU benefiting from this?

[ToTheNines]

Oh riiiight! The guy from Germany HAS GOT to drive a VW! What else?


But yeah, we've got one. :lol:

:lol: too easy!

"Did you hear that, guys? Trump just said something outrageous!" <---- don't be the person still saying this in 2026.

Stop it. Don't be that dumb. And in this particular case he is almost undoubtedly beta testing different levels of hyperbole to see what -- if anything -- will get a deal done. If none of it works I'd expect a war machine response that is probably more than the IRGC expects but less than anyone is fearing.

Yeah, I mean come on.

We all came to know and love Trump from his whacky Twitter persona a long long time ago. I know he’s crafted this image of himself that it’s still him on there saying whatever he wants, but at this point it’s almost certainly a team of White House staffers carefully crafting these, as they know THE BASE still loves it and the libs and they media will dissect every letter.

Social media is just another PR tool. Sure Trump’s “truths” and the IRGC’s AI Lego videos are great fun, but that’s not how they’re actually communicating. We don’t hear about anything until after the fact, and even then we’ll never know the full details of what’s actually being said between the various parties.

[Daytona]

And how are YOU benefiting from this?

Terrorist regimes are bad. Personally I just like to see Dems imploding again though. The more people who realize that party has gone completely overboard the better.

[Andrew NDB]

The correct answer is "We benefit by our threat level of getting nuked by Iran for the crime of being their 'Big Satan' being returned to being 0."

But then you'll probably get a bunch of "How would we KNOW they would have built a nuke until they do?" type blowback. You won't get anywhere once that starts, really, so its really best to just let them expose their own stupidity at that point.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I hope Iran never nukes America like how North Korea has.

I suppose dem strategy will be to claim we will get nothing that we are asking for. And then when we don’t get every single thing we asked for, but get the most important stuff, they will again show that they don’t understand negotiation.

If the most important stuff doesn't include opposition to Nuclear Enrichment, Control over the Strait, and a lack of Regime change, then I'm all for it.

I'm no Liberal, I can see when Trump has done something right. The ceasefire was the right move, especially as its heavily favourable to Iran with their 10 point plan.

[ToTheNines]

Israel killing civilians again. This time in Lebanon: https://apnews.com/article/israel-lebanon-hezbollah-beirut-strikes-9402965418687c634d4a157c966ec6ea

[FredWolfLeonardo]

The ceasefire is essentially broken. Iran has closed the Strait again (that should not be possible because all the Trump supporters say Iran is too weak to fight now).

How did that threat from Trump work out? We're back to square one.

[Mayhem]

Needless to say the right is spinning it that Iran attacked first, but we all know Israel did, claiming Lebanon was not part of the deal. But Pakistan and Iran are claiming it was.

[Andrew NDB]

Israel killing civilians again. This time in Lebanon: https://apnews.com/article/israel-lebanon-hezbollah-beirut-strikes-9402965418687c634d4a157c966ec6ea

It was a "commercial and residiential zone," it looks like. Silly terrorists. Next time they better be sure and put their Hezbollah guys in an appropriately marked "terrorist zone."

[ToTheNines]

Shalom, Andrew

[FrederikWolferson]

It was a "commercial and residiential zone," it looks like. Silly terrorists. Next time they better be sure and put their Hezbollah guys in an appropriately marked "terrorist zone."

This was typed by somebody in an IDF uniform.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

All U.S. Ships, Aircraft, and Military Personnel, with additional Ammunition, Weaponry, and anything else that is appropriate and necessary for the lethal prosecution and destruction of an already substantially degraded Enemy, will remain in place in, and around, Iran, until such time as the REAL AGREEMENT reached is fully complied with. If for any reason it is not, which is highly unlikely, then the “Shootin’ Starts,” bigger, and better, and stronger than anyone has ever seen before. It was agreed, a long time ago, and despite all of the fake rhetoric to the contrary - NO NUCLEAR WEAPONS and, the Strait of Hormuz WILL BE OPEN & SAFE. In the meantime our great Military is Loading Up and Resting, looking forward, actually, to its next Conquest. AMERICA IS BACK!

