The Conflict between the West and Middle East

[Anarky]

Well, this is the first attempt to create a discussion that might scratch on a political surface here. It actually might turn into a political discussion. So: DON'T MESS THIS UP, THIS IS THE FIRST AND ONLY CHANCE

Good, here's what it's all about. Yesterday the media in Germany started with their usual "Everybody panic!"-news coverage, because the Iranian Government said something not very nice to the US, it actually warned the US not to attack them, they'll lose.

This phenomenon is known as "Säbelrasseln" here. That term basically means that both nations try to impress each other.

My question now: What does your media tell you about this situation?

[That Matt Guy]

I haven't heard one thing about it.

[damnhooligan]

This is the first I've heard of it, and I've been watching the Pentagon Channel all day. I think, as Americans, we're just used to so many threats that after a while, they just don't have the impact they used to. Perhaps a case of crying "Wolf!"

[Anarky]

Well, either it's really a "Wolf!"-case, or, what just occured to me, the US-media wants this information to be kept secret. Although I really doubt that.

DH, you get German Television, right? Check RTL Teletext page 120. It's about all that has been leaking through. At least that's all I know of. (well, that plus that huge "OMG The US is going to conquer our planet and Bush is satan and only listens to his dad"-scare at another forum I tend to hang out)

[damnhooligan]

I get German cable, but my TV's NTSC so I can't pick up those PAL channels. But I haven't heard anything on CNN World and Five News both based in the UK either.

[Anarky]

Hmm, odd. I might really put research into that. See, I've been watching CNN for a short time today, I thought maybe I missed it, but apparently I didn't.

Well, for all those who speak German, here you'll find a pretty detailed article about what Germany is currently worrying about.

Maybe it's not important enough for US-media... that really is an odd phenomenon. I though, you as the US-people, should know more about this.

[Barkworm]

Now that's really interesting since the German media made it look like the US is definitely going to bomb Iran soon.

[That Matt Guy]

US government keeping THIS secret? Get real Anarky, if Germany is blabbing about it all over Europe then there is nothing to keep secret. I actually did read an article about this today and I don't see what the big deal is. Bush said he "wouldn't rule out the use of force" if Iran doesn't totally remove it's nukes and nuclear programs. What's wrong with that? It wasn't even a threat, he just claimed that force might be needed if Iran doesn't agree. Why did the German media go ape **** about this?

[Anarky]

German Media has had this anti-american position since the big scandal when GWB first was elected. Everything is good to them, as long as it makes people hate the US more. But, the irony, in the mid 90ies Germany was so blatantly pro-US, it was almost disgusting. Now they changed the view. And the funniest part: all these kids out there think they're major experts when it comes to being anti-american after watching the news once a week and having seen Fahrenheit 9/11.

[Barkworm]

I recently read that a huge majority of Germans hate Bush. When they were asked why, most of them couldn't even give an answer.

[Anarky]

Originally Posted by Barkworm

I recently read that a huge majority of Germans hate Bush. When they were asked why, most of them couldn't even give an answer.

Suitable answers would be:

Adults:
"TV told us so"
"But I read that he is a bad guy"

Children:
"He is stupid"
"He is a warlord"
"TV told me so"

God, I hate those anti-americans. I can't agree with the government (can I even agree with a government?) but the US itself is a great country.

What I hate most is the fact that they call every single american stupid. Hey, I know a lot of americans and they are nowhere near stupid.

[Machias Banshee]

A lot of people go by stereotypes, which is one big problem. I wonder why Germany turned a 180..?

But yeah, I haven't heard anything about this either. I'm sure the extremists up here on campus will just Love this..

[Jamezer]

i havent heard anything about it, but i seriously doubt that we will attack iran. we have enuff on our plate with iraq, also i dont think that bush wants anymore bad press, so unless there is a good reason i dont think it will happen.

[Voltron]

I think Germany is pissed because we took out Saddam. With no Saddam, Germany doesn't cash in on the oil deal they had.

As for the problem of Iran and America: I doubt Bush can afford another Iraq. Sure, it's well and good that Saddam was taken out of power; but we're shelling out a pretty penny to do it. Americans probably wouldn't tolerate another war. (Unless it's those goofy ones who think Bush is the Second Coming)

On a personal note, some my friends went off to war and a few came back pretty roughed up. One lost his eye after getting nailed with some shrapnel. I don't want to see anyone else go over there to get injured or worse for now debunked causes.

[That Matt Guy]

One of my good friends from high school joined the Army soon after we all graduated. It was actually a decent thing for him to do, since he was a major pot head and was trying to turn his life around. He thought the military was a good place to start. He went through basic and was shipped out at the start of Operation Iraqi Freedom. He spent several months in Iraq, and came back a different person... he now spends his time in a local mental hospital, wrapped in a straight jacket. No joke.

I also heard he was writing death threats to his captain and fellow soldiers.

[Machias Banshee]

My brother is over there, along with a bunch of people I knew from High School. The stories I hear about how traumatized people get from warfare is... the stuff they go through could never be made up. Tim O'brien wrote a book about what he and his troop went through in Vietnam.

Its hard to see this happening to people we know... we havent seen or been part of a legitimate war in a long time. We had an entire generation grow up without experiencing a true 'homefront'.


It worries me how my brother will be once he comes back. But then, I havent talked to him in a decade... *sigh*

[damnhooligan]

I attend a local PTSD support group at the military hospital across the street from me, and most of the people are there because of battle related trauma. Some of the stories I hear are absolutely heart-wrenching, and make me tear up right now just thinking about it. Some of them may have to deal with PTSD for a few years, others, for their whole lives. But none of them ever forget what happened.

Yes, they all come back a little different, a little jaded and distant, but I honestly would be alarmed if they didn't. Even just residing in a combat zone is a harrowing experience.

[Anarky]

One of my best friends had his "Rekrutenschule" last year. That something like a boot camp. You learn discipline and order. For that your will is sort of broken. You get something like a diet-brainwashing. Anyways, not everyone takes it as good as they could, so there was this one guy in my buddy's unit who went nuts after 16 weeks, he scratched his arms and face open and threatened to kill people including himself. He was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia.

Bak to the subject: I am currently discussing with some kid that thinks that World War 3 is going to start tomorrow or something. She claims that she herself isn't a victim of the media, but hey, she uses words and idioms like "the glorious western world" and "preachers of hate"... I wonder where she got thoes.

People can be so stupid.

[Voltron]

World War 3 is a possibility at the moment, Anarky. If the North Korean situation heats up we may be staring the Apocolypse right in the face.

As for soldiers, my family is divided into the WWII group and the Vietnam group. My Uncle (Bless his soul) was through some real hard ****. He had to search for land mines with a metal detector. He told me this story that once he was doing it, and one of the men in his troop stepped on one that he didn't find. The guy's leg was blown off.

My father's friend was on his way home from Vietnam when he got shot in the head. It was his last day of his tour. Another one of my father's friends did three tours of Vietnam just to get his fill of fighting.

Most of the WWII soldiers have passed on. My grandfather never saw action (my grandmother insisted the Japanese were afraid of him.)

It's remarkable to hear the stories of soldiers who have been through war. I have the deepest respect for these guys. My uncle, especially-he still walks the beach with a metal detector.

[cqb101]

I can see this thread getting ugly, fast. I'd love to have a civilized discussion on this, tho.