Here we go again. This dog is all bark and no bite.

[Barkworm]

It was a "commercial and residiential zone," it looks like. Silly terrorists. Next time they better be sure and put their Hezbollah guys in an appropriately marked "terrorist zone."

In the other thread you ask people "not to be dumb". Then, you post something like this? If you like to spin it that way, aren't the civilians at fault for even being near the terrorists? Would you write something this shameful if you had lost someone close to you, just because they happened to be somewhere close to some criminals?

[ToTheNines]

Andrew every time a terrorist state murders civilians:

https://i.imgur.com/taqUiyB_d.webp?maxwidth=760&fidelity=grand

[ToTheNines]

Real talk though… Lebanon has disavowed and condemned
Hezbollah. Be honest, how would you feel if the Mexican government bombed an apartment complex full of US citizens in order to kill a handful of Cartel members?

[Andrew NDB]

Real talk though… Lebanon has disavowed and condemned
Hezbollah. Be honest, how would you feel if the Mexican government bombed an apartment complex full of US citizens in order to kill a handful of Cartel members?

Or to flip it and be more accurate to the situation, if it was after months/years of the Mexican government allowing cartels in parts of northern Mexico to send missiles to various parts of the southernmost United States and there is actionable intel about where the people doing that are staying on a given day in Mexico? And, oh, the Mexican governement disavows the cartel yet, are clearly not doing anything about it?

But yeah, "I bet the intel is wrong/a lie/Israeli [fill-in-the-blank]/Tucker/Candace said, etc.."

You can always tell which side is which because one side, all they have is narratives. No facts. Just narratives. More and more narratives, about everything. "ICE is jumping out of vans and breaking into people's houses and putting citizens into gulags!" or "There's a war on black people by the police!" "School to prison pipeline!" "Not all citizens are able to get ID!" and so on, when none of that is happening. It is a fantasy. But the narratives continue.

[ToTheNines]

I guess so man. Mexico was Israel in my analogy, but sure.

[Andrew NDB]

I guess so man. Mexico was Israel in my analogy, but sure.

To answer your metaphor directly, how would I feel if the Mexican government bombed an apartment complex full of US citizens in order to kill a handful of Cartel members? It wouldn't matter how I feel. We'd immediately blow away wherever the bombs came from in Mexico and the real news story all over the leftist media and web would be all about how in our return fire we may have hit a couple civilians (who forgot to wear their cartel ID tags that day, of course) next to where the missiles came from. And that probably Israel bullied us into doing that somehow.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Andrew is from a generation where the Jewish state must be supported at all times because of the Holocaust.

[Andrew NDB]

Andrew is from a generation where the Jewish state must be supported at all times because of the Holocaust.

And, as you've said repeatedly, you literally want a dictator. But I've got the insane take on all of this, somehow.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

And, as you've said repeatedly, you literally want a dictator. But I've got the insane take on all of this, somehow.

Stay on topic. Yes, wanting a strongman dictator is not as insane as unconditionally supporting a state on the basis of something 80 years ago.

Try harder next time.

[Barkworm]

Facts: Civilians were killed.

It's always cute to see how the far right (i.e. the "alternative facts" crowd) has occupied the term "narrative". My crowd wants it back. No, not the left but us literature scholars.

[Andrew NDB]

Facts: Civilians were killed.

The narrative is that we somehow KNOW these civilians were in no ways members of Hezbollah or friendly with them. The narrative is that this is somehow indiscriminate bombing, that surely it is just the IDF being evil for evil's sake, twirling their mustaches as they press big red buttons from afar. That we somehow know better because... what, exactly?

[FredWolfLeonardo]

When people get killed in Israel, I assume they are innocent civilians.

When people get killed in Lebanon, your first question is whether the people killed are linked to terrorists.

You may think covid really enlightened you about the government, but if the government declares something as a terrorist, you will perfectly fall in line with their agenda, hook, line and sinker.

[Andrew NDB]

When people get killed in Israel, I assume they are innocent civilians.

Why wouldn't you? They aren't pretending to not be lobbing missiles indiscriminately when they launch their missile salvos at Israel. They've never attempted to "hide the ball" on this at any point.

When people get killed in Lebanon, your first question is whether the people killed are linked to terrorists.

Because Israel DOES profess to be hitting selective targets based on intel.

You may think covid really enlightened you about the government, but if the government declares something as a terrorist, you will perfectly fall in line with their agenda, hook, line and sinker.

One day, maybe you will get your wish and see a dictator in the United States. Of course, you don't actually live in the United States, but you can be happy from afar.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Because Israel DOES profess to be hitting selective targets based on intel.


Why do you believe in what they profess? You have no problem disagreeing with the American government at times, so what makes this foreign country different?

They're not your people so the defence is strange. You're not racially or religiously Jewish and you're not Israeli, so what's going on here?

Since you're not religious, I think its safe to rule out Zionist interpretations of Biblical End Time prophecies as your reason.

The only other reason I can think of why you are defending Israel is because feeling guilty over the Holocaust, but correct me if I'm wrong.

[member_removed]

Bc we have decimated their army and equipment and have gotten them to bend their knee to a ceasefire in which we will now negotiate to make the world a safer place.
Right, so then if their military has been “decimated”. Why is the straight still closed?

Nope. He threatened, Iran blinked.
Normally all the democrats meltdown down were a hindrance but I think the fact that you guys went ape-**** over the last 24 hours may have actually been useful this time in convincing Iran they might be in serious ****.

Stock market futures are going crazy right now. Money talks. Things are looking pretty positive right now. Hopefully it sticks. Either way it’s clear democrats have no clue how Trump negotiates - they still don’t get it.



You get it.


Some people have no idea how negotiation works. When someone asks how much you’re asking for the rare $100 toy you bought, you say $150. When they barter you down to $125 and you agree, that’s not “chickening out”. I’m sorry but that type of conclusion could only come from a child or someone extremely naive to the way things work.

But Democrats have to cling to “taco” every time Trump does something like this bc it’s their only way to try to save face after they call his initial comments crazy. So he’s either crazy or a chicken for not being crazy. It would bother me if they didn’t keep stepping on rakes. As is, it’s just pure comedy watching the left completely lose their grip on reality and make fools of themselves. Harsh but true.

So, Trump’s Negation plan is.
Leave the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (and by all means please explain why that was a terrible deal)
Now Iran will be controlling the Straight and charging a toll. How will that toll help rising oil prices? (oh wait, that’s right, lets lift sanctions on Iranian oil). So the Iran didn’t have control and now they will? Great!
What will Iran do with the toll? Rebuild and equip their military? More drones and see mines.
Great negation techniques.
No problem exists. Create a problem, drop the ball, tank the economy. Great plan!
Awesome 5D chess.
Keep listening to Bibi.

[Mayhem]

Fun times…


https://i.ibb.co/vxDDmnt8/IMG-4402.jpg

[Andrew NDB]

It turns out you can, actually.

[sdp]

thread theme:
h5IUq-XBTI8

[Mayhem]

It turns out you can, actually.
Left hand, right hand, I'm guessing, as some ships that had been in Iranian ports made it through...

[ranger_scout]

Finally some good news today.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/oil-prices-plunge-after-iran-says-strait-hormuz-open-commercial-shipping-traffic

[Daytona]

Lefties in shambles again

[Barkworm]

Diesel is still way more expensive than before this whole mess.

[Andrew NDB]

Diesel is still way more expensive than before this whole mess.

Which sucks for your country, since you rely so much on diesel. Especially those diesel imports which are at, what, about a 67% dependency? Because of all those green mandates and dismantling of power plants?

Germany should probably consider doing a little more than just sending minesweepers.

[sdp]

Diesel is still way more expensive than before this whole mess.

when news outlets report these things they use incorrect wording because they don't understand or simply want to mislead. I haven't checked prices but I'm guessing the futures are the ones that plunged, basically people betting on what the price will be in in the future. In the short term prices will take a while to stabilize as things go back to "normal'.
At the same time things are not going back to normal 100% as long as the war is still happening, not to mention futures could also rise just as quickly as they fell if things escalate again.

Which sucks for your country,

Well the US uses 4x more diesel than Germany. Even if you go per capita, the US still uses more diesel than Germany.

[ToTheNines]

Which sucks for your country, since you rely so much on diesel. Especially those diesel imports which are at, what, about a 67% dependency? Because of all those green mandates and dismantling of power plants?

Germany should probably consider doing a little more than just sending minesweepers.

Six seven!

[Andrew NDB]

Well the US uses 4x more diesel than Germany. Even if you go per capita, the US still uses more diesel than Germany.

Are we talking, to fuel our luxury SUVs/jacked up trucks that a lot of people are driving around in the US or to actually power our power infrastructure? I don't have any facts in front of me but my understanding is that Germany relies on diesel from other countries to largely power the huge shortfall they got on their actual power grid when demolishing/closing down (and they were very proud to do it) all their energy sources that were nuclear and fossil fuels-based. In the U.S. I'm not aware of us doing/needing diesel much in that way outside of maybe Alaska. Or people running generators when the power goes out after a storm.

Hell, my wife drives a diesel X5. But she could just as easily trade it in and get a non-diesel model. It's not a big deal.

[Barkworm]

Wait, your assumption is that we use Diesel to power stuff apart from cars? Really? You should have highlighted the part about not having any facts.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Iran has agreed to never close the Strait of Hormuz again. It will no longer be used as a weapon against the World! President DONALD J. TRUMP

Strait of Hormuz closed again.

Another 4D Chess Trump victory.

[Autbot_Benz]

Strait of Hormuz closed again.

Another 4D Chess Trump victory.

Trump said today that the key Strait of Hormuz was reopened but that the blockade will remain in place. Iran’s speaker of parliament said today that the strait will not remain open if the blockade persists.

Good job there Donny

[FredWolfLeonardo]

So Iran declines to show up in Pakistan for talks, and now Trump has extended the ceasefire indefinetly lol.

But the next big & scary deadline will be THE REAL ONE! THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS MATTER!

[member_removed]

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/5840253-protesters-occupy-capitol-building/

Well, that's how you Legitimately protest in the capital.

[Andrew NDB]

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/5840253-protesters-occupy-capitol-building/

Well, that's how you Legitimately protest in the capital.

By "honoring" dead IRGC? Or maybe they mean the 30,000+ Iranians murdered and executed by them?

[member_removed]

By "honoring" dead IRGC? Or maybe they mean the 30,000+ Iranians murdered and executed by them?

Yes, because those 156 schoolgirls who died at the Minab school were all card-carrying members of the IRGC. The Tomahawk missiles landed just as the bell rang for "cutting the heads off babies" class.

Wow, you got me dude. Now go and burn your copy of TMNT Adventures #35 before I declare a jihad!

[FredWolfLeonardo]

By "honoring" dead IRGC? Or maybe they mean the 30,000+ Iranians murdered and executed by them?

Just like in the days of the Second World War, a regime's atrocities are being used to justify Foreign Intervention.

Those tactics no longer work.

[member_removed]

By "honoring" dead IRGC? Or maybe they mean the 30,000+ Iranians murdered and executed by them?

Just like in the days of the Second World War, a regime's atrocities are being used to justify Foreign Intervention.

Those tactics no longer work.

To imply that this US's military engagements in the Gulf are about freeing the Iranian people is just Andrew being intellectually dishonest. It's about oil, always has been.

I don't see him (or any other MAGA/America First types) speaking up for similar actions in other countries with a history of human rights atrocities.
But if there is oil and a lack of nukes

Oil - Nukes = hypocrisy.

[ToTheNines]

To imply that this US's military engagements in the Gulf are about freeing the Iranian people is just Andrew being intellectually dishonest. It's about oil, always has been.

I don't see him (or any other MAGA/America First types) speaking up for similar actions in other countries with a history of human rights atrocities.
But if there is oil and a lack of nukes

Oil - Nukes = hypocrisy.

Yeah, I mean there’s a staggering amount of human rights crises all over the globe. But the World Police only care to step in when there’s oil involved.

[Barkworm]

Apart from the idea of a world police becoming more and ludicrous, MAGA followers pretending to be interested in other countries‘ problems is especially dishonest.

[Andrew NDB]

Wait, your assumption is that we use Diesel to power stuff apart from cars? Really?

Wait, so the ONLY reason your country was continuing to accept tons of oil from Russia (which they claimed to be super against) from large portions of the start of the Ukraine war and even after was just for... their cars?

As I said, I didn't have all the facts there but that seems even more ludicrous than what I was imagining with only a baseline. Forget what I said.

Apart from the idea of a world police becoming more and ludicrous, MAGA followers pretending to be interested in other countries‘ problems is especially dishonest.

The "world police" has always sounded stupid to me since I was a kid. But mutually beneficial outcomes (if we're talking about freeing a people largely restrained and executed by people that make their women cover up at the threat of death and throw gays from rooftops on a lark regularly, because we are) that simultaneously protect us from being bombed out because we're "Big Satan" and benefit the future of other countries seems like a win.

Though I'll admit, I'm a little out of sorts about some of these outcomes. We hit Iran hard and now... we're negotiating with very different parts of it, after? I'm certain there is very weird, very conflicting "diplomacy" going on here behind the scenes which would probably boggle anyone's mind. But I'm still a bit confused at stories arising about, "Iran just hit another ship crossing the strait!" What? We didn't have eyes on that? Why wasn't whatever source that was that hit hard right afterward?

[Barkworm]

Forget what I said.

Honestly, I never do. The falsehoods you often post are just that memorable.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

protect us from being bombed out because we're "Big Satan"

Big Satan is targeted at ZOG, not the regular American people.

America getting nuked by Iran is a pure fantasy.

[ToTheNines]

Apart from the idea of a world police becoming more and ludicrous, MAGA followers pretending to be interested in other countries‘ problems is especially dishonest.

Yeah it's hilarious. They're all "f*ck your feelings!", "suicidal empathy!" and "the government can't do everything for you!"

But as soon as the propaganda hits, they bust out "won't someone pwease fink of da poor widdle opwessed bwown people overseas?"

The "world police" has always sounded stupid to me since I was a kid.

So what's your take on "Operation Iraqi Freedom"?

[sdp]

Warmongering never ceases to amaze me but in this case I do think only the most hardcore MAGA crowd are ok with it. It seems to have split their base.

[Prowler]

I still don't understand what "suicidal empathy" is. I've literally never heard of that term outside of this place so far.

[Andrew NDB]

I still don't understand what "suicidal empathy" is.

"Suicidal empathy" is a term used to describe excessive, unconstrained compassion that prioritizes the welfare of others to the point of causing self-destruction or eroding one's own safety, culture, or society. It is often described as irrational empathy that overrides long-term survival, safety, or rational decision-making, frequently appearing in political, social, and cultural contexts.

Examples of it could be allowing tons of "Refugees" by the millions into your own country at a detriment to the culture and even safety of it, because, you know, "those poor refugees! We need to help them!" Even if they don't really assimilate into your society at all and just get on assistance.

Or allowing homeless to build massive tent cities all over playgrounds and residential streets shooting up drugs and robbing from people's yards because "those poor homeless! We need to be compassionate!"

There's dozens of examples I can give but things like that. Generally it stems from a place of guilt. That either one's imagined privilege means that they owe it to "the little people" to help them out, no matter what. But it can also stem from a place of just wanting to destroy systems and tear them down because the patriarchy/[insert current cause]. i.e., whatever helps destroy the current systems is a necessary evil because the systems themselves are somehow evil/racist/fascist/fill-in-the-blank and deserve to be destroyed, and whatever could replace them could only be a step in the right direction.

So what's your take on "Operation Iraqi Freedom"?

Well, my wife was there in it fighting. Even killed a guy that tried to suicide bomb her camp one night. So I don't know, probably like her I feel it was misguided. In retrospect we didn't have enough cause to go in... but we did and what's done is done.

[ToTheNines]

Damn, Andrew. That’s crazy. Don’t mess with Mrs. Modeen lol

Warmongering never ceases to amaze me but in this case I do think only the most hardcore MAGA crowd are ok with it. It seems to have split their base.

I mean, here’s Trump in 2016 in a legendary rant:

H4ThZcq1oJQ?si=5YWvu3e7v0iUU4Gx

THAT’S what got him elected. I wonder what changed?

[Barkworm]

You ask that as if there has ever been any authentic ideology behind anything Trump has ever said.

[Prowler]

You ask that as if there has ever been any authentic ideology behind anything Trump has ever said.

Which is why I'm confused about Trump supporters. What do they even believe in?

[Mayhem]

Which is why I'm confused about Trump supporters. What do they even believe in?
Whatever the last thing he rambled on about.

[member_removed]

Which is why I'm confused about Trump supporters. What do they even believe in?

Certainly not climate change.

[Barkworm]

US war in Iran has cost $25 billion so far, says Pentagon official. (https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-war-iran-has-cost-25-billion-so-far-says-pentagon-official-2026-04-29/)

[FredWolfLeonardo]

US war in Iran has cost $25 billion so far, says Pentagon official. (https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-war-iran-has-cost-25-billion-so-far-says-pentagon-official-2026-04-29/)

What a waste.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Trump to withdraw 5,000 American troops from Germany after Merz criticises Iran war.

What do you think of this, Barkworm? As crazy as Trump is, I'm all for American troops gettng out of Germany.

I hope we can look forward to a time when the post-ww2 American stronghold over Europe comes to an end.

[Andrew NDB]

I hope we can look forward to a time when the post-ww2 American stronghold over Europe comes to an end.

Stronghold, is that the word we're using for that?

[Barkworm]

Trump to withdraw 5,000 American troops from Germany after Merz criticises Iran war.

What do you think of this, Barkworm? As crazy as Trump is, I'm all for American troops gettng out of Germany.

I think I‘ve said this before, I‘m all for Europe becoming less dependent. This is a good step but there‘s a long way to go.

[Mayhem]

It also means if the US completely withdraws etc re NATO etc, they won’t be able to fly missions to the middle east from Europe and will have to found bases elsewhere. Like Israel itself.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I've read that the U.S. is looking to withdraw from NATO because not only are many European countries becoming less friendly towards Israel, but Israel has its sights set upon Turkey as the next major enemy after Iran.

Since Turkey is a NATO member, Israel wouldn't have much luck getting the U.S. to attack them, so it makes sense to encourage them to leave NATO first before the inevitable showdown.

[Andrew NDB]

Did anyone notice Iran threatening today that they will "continue" working toward a nuclear weapon as long as the US and Israel have them? The operative word there is "continue." As in, they were already doing that and them doing so was not a conspiracy.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Did anyone notice Iran threatening today that they will "continue" working toward a nuclear weapon as long as the US and Israel have them? The operative word there is "continue." As in, they were already doing that and them doing so was not a conspiracy.

Are you happy with the war's progress?

[Mayhem]

You can continue if you had something, now have nothing, and are still going.

Hard to say here. Despite Trump saying he's stopped Iran five times now from being able to make one.

[Andrew NDB]

Are you happy with the war's progress?

Huh? What war?

[ToTheNines]

Did anyone notice Iran threatening today that they will "continue" working toward a nuclear weapon as long as the US and Israel have them? The operative word there is "continue." As in, they were already doing that and them doing so was not a conspiracy.

I didn’t know anyone was disputing this.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Huh? What war?

The war which Trump says he has won like 50 times.

Yet, the Regime is still intact and the Hormuz strait is still closed.

[Andrew NDB]

I didn’t know anyone was disputing this.

I've seen pretty regularly people going like, "Israel/Trump SAYS they were developing a nuke, but Iran was in a deal where they couldn't develop one! We should have trusted them! It's Israel planting lies in Trump's ear," etc., etc..

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I've seen pretty regularly people going like, "Israel/Trump SAYS they were developing a nuke, but Iran was in a deal where they couldn't develop one! We should have trusted them! It's Israel planting lies in Trump's ear," etc., etc..

It's not so much that people trust Iran as much as it is that most of the world doesn't trust USA and Israel anymore.

Trump is also not some gullible fool who was duped by Israel, he 100% knows what he is doing, and most of the American public see that. The Midterms and 2028 are gonna be a disaster for the Republicians.